|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2
Rookie
|
Rookie
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2 |
Hi folks, first post, a fan since the mid-80's, Weeden/McCoy/Wallace?didn't we also bank our hopes on Quinn/Frye/Dilfer/Garcia/Anderson? Reality check, our current QB's would struggle to find starting jobs on most teams. I'm excited about Richardson and I also think Little will improve. Offense will still struggle
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
Welcome aboard.
I think that Weeds will give us our best QB play in over a decade. He has a very good arm, he can make all of the throws, and he has accuracy and touch. I think that we will see huge improvement, especially over last year.
We will have a ton of youth, no doubt. It is talented youth though, so it will be interesting to see how they grow together.
Right now i am more optimistic than I have been in a long, long, long time. I don't expect to win the Super Bowl next year, but I do think that we'll see big steps forward, and continuing steps forward as the year progresses.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,064
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,064 |
Oh, Canada(dog)! Welcome aboard! I agree it has been dismal. I actually hope to see some effective offense this season. Some have matured, some have healed, some have left. I hope Chilly can find some players he can connect with and Weeds can deliver. I have harped on here that in my opinion it starts with game plan and adjustments. I do not think our sideline was effective enough on either. Much depends on receivers while TR improves and really should "show" in the second half of games and the season. I am hopeful for us. I would rather see us do more well, even fewer things, rather than than doing a number of mediocre things offensively, but most of all I want to see us on offense sustaining drives and scoring touchdowns. Scoring forgives flukes, bad calls, and such to a degree. I hope we are aggressive in attacking on offense more on the ground and in the air. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
welcome.
lots of youth on offense, so yes, I expect it to struggle at times. but, I also hope it shows plenty of flashes of what it will become.
as for QB: Weeden is the starter. We won't know how good he is until he steps onto the field, so we'll see.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Weeden/McCoy/Wallace?didn't we also bank our hopes on Quinn/Frye/Dilfer/Garcia/Anderson?
Yes, and we will continue to bank our hopes on somebody until one steps up and performs.
Quote:
Reality check, our current QB's would struggle to find starting jobs on most teams.
See comment above. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 816
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 816 |
I'm cautiously optimistic. I expect flashes of really good football with some truly epic bone headed rookie mistakes thrown in for comic relief. What I want to see is an offense on the way up. What we actually get to see is anyones' guess right now. All the prior years stats, the comparisons of apples to oranges, the desperate search for someone to blame; none of that matters now. It's a new season with lots of new players.
How long till camp? Then we'll have a fresh new crop of topic to argue bitterly over until the games start to count.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
Welcome aboard
McCoy and Wallace finding starting jobs elsewhere is probably true. I still think McCoy would be better than he showed if he had some talent around him.
As for weeden. There really isn't anyway to know that for sure yet. I mean, if you base it on his college years, you'd be wrong. But he hasn't played a down in the NFL,, so that's way way to soon to rate.
I like the Richardson pick as well.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
Welcome!
Might as well be optimistic. I think Weeden will be a plus QB for us. I think it will be like the best of Derrick Anderson with some touch, at least from the arm standpoint. How he reacts on the field will be a work in progress.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582 |
Quote:
Welcome!
Might as well be optimistic. I think Weeden will be a plus QB for us. I think it will be like the best of Derrick Anderson with some touch, at least from the arm standpoint. How he reacts on the field will be a work in progress.
all i expect is 4-5 more first downs a game and 1-2 TDs a game...i think he can do that...and the D will do the rest hopefully. What do you think? Everybody wants a Franchise QB, but i'll settle for the above.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Quote:
I have harped on here that in my opinion it starts with game plan and adjustments. I do not think our sideline was effective enough on either.
You know, I feel the same way to a great extent. But then I had time to cool off after the season was over and think about it more objectively. And while I still think our HC has a lot of room for growth, one must ask themselves.....
If you install the most vanilla plays on O that one possibly can in the WCO, and your O can't even execute those properly, how can you open up the playbook further? I mean don't you think that your offense has to be able to at least execute the fundamentals before you can open the playbook up further?
And given the circumstances of last year with the lock-out, I'm not going to try to lay the blame on anyone specific. Due to the lock-out, both the team and coaching staff lacked the time to properly implement the WCO prior to the beginning of the season.
So everyone suffered because of it. I do believe the plan was to start with the basic, fundamental WCO plays. Then, as the team began executing those plays, you slowly expand the playbook as the season progresses. The problem is, the basics simply never were executed with any consistancy.
