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Got me, should have said "pocket QB", because that's what Weeden is and always will be...but I think 21TD/17INT is within what is possible with him imho, though on the "positive side"...I posted my numbers prediction on Weeden elsewhere
We'll find out soon enough
#gmstrong
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That would be a massively successful rookie season, on par with what Bradford did two years ago. You may call those numbers being on the "positive side" I might call that "wildly optimistic" 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Toad, I missed it, but why are you so down on Weeden?
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Newton 4000 yds, 21 tds, 17 ints
Dalton 3400 yds, 20 tds, 13 ints
Bradford 3500 yds, 18 tds, 15 ints
Sanchez 2400 yds, 12 tds, 20 ints (15 Games)
Ryan 3400 yds, 16 tds, 11 ints
Flacco 2900 yds, 14 tds, 12 ints
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
That would be a massively successful rookie season, on par with what Bradford did two years ago. You may call those numbers being on the "positive side" I might call that "wildly optimistic"
to play devil's advocate:
Bradford was a spread-offense QB from a BigXII school in the Sooner state that was drafted to a team with depleted WR corps and had our very own Pat Shurmur directing the offense with a good multi-purpose RB.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
That would be a massively successful rookie season, on par with what Bradford did two years ago. You may call those numbers being on the "positive side" I might call that "wildly optimistic"
to play devil's advocate:
Bradford was a spread-offense QB from a BigXII school in the Sooner state that was drafted to a team with depleted WR corps and had our very own Pat Shurmur directing the offense with a good multi-purpose RB.
To build on that...
We currently (IMO) Have a better WR Corps, Online, and possibly even RB (Jackson is wearing down) than STL did in Bradford's rookie year...
And probably a better defense too... Just cause..
REBUTTAL: We don't get to play the NFC West twice a year. (And the 2010 NFC West was HORRIBLE)
Last edited by OSGuy; 05/15/12 12:08 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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All Pro
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No thank you,appreciate the offer. the fact that he was used more as a blocker at USC than pass catcher should tell you he has a limited upside.
he was barely featured in the Trojans passing game. He played WR his junior year.
Barely saw the field.
In 2011 with the Browns,he barely saw playing time for a team that was out of the playoffs by week 9.
see the common thread?
if Cameron comes out and catches 40-50 passes and 5-7 TDS this year...then I can say I was wrong on the guy. No problem.
But not every ex power foward turns out like Jimmy Graham or Antonio Gates.
when was the last time the Browns drafted a guy in the 4th RD on who turned out to be anything?
Attaya Rubin?
when the Browns drafted Cameron I bet 95% of Browns fans said.."who"
"they didn't draft Cameron Jordan?"
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I can't remember a top 60 guy that I was more torn on than Weeden.
The guy is a flawless passer with great timing and anticipation. Big kid with a really good arm and he exudes confidence. Over the top throwing motion with a quick release makes his passes hard to knock down and makes him hard to sack.
Then you have:
Shotgun Spread offense
looked klutzy at the senior bowl dropping back
looked like a major klutz dropping and handing it off
28 years old
doesn't throw well under pressure
not very mobile at all
Most guys, I can say with confidence that barring injury he will have success or he is destined for failure. I am clueless on this one. I think he has a strong team around him with what I believe will be a top 5 OL, top 5 RB and a wide receiver corps that is ready to break out with a good passer. So the opportunity is there for quick success if he can learn this offense and master the reads and drops.
I do feel our D will take a step back with Taylor being out with an injury.
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When was the last time we had ANYONE with 5-7 TDs?
Let alone the 3rd string TE?
Come on guy.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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the rebuttal is very valid. that's why I put in the 'devil's advocate' disclaimer
#gmstrong
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so your saying Jordan Cameron can't beat out Ben Watson or Alex Smith ?
If thats the case then you can find a 3rd string TE as a undrafted free agent and not blow a 4th RD pick on him.
you guys crack me..praising Heckert up and down for this "athletic freak" he drafted but don't expect him to score 5 to 7 TDS however.thats asking way too much.
