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Actually, though, Wallace didn't have the same players to work with. He was missing Watson and Smith for at least 2 of his starts, along with Norwood. I would think that would make a difference.
he had the same line and the same receivers and the same running backs that Colt had with the exception of Norwood, watson and smith.
And he had no better luck
But, no sense in discussing it with you, it's all colts fault......
He had 2 of McCoy's receivers .... Little and Massaquoi. He had no Norwood. He had no safety blanket in Watson. He had no backup safety blanket in Smith. He had no blocking at TE in the final 2 games of the year. Neither Moore nor Cameron won any awards for their blocking last year.
Hey ... he did have Carlton Mitchell though ..... 
You act like he trotted out there with the exact same team McCoy had ..... and he didn't. He wasn't great. Neither was McCoy. If Wallace looks like a backup, then so does McCoy. The only question is .... which guy does the team feel gives them more? I suspect that it will wind up being Wallace as the backup, and McCoy gently dumped to some other team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Your right, it's all on McCoy,,,,, 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Your right, it's all on McCoy,,,,,
Where did I say "it's all on McCoy"?
What did I say in my post that was untrue? Was Watson not injured, and out of the final 3 games? Didn't Alex Smith also miss the last couple of years, as did Norwood, who was starting to become a bigger part of the offense?
I swear that sometimes you refuse to let go of the histrionics and read what was actually written.
I suppose that it must be much easier to just form opinions and decide what someone said in advance.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Are you guys actually arguing McCoy is better than Wallace?
Because that is highly debateable.
Bottom line on the two....flip a coin.
Who really cares who the backup is when the season starts?
Bro if you have to flip a coin why would you keep a older more expensive player on the roster? and I care who the backup is because I have seen way to many starters injured in my lifetime.
Let me first say that I don't think we as fans should get all worked up over the money.
And while I agree with you we want a capable backup because the likelihood of the starter getting hurt is high, I think we will get just about the same success with either guy.
I guess I'm at the point where I just don't care. If McCoy is on the team come game 1, great. If McCoy isn't on the team come game one, that's fine too.
In your heart of hearts you can't honestly make the argument that McCoy is better than Wallace. Younger? Yes. Less expensive? Yes. Better? That's debatable.
So I guess my point is I really don't think it matters.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Actually, though, Wallace didn't have the same players to work with. He was missing Watson and Smith for at least 2 of his starts, along with Norwood. I would think that would make a difference.
Really? ... You mentioned one starter (Watson), who btw also missed time with Colt under center and Colt was also without Moe for an extended amount of time. No running game and started the year with two platooning back-up RT's and basically 2 rookie OG's who both where much better by the time Wallace's number was called.
He proceeded to pass for just 51% and had two int's to go with two TD passes.  
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Actually, though, Wallace didn't have the same players to work with. He was missing Watson and Smith for at least 2 of his starts, along with Norwood. I would think that would make a difference.
Really? ... You mentioned one starter (Watson), who btw also missed time with Colt under center and Colt was also without Moe for an extended amount of time. No running game and started the year with two platooning back-up RT's and basically 2 rookie OG's who both where much better by the time Wallace's number was called.
He proceeded to pass for just 51% and had two int's to go with two TD passes.
Ytown,, love him to death, but he hates McCoy so much that he says stuff like that and thinks nobody knows the difference.. I've given up.. I just have decided to tell him it's all Colts fault.. 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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he had the same line and the same receivers and the same running backs that Colt had with the exception of Norwood, watson and smith.
And he had no better luck
He's not supposed to. He's the "back-up QB". He's actually supposed to be inferior to the starter or he would be the starter.
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But, no sense in discussing it with you, it's all colts fault......
What's Colts fault is he is supposed to be superior to the back-up, not equal. He simply can't make all of the throws and has a lot of trouble leading his WR's and hitting them in stride.
Something one might expect from a back-up, but not from your starter......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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he had the same line and the same receivers and the same running backs that Colt had with the exception of Norwood, watson and smith.
And he had no better luck
He's not supposed to. He's the "back-up QB". He's actually supposed to be inferior to the starter or he would be the starter.
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But, no sense in discussing it with you, it's all colts fault......
What's Colts fault is he is supposed to be superior to the back-up, not equal. He simply can't make all of the throws and has a lot of trouble leading his WR's and hitting them in stride.
Something one might expect from a back-up, but not from your starter......
So, just so I have this right,, you are all for Keeping Colt as the backup then? I mean, over the backup that wasn't good enough to beat him out as the starter? do I have that right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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he had the same line and the same receivers and the same running backs that Colt had with the exception of Norwood, watson and smith.
And he had no better luck
He's not supposed to. He's the "back-up QB". He's actually supposed to be inferior to the starter or he would be the starter.
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But, no sense in discussing it with you, it's all colts fault......