So I think there's plenty of blame to go around for everyone. Starting with the NFL owners instituting the lock-out, our coaches and players. Everyone shares at least some part of that burden to an extent IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Quote:
Quote:
I have harped on here that in my opinion it starts with game plan and adjustments. I do not think our sideline was effective enough on either.
You know, I feel the same way to a great extent. But then I had time to cool off after the season was over and think about it more objectively. And while I still think our HC has a lot of room for growth, one must ask themselves.....
If you install the most vanilla plays on O that one possibly can in the WCO, and your O can't even execute those properly, how can you open up the playbook further? I mean don't you think that your offense has to be able to at least execute the fundamentals before you can open the playbook up further?
And given the circumstances of last year with the lock-out, I'm not going to try to lay the blame on anyone specific. Due to the lock-out, both the team and coaching staff lacked the time to properly implement the WCO prior to the beginning of the season.
So everyone suffered because of it. I do believe the plan was to start with the basic, fundamental WCO plays. Then, as the team began executing those plays, you slowly expand the playbook as the season progresses. The problem is, the basics simply never were executed with any consistancy.
So I think there's plenty of blame to go around for everyone. Starting with the NFL owners instituting the lock-out, our coaches and players. Everyone shares at least some part of that burden to an extent IMO
Pitt well written and on the surface it looks like you have some very valid points, but lets dig just a bit furher before we throw this thing over our shoulders and declare you to be 100% correct.
With his same group of players Dabol was able to script out a series or 2 every week. And this team in the 1st half anyway looked like world beaters, I don't recall ever having that feeling watching last year at any point in any game.
No sir coaching was a big part of the problem or at least the teaching side was horrid. Shurmur and his WCO when compared to Dabol was awful, as bad as many thought Dabol was (me too BTW) his offense was better then Shurmurs. He at least was able to script install and execute 10 plays every week Shurmur couldn't even do that.
So while I would agree that all the issues you laid out were factors I think we have serious issues with Shurmur and this old and predictable version of the WCO he ran in St. Louis and now here.
JMHO
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I have harped on here that in my opinion it starts with game plan and adjustments. I do not think our sideline was effective enough on either.
You know, I feel the same way to a great extent. But then I had time to cool off after the season was over and think about it more objectively. And while I still think our HC has a lot of room for growth, one must ask themselves.....
If you install the most vanilla plays on O that one possibly can in the WCO, and your O can't even execute those properly, how can you open up the playbook further? I mean don't you think that your offense has to be able to at least execute the fundamentals before you can open the playbook up further?
And given the circumstances of last year with the lock-out, I'm not going to try to lay the blame on anyone specific. Due to the lock-out, both the team and coaching staff lacked the time to properly implement the WCO prior to the beginning of the season.
So everyone suffered because of it. I do believe the plan was to start with the basic, fundamental WCO plays. Then, as the team began executing those plays, you slowly expand the playbook as the season progresses. The problem is, the basics simply never were executed with any consistancy.
So I think there's plenty of blame to go around for everyone. Starting with the NFL owners instituting the lock-out, our coaches and players. Everyone shares at least some part of that burden to an extent IMO
Pitt well written and on the surface it looks like you have some very valid points, but lets dig just a bit furher before we throw this thing over our shoulders and declare you to be 100% correct.
With his same group of players Dabol was able to script out a series or 2 every week. And this team in the 1st half anyway looked like world beaters, I don't recall ever having that feeling watching last year at any point in any game.
No sir coaching was a big part of the problem or at least the teaching side was horrid. Shurmur and his WCO when compared to Dabol was awful, as bad as many thought Dabol was (me too BTW) his offense was better then Shurmurs. He at least was able to script install and execute 10 plays every week Shurmur couldn't even do that.
So while I would agree that all the issues you laid out were factors I think we have serious issues with Shurmur and this old and predictable version of the WCO he ran in St. Louis and now here.
JMHO
BTTB
Yes, Daboll was able to script out a few solid things, but don't forget, They had a camp, they had learning/teaching going on, they had a foundation (such as it was) in place to work off of. Shurmur had no such thing
Pits right. Last year was pretty much a mess. Plenty of blame to go around. This year should tell us everything we need to know about Shurmur and his staff as well as the players.
Which all plays a part in the evaluation of the FO as well.