Heckert has a history of reaching on guys in the mid RDs
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Ben Watson was a first round pick who now has 8 years of experience and 2 super bowl rings.. Alex Smith is a 3rd round pick with 7 years of experience... Why should it be a given that a 4th round pick in his first or second year should be that much better than those two? Quote:
but don't expect him to score 5 to 7 TDS however.thats asking way too much.
On a team that had 16 TOTAL touchdown passes last year? Let's see how the offense as a whole looks and judge the kids performance accordingly... k?
I'm not praising anybody up and down for the pick but sheeesh, let it play out for a while before you start calling the kid a total bust..
yebat' Putin
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I view Jordan Cameron as Evan Moore insurance. Moore is our pure pass-catching TE. If he is hurt or continues to struggle to block, then Jordan will get a chance.
Alex Smith is a pure-blocking TE whom I won't expect to be involved much in the passing game.
Ben Watson, when healthy, is a very good starting TE. hopefully, he can stay healthy for us.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
That would be a massively successful rookie season, on par with what Bradford did two years ago. You may call those numbers being on the "positive side" I might call that "wildly optimistic"
to play devil's advocate:
Bradford was a spread-offense QB from a BigXII school in the Sooner state that was drafted to a team with depleted WR corps and had our very own Pat Shurmur directing the offense with a good multi-purpose RB.
I know where you're going dOOder, and in terms of an overall discussion it's at least worth talking about. I've never stated spread QB's can't make it, and in fact I was sacrificing chickens in my backyard trying to talk the Gods into giving the Browns Bradford.  I think discussing the similarities could be a akin to talking about the jockey when it's the horse that's most important. To that end, I'd say Weeden, while gifted, wasn't rated in the same class as Bradford. Those are two very different guys, and with the possible influence of Childress, it may not quite be the same offense.
Rish, About Weeden, you can start with the stock questions about every shotgun-spread college QB and go from there. However, my three key items are as follows:
**He's coming from a super-simple offense and will be asked to run the most complex one in the NFL.
**He's never taken a snap from under center, so not only is he going to have to learn how to read a complex offense and operate against complex NFL defenses never before seen, he's going to have to learn to do it from under center and while in a full-on backpedal. That's only slightly more concerning when you consider he isn't exactly a natural athlete in terms of movement.
**When faced with pressure he was quite content to repeatedly throw the ball up for grabs while leaning backwards on his back foot. Being clutch doesn't always mean making a huge play downfield. It can also mean knowing when to eat the ball or when to throw it away without forcing it.
Ceiling: Carson Palmer
Floor: Derek Anderson
IMHO more Anderson than Palmer.
Note that I didn't even talk about his age. If a guy is good enough the guy is good enough. If you could guarantee me 6-8 years of pro-bowl caliber play from a QB I'd take him #1 even if he was 30 years old. That's actually why I don't believe you absolutely must start Weeden. Put him out there just because he's old? Nevermind the question of whether he'll be ready or not? Really? REALLY?!  The media isn't always right. If Weeden is ready, fine, get him out there. If he can put up a QB rating in the mid-to-high 70's as a rookie considering all the hurdles he'll have to overcome, I'd say that is an acceptable rookie start. If he doesn't look like he can do that in the first few pre-season games, sit his ass on the bench and let him develop. If you force him early just because of his age you can wreck the kid. What freakin' good is a 31 year old guy who has a fractured football psyche?! 
Sorry, on my high-horse about that one. I know Holmgren and Co. are all saying the competition is open, but I'm not sure I believe them. Well, lemme be a lil more accurate...I DON'T believe them, though I want it known I'm not calling them liars. I'm just stating that because they've done the RIGHT thing by lying through their teeth regarding how they've viewed the QB position, I cannot take anything they say at face value.
I just hope they are telling the truth.
