|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830 |
Quote:
Quote:
Banner, who was team president from 2001 until last month, brings the requisite experience to run a team, and is credited with helping the Eagles to 11 playoff appearances during his tenure.
It's kind of tough not to get a little bit excited when reading that.
Banner had absolutely nothing to do with anything Football related to the Eagles. He was a front office man who did contracts and interviews.
What he will bring to the team will be a professional aproach to management areas, but nothing that is going to help us on the field.
I just pray that he wants a 4-3 and west coast type offense and that those were not simply Andy Reids way.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
I almost went to work for Pilot years ago. They wanted me to move to Erie PA though, and the more I thought about it, the less i wanted to deal with the winters up there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
Quote:
not exactly bandwagon.
grew up in TN w/o a pro-team nearby, chose the Cowboys.
went to UTenn, so did Peyton, started cheering for Peyton's Colts
opportunity to buy minority stake in Steelers, took it.
Knoxville isn't so far from Atlanta (3.5 hours) or Cincy (4 hours).
As i said before, he is 58 years old. That means he was born in 1954 or 1955. If he started to follow NFL games at age 7 like most kids do, that would have been 1961 or 1962.
I think the Falcons entered the NFL in 1967. The Cowboys entered in 1960. I think the Saints in 68 and 68 seems about the time Cincy picked up a AFL team.
By 67-68, the Cowboys were a good team and one he had been following for 5-6-7 years. A 12-13 year old kid isn't just going to stop rooting for his team to go root for the Flacons, Saints, or Bengals expansion teams.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513 |
Who cares who he cheered for.... as others pointed out it's not unlikely he grew up liking the Cowboys because they were good, then being a UT grad liked Indy because of Manning...he probably had an opportunity to invest in the Steelers and now has a chance to invest in the Browns.
From what I've read he seems to be a pretty good guy from a good family... as long as he doesn't blow up the FO and coaching staff right away (unless we only win 1 game this year) then I'm excited about a new owner.
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
Quote:
Who cares who he cheered for....
Exactly!
More importantly, does his car have racing stripes, and what color are they??!!?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513 |
It's not like if he buys the Browns he's going to be walking around with a Cowboys polo, Colts hat, and Steelers underwear.... 
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513 |
Randy not leaving entirely.. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/07/cleveland_browns_owner_randy_l_5.htmlBEREA -- Browns owner Randy Lerner will retain a 30% stake in the team at the outset after he sells 70% to Tennessee businessman Jimmy Haslam III, radio play-by-play voice and WKYC sportscaster Jim Donovan reported Saturday night. Donovan also reported that Haslam will have the option to increase his share in the team at some point, but Lerner will remain involved for now. The Lerner family first bought into the Browns in the 1970s when Lerner's late father, Al, purchsed a 9% share as part-owner of Stadium Corporation. Al Lerner then purchased the team for $530 million in 1998. Lerner is selling to Haslam for $920 million, according to Forbes. The Plain Dealer also reported Saturday that the sale could be expedited and wrapped up before the start of the regular season in September, and that former Eagles President Joe Banner is a key part of the Haslam purchase and will at some point be president of the Browns.
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
That is interesting...Lerner retaining 30%.
That means Haslam is paying $920 mill for 70%...I would say Randy is making a pretty good deal.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
interesting.. guess he wants to ensure that Haslam doesn't drastically affect the team. at least immediately that is.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,371
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,371 |
Yeah that was a deal he couldn't refuse.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213 |
Quote:
interesting.. guess he wants to ensure that Haslam doesn't drastically affect the team. at least immediately that is.
The 70% owner controls the interest and would have final say to a 30% minority owner.
I'm just not sure why all "the sky is falling" posts.
On one hand we draft a player with a TERRIBLE record of substance abuse violations and everybody says "big deal".
Then we are about to be sold to a group with some solid football background with a proven winning tradition from both the Steelers and Eagles.....But the sky is falling?
