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That's a lot of ifs,, but, I'll say this, If Colt competes and looses and throws a hissy fit in the locker room,,, they'll take box of unsalted peanuts for him.
But unless I miss my guess.. Colt will be a good soldier, do his job, keep his trap shut, and be ready when or if called upon.
I do too IF they at least give him somewhat of a fair shot to compete as they promised they would. If not it shows every player on our roster a signal of pure deciet between the FO and the players. Not something I would want to do if I were H&H. Just not good for business as a whole IMO
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They probably also told Hardesty that he could, and should compete for the RB spot ..... and told Cousins that he could, and should, compete for the RT spot ......
They want everyone competing all the time ..... even if they already know who the starters will be.
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That makes things very simple then. Since you already know who the starter will be, there's no big hurry to "announce it" just to appease the fan base and cause conflict among players or a bad situation in the locker room. Problem solved! 
Last edited by PitDAWG; 05/25/12 04:29 PM.
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j/c..
I mean how chipper do you want a guy to be now that he's on the other end of the spectrum, and someone is about to take his job..
I think he said the right things in his presser. I still can't believe someone had the nerve to ask him about Heckert's quote.
I couldn't care less about how chipper he is, I only care whether or not he is approaching it like a professional and leaving his feelings out of his actions and performance.
As long as he's a pro, then he's of value to us and there is no reason at all to show him the door.
If he's a child and makes noise, then trade him or cut him loose.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I just assume were not going to hear any "I like Brandon and all, But I really liked the way the way Colt used to shot put the ball down the field..."
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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That's a lot of ifs,,
This whole thread has turned into nothing more than speculation about things that haven't happened and likely won't.
Colt has to know that if he demands a trade there aren't any teams out there clamoring for him as their starter at this point.. and if he doesn't know it, his agent needs to tell him that... and perhaps somebody needs to tell his dad that too, don't know.
The best thing Colt could do for his own career is to take a step back, embrace the back-up role, work his butt off in practice to improve himself, and wait.... at some point in the next year or two, Weeden is going to go down for a couple games, hopefully the offense is operating at a higher clip than it has in a long time and Colt can come in and have a couple very nice games in relief and elevate his stock... get people thinking, you know, maybe it did have a lot to do with the players around him... then he could be of much greater trade value...
At this point, cutting him would be assinine and trading him for a 7th rounder would be just as bad... until this becomes a problem, it's not a problem..
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And the way this entire thing is handled by the FO may very well dictate wheather it does or does not become a problem IMO
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Whether the front office promised McCoy a competition or not, I'm pretty sure they did make those comments in public, I'm also pretty much sure that McCoy should have felt like he still had the opportunity to try to win the job.. beyond that it is going to be his interpretation of whether or not he was given a fair shot
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I believe you are right. Which is why I say it's too soon at this juncture to make that call. Some seem to feel the call needs to be made "now".
I certainly don't feel anyone, McCoy nor the fans, could possibly imagine, that at this point in time, that he's had any chance to compete for the QB position.
I don't think it should be dragged out over a long period of time. But training camp, heck, even mini camps haven't even began yet and some are wanting the FO to make the call now.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I agree... I hope one of two things happens.. optimally I hope that McCoy gives Weeden a run for his money for the job because Colt has upped his game and because a lot of it had to do with other factors, like no offseason last year... and if I can't have that, I hope Weeden just looks so darn good that even Colt can't complain... What I don't want, is to be yet again debating between 2 mediocre to submediocre QBs... 
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That's a lot of ifs,, but, I'll say this, If Colt competes and looses and throws a hissy fit in the locker room,,, they'll take box of unsalted peanuts for him.
But unless I miss my guess.. Colt will be a good soldier, do his job, keep his trap shut, and be ready when or if called upon.
I do too IF they at least give him somewhat of a fair shot to compete as they promised they would. If not it shows every player on our roster a signal of pure deciet between the FO and the players. Not something I would want to do if I were H&H. Just not good for business as a whole IMO
I can 100% agree with.that.
if this FO announces today that the competition between Colt and Weeden is over and weeden won, everyone,, Players, Fans, Media,, everyone will know that the whole "everyone needs to compete" for a job was a lie.
That won't sit well with the players..
No need to rush it,, we haven't even gotten to camp yet.
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my bet would be after the first preseason game. give Colt the first one as a nod to his time starting the past year and a half and move on from there.
No way.
From Day 1 of Training Camp, Weeden should be the confirmed starter. This offense and team can't afford to play "fair" with McCoy and allow him to take reps or even a pre-season game away from Weeden. Sorry but that's the brutal truth and McCoy's ship as a starter has sailed here. I think he played well at times but I think he played pretty poor at times during his couple years here and I supported him through all of it but the fact is that the Browns felt their QB situation was bad enough to draft Weeden at 22 when Wright was gone.
