DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum FoxSports: Browns QB Position Analysis

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Colt McCoy: I want to finish what I started in Cleveland

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“It’s been a rough ride thus far,” McCoy said. “We’ve had our ups and downs. I’ve had three [offensive] coordinators going into my third year. Two head coaches in two years. There’s been some ups and downs and things you have to fight through. Most are things out of your control. But for me, I would just like a little consistency.

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If McCoy is moved and Weeden struggles, the noise for inserting Wallace would be just the same as McCoy.

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Do you actually believe that? You think people WANT Wallace out there?

If Wallace is the backup, everyone knows we're going with Weeden no matter what barring injury, he's not ganna get pulled, he's going to take whatever lumps he gets.

If McCoy's here, every incomplete pass, the camera pans to Colt sitting on the sidelines, every interception the "We Want Colt" crew grows louder and louder...

If you think Wallace and Colt have basically the same abilities, yeah sure, but to say them being behind Weeden MEANS the same thing? Hardly.

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If McCoy is moved and Weeden struggles, the noise for inserting Wallace would be just the same as McCoy.

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Do you actually believe that? You think people WANT Wallace out there?

If Wallace is the backup, everyone knows we're going with Weeden no matter what barring injury, he's not ganna get pulled, he's going to take whatever lumps he gets.

If McCoy's here, every incomplete pass, the camera pans to Colt sitting on the sidelines, every interception the "We Want Colt" crew grows louder and louder...

If you think Wallace and Colt have basically the same abilities, yeah sure, but to say them being behind Weeden MEANS the same thing? Hardly.

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Since when does it really matter what fans want? I mean, seriously, if the FO and coaching staff keep Wallace over McCoy simply because they are worried about what fans will say if Weeden struggles, then we need a new FO and Coaching staff.. If they keep Wallace over McCoy because they feel he better fits the role,, fine..no problem.. hope they are right..

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If McCoy's here, every incomplete pass, the camera pans to Colt sitting on the sidelines, every interception the "We Want Colt" crew grows louder and louder...

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Why would you keep Wallace as a backup?

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For Colt's own good and the good of Weeden's development Colt should go to another team.

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For Colt's own good?

I can make the argument that Cleveland is the BEST place for McCoy to be by pointing out several factors:

1) He knows this particular set of receivers better than any in the league
2) He knows this offense better than any other he'd learn in the league
3) If I were wanting to back up any QB in the NFL with the idea that I'm in line to play if he flames out, it would be behind a 29-year old rookie, especially considering that what Weeden is about to attempt has never been accomplished by a man of his age in NFL history.

Taking this a step further, I think too many people who were in love with McCoy still hold on to some of that admiration and belief to this day. Do folks outside of Cleveland and Austin think McCoy has what it takes? Hell no they don't. The vast majority don't view McCoy as a threat to anyone. He's an awe-shucks, Hee-Haw, under-sized and under-tooled backup of a QB. People won't root for him any more or any less than your typical backup QB if Weeden doesn't become good. Hell, Charlie freakin' Frye had a bigger cult-following, and he wasn't as good as McCoy.

If anyone thinks Weeden is either scared, threatened, or some combination of both when he considers the threat that is Colt McCoy, at that.

If Weeden plays well it wouldn't matter who the backup QB is, and conversely, if he turns out to be a bum, people wouldn't hesitate to bark at how Thadeus Lewis should be playing.

McCoy was a 3rd round flyer of a pick. Holmgren believed he was so smart that he could pluck a jewel from the bin of misfit toys and he was wrong. That player was never expected to become a starter by those outside of Cleveland, and now even those in Cleveland know it.

The only people who are truly concerned with and about McCoy are a few reporters who just have to keep banging the drum because it's a loooooooong off-season and a few diehard fans who represent the same percentage who believed a player like Frye just didn't get enough time.

Keep McCoy or move him, he's a non-factor in the big picture now. He's a quality backup who is priced quite well. As much as I've rallied against McCoy as a starter since well-before the day we drafted him, I'm quite content with the idea that he could remain on the roster as the backup. That's what character can do for your team.

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Keep McCoy or move him, he's a non-factor in the big picture now.

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Why do we need "the best plan B" in the event that Weeden "flat out sucks", if he's not good enough to win with?