Sometimes things simply don't add up around here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
That is interesting...Lerner retaining 30%.
That means Haslam is paying $920 mill for 70%...I would say Randy is making a pretty good deal.
He wanted 1.1 so it looks like he still has 140 or so million more to pull if and when he needs it.
I'd say that's a pretty good fall back position, 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
I guess all the folks who were saying it was only an investment in the team and not a total purchase were right after all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
The speculation about Joe Banner taking Holmgren's place is not making a lot of sense to me.
Banner is a numbers guy on the business side, previously in control of the salary cap for the Eagles. The guy handling those chores for the Browns is Bryan Wiedmeier, Exec VP, Bus Ops.
I'm not saying Holmgren could not be replaced, but I did not view Holmgren as the numbers guy for the Browns.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,523
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,523 |
That's right Pit.
Furthermore,Banner will soon be a part owner,no longer just part of the help.
I would be surprised if he did anything more than sit in the owner's box,wearing a pork pie hat and sippin moonshine with the Haslam Boys.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
The speculation about Joe Banner taking Holmgren's place is not making a lot of sense to me.
Banner is a numbers guy on the business side, previously in control of the salary cap for the Eagles. The guy handling those chores for the Browns is Bryan Wiedmeier, Exec VP, Bus Ops.
I'm not saying Holmgren could not be replaced, but I did not view Holmgren as the numbers guy for the Browns.
I know what you are saying, so in that vein I agree. But MH has been more on the management end of thing rather than the operational end of things, if that makes sense.
I could see Weidmeyer on the outs along with Holmgren pretty soon after the transfer of ownership voice.
Clearly, no other moves would even begin to be made until after the season. The GM's primary job has been done at this point and making a coaching change would be the act of a imbecile.
Maybe even Homie and Weidmeyer last until seasons end. Getting rid of them at this point would be unsettling.
If we win, we keep them....Banner is simply a part owner and Haslam's right hand man when it comes time to evaluate the evaluators.
In some way it makes sense. Haslam is a guy who makes things happen. He has a part owner who has been around the NFL a long time so he knows what's working and what isn't....at least we hope, but the record is there......but it was there for Carmen as well.
I wish we had kept John Collins is what I wish. He had Opie's number after about a month of working with him.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Quote:
Then we are about to be sold to a group with some solid football background with a proven winning tradition from both the Steelers and Eagles.....But the sky is falling?
Pit...Haslam has how much experience with football at the NFL level?
...According to the information I have found, Haslam has been a minority owner in the Steelers since 2010. I seriously doubt the Rooney family allowed Haslam to make any decisions regarding the football side of their operation.
Haslam has less experience in the NFL than Randy Lerner has. Joe Banner, said to be one of those in the Haslam group, was the President of the Eagles involved with the salary cap and business side of the Eagles.
Here is Banner's wiki bio...Joe Banner (born February 13, 1953) is a strategic adviser to Philadelphia Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie. He was the president for the Eagles from 2001 to 2012. Banner, who is Jewish,[1] attended the Rivers School in Massachusetts and studied economics at Denison University in Ohio. In 1975, he spent a semester interning at WCAU 1210 AM radio in Philadelphia; soon after, he was hired there as a sports producer and reporter.[2]
Banner left WCAU when he opened a chain of clothing stores in Boston called Designer’s Clothing. He then became the head of City Year, a non-profit organization promoting community service for youth.[2]
In 1994 Banner began his work in professional football when Jeffrey Lurie, an old friend, purchased the Eagles.[2] He was promoted in 1996 to senior vice president,[3] and in 1997 from senior vice president of administration[4] to executive vice president.[5][6] In 2006, his contract was extended through 2010.[7] On April 1, 2010, his contract was extended three more years through 2013.[8] He changed positions on June 7, 2012, becoming the strategic adviser to team owner Lurie. Don Smolenski replaced Banner as president.[9]
In 2001, Banner received a "PARTNERS Leadership Award" from the University of Pennsylvania for his extensive community service, including volunteer activities reading to students in the Boston public schools and spending time with severely ill children in the Boston Children's Hospital.[10] He has also been heavily involved, in both Boston and Philadelphia, with City Year, a program based on volunteers who commit to a year of full-time volunteer work.[11][12][13][14]
web page
Unless there is someone other than Jimmy Haslam III and Joe Banner in this group buying the Browns...I don't see where this idea of them possessing great football knowledge and experience is coming from.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
Quote:
Then we are about to be sold to a group with some solid football background with a proven winning tradition from both the Steelers and Eagles.....But the sky is falling?
