That's career totals of 76.4 ppg not including your 2 rookies... that's not going to get it done. Iriving and TT could both increase in their second year... Humphries averaged 10+ last year but that was his first year in double figures in about 10 seasons.... but there isn't a scoring option outside of Irving that scares anybody in that rotation... If Irving can average 20, we still need 2 other players to average in the low to mid teens... who is it going to be?
unfair to use career totals. especially for big men who usually struggle at first to find their way.
AV averaged 10.8pts/game (31min) last year K.Humph averaged 13.8pts/game (35min) last year
So, add their 10pts to get to 86 + Zeller + Waiters and you are right around where you need to be (plus I expect another PG + wing player to be signed/traded for before the season begins).
The issue is if we can score efficiently. Marshon Brooks is a scorer but he is inefficient (like Jamison was). We need efficient scorers. We'll see if we can be that type of team or not.
Quote: unfair to use career totals. especially for big men who usually struggle at first to find their way.
AV averaged 10.8pts/game (31min) last year K.Humph averaged 13.8pts/game (35min) last year
Kris Humphries had 8 years of 8 ppg or less, one year at 10 ppg and one year at 13.8 ppg... I could argue that using his career year ever is also probably not the best indicator. AV has been much more steady throughout his career.
But the fact remains that not many teams succeed into the playoffs without at least one scorer in the 20+ range and a couple more in the teens... We won't be successful with Irving scoring 20 and trying to get everybody else 8 or 9... we need a reliable second scoring option.
Quote: unfair to use career totals. especially for big men who usually struggle at first to find their way.
AV averaged 10.8pts/game (31min) last year K.Humph averaged 13.8pts/game (35min) last year
Kris Humphries had 8 years of 8 ppg or less, one year at 10 ppg and one year at 13.8 ppg... I could argue that using his career year ever is also probably not the best indicator. AV has been much more steady throughout his career.
But the fact remains that not many teams succeed into the playoffs without at least one scorer in the 20+ range and a couple more in the teens... We won't be successful with Irving scoring 20 and trying to get everybody else 8 or 9... we need a reliable second scoring option.
That's where Waiters comes in. I'm not saying he is going to, but I think that's what they're expecting. That's why they drafted him.
If Waiters can be a 15ppg guy who could one day go over 20, then everyone else falls into place (although I still think they need that third guy)
I think it's hilarious how many people have it out for Dan Gilbert. Crying hypocrite if he helps Dwight get to wherever he is going to end up anyway?
Where was all this support for fairness and anti-super teams from the national media when Lebron was whoring himself around in the first week of July 2010?
Double standard.
As someone said on twitter just now, if Cleveland does the trade, it's Dan Gilbert trying to spite Lebron. If they don't? He's just trying to spite the "super teams".
If this trade goes down, it's because the Cavs can add more resources to their team. Anything else that happens is everyone else's problem, just like it was our problem when the Cavs agreed to sign and trade Lebron.
Would anyone consider a 1st round pick for Marshon Brooks straight up?
I know that he plays the same spot as Waiters, but he's a pretty decent young SG, under contract for a few more years, and could be a nice addition. I don't know if he could slide to SF at all or not, but it sure seems like a lot of guys play between SF and SG. Can he hit an outside shot? Can he create his own shot? 12.6 PPG would be a pretty nice addition. A 3 man rotation of Waiters, Gee, and Brooks between SG and SF could be pretty nice.
*Edited to add* I never really paid a whole lot of attention to his game, but I have read some good stuff about him. Maybe someone who has actually paid attention to him could tell me if I'm on the right track regarding him, or if I'm way off base.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 07/10/1211:11 AM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: unfair to use career totals. especially for big men who usually struggle at first to find their way.
AV averaged 10.8pts/game (31min) last year K.Humph averaged 13.8pts/game (35min) last year
Kris Humphries had 8 years of 8 ppg or less, one year at 10 ppg and one year at 13.8 ppg... I could argue that using his career year ever is also probably not the best indicator. AV has been much more steady throughout his career.
But the fact remains that not many teams succeed into the playoffs without at least one scorer in the 20+ range and a couple more in the teens... We won't be successful with Irving scoring 20 and trying to get everybody else 8 or 9... we need a reliable second scoring option.
but he also wasn't getting consistent minutes. as Adam_P said, you have to use one of the per minute indicators. i prefer the 36min/game stat just because few big men go over that number (and you can see that both AV and Humphries came near it last year).
Humphries has averaged 14pts/36min-game in 6 of the last 7 years while also having a rebound rate over 10rb/36min-game in 6 of the 7 years as well.
Varejao has been pretty consistent in his 36min-game numbers at 11pts/11reb (with some variance on both) throughout his career (until last year's breakthrough playing the PnR w/ Irving)
Quote: Would anyone consider a 1st round pick for Marshon Brooks straight up?