What's Colts fault is he is supposed to be superior to the back-up, not equal. He simply can't make all of the throws and has a lot of trouble leading his WR's and hitting them in stride.
Something one might expect from a back-up, but not from your starter......
So, just so I have this right,, you are all for Keeping Colt as the backup then? I mean, over the backup that wasn't good enough to beat him out as the starter? do I have that right?
I think the point is to keep the better players on the team. I would rather save cap space and drop Wallace. I see no reason of keeping Wallace. McCoy may have the same skill set, but I would say a higher ceiling in case the crap hits the fan and we have to use the backup.
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he had the same line and the same receivers and the same running backs that Colt had with the exception of Norwood, watson and smith.
And he had no better luck
He's not supposed to. He's the "back-up QB". He's actually supposed to be inferior to the starter or he would be the starter.
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But, no sense in discussing it with you, it's all colts fault......
What's Colts fault is he is supposed to be superior to the back-up, not equal. He simply can't make all of the throws and has a lot of trouble leading his WR's and hitting them in stride.
Something one might expect from a back-up, but not from your starter......
So, just so I have this right,, you are all for Keeping Colt as the backup then? I mean, over the backup that wasn't good enough to beat him out as the starter? do I have that right?
I think the point is to keep the better players on the team. I would rather save cap space and drop Wallace. I see no reason of keeping Wallace. McCoy may have the same skill set, but I would say a higher ceiling in case the crap hits the fan and we have to use the backup.
Those are my beliefs but some on here are more worried about the fans reaction if Weeden struggles.. which as a rookie, he's bound to do.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Those are my beliefs but some on here are more worried about the fans reaction if Weeden struggles.. which as a rookie, he's bound to do.
depends what he does "out of the gate" and how much the team wins. Dalton and Cam both had their struggles last year, but they both put up better numbers than expected early and had some goodwill built up. Also, the Bengals secured a playoff spot despite Andy faltering some down the stretch, so his struggles were easier to gloss over.
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Those are my beliefs but some on here are more worried about the fans reaction if Weeden struggles.. which as a rookie, he's bound to do.
depends what he does "out of the gate" and how much the team wins. Dalton and Cam both had their struggles last year, but they both put up better numbers than expected early and had some goodwill built up. Also, the Bengals secured a playoff spot despite Andy faltering some down the stretch, so his struggles were easier to gloss over.
well yeah, I understand that. Makes sense. But I am still amazed that some on here hate McCoy so much that they use, "the fans will put up signs wanting McCoy" if weeden struggles argument as reasoning for getting rid of him..
Look, as far as I'm concerned, if they trade mcCoy and get something for him and keep wallace,, I'm ok with it, but I'm just saying,,, I BELIEVE they'd be tossing away a guy that could get better for one that won't. And they'll be paying way more for the one that won't get better.
Last edited by Damanshot; 07/09/12 03:02 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Those are my beliefs but some on here are more worried about the fans reaction if Weeden struggles.. which as a rookie, he's bound to do.
Well by that logic, we should dump Hardesty and Obie and sign a guy like Thomas Jones and overpay him about $3 million a year.. since he's an aging 12 year veteran running back and won't threaten Trent Richardson in the event that he starts slow... 
At least Jones had half a dozen 1000+ yard seasons at one point in his career.
yebat' Putin
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Those are my beliefs but some on here are more worried about the fans reaction if Weeden struggles.. which as a rookie, he's bound to do.
Well by that logic, we should dump Hardesty and Obie and sign a guy like Thomas Jones and overpay him about $3 million a year.. since he's an aging 12 year veteran running back and won't threaten Trent Richardson in the event that he starts slow...
At least Jones had half a dozen 1000+ yard seasons at one point in his career.
Exactly my point. doesn't make sense does it. if richardson flops, is anyone worried about the fans holding up signs demanding Obie or Hardesty or jackson
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Those who trusted the FO and staff to pick Weeden, need to trust them to handle him appropriately even if he struggles, regardless of who is back up is... and those who don't trust the FO and staff probably never will so who cares what they think. 
yebat' Putin
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Those who trusted the FO and staff to pick Weeden, need to trust them to handle him appropriately even if he struggles, regardless of who is back up is... and those who don't trust the FO and staff probably never will so who cares what they think.
I'll be one of the first to admit, I wanted to see them assemble some talent to put around McCoy and then see what happens. But I'm ok with Weeden. he's got a cannon and by all accounts, he's very accurate and given his age, he's more mature than a run of the mill rookie. So I got no real gripe about his being picked.
I hope he's everything the FO thinks he is. That would be GREAT for the Browns.
I'm also on record saying that I don't have an issue with keeping Wallace and trading/cutting McCoy. I will believe it's the wrong move until proven otherwise, but if that's what they do, then so be it.