Pit...Haslam has how much experience with football at the NFL level?
I could argue that he has the same amount of experience running a football organization as Lerner, who has no interest in running the football operations.
Quote:
Unless there is someone other than Jimmy Haslam III and Joe Banner in this group buying the Browns...I don't see where this idea of them possessing great football knowledge and experience is coming from.
Joe Banner has been a proven winner for 11 years. That has to account for something?
But I don't really care. As long as they are passionate, willing to take control of the franchise and run it well without cutting corners, then their football acumen doesn't matter to me.
I do think it's a good thing that Haslam built up his resources more than Randy when he was handed his daddy's checkbook.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Honestly, I'm a little concerned what the change will bring. Will it stall the progress I perceive we've made this off season? dunno But when it comes right down to it, we all know it's a business. the person that owns the team doesn't have to like Cleveland and the Browns don't have to be his favorite team.. He just has to run them well as a business.. And that absolutly includes more than anything, the product on the field. honestly, Minnie and Mickey Mouse could buy the damn team, and if we win, I'm be a happy camper... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213 |
Let's see mac, I guess being the right hand man of an owner of a team that takes his team to the playoffs pretty regularly with Philly might be my first clue. nah, that means nothing. LOL
When you have been right beside someone who you have worked with since they bought a franchise and had a lot of success with that franchise, how can you not see that as some positive news?
I don't see Lerner with anything that resembles that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
NRTU...
I don't give an ass-rats which guy has more experience. Lerner has nearly a decade of experience as an owner and is no closer now to showing he knows what to do than the day he took over the team.
No Browns fan should shed a tear over this.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 249
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 249 |
Quote:
NRTU...
I don't give an ass-rats which guy has more experience. Lerner has nearly a decade of experience as an owner and is no closer now to showing he knows what to do than the day he took over the team.
No Browns fan should shed a tear over this.
Quoted for truth.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
J/C
I will only be upset if...
A. The team moves (which seems pretty unlikely)
B. Blow it all up and start from scratch again without giving what we have a shot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Quote:
Let's see mac, I guess being the right hand man of an owner of a team that takes his team to the playoffs pretty regularly with Philly might be my first clue. nah, that means nothing. LOL
When you have been right beside someone who you have worked with since they bought a franchise and had a lot of success with that franchise, how can you not see that as some positive news?
I don't see Lerner with anything that resembles that.
pit...did you read Banner's wiki bio above...where is Joe Banner's football history?
What is Joe Banner's experience in football?
Other than being given a job with the Eagles after his best buddy bought the team...Banner has "zero" experience in football.
Banner was given the job with the Eagles by his best buddy, Jeff Lurie, when Lurie bought the team in 1994. Banner was basically the guy in charge of contract numbers and salary cap issues. Banner was allowed to expand his role, eventually being named President of the Eagles.
JMHO, when Banner was allowed to have input into player personnel matters, it appears that Banner applied his dollar and cents values on whether the Eagles should keep key personnel or let them go. The following comes from a 2010 article about Banner...
