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but I think an owner who WANTS to be here, who wants to run the team , and wants to take a large interest in the team is needed.
who wants to run the team
No No No No. I do not want an owner who wants to run the team!!!!!
I'm not talking like a Jerry Jones.
I'm saying someone who wants to be in the building every day.
you had a good run Hank.
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Practice Squad
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Well it is no surprise that Lerner wants out. He and the Lerner family have taken a lot of criticism over the years from some of the fans and some of the media here. I've always thought he was a pretty good owner, who has unfortunately made some poor hiring choices over the years. He was always willing to spend the money to put a good team together and spend the money to put in a good management team. He also let the football people do their jobs. Will we get that in a new owner? I hope so. Lerner's downfall was some of his hiring choices.
Frankly I will not be be sorry to see Holmgren and his crew leave town if they are fired. I've been highly suspect of them since the start. I don't see how people see any sort of stability in our team. We just came off a terrible 4-12 season with horrible coaching and an absolutely awful offense. Sure we have a bunch of new younger guys now and a new OC but I don't feel any sort of stability here and I can easily see us facing another lousy year of football.
It looks like a new chapter for us. As long as the Browns never leave Cleveland because of this, I'm pretty indifferent to the change. I just hope we don't end up with a Mike Brown or Jerry Jones type owner.... or the Dolans.
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People wondered why we stocked up on experienced, "NFL ready" type players on offense, then took a shot at Gordon in the Supplemental Draft.
Perhaps now we know why.
Heckert knows that this is the year that this team needs to show major improvement, or he could be swept out once the sale of the team is completed. The only thing that really surprises me is that we didn't load up a bit more on free agents in order to jump start the process even faster.
I think that we are in "Win now, because next year could be too late" mode.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Or he is doing what he said he would do...building through the draft. There doesn't have to be ulterior motives.
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Perhaps ...... but it sure fits.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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What is the point, and value, in having an owner in the building every day if he is paying people to run the organization for him?
Do you think that his other businesses falter because he isn't visiting their offices daily?
The way it works is you hire someone capable to run the business, then you keep tabs on it. That doesn't require you to be in the office, ever.
What you want is a showpiece. Something that has absolutely no value or point to make you feel better about what is happening when you look in from the outside.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Randy Lerner has confirmed he is in negotiations to sell the Cleveland Browns to Jimmy Haslam, a Knoxville, Tn.-based businessman who is a minority partner in the Pittsburgh Steelers.
I will say now what I've said for years:
God bless Randy Lerner and his efforts in trying to make the Browns a winner. He's spent millions of dollars on people who are no longer with the organization for the sole purpose of trying to find winners to help the team make a turnaround. He's never skimped on paying players, coaches, or executives, and never went "on the cheap" at any point in time. For that I'd thank him. However, he's been an abysmal failure as a team owner in terms of putting the right people in place, and because of that, it won't hurt my feelings to see the ownership turned over to someone else.
Lerner is a fantastic businessman but has never had a clue how to put the correct football people in place. He failed, but not for a lack of desire or effort.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Ugggh, I'm at home w a viral infection w instructions to head to the ER if I get a headache....
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and I'm pointing out that no matter what, what was said is obviously not true... so what reason is there to put any stock at all into what is said now?
Ok, there's the part where team execs would - quite literally - get shot if they tried to move the team again, but beyond that, I see no reason to believe them.
Well in this case I think that there is certainly smoke ... I fully agree with the part about knowing what to believe after we have been told to believe that it was nothing more then a rumor. Quite frankly I'm a little bit in shock at the moment.
Why make this announcement now with all of this time before the 10 year moratorium on ownership of the team is lifted in October?
I think that we are being given the "heads up" before the fact here.
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Why make this announcement now with all of this time before the 10 year moratorium on ownership of the team is lifted in October?
I think that we are being given the "heads up" before the fact here.
or, it's a market test.
Leak the news to see how the fan base reacts and see how welcoming they may, or may not, be to the idea of a change in ownership.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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No it doesn't fit at all. You are reaching at best.
If he was trying to win this season because he knew this was going down he would have made made a bigger effort to sign free agents. We signed what, two free agents?
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My guess is that Holmgren is out, to be replaced by Banner.
and the changes will trickle down from there....
tear down, rebuild.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
We *finally* have stability at every level of the organization... so, what do we do? We change it all at the very, very top so it can roll all the way back down.
