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Quote:
Also...
Two teams I like to exceed expectations:
Texans
Buccaneers
Two teams to regress:
Steelers
Seahawks
Seahawks? Regress? We were 7-9! Either way, the NFC West is getting better in a hurry. 
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Tough schedule says win total will be low, but I think year 2 in the offense, an offseason this year, and a few new players equate to a couple more wins. I think it will be a 6-10 season, but wouldn't be surprised with as bad as 4-12 or as good as 8-8...
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2nd String
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I think we will get 2 wins(Colts and Redskins).
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Quote:
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5 or less, Shurmur should be gone and we should explore if it was a coaching failure or if it's a design flaw.
How do you say in the same sentence Shurmur should be gone, then say to explore whether it's a coaching failure or design flaw?
Because no matter what, if this team wins less than 6 games, then the head coach should be gone.
I guess I should have said it would be to decide if it was a sole coaching failure, or if it was also a design flaw. Whatever, I wrote that while tired, give a man a break! 
you had a good run Hank.
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If we win 5 games, but we are competitive and start developing a reputation as a team that other teams are leery of, I hope fans can look past the record and let the organization continue to build this thing up.
Blowing it up again is going to be catastrophic to this franchise.
And even if we don't blow it up and just promote from within, I still think it sets this franchise back. And I have a gut feeling that Shurmur is a better leader than Chilli. I think his long-term prospects as a coach are better.
Of course, if Shurmur looks like a complete buffoon, then I'll lead the lynch mob. I just don't think that is going to happen.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
If we win 5 games, but we are competitive and start developing a reputation as a team that other teams are leery of, I hope fans can look past the record and let the organization continue to build this thing up.
Blowing it up again is going to be catastrophic to this franchise.
And even if we don't blow it up and just promote from within, I still think it sets this franchise back. And I have a gut feeling that Shurmur is a better leader than Chilli. I think his long-term prospects as a coach are better.
Of course, if Shurmur looks like a complete buffoon, then I'll lead the lynch mob. I just don't think that is going to happen.
I agree ... we are still in the rebuilding process and we have yet to see a finished product with past regimes.
I don't think there was a rhyme or reason / method to their madness that we had to bare witness to.
It all starts with improving our talent base and having a committed plan.
Build your roster and the wins will come.
No system or Coaching technique ( Mangini) will be enough to overcome a lack of talent if your opponents (*DIV) are clearly superior to you in way of talent and playmakers.
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I expect no less than 8 wins and will be disappointed with anything less.
I believe that we won't win more than 4.
About right !
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Quote:
Quote:
Also...
Two teams I like to exceed expectations:
Texans
Buccaneers
Two teams to regress:
Steelers
Seahawks
Seahawks? Regress? We were 7-9! Either way, the NFC West is getting better in a hurry.
I agree. The NFC West is getting better in a hurry. And the Seahags? Not so much. Lynch is going into his 7th season, he runs like an animal and RBs that run that way don't last as long as others. There's a chance he goes into steep decline quick. May not be this year but it's going to happen before he's 30 for sure.
Matt Flynn? Really?
Sidney Rice? The guy is more fragile than a faberge egg.
Kellen Winslow is a shadow of his shadow and good luck running behind him when he's inline.
I will say you have the best young DBs in the league. Love your secondary. One of the best in the NFL.
But teams can and will run it down your throat. Your front 7 is terrible.
Finally you have Pete Carroll as your coach. Good luck with that. 
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Blowing it up again is going to be catastrophic to this franchise.
You are right. That's why if Shurmer bombs out ths year, a simple shift moving the OC up to the HC position would mean you don't really have to blow up anything.
Jauron would run the same D and Childress would be running the exact same O he will be teaching them this year.
Relatively seamless move......
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And even if we don't blow it up and just promote from within, I still think it sets this franchise back. And I have a gut feeling that Shurmur is a better leader than Chilli. I think his long-term prospects as a coach are better.
I would simply have to ask you what you base that opinion on?