This is either gonna be a whole lotta fun or we'll be sick as dogs.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
I kind of agree with that, I'm not a big "tough schedule" guy when it comes to the NFL, but I think we can all agree that last year's schedule was much tougher than we thought it was before the season started. A lot of the teams we faced were better than what was predicted. Off the top of my head, San Francisco, Houston, Cincinnati, Arizona, and even the Raiders were a bit better than we thought. Really only St. Louis and Indy were teams that came out worse than expected.
Couple that with a new coach with a new system not getting an offseason, and a quarterback, who on his very best day, is barely mediocre... Oh and let's not forget our star running back flaking out on the team. Everything bad that could have happened last year, did in fact happen. Even then, Pat had his guys in place to win quite a few games.
I don't know how Weeden is going to do, I could see a number of scenarios happen, but I do know he will take more chances than Colt did. Whether that was Colt himself being afraid or the coaches not letting him (he didn't throw that many picks, esp for a QB who had a bad year), I know that Brandon Weeden is going to take chances. He's gonna get picked off, but I think he'll grow by learning. I just can't see this dude constantly checking down. Having TR33 will obviously help with opening up the field as well.
Like I said, I'm not a big believer in tough/easy schedules. Every Sunday is rough in the NFL. If someone thinks the Browns are going to be bad, or if your name is Pete Priscoe, I need more than a tough schedule to hear why they'll be horrible.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
That's why I almost always ignore the SOS arguments. they are meaningless in that teams can rise or fall on any given year for any number of reasons.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
That's why I almost always ignore the SOS arguments. they are meaningless in that teams can rise or fall on any given year for any number of reasons.
I was never a believer in the phrase "any given Sunday.." but after having the Sunday Ticket the last two years, it's most definitely true. This league is set up to where anything can happen in any game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
I was never a believer in the phrase "any given Sunday.." but after having the Sunday Ticket the last two years, it's most definitely true. This league is set up to where anything can happen in any game.
The league works hard to set itself up that way, yet some teams consistently find ways to win and others consistently find ways to lose... so while anything CAN happen on any given Sunday, what DOES happen usually isn't all that unpredictable. Every year you have a couple teams that are surprisingly better than expected and a few that are surprisingly worse... and the rest goes according to what most people think will happen. I'm still waiting for the day that we are surprisingly better.. and then we actually stay better.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Quote:
I was never a believer in the phrase "any given Sunday.." but after having the Sunday Ticket the last two years, it's most definitely true. This league is set up to where anything can happen in any game.
The league works hard to set itself up that way, yet some teams consistently find ways to win and others consistently find ways to lose... so while anything CAN happen on any given Sunday, what DOES happen usually isn't all that unpredictable. Every year you have a couple teams that are surprisingly better than expected and a few that are surprisingly worse... and the rest goes according to what most people think will happen. I'm still waiting for the day that we are surprisingly better.. and then we actually stay better.
I kind of see where you are coming from, I think the other huge factor is people put way too much into the year before. Every year is so different. People tend to bank on things, because they went so the year before, the next year out is never a guarantee.
Hockey is actually beginning to be that way as well. An 8th seed just put together one the greatest runs in the history of the league. Lots of parity, it devalues the regular season, but the NHL knows their cash cow is the playoffs, and the NHL playoffs always deliver.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
you mean like how I keep seeing the Giants as some big favorite in the NFC-East on alot of national publications
(this despite that they had to win wk17 just to get into the playoffs and the Cowboys/Eagles both played terribly at times and finished a game back)
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 816
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 816 |
Quote:
Quote:
That's why I almost always ignore the SOS arguments. they are meaningless in that teams can rise or fall on any given year for any number of reasons.
I was never a believer in the phrase "any given Sunday.." but after having the Sunday Ticket the last two years, it's most definitely true. This league is set up to where anything can happen in any game.
Any team can, indeed, beat any other team on any given Sunday. That is, they can IF they put in the right kind of work preparing for Sunday. That's what separates the men from the boys in the NFL, preparation. Talent can get you further in college but the playing field is much more level in the NFL.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
Quote:
Quote:
That's why I almost always ignore the SOS arguments. they are meaningless in that teams can rise or fall on any given year for any number of reasons.
I was never a believer in the phrase "any given Sunday.." but after having the Sunday Ticket the last two years, it's most definitely true. This league is set up to where anything can happen in any game.
Any given Sunday... well, yeah,. Remember when the Tim Couch led Browns kicked the Steelers to the curb in Pittsburgh? any given sunday.