Well done, Browns. Well done.
Gotta love this crap sandwich that we root for.
I see no stability. I see a team President who has failed so far in his tenure. That President kept Mangini, which was a failed move. He then fired Mangini, then proceeded to switch offensive AND defensive philosophies. We currently rank at or near the very bottom of the NFL in terms of overall talent in spite of the fact we've had a silly number of high draft picks, and we've handed the keys to the offense to a 29-year old rookie, and are asking him to do something that nobody in history has attempted.
Stability? I don't see stability, Purp. When the team President allows others to do their jobs right up until the point where he chooses to step in and throw his weight around, well, that's not the definition of stable. That's a slippery slope that ends more often in failure.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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People wondered why we stocked up on experienced, "NFL ready" type players on offense, then took a shot at Gordon in the Supplemental Draft.
Perhaps now we know why.
Heckert knows that this is the year that this team needs to show major improvement, or he could be swept out once the sale of the team is completed. The only thing that really surprises me is that we didn't load up a bit more on free agents in order to jump start the process even faster.
I think that we are in "Win now, because next year could be too late" mode.
I think that prudent business in the way a GM sets the team up for a stable future is just as important as how he drafts and It would also be going against Heckert's beliefs on how to build a team/roster, so I'm not surprised that if he had knowledge of any impending sale he would still not go all Snyder like during FA.
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Grossi just had to bring up moving to L.A.
dont get me started on him...
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Legend
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Randy Lerner has confirmed he is in negotiations to sell the Cleveland Browns to Jimmy Haslam, a Knoxville, Tn.-based businessman who is a minority partner in the Pittsburgh Steelers.
I will say now what I've said for years:
However, he's been an abysmal failure as a team owner in terms of putting the right people in place....
... has never had a clue how to put the correct football people in place. He failed, but not for a lack of desire or effort.
Craptastic and unfair statements, at best. Screw that - you're full of crap.
The man, I'd say, has way more clue than you, me, or 99% or the rest of the world.
He's been advised by several owners in the league on this very topic a number of times. He was good enough to know that he isn't the man to make the football decisions and sought answers and guidance on how others put things together. He tried to follow Kraft's model to the extent of hiring Bellichick disciples, and by bringing in a rising star in the Personnel world. Those people failed him. He tried one more Bellichick disciple before making the move to fully relegate himself to the background by bringing in a new guy to take us into a new direction. That's it; and the jury is still very much out on this latest move.
The simple fact is this: It is the NFL - the pool to pull from at this level is VERY, VERY small. For the very best of th best out there, it is absolutely hit or miss on any given day as to whether or not the people you hire will pan out.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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My guess is that Holmgren is out, to be replaced by Banner.
and the changes will trickle down from there....
tear down, rebuild.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
We *finally* have stability at every level of the organization... so, what do we do? We change it all at the very, very top so it can roll all the way back down.
Well done, Browns. Well done.
Gotta love this crap sandwich that we root for.
I see no stability. I see a team President who has failed so far in his tenure. That President kept Mangini, which was a failed move. He then fired Mangini, then proceeded to switch offensive AND defensive philosophies. We currently rank at or near the very bottom of the NFL in terms of overall talent in spite of the fact we've had a silly number of high draft picks, and we've handed the keys to the offense to a 29-year old rookie, and are asking him to do something that nobody in history has attempted.
Stability? I don't see stability, Purp. When the team President allows others to do their jobs right up until the point where he chooses to step in and throw his weight around, well, that's not the definition of stable. That's a slippery slope that ends more often in failure.
You have an organization top to bottom that works together and is on the same page. The Mangini thing was stupid, but it was Holmgren bowing to public pressure.... not unforgivable for a guy in his first year in a new position. Last year was Year One of a tear down and rebuild.
The rest of your diatribe is tripe.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Why make this announcement now with all of this time before the 10 year moratorium on ownership of the team is lifted in October?
I think that we are being given the "heads up" before the fact here.
or, it's a market test.
Leak the news to see how the fan base reacts and see how welcoming they may, or may not, be to the idea of a change in ownership.
Seems an awfully drastic one from where I sit ... if it's just a test that is.
Right now I need a good dose of training camp news to take my mind off of this subject
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Actually, not really.
if your negoatiations are at the point where you've already hammered the tough parts out, then the last big step is will the fans go along with it.... what's the backlash going to be?