..."" Not knowing what he’s doing — that would be one of the kinder critiques of Joe Banner in Philadelphia. Generally, opinions, on sports-talk radio especially, get a little personal: that he’s a smug, cold bottom-line guy quite willing to jettison popular players once they approach the ripe old age of 30. Troy Vincent. Hugh Douglas. Duce Staley. Brian Dawkins — that one, Dawkins, really hurt.
The perception is he’s a guy who doesn’t really care about winning. Not enough, anyway. Not like we do. Though he’s very good at lining Jeff Lurie’s pockets with ever-increasing amounts of our cash. (Forbes says Lurie’s team is now worth a cool billion.) ""
web page
Joe Banner was fired from his job as President of the Eagles this year...fired by his best friend, who did his best to let Banner down gently, giving him an advisory position with the team. Banner was replaced by another number cruncher with the Eagles, Don Smolenski.
Obviously, anyone holding the title of President with the Eagles, is viewed as a numbers cruncher who is not really needed on the player personnel side.
It sounds like Banner was allowed to have a seat at the table on personnel moves and his bottom line, numbers crunching approach lead to the release of some key players who in hindsight, should not have been let go.
Banner's style likely conflicted with those within the Eagles organization who have had a lifetime of evaluating player personnel...guys like Andy Reid, Head Coach/Executive Vice President of Football Operations.
I have no problem with Joe Banner being one of the owners group buying majority interest in the Browns, as long as Banner keeps his butt in the owners box.
Those who see Banner and Haslam as the white knights riding into Cleveland to save the Browns...changing coarse now might be the worst thing to happen to the Browns since their return in 99.
Holmgren and Lerner set the coarse for the Browns in 2010 and the "Rebuilding of the Browns via the Draft" began. The defense was addressed in the first two drafts and this year, the focus has been primarily on the offense. The foundation has been built and now it needs time to allow the young guys to gain the necessary experience that only comes with/from playing.
With the tough 2012 schedule and lack of experience, especially on the offensive side, this season will be a challenge and the wins may be few. But that does not mean this is a bad team in need of an overhaul...but rather a young team in need of time to mature.
Browns fans as well as the media and the new owner need to understand, "the payoff", for the sacrifices made during the rebuilding years of 2010, 2011 and 2012...will come in 2013 and for years to come. The Browns now have a strong core group of young players who come from winning programs in college and once they learn the game at the NFL level, their desire to win will turn the Browns into winners.
Best thing the new owner can do is grit his teeth this season, but keep his hands off the rebuilding program that began in 2010.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213 |
Let's see, you use Wilki and talk radio and then wonder why one may question those sources? Do you listen to talk radio? everyone has an agenda.....  I guess my question to you would be what has Lerner done to make you feel we wouldn't at least be breaking even? I mean just look at his past personnel record and this teams record and please tell me what we have to lose? Do you really think these guys would want to buy a team they don't see on the rise? Tht they would invest in a long term project? I'd say no. To me it's at least some indication they see this as a positive investment. If you actually think someone is going to spend 920 million dollars on a team to be unsuccessful and lose money I'd say you have no idea what the term "investment" means. As far as I'm concerned, as long as they leave TH in charge of player personnel, I could care less. Unless we break .500 this year, I still see Childress as the next HC and TH in charge of player personnel and I'm fine with that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
NRTU...
I don't give an ass-rats which guy has more experience. Lerner has nearly a decade of experience as an owner and is no closer now to showing he knows what to do than the day he took over the team.
No Browns fan should shed a tear over this.
the ONLY thing, and I mean t his, the ONLY thing I'm worried about is that after these last two drafts, we seem to be heading down a path that could actually work. My concerns revolve around a new guy coming in, ripping what's been built apart and there we go,, starting all over again with another 5 year plan.
That is the only thing that worries me.
Otherwise, Mickey and Minnie mouse can buy it. If we win, I'm as good as gold with that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
I don't understand that fear.
All the prominent players we drafted are either going to pan out and thus are just fine for the next regime, or they aren't.