I was kinda looking at it as a year to year thing. One year, your teams a dog, the next year, they make great strides and maybe get to the Playoffs.. Kinda like Cincy last year or SF last year. that kinda thing.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
I think the other huge factor is people put way too much into the year before. Every year is so different. People tend to bank on things, because they went so the year before, the next year out is never a guarantee.
I agree that people probably put too much emphasis on it but there are generally just a few teams that greatly exceed expectations and a few that greatly underachieve... the rest probably play right about where you think they should.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Quote:
With his same group of players Dabol was able to script out a series or 2 every week. And this team in the 1st half anyway looked like world beaters, I don't recall ever having that feeling watching last year at any point in any game.
As has been mentioned, Dabol had mini-camps, training camp and a full pre=season with which to prepare the team at least to a far better grasp of his basic offense before going into the regular season. Is that the entire story? No, I don't think so. But I do feel it has at least some baring on things.
Quote:
No sir coaching was a big part of the problem or at least the teaching side was horrid. Shurmur and his WCO when compared to Dabol was awful, as bad as many thought Dabol was (me too BTW) his offense was better then Shurmurs. He at least was able to script install and execute 10 plays every week Shurmur couldn't even do that.
I'm not a Shurmer fan myself. I feel his clock management and the fact that the team did not progress more is to some, if not in large part to his shortcomings. So we really don't disagree with this issue as much as may have been indicated in my post above.
I just am not willing to put "the entire blame" on his shoulders. I feel not only ourselves, but many other fans saw this too. Yet, more importantly, I feel that the FO felt this and that is why we see Childress here now. I know publicly the company line is trying to save face by saying that "Shurmer still makes the calls on O", but let's face it, Chidress has far more experience and they didn't bring him here paying him the big bucks because they truely have confidence in Shurmers abilities.
Quote:
So while I would agree that all the issues you laid out were factors I think we have serious issues with Shurmur and this old and predictable version of the WCO he ran in St. Louis and now here.
And I don't disagree with you to much if any extent. I simply wished to point out that there were other factors to consider in the equasion besides Shurmer. But I'm certainly not a proponent of his by any stretch of the imagination and do feel that all of the above mentioned circumstances at least played some role of our disapointing season last year.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Clad to see you are reasonable Pitt and I think the FO has made Shurmur into a figure head... The part I don't get though is why oh why would you hire a coach like Shurmur proclaim to the world that he is a good coach, bla, bla, bla, and give him zero power? It seems like a wasted roster spot. We need a HC that can coach, we aren't that good to begin with and we need all hands on deck to get better... I question the FO for this reason and always will.. We aren't pittsburg we can't afford to hire a figure head... BTTB PS we really do agree though... 
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
It's the company line..... ie.... "We are comfortable with our WR core going into this season." To Colt, "We will not be drafting a QB in round 1." I mean, what else are they going to say? "Our WR's suck and we're in big trouble!?" LOL Most coaches never make it with their first team. Look at Belichick. I think what we have is a HC in training as sad as that sounds. But let's be realistic here. What established HC would want to coach here? Up to this point at least, we didn't have the talent to win many games. Would an established HC want to set himself up for failure? Would he want to be coaching in the shadow of both Heckert and Holmgren? I guess I don't see where H&H have as many options to acquire a top notch or extremely talented HC as some seem to think they do. And I do believe our next HC is already here. Our *Head Coach in waiting* as it were. Childress...... I honestly feel that it took quite a bit of negotiating and some back door promises to get a former HC with an established O scheme that lines up with the H&H school of thought to come here and work behind someone with far lesser skills than himself. I'd say they told him they were going to dedicate themselves to bring in the talent to win. To let Shurmer take the brunt of the losing with all of them being rookies and learning the sysytem. Then, after this season is over, use that losing record as sound reasoning for replacing Shurmer and Childress will take over with all of the guys we drafted this year having a year of experience and a fairly good grasp of the system. Then Childress will be handed the reigns of a compitant team with all of the pieces in place to win. I think kicking Shurmer to the curb after one season would not look good so the only solution is to let him remain our HC in name for one more season. And what are they supposed to say for now? "Yes he sucks, but we're going to let him stay for another year." If you thik this scenario is a little far fetched, just remember, the NFL is a business first and foremost. And not only are H&H and Childress football minds, they're also businessmen. Childress wasn't going to come in here to fail or play second fiddle to some rookie HC who has shown a lot of weaknesses. JMHO 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
Who is the head coach of the Browns?