So, you let the news leak and watch what happens. You also give people plenty of time to come to terms with and accept that it is happening.
If the backlash is too great, that possibly drops the value of things and people can back out. If it is reasonable, then you know you can move ahead and start looking for league approval.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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All Pro
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I'm sure if you had been the owner. Instead of hiring guys like Romeo and Savage,
it appears Romeo is doing well in KC...
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Randy Lerner has confirmed he is in negotiations to sell the Cleveland Browns to Jimmy Haslam, a Knoxville, Tn.-based businessman who is a minority partner in the Pittsburgh Steelers.
I will say now what I've said for years:
God bless Randy Lerner and his efforts in trying to make the Browns a winner. He's spent millions of dollars on people who are no longer with the organization for the sole purpose of trying to find winners to help the team make a turnaround. He's never skimped on paying players, coaches, or executives, and never went "on the cheap" at any point in time. For that I'd thank him. However, he's been an abysmal failure as a team owner in terms of putting the right people in place, and because of that, it won't hurt my feelings to see the ownership turned over to someone else.
Lerner is a fantastic businessman but has never had a clue how to put the correct football people in place. He failed, but not for a lack of desire or effort.
i agree 100%. Great guy , Tried, but good he will sell.
![[Linked Image from dcptest.com]](http://www.dcptest.com/kelly64.jpg)
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Or maybe,
Lerner is just giddy to finally be able to dump this whole pacaca and get the hell out of Cleveland.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I'm sure if you had been the owner. Instead of hiring guys like Romeo and Savage,
it appears Romeo is doing well in KC...
He's been their coach for 3 games..
But that's not even my point...
At the time, everyone Randy has brought in had at least a positive resume (Even Mangini had two winning seasons and probably wouldn't of been fired if Favre's arm hadn't fallen apart)
But it's easy to look back after it didn't work and say what you WOULD OF done instead...
Last edited by OSGuy; 07/27/12 03:49 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Could be, and I wouldn't blame him. I'm surely ready to dump them.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Hall of Famer
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Actually, not really.
if your negoatiations are at the point where you've already hammered the tough parts out, then the last big step is will the fans go along with it.... what's the backlash going to be?
So, you let the news leak and watch what happens. You also give people plenty of time to come to terms with and accept that it is happening.
If the backlash is too great, that possibly drops the value of things and people can back out. If it is reasonable, then you know you can move ahead and start looking for league approval.
Yeah I do see your point, but I think that you are giving the fans point of view too much emphasis on any such business deal.
JMO, but I don't think that our opinions could make or break any such sale.
I mean how helpless did you feel when Model whore'd us to Baltimore?
I felt like I had no say in the matter.
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Craptastic and unfair statements, at best. Screw that - you're full of crap.
*shrug* His record as an owner speaks for itself.
Butch Davis.
George Kokonis.
Eric Mangini.
Phil Savage.
And whether you choose to give Holmgren a TBD or not (you do, I don't because he chose to keep Mangini and hand-picked McCoy) what you have is failed regime after failed regime, and Lerner chose those people.
Unfair my arse. It's perfectly fair. The buck stops with him. His people. His decisions. His structure. They've all failed to this point. There is no debate about that.
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The man, I'd say, has way more clue than you, me, or 99% or the rest of the world.
Irrelevant. He either has failed as an owner in putting the right people in place or he hasn't. So has he failed? Miserably. He's no closer now to fielding a winning team than he was a decade ago. In fact, we're worse. We are viewed as the worst or nearly the worst team in the NFL.
Whether or not he has more of a clue than you or I is irrelevant. As a business man and owner he's been a winner. At producing a winner on the field he's been an abysmal loser.
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He's been advised by several owners in the league on this very topic a number of times. He was good enough to know that he isn't the man to make the football decisions and sought answers and guidance on how others put things together. He tried to follow Kraft's model to the extent of hiring Bellichick disciples, and by bringing in a rising star in the Personnel world. Those people failed him. He tried one more Bellichick disciple before making the move to fully relegate himself to the background by bringing in a new guy to take us into a new direction. That's it; and the jury is still very much out on this latest move.
Excuses.
The people he picked failed him, and thus he failed in picking the right people. To pass the blame on to them is excuse-making. The buck stops on his desk. His team. His people. His failure.
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The simple fact is this: It is the NFL - the pool to pull from at this level is VERY, VERY small. For the very best of th best out there, it is absolutely hit or miss on any given day as to whether or not the people you hire will pan out.