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Of course, if Shurmur looks like a complete buffoon, then I'll lead the lynch mob. I just don't think that is going to happen.
A complte bafoon? Or just a bafoon?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I don't have any tangible evidence to support Shurmur being a better leader than Childress ... hence, the "gut feeling" categorization.
But here are some things I like about Shurmur that may or may not apply to Childress:
1. I prefer the quiet, even keeled leader to an "in your face" or "rah-rah" type of guy. I like Shurmur's demeanor. I think players respect a guy that keeps his emotions in balance.
2. Shurmur is still young and still growing into the job. He's not a finished product. There is still time for him to be a very good coach (or a very bad one).
3. Sticking with the "young" theme, I'd love to find our coach for the next 10-15 years. Shurmur's age would allow that.
4. I don't recall any time last year where I felt he was completely outclassed on the sideline. I'm sure there were moments that I'm not remembering, but in terms of TOs, challenges, decisions to go for it or not, I don't remember ever being completely dumbfounded. Now, I thought his "O" was complete garbage. I'm hoping Childress helps in that regard.
As for Childress:
1. I recall reading some pretty unflattering articles about his time in Minnesota and his coaching style ... very military-like.
2. His work on Major Dad was subpar.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
4. I don't recall any time last year where I felt he was completely outclassed on the sideline. I'm sure there were moments that I'm not remembering
The Bengals pass to AJ Green to win Game 1 was horrific. Facepalm nearly on par with Dwayne Rudd's helmet launch.
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2. His work on Major Dad was subpar.
How dare you! 
I'm going to cut and paste something that I wrote previously:
Pat Shurmur
Starting Center for Michigan State, 3 years, 4.0 GPA, Co-Captain his Senior Year
23 years of coaching experience
12 years of NFL coaching experience
Offensive Coordinator for St. Louis Rams - Bradford threw for the second most yards in rookie history in 2010
QB Coach with Philadelphia Eagles from 1999-2008
His background and history portend well.
Basically I think he's a high character guy, with a quality background, well steeped in the WCO.
I have a feeling that they could only install the most basic elements of the offense due to the inexperience of the WRs and QB. Add to that zero training camp / offseason.
I think he's smart. He seems like an honest chap. He's the kind of coach that I respected as a player.
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Give any chef old lettuce, smelly fish, spoiled milk and stale bread and ask him to make a gourmet meal and you will be disappointed.
Give that same chef some fresh ingredients and a good sous chef and then you'll find out what he can do.
if the food still stinks, you got a bad chef..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Don't forget about giving that chefs only 10 minutes to prepare the ingredients as well.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Bravo 
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Quote:
his coaching style ... very military-like.
I think that there is a pretty wide spectrum when it comes to using the
term. "Military like".
Military Leaders ... There are good ones and bad ones. The point is that not all are the Sergeant Carter in your face types. The best ones are like you said more evenly keeled and know how to get the best out of their men.
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Don't forget about giving that chefs only 10 minutes to prepare the ingredients as well.
Great googly moogly! Oh, wait, wrong context. How long till camp starts?
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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No offense intended on that. I come from a military family myself.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
I have a feeling that they could only install the most basic elements of the offense due to the inexperience of the WRs and QB. Add to that zero training camp / offseason.
Every time I read that EXCUSE I think we aren't talking about sending a man to the moon, this IS NOT rocket science. Sure the play list has to be reduced. But you do the simple stuff you hit on the details and you teach the details, and you come out the other side looking like a good teacher, you go out and cram everything you can into some one without getting one part right then moving onto the next and the next all the while not revisiting where you started from you look like we did last year..
Shurmur is a twit. He writes everything down including what he is going to do on each day. Ya got to be flexable in everything you do when your dealing with people, people aren't paper sometimes you have to slow down and work on some things more then others. A good coach knows this and adapts they don't function based on something written down on paper. The idea is STUPID.
At NO point during the season when I watched this offense did I have any confidence in Shurmur nothing looked right.