Reading that post, I think my eggs are hatching before I can count the chickens.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Really? I counted quite a few chickens last year. Did you miss it? Do you think another dismal record will sit well with the "consumers of this corperation" for another season? You don't think a sacrificial lamb will have to pay the price? It's really a very basic concept and not much of a reach at all.... In all seriousness, do you really expect many wins with rookies at QB, RB, 2WR's, RT and Taylor out? Sit back and enjoy the show!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6 |
Weeden thru 24 TDs and 2 INTs in the red zone, Hopeing it continues here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605 |
Quote:
Weeden thru 24 TDs and 2 INTs in the red zone, Hopeing it continues here.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246 |
j/c Should The Philadelphia Eagles Make A Move For QB Colt McCoy? PITTSBURGH, PA - DECEMBER 08: Colt McCoy #12 of the Cleveland Browns looks to pass against the Pittsburgh Steelers at Heinz Field on December 8, 2011 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. (Photo by Jared Wickerham/Getty Images) Bookmark and Share By Tommy Lawlor - Contributor QB Colt McCoy might be traded by the Cleveland Browns. Should the Eagles be interested in him or is sticking with Mike Kafka the smart move? Follow @sbnphilly on Twitter, and Like SB Nation Philly on Facebook. Jul 14, 2012 - There has been a lot of talk in Cleveland about how quarterback Colt McCoy could be on the outs. He's not happy that the team drafted Brandon Weeden in the first round. McCoy and his family have been vocal with their displeasure on McCoy's status with the Browns. A lot of people think the Green Bay Packers could come after McCoy because they have Graham Harrell sitting behind Aaron Rodgers. Last year's backup Mike Flynn is now in Seattle hoping for a starting job. Harrell has never thrown a pass in a regular season NFL game. The Packers believe in developing their own players, but we'll see soon enough if they have any interest in McCoy. What about the Eagles? They have Mike Kafka pegged as the backup right now. He's played in a couple of games, but is still very light on experience. Should McCoy be a target? I don't think so. I was a huge Colt McCoy fan when he came out. I loved watching him at Texas. McCoy was talented, but won plenty of games with toughness and heart as well. I think guys like that have a real shot to succeed in the NFL. Unfortunately, McCoy was drafted by the Browns and has had a rough go of it. The NFL changes players, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. Look no further than Vince Young last year. Was that really the same guy who led Texas to a pair of Rose Bowl wins? Young didn't have the same confidence or flair. He has had success in the NFL, but the league has changed him. Football is a business here, not a game. I think Young struggles with that. He wants to be the BMOC. McCoy happened to go to a team with significant offensive issues. The Browns have finished 29th or worse in points and yards in each of McCoy's two seasons. They did the same thing the year before he got there. This isn't about one player. This is a systematic failure. They lack talent, scheme, and execution. The talent side of things may be changing with the arrival of young players such as Trent Richardson, Greg Little, Josh Gordon, and Weeden. Still, the only thing close to a slam dunk prospect there is Richardson. As a rookie, McCoy's most productive wide receiver was Chansi Stuckey. He caught 40 passes and averaged a whopping 8.7 yards per catch. Tight end Ben Watson caught 68 passes and led the team with three touchdown catches. 2011 wasn't a whole lot better. Little led the way with 61 catches, two of them were touchdowns. Watson fell off to just 37 catches. This was truly a pop-gun offense. This is important to understand because it factors into the evaluation of McCoy. The guy we saw at Texas who was so tough and creative and productive...we don't know if he still exists. You could make a trade and hope that is the player that shows up. I have my doubts. Here's the thing. Quarterback is a tough position. Young players who struggle and get their head beaten in do not always bounce back from that. The best example I can think of is David Carr. He was a stud at Fresno State. The Houston Texans drafted him first overall in 2002 and hoped he would be the star of the franchise. The Texans ignored the offensive line significantly as they built up the team and Carr led the NFL in getting sacked for three of his first four seasons. That ruined him. Carr still had the physical skills, but he was gun shy permanently because all he knew was constant pressure. Sacks and hits have been somewhat of an issue for McCoy, but equally as bad is simply dealing with players who cannot get open. That forces a quarterback to hold the ball. He then becomes indecisive about who to throw to. A good quarterback plays with a sense of rhythm. His back foot plants on the drop back and he fires the ball out. A struggling quarterback drops back and looks, looks, looks before finally getting the ball out. To me, that's kind of where McCoy is right now. It also doesn't help that McCoy has had two different