Play Weeden only if he's ready. It won't hurt him at all to sit a year and start as a 30-year old, 2nd year player. If he develops into a top-tiered QB by his third year when he's 31, would that be so bad? Hell no it wouldn't.
I don't view Weeden in the same light as I did with Frye and McCoy, as I saw them as very poor gambles who I wouldn't have wasted my time with. There are some things to like about Weeden. He's just got so far to go, and literally not alot of time to get there...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Play Weeden only if he's ready
the one thing he has going for his benefit is that there shouldn't be any holdout shenanigans with the new rookie wage scale. so, we can just have our coaches spend their time with 100% effort getting him ready to become the starter and not worry that he won't show up until mid-August.
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Ha!
I can see Weeden's agent now...
"Listen, Mike...You didn't draft my client to sit and learn. You drafted him to play. If you want him to play, you better meet our demands. If you don't, well, goodluck with McCoy. Call us when you're ready."
We're the Browns...we can find ways to screw up and complicate otherwise simple issues.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Ha!
I can see Weeden's agent now...
"Listen, Mike...You didn't draft my client to sit and learn. You drafted him to play. If you want him to play, you better meet our demands. If you don't, well, goodluck with McCoy. Call us when you're ready."
We're the Browns...we can find ways to screw up and complicate otherwise simple issues.
Honestly,, I know you were joking,, but no way is Weeden dumb enough to play that game.. he's 28 going on 29.. he doesn't have time to spare.. He needs to move it along.. And I'm absolutly sure he knows it and so does his agent.
Our first rounders will be signed by the first week of June.. I can all but guarantee it.
Dumb question,, mostly because I don't want to look it up, But have any 1st rounders signed yet?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yup. At least a couple. Weeden, however, is a QB. They often sign last...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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you better meet our demands
since the salary is pretty much locked in, here is a list of Weeden's demands:
1. unlimited supply of butterscotch candies in the locker room
2. mothballs placed throughout Berea facility to give it that "homey" smell
3. black socks and sandals the standard meeting attire
4. naked pictures of Betty White
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
you better meet our demands
since the salary is pretty much locked in, here is a list of Weeden's demands:
1. unlimited supply of butterscotch candies in the locker room
2. mothballs placed throughout Berea facility to give it that "homey" smell
3. black socks and sandals the standard meeting attire
4. naked pictures of Betty White
5. All 12 seasons of 'Murder, She Wrote' on VHS.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
you better meet our demands
since the salary is pretty much locked in, here is a list of Weeden's demands:
1. unlimited supply of butterscotch candies in the locker room
2. mothballs placed throughout Berea facility to give it that "homey" smell
3. black socks and sandals the standard meeting attire
4. naked pictures of Betty White
5. All 12 seasons of 'Murder, She Wrote' on VHS.
?? VHS tapes won't fit into his Betamax
#gmstrong
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Don't you mean, "Murder, She Caused"?
I mean by the 20th time this woman shows up at a function and a person gets killed, you would think that somebody would start to see that its more than a coincidence.
yebat' Putin
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Jesus...so much BS thrown around here...where to start?  No Kendall, Cameron didn't "barely see the field"...you repeating it doesn't make it a fact. Fact is he was used as a blocker a lot both inline and outside lined up as a WR....they also almost never threw to their TEs, that was either by design or QB preference Weeden: while it's easy to throw the DA comp around for his floor, I think that couldn't be more off...DA had barely over 50% comp in College (!), Weeden was close to 70%....Weeden's accuracy is on another planet Ceiling: Roethlisberger Floor: Nobody The question for me with Weeden is upstairs....if he really wants it, he's another Roethli (good and bad) if not he says goodbye to the league as a millionaire....I just can't come up with a good floor comp since it's hard to find a busted pocket jugs machine with a 70% comp....I really think he will only fail if he isn't committed, mentally not up to it...and after failing as a big pitcher prospect, there's a good chance for that too Coaches are big in this process too...it's Shurmur's hail or fail project as a HC imho, he's obviously VERY excited to coach and develop him
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I just can't come up with a good floor comp since it's hard to find a busted pocket jugs machine with a 70% comp....