If Weeden has "it" he can play QB on any team in the NFL.
If Richardson has "it" he can play RB for any team in the NFL.
If Schwartz has "it"...
Little, Gordon, Taylor, Sheard...either they are good enough to make it or they aren't. If they are they stay. If they aren't they go.
I'll again say that if Holmgren's plan appears to be making the strides he promised they would, no new guy is going to blow it up. If the plan appears faulty because we've made no strides then the new guy would be well within his right to blow it up.
You've an unfounded fear.
My biggest fear? That Holmgren reached on players named Gordon and Weeden resulting in yet another regime that failed. I couldn't care less about the new ownership group. They will only respond to what Lerner put on the field. If Lerner finally did good this time then I've nothing to worry about. If Lerner flopped yet again then we're going to blow it up yet again. That has nothing to do with new ownership.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I don't like the phrase "blow it up"
It's not like were going to ship off guys like Richardson, Little, Rubin, Haden etc.
If Weeden busts. Then we get a new QB.
If Shurmur busts, than we get a new HC (Childress may get a shot there)
H&H have done something few regimes have done here. Bring in YOUNG TALENT.
Even if we don't win the Super Bowl next year, I think we're set up for future success..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
I don't understand that fear.
All the prominent players we drafted are either going to pan out and thus are just fine for the next regime, or they aren't.
If Weeden has "it" he can play QB on any team in the NFL.
If Richardson has "it" he can play RB for any team in the NFL.
If Schwartz has "it"...
Little, Gordon, Taylor, Sheard...either they are good enough to make it or they aren't. If they are they stay. If they aren't they go.
I'll again say that if Holmgren's plan appears to be making the strides he promised they would, no new guy is going to blow it up. If the plan appears faulty because we've made no strides then the new guy would be well within his right to blow it up.
You've an unfounded fear.
My biggest fear? That Holmgren reached on players named Gordon and Weeden resulting in yet another regime that failed. I couldn't care less about the new ownership group. They will only respond to what Lerner put on the field. If Lerner finally did good this time then I've nothing to worry about. If Lerner flopped yet again then we're going to blow it up yet again. That has nothing to do with new ownership.
Then you aren't looking at who we drafted and for what roles. We drafted guys specifically for the WCO and the 4-3 D. If the new owner comes in and says.. we're going a different direction, then we have some issues.
it's that simple.. But more important than that,, changing direction all the time never leads to success.. Absolute proven fact.
But really it comes down to this, I like the direction we're heading.. I think/believe it will work. I'm concerned that messing with it might kill it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Then you aren't looking at who we drafted and for what roles. We drafted guys specifically for the WCO and the 4-3 D. If the new owner comes in and says.. we're going a different direction, then we have some issues.
You're fearing that the new owner will change everything regardless of whether or not the players are good or if the team is making strides. That's the unfounded fear I'm talking about.
If the team is doing well no owner in the history of the league will scrap things. If the team is floundering because the moves failed, no owner worth a crap would be dumb enough to keep yet another failed regime in place.
Put in as a simplistic term as I can imagine, if we have a great 4-3 scheme what idiot would trash it? 
Great receivers can play in any offense. Great RB's can play in any offense. We're fine if the new players can play. If they can't who cares if we scrap the entire thing. It would need to be done anyway.
D, you're fearing an implosion regardless of the results on the field. I want you to understand an implosion will only come if the results on the field SUCK.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
You're fearing that the new owner will change everything regardless of whether or not the players are good or if the team is making strides. That's the unfounded fear I'm talking about.
No, my founded fear is that he won't let it develop to see if its working.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
ok. Here's how you settle this. Go back through the last 20 years or so of the league and try to find where a new owner inherited a good product on the field and immediately trashed it.
You won't be able to find one, which is why I say your fear is unfounded.
Now if you were to tell me you're afraid these new guys won't do well causing the new owner to blow it up, well, fear away, because holmy has hitched his cart to Weeden and invested heavily in project guys like little and Gordon. Any smart fan would be skeptical of those moves.