offenses and sets of coaches in two years. That can shake a young player's confidence. Sam Bradford showed great promise in 2010 and looked awful in 2011. The big difference was a coaching change. What do we know about McCoy? Not much, in a definitive sense. He has 21 NFL starts. The team was 6-15 in those games, but that's hardly all on him. His quarterback rating is 74.5, which is okay for a young guy with limited weapons. McCoy hasn't shown anything special, in terms of instincts or physical skills. He could develop into being a solid starter, but we've not seen enough evidence to think that is likely. And we don't know if the bad habits developed over the last two years are something that can be coached out of him or if they're permanent. The Browns obviously don't feel much confidence in McCoy. We know that because they spent a first round pick on a 28-year old quarterback prospect. You don't draft Weeden to develop him for the future. I must admit that I'm bothered by the way McCoy has handled the situation. No player wants to lose his job. That's a hard part of football. Complaining in the press or having family members complain in the press just isn't the right way to handle things. I go back to the Drew Brees-Phillip Rivers story. Brees was the incumbent starter when the Chargers took Rivers early in the first round. Brees attitude was that "This is my team. I'm here. I'm the leader. I'm not giving it up." He didn't say that to the press or management. He said it to his teammates. Brees then went out and had the best year of his young career. The only reason the Eagles should have interest in McCoy is if they see him as a clear upgrade on Mike Kafka. Some people will point to McCoy's 21 starts and a few good games or wins that he had as evidence that he would be an improvement. The problem here is that people are mistaking the fact that Kafka hasn't done much with the conclusion that he can't do much. Kafka is an unknown commodity. He could turn out to be a good starter. He could be a bad player. The Eagles have faith in him, at least as a backup. They scouted him. They drafted him. They coached and developed him. Now they are comfortable with him as the backup. While Kafka doesn't have McCoy's experience, he also doesn't have his bad habits. Kafka isn't a shell-shocked player who the coaches need to fix. He's a young guy that the team is trying to improve. That can be a big difference with quarterbacks. Trying to teach someone a new offense and make them un-learn bad habits is harder than you might think. When put into a live practice or game situation, a player reverts to what he knows. Old habits show up in a big way. Kafka is entering his third year with the Eagles. He's shown progress each year. The mini-camp reports from the spring said that Kafka looks better than ever. This wasn't one person, but a general opinion. Kafka doesn't have the resume to point to, but he fits the profile you want with a young quarterback. He's in the same system. He's dealing with the same coaches. He's got a good line and good skill players to work with. Kafka doesn't have to go on the field and be Drew Brees. He just needs to run the team in an efficient way and let the players around him do their jobs. McCoy would have to learn the offense, although I'm sure it is similar to the one he played in last year since his coach was Pat Shurmur, a former Eagles assistant coach. Still, the way the system worked in Cleveland and the way things are in Philly are different. McCoy would have to adjust to the players and coaches. He'd be learning a lot. I just don't see the upside to making a change. If a guy like Matt Hasselbeck for some reason became available, go grab him. He's a proven veteran who knows the system and worked with Reid years ago in Green Bay. He'd be worth the trouble. McCoy should be a target for teams who don't have a backup they are comfortable with. The Eagles front office and coaching staff still likes Kafka. The drafting of Nick Foles tells you that they may not see Kafka as a starter, but he can still be a good backup if he takes a step forward this season. I wouldn't be angry if the Eagles traded a late pick for McCoy, but I don't think that will happen. I also don't think it should. Is he a true upgrade over Kafka? Remember, the question isn't whether he's got more experience. He does. Is McCoy better? Coming out of college I would have said yes, but a lot has happened since then. At this point, I think sticking with Kafka is the prudent move. - interesting look at killing a QB's future. http://philly.sbnation.com/philadelphia-...r-qb-colt-mccoy
Go Browns !!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989 |
Quote:
I must admit that I'm bothered by the way McCoy has handled the situation. No player wants to lose his job. That's a hard part of football. Complaining in the press or having family members complain in the press just isn't the right way to handle things. I go back to the Drew Brees-Phillip Rivers story. Brees was the incumbent starter when the Chargers took Rivers early in the first round. Brees attitude was that "This is my team. I'm here. I'm the leader. I'm not giving it up." He didn't say that to the press or management. He said it to his teammates. Brees then went out and had the best year of his young career.