I know that he plays the same spot as Waiters, but he's a pretty decent young SG, under contract for a few more years, and could be a nice addition. I don't know if he could slide to SF at all or not, but it sure seems like a lot of guys play between SF and SG. Can he hit an outside shot? Can he create his own shot? 12.6 PPG would be a pretty nice addition. A 3 man rotation of Waiters, Gee, and Brooks between SG and SF could be pretty nice.
*Edited to add* I never really paid a whole lot of attention to his game, but I have read some good stuff about him. Maybe someone who has actually paid attention to him could tell me if I'm on the right track regarding him, or if I'm way off base.
I think it's probably irrelevant now since he's probably not going to be traded to Cleveland but if it was true they had interest, maybe the thinking was that he could start, and Waiters could come off the bench where he was very comfortable. At least to start the season, you can always change things around but it would be a great way to take some of the pressure off and ease him into Scott's system.
I think he's too small to defend the 3 position for most teams, but you can also move Waiters over to the point, not something you want to do a ton, but he can handle the ball a bit. (Still with everyone else we have to fix the backup PG issue before TC)
in the "latest" version of the trade. never know which way it would spin back, so I wanted to make the point that he's not an efficient scorer and might actually be a detriment.
The Brooklyn Nets are searching for another team to facilitate a trade for Dwight Howard or are looking to push the deal to the finish line without Cleveland after the Cavaliers dropped out of consideration as a trading partner, league sources told CBSSports.com on Tuesday.
The Cavs, who were going to take Kris Humphries and other assets to maximize Orlando's cap savings, have been out of the mix since Monday, one person familiar with the negotiations said. It wasn't immediately clear whether it was the Cavs who decided not to involve themselves in the deal or Humphries' reluctance to accept a one-year guarantee in a sign-and-trade that stalled the multi-team arrangement.
A more likely scenario is that Orlando would prefer to receive all the draft picks exchanged in the trade, rather than having one of them go to Cleveland as compensation for taking Humphries, a person familiar with the talks said. Under the most recent construction of the trade, the Magic would receive three picks from the Nets and one from the Clippers, who would get MarShon Brooks from Brooklyn. By taking on Humphries in the deal, the Magic could wind up with five first-round picks -- the cornerstones of a ground-up rebuilding under new GM Rob Hennigan in the wake of Howard's departure.
The Nets, who already have assembled an All-Star backcourt of Deron Williams and Joe Johnson, are pushing forward with the deal while simultaneously negotiating an extension for center Brook Lopez, who would go to Orlando if the teams complete the trade.
The NBA's moratorium on player movement concludes at 12:01 a.m. ET Wednesday, applying time pressure to the negotiations since several players involved would need to change teams via sign-and-trades. The Clippers were standing by Tuesday waiting to hear if their services would be needed to complete the deal, which would create another super team in a major NBA market by pairing Howard with Williams, Johnson and Gerald Wallace.
If the trade ultimately goes through, Howard would become the ninth member of the 12-player 2008 U.S. Olympic team to play in New York, Los Angeles or Miami. Seven members of this summer's U.S. Olympic squad call one of those cities their NBA home.
The Magic have continued dialogue with other teams throughout the process, including the Lakers, Rockets and Hawks, sources said. The Magic at no point ruled out other trade options for Howard, but sources said the organization was coming to the realization that the Nets could offer them the strongest package of picks and cap relief to begin the rebuilding process.
Players and other assets were going in and out of various trade scenarios Monday as the discussions advanced to the point where the Nets and Magic were initiating medical reviews for Howard (back) and Lopez (foot), respectively. Pending a positive review of Lopez's foot injury by Orlando's medical staff, the Magic have grown comfortable with Lopez being the key veteran player coming back in a Howard trade, sources said. Lopez would command at least $10 million a year in a sign-and-trade as part of the deal.
In fact, over the weekend, another team expressed interest in Lopez and stood ready to offer a package of draft picks for him in the event Orlando didn't want him, league sources told CBSSports.com. That team "couldn't get in the game," one of the sources said, a strong indication that the Magic "weren't selling" Lopez in the deal.
In its most recent iteration with Cleveland involved, the mammoth trade proposal looked like this:
* The Nets would have gotten Howard, Jason Richardson (owed $18.6 million over the next three seasons) and Earl Clark from the Magic.
* The Magic would have gotten Lopez, Shelden Williams, Damion James, Armon Johnson and three first-round picks from the Nets, plus Luke Walton from Cleveland.
* Cleveland would have gotten Humphries in a sign-and-trade, Sundiata Gaines, a first-round pick and $3 million from the Nets, plus Quentin Richardson from the Magic.
A possible replacement for Cleveland as the third team to facilitate the deal, Charlotte, was "not in the mix," a league source said Tuesday. "They never were," said another.