Why does his floor have to be a bust?
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Ceiling: Roethlisberger
I hate that you say this because he actually kind of looks like Roethlisberger.
Makes me want to throw up a little. 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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The question for me with Weeden is upstairs....if he really wants it, he's another Roethli (good and bad) if not he says goodbye to the league as a millionaire....I just can't come up with a good floor comp since it's hard to find a busted pocket jugs machine with a 70% comp
Going 100% by what you're saying here, the floor would be Ryan Leaf, because you just described him perfectly.
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Quote:
Quote:
The question for me with Weeden is upstairs....if he really wants it, he's another Roethli (good and bad) if not he says goodbye to the league as a millionaire....I just can't come up with a good floor comp since it's hard to find a busted pocket jugs machine with a 70% comp
Going 100% by what you're saying here, the floor would be Ryan Leaf, because you just described him perfectly.
Eh. Leaf couldn't handle the game on a maturity level.
I think he meant more of the "seeing and being able to process info" type of upstairs..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Jesus...so much BS thrown around here...where to start?
DJ...on this, we agree....
Slow news period where folks have to work really hard to come with something to discuss...we have predictions, proclamations, ultimatums, self promotions, bigtalk, smalltalk...etc.
Things will pick up on Thursday when we have OTAs (Organized Team Activities) starting on May 17, 18 and 19...so there will be media reports and topics for discussion in a day or so.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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That's right...and I thought about Leaf too but he also only had a 55% comp in College
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I think my head just exploded.... Comparisons to Leaf are totally uncalled for... Can we shut down the forum, people have too much time on their hands and are turning into idiots, if they were not already there....
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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" He's never taken a snap from under center, so not only is he going to have to learn how to read a complex offense and operate against complex NFL defenses never before seen, he's going to have to learn to do it from under center and while in a full-on backpedal."
And I couldn't ride a bike without training wheels till my dad took them off and made me learn. A week later I was doing donuts in the yard. I couldn't fly a plane by myself till my instructor hopped out and told me to go do a couple patterns around the airport. And I didn't know how to flat spin a J3 Cub till I was told to put it in a stall and hit full rudder....
The point IS.. This ain't rocket science and he HAS taken snaps from center. The week of the Senior Bowl, the game itself, hundreds of practice's since then, and every snap in Rookie camp.
I have a feeling he just might figure it out...
"Just gotta Coach em up" , "I thought they Battled" , " I need to watch the tape"
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Quote:
Quote:
you better meet our demands
since the salary is pretty much locked in, here is a list of Weeden's demands:
1. unlimited supply of butterscotch candies in the locker room
2. mothballs placed throughout Berea facility to give it that "homey" smell
3. black socks and sandals the standard meeting attire
4. naked pictures of Betty White
Betty White is fine looking woman. 
Ok, she is old, but still, if you had to do a 80 something year old, she is as good as it gets.
Ease up on Betty. I like her.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Ok, she is old, but still, if you had to do a 80 something year old, she is as good as it gets.
That has the be the weirdest post of all time on DTers... wow.... 
<><
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I was not inferring anything negative about Betty White.
she is the pinup girl for the 75yo+, so she fit the joke about Weeden perfectly. that is all.
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 Now we have gone too far.....
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Charger, I don't know how you're going to feel about this...but I believe that's my grandmother...which means I sure hope you didn't have any "private time" with that picture before you posted it...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Cant.. Tell.. If.. Be.. Sarcastic..!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Charger, I don't know how you're going to feel about this...but I believe that's my grandmother...which means I sure hope you didn't have any "private time" with that picture before you posted it...
Congratulations, and I hope you made it to the inheritance list.... and no worries about the private time... can't really remember when a magazine was a focal point, the real thing is much more interactive..... 
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Weeden think he'll be ready to
start right away
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