The NFL and the Cleveland Browns are still a business when you get down to it. Heckert and Shurmur are management positions in this business and if they don't want to get fired early then they better not trot McCoy out there for one pre-season game simply because he's been here two years. I mean other than win a handful of games, what else has he done to deserve something like this that takes reps away from the guy we all know is the starter already?
What if the plan is to start Colt in the 1st preseason game then when the other team takes their starters out we put in Weeden, keeping our starters in. Goal is to get the rookie out there with a competitive advantage vs the defense (our #1s vs the 2nd string D) so that he can get his feet wet in the NFL and boost his confidence in the process (or at least not damage it).
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my bet would be after the first preseason game. give Colt the first one as a nod to his time starting the past year and a half and move on from there.
No way.
From Day 1 of Training Camp, Weeden should be the confirmed starter. This offense and team can't afford to play "fair" with McCoy and allow him to take reps or even a pre-season game away from Weeden. Sorry but that's the brutal truth and McCoy's ship as a starter has sailed here. I think he played well at times but I think he played pretty poor at times during his couple years here and I supported him through all of it but the fact is that the Browns felt their QB situation was bad enough to draft Weeden at 22 when Wright was gone.
The NFL and the Cleveland Browns are still a business when you get down to it. Heckert and Shurmur are management positions in this business and if they don't want to get fired early then they better not trot McCoy out there for one pre-season game simply because he's been here two years. I mean other than win a handful of games, what else has he done to deserve something like this that takes reps away from the guy we all know is the starter already?
WAY! the plan should be to start the best players. Shouldn't be anything else to it. If Weeden is the man, then weeden starts.. As simple as that. but gotta give them both a shot or the FO will be called a pack of liars...
PS: I do believe weeden will win the job
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Blah, Blah, Blah, Cry me a river.. Of course they tell players they are competing, and it's NOT a lie when its pre-determined who the starter will be. Life is a competition guys, if not against one guy then it's against another. Thats how you get better.
Do you expect last years RB or RT guys to throw their helmets and cry to mommy since we felt they needed "upgraded" and expect to replace them ? They had their chances already and FAILED. End of story. Life sucks and then you die. Next....
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You have a fault in your thinking Quote:
and it's NOT a lie when its pre-determined who the starter will be.
It's a lie if you call it a competition and then don't let them compete..
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They said there would be a competition. I never heard anyone say that it would be a fail competition. Nothing wrong with that. If you think one guy has more talent then you give him optimal opportunity to win the job. If the other guy wins then he wins. They don't need to count the number of reps with the 1st team.
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Does anyone actually think that ANYONE in the Browns, (FO, Coaches, and Players) actually thinks this is a "Competition" ?
Seriously? Are we arguing about semantics here?
I'm pretty sure Colt understands what's going on.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Semantics... I don't think semantics are playing a role here. I believe there's flawed perceptions about what is really going on. The great irony to me is that in this rather rare instance the front office is being dead-honest, yet there are fans who aren't getting it.
Fact: Weeden is a 1st round pick. That means it's his job to lose.
So what does that mean to each guy?
Weeden: unless he looks totally and completely lost he gets the nod. He's a rookie so its expected...and totally acceptable...that he may not look as polished as the veteran he's been drafted to replace, but that won't preclude him from getting the starts.
McCoy: he's had his chance and failed to impress. A guy has been drafted with the sole intent of replacing him. McCoy must look really polished and refined while Weeden must simultaneously look totally inept and/or lost in order for Colt to get the starts.
Now is that a competiton? Absolutely. It is. The only real question, which is open to individual interpretation, is whether or not that is fair. Of course that doesn't matter one iota because the word "fair" does not...and should not...play a role in this as perceived by the fans.
Rule #1 of the Universe: Life isn't fair. Colt got his shot and failed. Weeden has a weighted opportunity to take the job which he's been annointed to have, but McCoy still has a chance to get the job back.
That's the very best Colt could ask for in this situation, and I don't see where there's any room for confusion here.
Ya know...after a moments reflection... I should substitute the word "veteran" for every instance where "colt" or "mccoy" is used because Wallace had every chance to win the job and failed as well. Furthermore, there's no guarantee Colt remains on thee team. Regardless, Tue front office has been rather factual with how they've characterized the situation.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'll be honest, Green Bay had about a dozen 4th rounders and I'm surprised we didn't pick up at least one of them for Colt on Day 3...
I'm also surprised we still have both Colt and Wallace.
I honestly just don't like Wallace, never really liked him as a player, dislike him as a person as of last year.