But when I stack up the facts between McCoy and Wallace,, for me, it's an easy decision, if I'm not going to keep them both, then Wallace has got be the one to go.
JMO.. Note, I don't put the H in there, cause I ain't Humble..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I thought that the H was for honest.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I agree whole heartedly with Daman except I wasn't too big on the Weeden pick and felt we could have done more with the pick. Anyway, here we are and I hope Weeden is as good as hoped for. It will be the 1st time we settled the qb position since our return.
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I thought that the H was for honest.
Always heard it was for Humble.
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I thought that the H was for honest.
Nope,,it's Humble..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I thought that the H was for honest.
Nope,,it's Humble..
As it relates to you, I thought it was for Horrible. 
yebat' Putin
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Interesting. Thanks for the education.
I guess because I am extremely honest (sometimes to a fault) but not so humble ...
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I thought that the H was for honest.
Nope,,it's Humble..
As it relates to you, I thought it was for Horrible.
50,000 comedians out of work, and you think you are funny
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Interesting. Thanks for the education.
I guess because I am extremely honest (sometimes to a fault) but not so humble ...
I'm sorry if I came across as rude, but the standard saying is "in my humble opinion" or IMHO.. I've always put IMO (in my opinion) because I'm not a very humble guy generallly speaking.
I'm not afraid to say I'm a great guy..that I'd help a friend, that I'd give you the shirt off my back but if you tried to take it, I'd rip your arms off... I'm' not humble at all.., not even a little.. LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm a million times more humble than you'll ever be.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I'm a million times more humble than you'll ever be.
As I've explained, I'm not humble...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All Pro
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I bet my dad's more humble than your dad
Wise words spoken by sages
From SkyTel to BlackBerry pagers
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I'm a million times more humble than you'll ever be.
As I've explained, I'm not humble...
It was a joke brother. Not sure what color jokes should be.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Didn't come across as rude at all. I was being sincere when I said interesting and thanks.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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What sucks the most to me is we have this conversation every year.. Who's starting ? Been having it for as long as I can remember.. Now you know why 3 #1's mean ZIP for a franchise QB. We could have spent 5 #1's a few years back and been ahead of the game. And if it takes a number one EVERY year till we find a our guy then I'm all for it....
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I'm a million times more humble than you'll ever be.
As I've explained, I'm not humble...
It was a joke brother. Not sure what color jokes should be.
Oh, it was colored...a color called "obvious." 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So, just so I have this right,, you are all for Keeping Colt as the backup then? I mean, over the backup that wasn't good enough to beat him out as the starter? do I have that right?
I'll leave that decision up to the FO. They know the locker room far better than I do.
There are some factors I believe they will have to weigh.
1. A very young locker room. Especialy on offense.
I feel those of us, and I dare guess in the locker room, find it very hard not to like Colt. He seems like a good person, a hard worker and a very likeable guy. Now we know all of the "PC comments" that have, are and will be said about Weeden.
But what about those young offensive players in the locker room? If Weeden struggles early, would it cause decension and a divided locker room? I don't have the answer for that because I'm not there and I don't know the true feelings of those players.
2. Fan base/media. Yes, I said fan base.
As much as people wish to dismiss it, the NFL is a product sold to consumers. It's a business. While I don't think you let your fan base dictate your every move, and this FO doesn't.... If you see an accident waiting to happen, you avoid it.
Once again, you have a very young locker room with a rookie QB and a rookie RB that will be major playmakers on this offense if we have any. How much of a distraction would it be to these players and the team in general, if all they hear in the media and the fan base is devicive?
How much of an impact would that make to a young offense?
3. Teacher
Someone will have to help teach this offense to Weeden. Yes, he should know the basics going into the season, but from everything I've seen and read, it's a very big and complicated playbook. So which guy is best suited to teach it to him? To help this offense progress and open up the playbook the fastest?
You have one guy who has been in a similar, almost exact playbook for 10 years. One who didn't have the option of proper mimi camps and training camp last year with one season under his belt.
And yes I realise he didn't want to help Colt. But after seeing both of them in the same offense, can't you see why he felt he and Colt were actually competing for the job? From his comments, he doesn't feel that way about Weeden. I know why, but did you ever ask yourself why?
From the aspect of cost and the "possibility" of having a long term back-up, Colt seems like the obvious choice. But it does appear his dad certainly has no love for this FO. Do ya think that may play some role going forward once Colts contract is up?
So there are some variables this FO has to take into consideration here besides simply who is younger and cheaper.
I don't feel that Colt has a firm grasp of this offense. I've been watching teams play the WCO in differing variations since I was a child. And believe me, what we saw was the tip of the iceburgh, more like an iceycle in the Arctic Ocean of the WCO playbook.
So how much can Colt help in the development of Weeden? How much can he help Weeden grasp what's going on out there simply by watching this offense on the field? I can hear it now, "Teaching Weeden is what the coaches get paid for".