And yet organizations get it turned around every year. 
Stop making excuses for him. You're doing him a disservice. He won't make excuses for himself, that's for sure.
Again, I've always applauded his efforts. He's been a fantastic owner in terms of doing whatever it took to try and field a winner. He's the antithesis of Mike Brown and I couldn't have asked for more as it pertains to the desire and effort.
Too bad that didn't make for winning football. Every move he's made has failed. Sure, give Holmgren an incomplete if you like. That's numerous failed regime's and one incomplete. That's a pathetic score card.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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was just a theory.... but, being that the situation is a little different than it was with The Move - we're a little touchy now, I'd say - I could see where they may worry about such a thing.
Afterall, we are the ticket and merchandising income.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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was just a theory.... but, being that the situation is a little different than it was with The Move - we're a little touchy now, I'd say - I could see where they may worry about such a thing.
Afterall, we are the ticket and merchandising income.
Yeah, in them saying "these idiots will give you money for tickets and merch no matter how bad the team is!"
I'll be curious to see if ticket prices go up (though I'md understand it if we turn things around.)
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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We *finally* have stability at every level of the organization... so, what do we do? We change it all at the very, very top so it can roll all the way back down.
Well done, Browns. Well done.
Stability? Where there's smoke there's fire and there is plenty of smoke suggesting that Holmgren has wanted out for some time now. How about this scenario: we go 4-12 again in 2012, Holmgren finally steps down as president and we have Shurmur/Heckert on the hotseat if not fired. Randy Lerner begins his bi-annual staffing panic and the entire organization is up in the air. How much stability is there really?
Now, think about the possibility of new ownership. Everyone is whining about how he's a minority owner of the Steelers but that also means he's seen one of the classiest and most well-run organizations in football operate (yes, that's hard for me to say but true). I don't know about you, but I'd be thrilled to have even a shadow of that success cast our way. It has to be an improvement from Lerner who according to Peter King never wanted to own the team and according to Jackson/McManamon has only held onto it because of a 10 year moratorium set by his dad in 2002.
If Banner is truly part of this group, we replace Mike Holmgren's wishy-washy semi-commitment to Cleveland with a guy who has been looking for a new challenge and is hungry. Now think about this: since Banner was named President in 2001, the Eagles have had 1 losing season and 9 playoff appearances. Since Randy Lerner took over, we've had 8 losing seasons and 1 playoff appearance. You want stability in the front office? Heckert was promoted TWICE under Banner and left for Cleveland for the same reasons Banner might. If anyone would keep the current structure we have in place, it would be this group.
Realistically, the odds of us winning a championship with Lerner as an owner were dimming by the year. He's run us into the ground and Aston Villa is on the rocks as well. I for one will welcome change... at least with Jimmy Haslam, we know he WANTS to own this team. Randy may have loved the Browns and poured money into it but it's clear he's not very cut out to be an NFL owner.
We're... we're good?
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No you're not.
By now you should have realized that any good news a Brown's fan gets,will be followed by horrorifically bad news.
You see,God is a Browns fan.This is just his way of testing the faith of the truely chosen people.
Keep the faith,21 virgins await us all in the afterlife.
Unfortunately there are approx.3 million of us.By the time those 21 get around to any of us,let's just say they won't be virgins anymore.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Stability? Where there's smoke there's fire and there is plenty of smoke suggesting that Holmgren has wanted out for some time now.
 I'd like to see this "smoke"
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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was just a theory.... but, being that the situation is a little different than it was with The Move - we're a little touchy now, I'd say - I could see where they may worry about such a thing.
Afterall, we are the ticket and merchandising income.
True we are that, but I just believe that to be the hard reality of the NFL business.
The fans always take a back seat, but they did find out first hand that Cleveland Browns Fans would not be denied a team and that though we only represent 1/32 of the League in terms of teams (and we are a smaller market), we had the empathy of the majority of the Leagues fans and that is still unprecedented in the history of this League.
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Legend
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*shrug* His record as an owner speaks for itself.
Butch Davis.
George Kokonis.
Eric Mangini.
Phil Savage.
And whether you choose to give Holmgren a TBD or not (you do, I don't because he chose to keep Mangini and hand-picked McCoy) what you have is failed regime after failed regime, and Lerner chose those people.