Have we had only one QB take EVERY snap since we came back? That would be nice...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Maybe Green Bay didn't want McCoy. (and this is not a slam on McCoy, or any kind of estimation of his abilities or anything else in that vein)
A 4th round pick would be a HUGE premium to pay for a backup QB who will almost certainly see the field on only the rarest of occasions. Matt Flynn played twice in 5 years. Rodgers probably has another 8-10 years in him.
What's the incentive for Green Bay to give up a high pick? (or even a middle round pick)
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I was just refering to the huge rumor/report after day one that we were talking to them after Flynn left for Seattle.
And they had 3 4ths...
That's about it...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Colt is a veteran, he better look better than Weeden. If he doesn't look better than a rookie, he needs to be cut.
Weeden is the starter. We drafted him for that reason. We saw Colt and realized we had to upgrade.
All Weeden has to do is show he has better tools with which to work and he will be the guy we go with moving forward......and here is a clue, he's alrady done that.
Competition over. The real competition to be watched is between Wallace and Colt. Whichever one of those guys who looks best will be the back-up.
I think he loses that as well, so for that reason I'd just cut the guy if I couldn't trade him for some conditional 7th rounder that could turn in to nothing or turn in to a 5th rounder depending on how things go.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Blah, Blah, Blah, Cry me a river.. Of course they tell players they are competing, and it's NOT a lie when its pre-determined who the starter will be. Life is a competition guys, if not against one guy then it's against another. Thats how you get better.
That's a bunch of double talk. Have you ever considered running for congress?
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Ya know...after a moments reflection... I should substitute the word "veteran" for every instance where "colt" or "mccoy" is used because Wallace had every chance to win the job and failed as well. Furthermore, there's no guarantee Colt remains on thee team. Regardless, Tue front office has been rather factual with how they've characterized the situation.
And that's what Colt should have as well. If the FO didn't plan to do that, they should have kept their mouths shut!
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I don't think anyone questions that Weeden was drafted to be the starter. that had to be the plan otherwise, why do it.
But you are right, Colt should look smoother and more equipped mentally to run the Offense when camp opens. How Weeden wins is by his apparent greater physical attributes. (accuracy, arm strength etc)
What I don't want to see, but I know I will, is the fan base jumping all over Weeden for rookie mistakes.. He's gonna make them... let me repeat that,, HE'S GONNA MAKE THEM.
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It's a bi-product of the microwave generation. You know.....perfect popcorn in three minutes or less.
Sad really......
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It's a bi-product of the microwave generation. You know.....perfect popcorn in three minutes or less.
Sad really......
Yup,, very sad
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Colt McCoy is in a no win situation right now. He can came out in the preseason and just tear it up...QB rating over 100, a couple TDS ,no INTS vs 1st team defenses.
Weeden could pull off a 65 rating, 1 TD and 5 INTS and come week 1 vs Philly he's the starter.
the only McCoy starts is if Weeden suffers a injury.
I wonder if McCoy was the victim of a franchise that has a history of impatience with QBs.
McCoy wasn't even supposed to start his rookie year.
I would give McCoy a incomplete grade. I didn't see enough in 20 starts.
Weeden will be given minimum 3 years under center.
Weeden is coming into a offense with pieces parts that McCoy never had.
A legit RT, a elite RB,a WR that caught over 60 passes,a legit offensive coordinator.
If I were the Browns I would bring in McNabb to help accelerate Weedens growth.
what can McCoy teach Weeden? to the Browns FO he's not even good enough to start.
Yep Weeden's a rookie...he's gonna see more coverages vs Philly then he saw his whole senior season.
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Colt McCoy is in a no win situation right now. He can came out in the preseason and just tear it up...QB rating over 100, a couple TDS ,no INTS vs 1st team defenses.
Weeden could pull off a 65 rating, 1 TD and 5 INTS and come week 1 vs Philly he's the starter.
I seriously doubt that's true.. If Colt looked that good and Weeden looked that bad, they'd start colt. now that doesn't mean that they would stick with Colt. If he begins to falter anything could happen.
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I wonder if McCoy was the victim of a franchise that has a history of impatience with QBs.
Perhaps that coupled with his weakness being exposed and receivers dropping the ball and the RT not being that great and virtually no running game most of the year... Oh, and the fans impatience as well.
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If I were the Browns I would bring in McNabb to help accelerate Weedens growth.
McNabb is done.. waste of money and a roster spot..
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I wonder how Weeden would have done if he was on that 2011 team?
Holmgren and Heckert did not attempt to put the best team around McCoy in 2011.
maybe they figured if we surround a mid RD 3rd pick,with players that are void of good to great talent then the results will speak for themselves. They would be a in a position to draft a QB in the 1st RD in 2012.
Its evident Holmgren and Heckert were not trying to win in 2011.