I like this little thing. Most teams go from week to week and install there game plan which will include a list of plays that they want to start the game with. Those plays are gone over in training camp and OTA's, but aren't used on a weekly base therefore when they are to be used because the coach see's an advantage they revisit and re learn the plays. I never saw a more lost offense at least Dumball could call a good 1st half, I never saw a good 1st half all season with this team. And sorry to say I think that ALL falls squarely on Shurmur, he is an idiot.....
Thats why Chilly is here by mid point of the season Holmy knew Shurmur was in WAY WAY over his head...
Then we come to the comment someone made about him never looking lost. You simply weren't payinmg attention. Repeatedly he looked to Jauron for advise on when to take TO, and to except or decline penalties. It was maddeening.
It's JMHO but I don't think this team will never find success with Poor Pat.
LETS HOPE I'M WRONG......
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Actually, I agree with you Bone. I think Shurmer is a inferior coach, if nothing more than he looks like a rat, and I don't trust people who look like rats.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I get what type of coach "you like", but it has been shown and tested that neither type has the market cornered. Both will work. And military style? Lombardi and Couphlin. At 56 I think you can easily get 10 years out of Childress. And the last time I saw the old "gut feeling" followed was with Butch Davis. I wished someone had bought him some Alka Seltzer.  Like I said before, I certainly hope the best for Shurmer. The quicker things get turned around here the happier I will be. I just saw nothing that exuded faith from me it will happen under Shurmer. It was his first year as HC so he certainly has room to grow. The thing is, will he grow fast enough for Holmgren to fullfill his promise to have a playoff caliber team in year five? If not, will Holmgren be willing to go down in a sinking ship with Shurmer? I'm thinking not.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
No offense intended on that. I come from a military family myself.
No offense taken ... I just wanted to elaborate on that before some poster took that ball and ran with it.
Head them off at the pass if you will.
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Looks great on paper Held but then again so has almost every HC that has been brought in here so far. Example.......... Quote:
Head Coach
Chris Palmer
Pro Career
Named head coach of Browns on January 21, 1999, coming to Cleveland from Jacksonville where he served as offensive coordinator and helped guide the Jaguars to the playoffs in each of the last two seasons.
Jacksonville captured the AFC Central Division title with an 11-5 regular season record in 1998 and defeated New England 25-10 in an AFC Wild Card Game. Jacksonville posted an identical 11-5 record in 1997 before losing at eventual Super Bowl XXXII champion Denver in a Wild Card Game.
Palmer coached with the New England Patriots from 1993-96. He coached the team's wide receivers from 1993-95 and was the quarterbacks coach in 1996 when the Patriots captured the AFC Championship and earned a berth in Super Bowl XXXI.
Palmer served as wide receivers coach for the Houston Oilers from 1990-92 and helped Houston lead the NFL in passing offesne each season. Palmer was the offensive line coach for the Canadian Football League's Montreal Concordes in 1983 and served as receivers coach in 1984 and quarterback coah/offensive coordinator in 1985 for the United States Football League's New Jersey Generals.
Background
Palmer was a Quarterback at Southern Connecticut State from 1968-1971. He has had zero pro playing experience. He began coaching career as assistant coaching the defensive line and wide receivers at Connecticut from 1972-74. He was the Wide receivers coach at Lehigh in 1975. Offensive coordinator at Colgate from 1976-1982. He was the Head coach at New Haven in 1986-87 and posted consecutive 8-2 marks. He was the Head coach at Boston University in 1988-89. His career college head coaching record: 24-18.
Personal
Born September 23, 1949, Mt. Kisco, N.Y. Received bachelor's and master's degrees from Southern Connecticut State. Chris and his wife, Donna, reside in Cleveland. They have a son, Mark and a daughter, Kristin.
Like I said before....The question becomes if Shurmer doesn't right the ship quickly, will Holmgren be willing to sink with him?
At some point Holmgren must do something or end up hitting the street after year five with one huge black mark on his legacy and somehow I just don't see that happening....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Philly - thankfully a home game, but doubt we win... Philly should have been a playoff team and vastly underachieved last year... I see them coming out and wanting to start the season off right.... maybe a win but I doubt it
@Bengals - because it's the Bengals I'll say 50/50... hoepfully they'll regress this year, but they are youngg and looked really good last year.