I'm not being smart here, but if the front office has decided that McCoys ceiling is that of a career backup ...... then how helpful would he be if the new starter fails? In the event that Weeden fails, we'll be looking for a new starting QB in next year's draft, not to "give McCoy a try" again. A guy who might win one game by virtue of his ability would only push us down in draft order ... and maybe knock us out of the running, again, for a top starting QB.

I can see the need for a guy who can win in the event of an injury, but I see McCoy and Wallace as somewhat even in that regard.

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... because you still need get through the season and win as many as possible. Like any other position on the roster, you want to have the best depth possible at QB. I would think that's a pretty basic premise. However, maybe in your McCoy-must-go-at-all-cost world, it isn't.

In my post I said I want the FO to keep the 2-3 best guys. If it's Weeden, Wallace and someone not named McCoy, I'm good with that. If it's Weeden, McCoy and someone else, that's fine too. If it's Weeden and someone not currently on our roster, so be it. I don't care so long as the FO is deciding on talent alone (and not what may be most "convenient").

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You just kind of made your whole post invalid with this. If he's a non-factor, then why is getting rid of him a big deal?

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Getting rid of him is NOT a big deal, which is my point. Furthermore, I also am making the point that too many people wrongly believe keeping him IS a big deal because they seem to think he either is better than he really is or can be disruptive. Neither is true, and thus he's not really a factor in the big picture. Capiche?

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And we'd get more for him in return (anything) than we would Wallace (nothing)

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A 7th round pick is about as close to nothing as you can get. We're better off keeping him than dumping him for a 7th rounder. He has no more value than that, which should tell everyone just how the rest of the league views him.

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I think colt stays on the team and if he is traded, it will be during the regular season.

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That would be prudent.

I think it would be unwise to trade a QB who can win some games if not the be all to end all for what a 6th or a 7th round Draft pick?

Loss!

And for what reason, because some (cry baby) FANS can't get over the fact that he didn't come in and take the League by storm? Get over yourselves already FTLOG.

The only distraction is what some folks dream up (what ifs) in their heads imo ... this is a business and in this business the best man wins and the rest fall inline. End of story!

I could care less what the media thinks, they don't run this team and thank God for that.

Edit: The QB position is a Key position in the 'depth' of your team.

If we can upgrade any position on this team, then I think that is a positive for the team, but to kick the replaced player to the curb, because you think that you have upgraded the position is a negative for the team imho.

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If I had to guess, I would say that McCoy's place on the team is assured...right up until the day Weeden signs his contract...then McCoy goes to whichever team has already agreed to acquire him.

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I personally want to keep Colt for the long haul.. I mentioned that earlier.. but I was just stating what I think will happen.

Again, if Shurmur tells his team and also the media that Weeden is the starter, and Colt is the backup.. and that is THAT!! then there should be no controversy. If the media tries to raise an issue if Weeden doesn't perform well, its his job as the head coach to put the media in place and let them know he stand 100% behind his QB and behind his decision.

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I personally want to keep Colt for the long haul.. I mentioned that earlier.. but I was just stating what I think will happen.

Again, if Shurmur tells his team and also the media that Weeden is the starter, and Colt is the backup.. and that is THAT!! then there should be no controversy. If the media tries to raise an issue if Weeden doesn't perform well, its his job as the head coach to put the media in place and let them know he stand 100% behind his QB and behind his decision.

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That's pretty much how it should be too.

Colt is under contract with us for two more years and if he decides to seek greener pastures, then we can get a comp pick for losing him then, because that's basically what we would be getting in return for any trade at the moment anyways.

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If I understand the system correctly, there very well could be no compensatory pick for losing Colt McCoy to free agency, because he won't be signing a contract in 2 years that would garner us a compensatory pick. While the NFL hasn't released what their formula is for determining the picks, it is supposed to depend upon salary structure and production, when comparing players signed t players lost. Last year, for example, the Panthers lost Jake Delhomme to us ..... but he wasn't a factor in the equation as far as who receiver compensatory picks, and who didn't. I assume that age was the deciding factor in his case, but contract structure would also seem to come into play, and I cant see anyone giving McCoy a huge deal in free agency. Then again, he is a backup QB with some experience, and we don't know how someone would overvalue that position.

However, if McCoy is a backup the year before he goes to free agency, and he puts up zero stats (one of these years has to see a Browns QB make it all the way through the year without injury) then I would assume that our "net loss" will be nothing where he is concerned. No net loss, no compensatory pick as far as I can tell.