Funny... Didn't know Colt was such a bad seed. And I also didn't know Colt threw I. The towel and stopped working hard.
Who is this guy and how does he know so much about what brees didn't say to the press? Or that Colt has completely given up and has become a disruption in the locker room??? Lol
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
Quote:
I must admit that I'm bothered by the way McCoy has handled the situation. No player wants to lose his job. That's a hard part of football. Complaining in the press or having family members complain in the press just isn't the right way to handle things.
I hadn't heard a negative word from McCoy,, not one word that would indicate that he's handling in any manner than as competition. What did I miss, what did he say.
And this reporter is saying that McCoy is HAVING family members complain in the press. I doubt McCoy wanted them to do that or asked them to do that.
Weeden was drafted to be the starter.. I don't think anyone actually questions that.
But I don't understand the questions about keeping McCoy., As I think the reporter correctly points out, he had nothing around him yet everything seems to land on his shoulders.
Ehh,. another talking head
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
I believe SBNation articles are written by fans, much like Bleacherreport. This article could have been written better by any number of posters here on Dawgtalkers. Anyone else catch the reference to last years Green Bay backup QB "Mike" Flynn?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605 |
jc,
Every few days it seems there is an article about trading for McCoy to replace guys like Kafka & Harrell.
I ask, why would we do that leaving just Seneca and nobody if Weeden goes down. resent History states Cleveland needs a good backup too.
McCoy for a low round pick like this article states doesnt make any sense for the Browns.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 816
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 816 |
Quote:
jc,
Every few days it seems there is an article about trading for McCoy to replace guys like Kafka & Harrell.
I ask, why would we do that leaving just Seneca and nobody if Weeden goes down. resent History states Cleveland needs a good backup too.
McCoy for a low round pick like this article states doesnt make any sense for the Browns.
I don't think it makes good sense for McCoy to leave the Browns. He'll be in the NFL for a long time if he can establish himself as a kind of journeyman quarterback. A guy with all the tools who can get a job done long enough to keep the team moving forward. He's young, he's been through a hell of a couple years, and I firmly believe some time on the sidelines will improve his game. I'm not giving up on McCoy but I sure don't want him as our starter.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
jc,
Every few days it seems there is an article about trading for McCoy to replace guys like Kafka & Harrell.
I ask, why would we do that leaving just Seneca and nobody if Weeden goes down. resent History states Cleveland needs a good backup too.
McCoy for a low round pick like this article states doesnt make any sense for the Browns.
Yeah, I like how all of these folks who write about us trading Colt for a late round pick think that it's in our best interest ... it is not!
Heck we ended up with a 4th round selection for BQ.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
a 6th and a 5th, actually, and the 5th was because denver re-traded away their 6th, so ours moved up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
a 6th and a 5th, actually, and the 5th was because denver re-traded away their 6th, so ours moved up.
Yes but that 5th turned into a 4th, because they already traded the 5th round pick away 
Oh and we selected JMJ with that 4th round selection.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 07/26/12 10:23 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
no, the 2nd fourth we had was from the ATL trade, which we traded away as part of the richardson deal. we got the 4th for JMJ in our 3rd-round trade-down after posey got plucked. our 5th from den turned into the reserve OL from colorado.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
no, the 2nd fourth we had was from the ATL trade, which we traded away as part of the richardson deal. we got the 4th for JMJ in our 3rd-round trade-down after posey got plucked. our 5th from den turned into the reserve OL from colorado.
Refer to the "Draft Tracker" I just did and that pick [JMJ] came by way of Denver.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/243232/4/Browns-trade-down-to-Broncos-in-3rd-roundENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) - The Denver Broncos orchestrated a deal with Cleveland to move up in the third round and select San Diego State running back Ronnie Hillman with the 67th overall pick in the NFL draft. In the swap, Denver sent the Browns its third-round pick, No. 87 overall, and a fourth-rounder (No. 120). A workhorse for the Aztecs, Hillman finished his career with 3,243 yards rushing. That's third on the school's all-time list, trailing only Marshall Faulk (4,589 yards) and Larry Ned (3,462). Hillman will more than likely serve as the backup for Willis McGahee, who led the team in rushing with 1,199 yards last season.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum McCoy vs Weeden
|
|
![[Linked Image from dcptest.com]](http://www.dcptest.com/kelly64.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif){kind=logo}