The assortment of first-round picks, millions in cap relief and a 7-footer and legitimate NBA starter in Lopez has struck the organization as their best chance to move forward with a plan to build through the draft the way Hennigan's mentor, Sam Presti, did inOklahoma City.
Quote: Several league executives with knowledge of the negotiations believe the small-market Cavaliers had become sensitive to criticism they were contributing to the construction of another big-market super power.
With a championship already in hand and an offseason addition of Ray Allen already done, the Miami Heat are closing in on another major commitment. According to ESPN.com, Rashard Lewis is signing with the Heat.
He was also reportedly considering the Knicks and Hawks.
Lewis, 32, spent last season with the Wizards enduring one of his worst seasons as a professional. In 28 appearances with Washington, Lewis averaged only 7.8 points and 3.9 rebounds while shooting only 23.9 percent from 3. He dealt with knee issues for most of the season.
The deal would be for two years, with the second being a player option. All the Heat can offer is a veteran minimum salary, which would be for $1.35 million a year.
Lewis recently agreed to a $13.7 million buyout with the Hornets after he was traded to New Orleans. That large sum likely aided in him taking a paycut to sign for the minimum with the Heat.
One impact it could have is the Lewis signing potentially take the Heat out of the Grant Hill running.
Is he a game-changing player? No, but in terms of a low cost veteran off the bench, he's certainly a quality addition. The Heat are able to grab discounts from players and as Ray Allen showed and now Lewis after him, taking less to compete for a trophy is very intriguing to veterans.
Lewis is a rangy 6-10 shooter that is a career 38.8 percent 3-point shooter. And as everyone saw in the NBA Finals, having 3-point marksmen on the perimeter makes Miami an extremely difficult team to guard. Plus, Erik Spoelstra has expressed a desire to remain with a smaller lineup on the floor and Lewis adds to that versatility. He can stretch between two, and even three positions depending on matchups.
The question is his health and how he can hold up after playing for 14 NBA seasons. But he's likely to be as motivated as ever latching on to the Miami bandwagon
Quote: Several league executives with knowledge of the negotiations believe the small-market Cavaliers had become sensitive to criticism they were contributing to the construction of another big-market super power.
hope that is not true. Gilbert needs to keep his hands out of the basketball-ops except to say "yes" when Grant needs more $$.
Grant has to be able to construct the team to the best of his ability given the constraints of the system. Any extra obstacles (in this case political) just mkae his job that much more difficult.
Eh, Lewis and Allen will play the role that Miller played this past season, including being injured all the time. It's funny that Ray Allen didn't re-sign with Boston because he was upset about coming off the bench, as I'm sure in Miami he'll be the starting SG ahead of DWade.
Thought that I'd add a wrap-up to this whole couple of days worth of trade/non-trade activity .......
And Boyer makes a lot of sense here .... and with some of the potential deals reported, it's hard to argue any real side ..... because there were some potential deals that sounded OK, and others that sounded horrible for the Cavaliers.
LAS VEGAS -- So the Cavaliers reportedly are out of the Dwight Howard sweepstakes.
The Cavs, as is their custom, will not confirm the latest reports on Tuesday that they will not be part of a multi-player, multi-team trade that would have brought power forward Kris Humphries from the Brooklyn Nets and allowed Howard to get his wish and play in Brooklyn.
Of course, the Cavs never actually confirmed that they were part of the talks in the first place.
Unlike many of his colleagues, that is how General Manager Chris Grant prefers to do business -- behind the scenes.
Because it takes two -- or in this case, three or four or more -- teams to make any deal, when the Cavs are involved confirmation comes from the other teams or the agents or, sometimes, the players involved. It's an organization-wide mandate.
When point guard Kyrie Irving met with reporters after playing on the U.S. Select Team that is practicing against the U.S. men's Olympic basketball team at UNLV, he acknowledged that he'd heard all the trade rumors the past few days and spent some time here with Grant and coach Byron Scott.
Asked what he thought would happen with the trade, Irving said, "Honestly, I'm not sure." Then he smiled and added, "You knew that answer was coming. We'll just wait and see."
The Cavs have apparently passed on the proposed deal that, according to Yahoo Sports, had Howard, Jason Richardson and Earl Clark going to Brooklyn, and Brooklyn's Brook Lopez, Damion James, Shelden Williams and Armon Johnson, Cleveland's Luke Walton and three future first-round picks going to Orlando. Cleveland would have received Orlando's Quentin Richardson, Brooklyn's Sundiata Gaines, Humphries (on a one-year guaranteed deal), a first-round pick and $3 million from the Nets.
Brooklyn also was talking to the Los Angeles Clippers about sending MarShon Brooks there for an additional first-round pick to send to the Magic.
It was never clear whether Humphries would accept a one-year deal -- his agent, Dan Fegan, told SI.com he would not -- but it was clear the Cavs were not interested in signing him long term, which would use up a lot of their valuable cap room.