Bills - started off great last year and then fizzled.... hoping they don't start off great - I expect a win
@Raven - hate the ravens... but they are tough at their house... expect a loss
@Giants - we've had a good history of beating SB champs... so hears hoping we keep the trend... it'd be the 4th year in a row we've beating the champs (I think)
Bengals - expect to win at home
@Colts - expect to win... should be better on offense, but we still should win this
Chargers - thankfully a home game against a team traveling across country - I expect to win this though their offense is still pretty good
Ravens - hope to win at home...
@Cowboys - coming off a bye could really help... but I think the Cowboys will be very good this year... if their coach can figure out how to coach and not worry about Jerry they should be great... their defense really seem to have plugged the holes they had last year... even with the bye I doubt we win
Steelers - I expect to win at home....
@Raiders - I say 50/50 - they have been improving over the last two years, and at their place... should be a tough game
Chiefs - RAC is Back! Chiefs played inspired for RAC last year... if they keep it up they could have a good year, I'm hoping they don't. I expect to win this
Skins - Shuld be interesting with RG3... they should have a pretty decent offense by this point... should be a good game to watch
@Broncos - expect to lose this...
@Steelers - doubt we win this one unless Steelers already have homefield and are not playing their top guys
I dunno - maybe 7 wins?
<><
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The Browns will end the 2012 season with 3 wins maximum. I suspect it's about 2, maybe only a single win. If they matched last years total and win 4 games, I'll be shocked.
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Actually, I agree with you Bone. I think Shurmer is a inferior coach, if nothing more than he looks like a rat, and I don't trust people who look like rats.
"If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it is a rat."
-Terrell Owens
Hail to Pitt!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
Actually, I agree with you Bone. I think Shurmer is a inferior coach, if nothing more than he looks like a rat, and I don't trust people who look like rats.
"If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, by golly, it is a rat."
-Terrell Owens
Hmm .... Terrell Owens ..... broke and friendless after a long and high paying career in the NFL ......... and had to be threatened with jail time in order to force him into paying his child support.
Owens must look and smell a lot.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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5-7 wins
I thnk our defense will get more of a breather this year. I don't bye we were down late stat stuff. Our defense is solid... The offense put a lot of pressure on the D last year. Hopefully with a solid run game and a right tackle we can alleviate some of that. Whether Weeden "gets it" or not, I think he smart enough and can manage the offense well enough already. Never said he wasn't a smart guy... Just don't think he's "the guy". Better than colt? We will see.
If we only win 3-4 I still say stick with the plan and same coaches. Nothing will ever get better if u keep changing leadership every 2-3 years aand starting over.
I'm tired of the etch-a-sketch routine we have w coaches.
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I agree with the last part of your post. It is time to commit to this front office/coach and give them time to actually work their way through a plan. Blowing things up every 2-3 years gets us nowhere.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't bye we were down late stat stuff. Our defense is solid... The offense put a lot of pressure on the D last year.
We were ranked 30th against the run. Opposing offenses were just as responsible for keeping us on the field as our own offense was. Teams didn't pass against us because they didn't have to.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Yep.
I broke it down once, and in most games, teams would pass against us in the first half, and maybe the opening drive of the 2nd half. Then they would shut it down. They played it very safe, preferring to throw the ball away rather than take anything resembling a chance with it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Right so now that, I hope/believe, we will have a running game and can control ball possession better. Our run defense numbers should be better. Pass numbers may go up some...but I still think we will have another top 10 defense again this year.
Prediction: our rushing stats will be top 15 at end of year and pass def top 10 still
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First lets talk about wins. I think the browns are a better team this year then last year but have a tough schedule and will probably only see 5 wins. this team is definately still rebuilding and lets be honest......even if our coach looks like a total buffoon how many head coaches out there would want to come to Cleveland. There are not many due to the reputation of two or three years and done. I think Cleveland is in a corner where they may need to ride Shurmer out and see where we go.......or at least hold on to him for 3 more years and see where we are.