But the reality is, someone who has played the game and has a firm grasp of the offense is a very valuable thing to have on the sideline and will help a rookie QB develop faster especially in a complex offense.
So for some of the reasons I stated above, and for just the possibility of some of the reasons I stated above, I'm leaning towards Wallace. As far as a "playing back-up", I really don't see a whole lot of difference between he and Colt. Maybe some, but not that much.
For all of the problems keeping Colt may cause and my belief that he really can do little if anything to help Weedens progress, I lean towards Wallace.
But time will tell.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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This is why I don't have a problem with keeping Colt.. and its because he hasn't had one of those games where he just blew everyone away with his talent.. when a player has one of those games, THEN you start thinking "okay... but what if".
Its almost the same thing with Montario Hardesty.. He hasn't flashed greatness at all so if he is cut I could really care less.
Brady Quinn... He was a first round pick.. and he had ONE game where he had everyone like damn.. he can ball out... (Detroit game)
James Harrison.. He lit it up for a few games, and even got his jersey put in the HOF..
Those are the type of things that cause rifts with the media and fans.. Colt played average half the time, and the other half he was sub-par. If I were the FO, I'd sit down and be honest with him BEFORE they announce to the media who the starting QB is. "Colt.. you are the backup no matter what happens to Weeden.."
My logic may seem a little backwards in that "why keep a guy if he hasn't shown much", but thats how I feel.
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I don't have a problem with them if they decide to keep Colt.
But they may be asking themselves how much can Colt add to Weedens development verses a QB who knows this system and who has been in it for 10 years?
They may very well believe that there isn't all that much difference in "the play" of Wallace and Colt, but that Wallace can do a lot more to aid in the rapid development of weeden because he knows this system so well.
I don't know that, but I do think it's one issue that they would strongly consider.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm a million times more humble than you'll ever be.
As I've explained, I'm not humble...
It was a joke brother. Not sure what color jokes should be.
Oh, it was colored...a color called "obvious."
Sadly, that often is not sufficient.
FWIW, I got it as well.
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But they may be asking themselves how much can Colt add to Weedens development verses a QB who knows this system and who has been in it for 10 years?
How much did he help Colt? He probably made Colt worse.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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How much did he help Colt? He probably made Colt worse.
Well, we've heard it's the receivers' fault, the rb's fault, the OL's fault and the coach's fault that Colt couldn't produce. Might as well blame Wallace, too.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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How much did he help Colt? He probably made Colt worse.
You know, that has been addressed in this thread for anyone who actually read it. But I'll repeat it. LOL
He was competing with colt for the starting position. Combine that with the fact that last year was the Browns First season running the WCO
And I'm sorry, but Wallace couldn't make his arm stronger, couldn't make him lead the WR's better or help him to be able to make all of the throws you need to make in the WCO.
It's not Colts fault the NFL had a lock out before the season last year either. The reason they couldn't open the playbook up last year is because even the vanilla plays they were running couldn't be executed with any consistancy. I don't see how Wallace could have helped with that.
But that's okay, as has been mentioned, to some it's all Colts fault, and to some none of it's Colts fault.
I think this FO stood pretty much where I did. Based on what Colt could do and what he couldn't do, he isn't NFL starting QB material. I don't believe he was judged on what everybody else did or didn't do, but on what he did or didn't do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I really don't think that they care about, or necessarily want a player "helping with Weeden's development" .... especially after adding Chilldress and Cromwell to the offensive staff this year.
This front office/staff seem to follow the philosophy: "Players play and coaches coach".
I think that the decisions then comes down to which backup QB is better suited for backup duty? While some may disagree, Wallace has shown an ability to play with limited reps in practice as a backup in this system, and McCoy has not. Thus the coaches have to determine if McCoy will be able to make that adjustment. If they feel that he can, then he clears that hurdle towards remaining a Cleveland Brown. If not, then they will try to move him as soon as they can.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Wallace has shown an ability to play with limited reps in practice as a backup in this system, and McCoy has not
please explain. Colt had limited knowledge, experience and reps compared to Wallace going into last year, no? yet his numbers were better than Seneca's per game (yes, Seneca had to play a tough schedule):
Colt 57% 5.9YPA 1.1TD 0.8INT 210yd/game 74.6QBrating
Sen 51% 5.3YPA 0.7TD 0.7INT 183yd/game 65.4QBrating
Let's even out the schedule strength by only looking at each in divisional play. Both are terrible, but Colt still is slightly less terrible:
only Colt's divisional games 49% 5.3YPA 1.25TD 1.25INT 191yd/game
only Seneca's divisional games: 47% 4.3YPA 0.5TD 1 INT 162yd/game
same lifetime record but Colt is younger, cheaper and has the upside that he might actually get better as he learns the system - even if only marginally - (Seneca is not getting any better)
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