Last edited by Referee7; 07/30/12 03:11 PM.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Quote:
ok. Here's how you settle this. Go back through the last 20 years or so of the league and try to find where a new owner inherited a good product on the field and immediately trashed it.
You won't be able to find one, which is why I say your fear is unfounded.
Now if you were to tell me you're afraid these new guys won't do well causing the new owner to blow it up, well, fear away, because holmy has hitched his cart to Weeden and invested heavily in project guys like little and Gordon. Any smart fan would be skeptical of those moves.
Hey Toad I get what your saying and for the most part I agree. There are only a few things that have made me wonder about what you are saying.
I read in one the articles that Banner or Haslim (cant remember which) wanted to come in and re-build a struggling franchise.
Now from the outside looking in we would appear to be just such team, however alot of us feel for the 1st time in a long time we are finally putting this together. Things that a new owner/s may not see on the surface.
If Shurmer craps up the place again this year, the entire staff probably is gone. Rookie QB needs to learn a new system again in his 2nd year. The fear on Defense is also a very real if a new HC believes in a 3-4 style of defense.
I am not the sky is falling guy at all but I do have some concerns that the growth we are seeing may not be as visable to the new owner(s).
Last edited by Referee7; 07/30/12 03:13 PM.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,826
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,826 |
Quote:
ok. Here's how you settle this. Go back through the last 20 years or so of the league and try to find where a new owner inherited a good product on the field and immediately trashed it.
You won't be able to find one, which is why I say your fear is unfounded.
Now if you were to tell me you're afraid these new guys won't do well causing the new owner to blow it up, well, fear away, because holmy has hitched his cart to Weeden and invested heavily in project guys like little and Gordon. Any smart fan would be skeptical of those moves.
Here is the thought process. A new owner buys the team. Of course he wants to hire HIS own team President. MH is out. The new President wants HIS GM who wants HIS coach who wants HIS systems.
Now if that is system is a 3-4 then Sheard (who is arguably our best player on defense) no longer has a position. He is not big enough to be a 34 DE and not agile enough for the 34 olb position. How many other players would be affected in that same way?
As for your question of a new owner immediately trashing a good product on the field, well what have you been watching these past few years? I don't think you can call what we have seen on the field as a good quality product. The concern people have is that despite the poor on field product that we have been watching, we see a team that looks like it is moving in the right direction. And to turn that over now when we finally have a glimpse of hope thus wasting the past 2 years is what people are worried about.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213 |
J/C
I have heard it said that people don't want to see things "blown up yet again". I understand that, but let me ask you........
Since we've been back in 99, what system or people do you feel we should have kept from former regimes? Is anyone trying to indicate that we had the right people/players in place before to any point that rebuilds weren't necassary?
You blow up decaying buildings. You add to solid foundations. The closest thing we have to a sure bet from this draft barring major injury is T Rich. Everything else is a complete unnown at the pro level.
Does it look good on paper? To most but this wouldn't be the first time. As with most good drafts, I feel a few players will stick and the rest will fall by the wayside. It's the natural order of things.
Investors don't usually trash things that work well. At this point in time, there aren't that many players on this team that couldn't be upgraded. After this season we may have a better idea of how things are flowing.
But fussing and getting yourselves all worked up about a product that has failed miserably to this point truely has me baffled......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213 |
Quote:
As for your question of a new owner immediately trashing a good product on the field, well what have you been watching these past few years? I don't think you can call what we have seen on the field as a good quality product. The concern people have is that despite the poor on field product that we have been watching, we see a team that looks like it is moving in the right direction. And to turn that over now when we finally have a glimpse of hope thus wasting the past 2 years is what people are worried about.
Other than a few good D players and rookies on paper, what is it you have seen with your own eyes this regime has done to inducate to you that "we are headed in the right direction"?