Besides, if the Cavs wanted Humphries, because he's an unrestricted free agent, they could have just made him an offer and skipped all the additional baggage, though since Fegan also represents Dwight Howard, there's probably more in play here.
It also was never clear exactly where the first-round draft pick was coming from, either. As much as Grant covets first-round picks, there is a price to pay for acquiring them and, eventually, the Cavs just decided this price was too high.
Moving Walton, who will make nearly $6 million next season, made sense since it's clear the 32-year-old doesn't fit into the team's rebuilding plans. That $6 million, plus the $3 million from the Nets, would have covered the $9 million needed to pay Humphries, so the Cavs would have essentially gotten a good player -- and a possible trading chip -- for free.
But, in the end, the Cavs just decided this deal would not significantly improve their team or their assets enough to justify compromising the flexibility they've worked so hard to achieve.
Some fans are outraged. They wanted a deal. They wanted a move, any move, from a team that has been silent while other teams are making noise in the free-agent market. They wanted Humphries in the starting lineup as an improvement over young Tristan Thompson.
They wanted the extra draft pick, which could have given them as many as four in the first round next year, if Sacramento makes the playoffs.
Grant and his team were taking a beating on Twitter after the news broke that they were pulling out of the deal. Some reporters said other general managers thought the Cavs were difficult to work with. Some thought the team was stung by the criticism of taking part in creating another super-team when the Cavs suffered so after LeBron James left for Miami with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.
Ironically, at least one report earlier suggested the Cavs wanted to help create another super-team to challenge the Heat as revenge for James leaving.
Because he is not inclined to explain himself in these situations, Grant leaves himself open to such interpretations. But what fans should keep in mind is that Grant has positioned the Cavs so they're in the running to make these kind of deals, and he will make one when he feels it's the right one.
Clearly, this was not that deal -- even if he won't say so.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Clips are stupid to pay Blake damn near 20 mil a year.
This is going to be a contract that the Clips are going to want to trade but can't. This is going to be a cap killer.
I don't believe Blake is a HOF talent. Not to mention, he's dirt defensively. The guy is a high flyer and a rebounder. He dunks over everybody and rebounds almost everything that comes his way. But, he doesn't scare anybody outside of the paint and he has God awful defense. He reminds me A LOT of Antonio McDyess, and unless he can develop a mid range jumper like Dyess did, he will be a player that they will want to trade but can't.
Quote: So you don't want to sign Blake Griffin, a guy who is as good on the court as he off the court, to a max deal? Who does get a max deal if he doesn't?
Guys like Dwight, LBJ, Kobe and Wade, future HOFs that are the complete package
For as talented as Howard is, I'd be afraid to give him a max deal. He's so screwy mentally and emotionally that God only knows what you'll get with him 2 years from now. There is no doubting his physical talent ..... but his head seems to be a mess. So far he's been productive despite this, but into the future ..... once he gets the enormous money ......... who knows?
Then there is the question of: What happens if the Nets go a different direction, and cannot sign Howard? Where does he go then? How does he play if his preferred spot is cut off for good?
I'd almost certainly wind up giving him a max deal if I ran a team ..... but I'd be holding my breath, hoping that he doesn't go stupid on me like he did on the Magic.
I'd also have given Blake Griffin a max deal. A young guy who can be counted on for 20+/10+ is definitely valuable. Add in that he's a great team guy as well, and it's as close to a no brainer as I think you can find.
I'd probably agonize more over giving Howard the huge deal, despite him having more pure talent and size at a position that's hard to fill.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
His team can't even leave him on the floor at the end of a close game. I don't call that a complete player.
I don't know the official "tools" of the NBA, if there are 4, 5, or more (Mid-range Shooting, At-the-rim shooting, Free throw shooting, 3-pt shooting, passing, rebounding, blocks, defensive pressure, etc.)....but Dwight gets most of them except free throw shooting (and obviously three's too)..
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
According to Basketball Reference Howard has made $83 million in his career and it hasn't affected his play. I think the recent stuff he has been going through is more a result of him wanting to please everyone. He has handled this whole situation worse than anyone could have imagined.
Say what you want about Howard off the court, but he has been always been on of the best on the court. Even this past season when he had the drama going on with Van Gundy.
Yeah, that's all true .... and like I said, if I had to make that decision, I would almost certainly give him the max deal without too much thought.
However, this crap he's pulled recently would be lurking in the back of my mind .....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Problem with Dwight is that his game is all God-given athleticism. Very little skill, very little basketball IQ. And when the athleticism starts to go, he's done. Who knows if this recent injury is an isolated thing or a sign of what's to come.
He's a good passer for a big man, but he doesn't have a ton of range, but he will probably get by through his career on bullying alone, just like Shaq did.
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