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well, you clearly have some kinda hate thing going on with Heckert and Holmgren so trying to tell you that you aren't realistic, is a waste of time.
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I wonder how Weeden would have done if he was on that 2011 team?
Holmgren and Heckert did not attempt to put the best team around McCoy in 2011.
maybe they figured if we surround a mid RD 3rd pick,with players that are void of good to great talent then the results will speak for themselves. They would be a in a position to draft a QB in the 1st RD in 2012.
Its evident Holmgren and Heckert were not trying to win in 2011.
As colt mccoy would say.. we aren't gonna worry about the hypotheticals.. 
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its not a hate thing..but you wonder if they were really trying to win in 2011. and I'm sure I'm not the only one to think this?
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its not a hate thing..but you wonder if they were really trying to win in 2011. and I'm sure I'm not the only one to think this?
I think they decided when they got here that what they needed to do was to strip things down, rebuild using mostly the draft to get the core player on which to build and I think that during that process, we just didn't win.
I doubt it was in an effort NOT to win. I think it was a product of what they had to work with.
We now have three years of H and H. They have handpicked thier coach. they have a pretty elite coaching staff behind Shurmur.
Now, they've added some very good talent in guys like Ward, Haden, taylor, Sheard, Gocong, retained Jackson.
we'll see this year if the efforts on Offense pay dividends.. Richardson, Weeden, Schwartz and Benjeman and from previous years, Little.
I really think it wasn't an effort to lose as much as it was more a function of what happens when you are trying to build towards something.
So, I don't agree they tried to lose.
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Hillis was coming off of a special season. NFL network predicted our offensive line would be top 5. There was no reason to think Colt would not step up and be the guy but everything collapsed. Steiny went down. Pashos went down. Hillis was an injury plagued head case. Colt could not make a throw in front of a receiver even if he had a 10 yard cushion.
Steiny gone, Pashons gone, Hillis gone and soon to be Colt gone.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 05/26/12 12:43 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Yeah, there were a lot of things that happened last year. Not all of them were McCoy's fault, obviously. However, one thing that last year proved was that McCoy is not a QB who can raise the level of play of those around him. He is a game manager type. He can complete passes, but really does not place the ball well. (essential in an offense that requires RAC) he throws to a spot far better than he throws to a receiver, yet he seemed to doubt what he saw as far as throwing to a spot on the deeper routes. (10 yards and beyond)
I hope and expect that we will see a huge difference this year. I suspect that receivers will see the ball delivered in a spot where they can run with it without having to wait. I suspect that the timing throws will come out on time. I suspect that the routes that require the QB to throw when he hits that 3rd step on his drop will come out on that 3rd step. I also suspect that Weeden will trust his receivers more as far as them making plays for him. This may get him in trouble from time to time, but a QB who never has interceptions is a QB who never takes shots down the field.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 745
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 745 |
I wonder if the lack of a off season hurt the offense more so than the defense?
Camp Colt accomplished absolutely zero.
Going into the 2011 season,Hillis was the only real sure thing on offense other than Alex Mack, Joe Thomas.
The Browns failed to add sufficent depth on the 0-line and RB and gave the fans a line of B.S of how good the WR's were.
but on to now...there should be no QB competition. Thrown Weeden in like the Bengals did Andy Dalton.
if there is,your only taking snaps away from Weeden.
Jettison Wallace and McCoy.
bring in McNabb which I realize I'm in the minority. But you brought in Childress,why not McNabb.
If Weeden got hurt,would you rather have..Wallace,McNabb or McCoy?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830 |
Quote:
If Weeden got hurt,would you rather have..Wallace,McNabb or McCoy?
In all honesty McCoy. Wallace is a disgruntled bum. And so is McNabb at this point.
I loved McNAbb and followed him from the moment he was drafted.
But he has become a bitter, old, QB who complains to much,
Out of them, McCoy still has potential to grow.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
Quote:
jettison Wallace and McCoy.
bring in McNabb which I realize I'm in the minority. But you brought in Childress,why not McNabb
Because McNabb is over the hill and Childress isn't.
If you don't like McCoy or Wallace, then keep one of them this year, dump one, but not both. Keep Thad Lewis if he has anything (which I have no idea about) Then find someone else to groom next year as a replacement for McCoy/Wallace if you think you need to do that.
So,it could be Weeden, McCoy or Wallace and Lewis. Wallace is expensive, isn't any better than McCoy. McCoy is cheap.
McNabb isn't even a reasonable backup anymore.. Philly dumped him, Washington Dumped him and Minnesota Dumped him. and to my knowledge, nobody has picked him up. What's that tell you. McNabb wasn't ever, nor will he ever be a guy that can play at an advanced age like a Favre..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Heckert comments on QB competition
and Phil Taylor news
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