I should add the disclaimed again that this is as I understand the system, because the NFL never really released the official rules ... so they could just throw names in a hat as far as we know. It is dangerous to assume that a player will bring, or cost, a compensatory pick ....... because, Only the NFL knows ...........

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McCoy younger, more upside, cheaper.

Wallace older, never going to get any better, and more expensive.

If we were talking about any position but QB most people would be screaming to cut the vet. In this case I am one of the lone wolves who think McCoy shouldn't be going anywhere.

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McCoy younger, more upside, cheaper.

Wallace older, never going to get any better, and more expensive.

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What I am saying is that the first time Weeden makes a horrendous play (and it will happen - he's 28 but he's still human and he's still a rookie) the shouts will go up for Colt. If BW has a couple of bad games the clamor for McCoy will be deafening. And I'm not talking about the media. I'm talking about fans.

And while I don't think the coaching staff and front office will let the fans dictate what they do I do think it will be very distracting to the players. A distraction that this very young team does not need.

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Go with Weeden from Day One and don't look back. A year from now we'll be glad we did. JMHO

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In that regard, I think you are probably correct. However, Weeden cannot be his own backup.

The fans who might clamor for McCoy after a bad Weeden outing...will clamor for Wallace instead if McCoy is gone. Those fans simply don't/won't understand why the coaches do what they do.

We cannot determine 2nd stringers while worrying about the fans' opinions. (I know you know that...and I hear what you are saying about fan reaction possibly becoming an issue.)

In the end, I think we will all see that Weeden is the better QB with much better upside...and I like McCoy.

Weeden has to be given the opportunity that a 1st Rd investment demands...it is what it is. If he slips or gets hurt and needs some time on the sidelines, McCoy is the perfect backup. When Weeden is ready, McCoy absolutely goes back to being the perfect backup.

I see McCoy like I see Charlie Batch.

I think we best keep McCoy and the professionals in the organization will proceed just fine....at least they should.

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Weeden vs McCoy has been decided, this is about McCoy vs Wallace. The "upside" talk is more a discussion about having room to improve, not to be a star. McCoy has room to get better and, IMO, Wallace is what he has always been and always will be.

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j/c

If Colt had so much upside, we wouldn't have drafted Weeden.

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my point was that if you're going to look at someone as a backup, wouldn't you rather know what you're getting than hope he will get better? Especially if he will be taking a backup's number of snaps in practice?

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So you would kick Colt to the curb based on a what if's scenario?

Here's another ... What if Weeden was injured (God forbid) and lost for the season?

See how what if's work?

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So you would kick Colt to the curb based on a what if's scenario?

Here's another ... What if Weeden was injured (God forbid) and lost for the season?

See how what if's work?

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My scenario isn't a "what if" it's a "what will".

You know darn well that by the 2nd INT that Weeden throws all the McCoy fanboys will be hell bent on getting McCoy in there. You also know full well that nobody is gonna be screaming for Wallace if he's #2.

That's just the way it is in this town. At least as far back as I can remember.

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and you think that's a sound reason to kick the better player to the curb?

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So you would kick Colt to the curb based on a what if's scenario?

Here's another ... What if Weeden was injured (God forbid) and lost for the season?

See how what if's work?

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My scenario isn't a "what if" it's a "what will".

You know darn well that by the 2nd INT that Weeden throws all the McCoy fanboys will be hell bent on getting McCoy in there. You also know full well that nobody is gonna be screaming for Wallace if he's #2.

That's just the way it is in this town. At least as far back as I can remember.

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and you think that's a sound reason to kick the better player to the curb?

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So you would kick Colt to the curb based on a what if's scenario?

Here's another ... What if Weeden was injured (God forbid) and lost for the season?

See how what if's work?

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My scenario isn't a "what if" it's a "what will".

You know darn well that by the 2nd INT that Weeden throws all the McCoy fanboys will be hell bent on getting McCoy in there. You also know full well that nobody is gonna be screaming for Wallace if he's #2.

That's just the way it is in this town. At least as far back as I can remember.

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and you think that's a sound reason to kick the better player to the curb?

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Exactly.

I'd love to comment further, but apparently crazy thinks he can speak for me. Somehow he thinks I'm a fan boy of colt, when in reality I want the best backup qb available, and on the team.

Seneca ain't it.

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