Ok, but now let's be real about this.
Scratch Butch off the list - he didn't hire him, he inherited him.
Kokinis & Mangini are one item.
Savage is one more item.
That is a whopping two attempts at getting it right after his father's choice failed.
Holmgren is absolutely TBD - a book is not written after one chapter.
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Unfair my arse. It's perfectly fair. The buck stops with him. His people. His decisions. His structure. They've all failed to this point. There is no debate about that.
I reckon we have a different idea of fair. You seem to think that someone should get things right the firs time every time with everything they do.... it must suck to live in your world, the level of disappointment you must suffer has to be truly maddening.
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Irrelevant. He either has failed as an owner in putting the right people in place or he hasn't. So has he failed? Miserably. He's no closer now to fielding a winning team than he was a decade ago. In fact, we're worse. We are viewed as the worst or nearly the worst team in the NFL.
Whether or not he has more of a clue than you or I is irrelevant. As a business man and owner he's been a winner. At producing a winner on the field he's been an abysmal loser.
Not irrelevant when you stated that he has no clue. He does, and a helluva lot more than some internet keyboard jockey judging him.
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And yet organizations get it turned around every year.
And yet, tons of teams don't, and successful teams with successful front offices fail. Newsflash - sometimes success is not within your control.
You can only do the best you can do with what you have available to you. Period. No matter who you are or what the situation is.
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He's been a fantastic owner in terms of doing whatever it took to try and field a winner.
And that is ALL an owner can do.... EVERYTHING ELSE is HIT OR MISS.
By definition, if he has done whatever it takes to try to field a winner, then there is nothing more he could have done. HE didn't fail, he was failed.
You want to take the buck stops here line, blah blah... that's a load of crap. Hell, if that's the case, then how the hell are you blaming Holmgren for Mangini... .it was obviously the owner's sole fault. Make up your mind already. Does the buck stop at the top or not??
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,171
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,171 |
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God is a Browns fan.
Only if he also goes by the name Loki.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065 |
Why am I not surprised that a Steelers fan would ultimately buy the Browns.  I'm sure allegiances change at the stroke of a pen but there's something at least a little strange about a fan of your most hated rival buying controlling interest in the team. Am I the only fan that thought "really"? When it was mentioned he's a Steelers fan? And a minority investor with the Steelers? If the Browns win, I'm sure I'll get over it pretty quick. 
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
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Stability? Where there's smoke there's fire and there is plenty of smoke suggesting that Holmgren has wanted out for some time now.
I'd like to see this "smoke"
I'm not going to do your research for you, there have been plenty of whispers that Holmgren has wanted out. Heck, his typical line about whether he's staying on is "I made a 5-year commitment and I plan to honor it." That's not "I love my job and plan on staying here," that's "I'm a man of my word but if I had the choice..."
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
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What is the point, and value, in having an owner in the building every day if he is paying people to run the organization for him?
When the cat is away, the mice will play.
The owner being there makes sure everyone is doing what they should be. You can argue that everyone was doing that before, but then you have bizarre firing of George Kokinis, Phil Savage sending off "EFF YOU" emails to fans, and God only knows what Mike Holmgren does everyday.
I think having a consistent owner there, who wants to be with the team, and wants to win, and is a fan of the sport that your team is better. The only advantages the Randy gave us was that he 1) had a lot of money and 2) he was smart enough to know he didn't know football.
I think the fact that he's getting out as soon as his moratorium with Al ends shows how much he wanted this franchise.
you had a good run Hank.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
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Could be, and I wouldn't blame him. I'm surely ready to dump them.
and you wouldn't even get a $1billion parting gift
#gmstrong
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
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Stability? Where there's smoke there's fire and there is plenty of smoke suggesting that Holmgren has wanted out for some time now.
I'd like to see this "smoke"
I'm not going to do your research for you, there have been plenty of whispers that Holmgren has wanted out. Heck, his typical line about whether he's staying on is "I made a 5-year commitment and I plan to honor it." That's not "I love my job and plan on staying here," that's "I'm a man of my word but if I had the choice..."
I love when people throw out random speculations, and when asked for proof, it's not up to them to find it
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
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God is a Browns fan.
Only if he also goes by the name Loki.
Yeah, Loki not Odin LOL.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
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God is a Browns fan.
Only if he also goes by the name Loki.
Yeah, Loki not Odin LOL.
Randy Al-Son?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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