JMO
Go Browns ! ! !
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how many head coaches out there would want to come to Cleveland.
Two of them are currently on our staff.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
how many head coaches out there would want to come to Cleveland.
Two of them are currently on our staff.
Three of them are and 4 if you count Holmgren.
Rhodes
Jauron
Childress
All been head coaches.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't believe in the SOS factor. Teams that were great one year, often fall flat the next or at least drop a notch or two. Some that were terrible last year have jumped up to be contenders the next season.
SOS means nothing to me.
To say nothing of injuries as the season progresses . . .
___________
I can rationalize a good five wins; all things being equal right now. There are a few games that we could win depending on the condition of the teams at the time of playing them, but I will say FIVE. (that is the minimum that I think is acceptable--to use that term loosely.)
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I don't really care about the number if we aren't making the playoffs, I just need to see better play inside the AFCN. Getting swept or going 1-5 is unacceptable. I don't care if it's the best division in football.
We also need to play better at home. Fans leave early and the atmosphere blows because this team runs out of the tunnel all fired up and then nothing.
If we aren't talking about playoffs then the most important thing is the eye test. I want to see growth.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
I expect that we'll start slowly and get better as the season progresses (barring significant injuries, of course). That said, we're going to be a very young team and we're going blow more opportunities to win than not. Anything 8-8 or better would be a stunner, IMO. Unfortunately, I think we're looking at only 5-6 wins. I'm hopeful, however, that we'll be a more exciting team to watch by the end of the season and that we won't have that feeling of inevitability that we have no shot to win the instant we're more than two scores down. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
Quote:
I don't really care about the number if we aren't making the playoffs, I just need to see better play inside the AFCN. Getting swept or going 1-5 is unacceptable. I don't care if it's the best division in football.
We also need to play better at home. Fans leave early and the atmosphere blows because this team runs out of the tunnel all fired up and then nothing.
If we aren't talking about playoffs then the most important thing is the eye test. I want to see growth.
Agree 100%.
Good post.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,554
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,554 |
Everyone's predictions are based upon last year's team but we have now replaced all of our glaring weaknesses. This team at least on offense looks nothing like last years team.
Small, mobile, weak arm, cautious inaccurate has been replaed by a big, strong armed, pocket passing risk taker that can thread the needle.
Big plodding power back whose only moves consisted of running over or jumping over defenders replaced by smaller power back with great balance, decent speed and nimble feet. We do however go from fantastic hands to pretty good hands.
Pashos was to slow and injured to move and we replaced him with a guy with a similar mean streak, power but also with better pass protection and mobility.
This time last year Robo and Mo were our starting receivers with Little and Cribbs competing for slot receiver duty. This year I would bet coming opening day our top 2 guys are probably Little, Gordon with Norwood, Benjamin and Mo fighting for the #3 role.
Rookie backs can play at the highest level right away. Rookie QBs thanks to the new defensive rules can have immediate success if they are accurate passers. Rookie receivers who are the big physical types have immediate success. Rookie RTs that have the tremendous power transfer very well, it is the lightweight nimble guys that usually struggle early.
Based on last year 3-5 wins but this is a new team and we just don't know how quickly this group can come together but Heckert and Holmgren believe they have something special. You can see it everytime they are asked about this team.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 218
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 218 |
I'm not as concerned as wins this year as I'd rather like to see progress continue.
With a young team on Offense, I'd like to see the team grow together and take shots, play aggressive and show potential to turn into a stellar offense. Anything would be better then last season when 17 Points was considered an exciting game from the offense.
On defense, I'd like to see the young players fit into with what the defense has going on, get better at stopping the run and hopefully prove that their pass defense ranking was not overrated.
I believe if the Browns do this and win 6-7 games, I'd be ecstatic. The 2013 year is the year that makes or breaks this F/O. We should be able to follow a very similar path, that of the Detroit Lions did from 2009-2011.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Let's talk wins and losses...
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