I would simply like for someone to explain that to me. I do believe our D does have a few core players that could play anywhere. That being the case, for the most part, they can play here. If we can put more points on the board this year maybe we'll find out exactly what we have on D.
But when your team averages less than 14 points a game and your oponents can run at will against you, stats can be very misleading as to the quality of that D.
I could see losing Sheard and Taylor as bad omens. I like both of them and want to see them playing here. The secondary will only change if the quality of players on it dictate so.
By seasons end we will have a lot better idea of what we do and don't have. And so will the new owners. So far from regime change to regime change nothing has been fixed, or attempted to be fixed, that wasn't already broken.
I think the fan base, or at least a part of them are in panic mode right now. A lot of rash decisions and assumptions have been made in that frame of mind that have been wrong simply for the fear of the unknown. I doubt this will be any different......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
I dont fear the unknown, its what I want. The playoffs good drafts and coaching. I kinda see some of that taking shape now and I dont fear it at all.
What I fear is the known. Bad football horrid rebuilds over and over again.
No, it is the knowm way of doing things every 3 years here that scares me.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,213 |
Quote:
What I fear is the known. Bad football horrid rebuilds over and over again.
I'll ask this again. To this point, since 1999, can you name one rebuild that wasn't needed?
Which great regime was kicked out of Cleveland that did so well? That should have stayed?
To this point, what is it about this current regimes record that has you so convinced they are doing so well?
4-12 and "hopes" this draft turns out to be good? Because that's really all we have to this point. Like I said, we really have no idea of wht we do or don't have until towards the end of the season.
Are you afraid the record may improve?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Quote:
Quote:
What I fear is the known. Bad football horrid rebuilds over and over again.
I'll ask this again. To this point, since 1999, can you name one rebuild that wasn't needed?
Which great regime was kicked out of Cleveland that did so well? That should have stayed?
To this point, what is it about this current regimes record that has you so convinced they are doing so well?
4-12 and "hopes" this draft turns out to be good? Because that's really all we have to this point. Like I said, we really have no idea of wht we do or don't have until towards the end of the season.
Are you afraid the record may improve?
On your first thoughts no I think some of the things that were done needed to be done. However I have seen alot of good Browns teams and also know what it feels like when they are getting it right. The middle 70's sucked. The 80's alot better and the half 90's we had were leading to a SB which just happened be won by our team taken away. The coach of that team went on to win a few SB's himself.
Name like Mike "maddog" Junkin come to mind when thinking of some drafts. I can feel a good Gm when I see the talent he has gotten in the last 3 years. The biggest factor right now for me is Shurmer.
Again if the new owners let MH go and Shurmer sucks this year I dont want to see Heckert leave with them and I dont want him to have to redraft to a new coaches schemes. I actually want Shurmer to succeed though I do have my doubts.
I will be honest I loved BB when he was here. I loved Marty until he lost Lindy and took over the offense and then left because he wouldnt hire another. Shurmer at least didnt make that mistake. There is some guy coaching down at LSU who also used to be here as well as a DC.
I like Ryan because he was not afaid of having no talent. I like our DC now because he has a good feel for what talent he has and how to best use it.
I can tell good coaching when I see it and last year I didnt see it from our HC. I can tell good drafting when I see the product on the field and I see good young players dotted all over the Browns roster. Finally I can usually sfiff out BS when its being served and this is one case that I dont smell anything funny coming from our current GM.
I dont want that to change.
So color me orange and brown for being a fan but we both have been around the block so to speak with our Browns and know when not to drink the cool-aid. In this case Im sipping it and it's pretty good. The mixture is not complete but I want more. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
I agree Nick. My feeling is if there is a weak link, Shurmer is it.
That said, he didn't have a good shot last year being a new coach in a lockout year.
Now he has the full allotted time and a years worth of experience.
It's been said players make a big leap between year 1 and year 2. I think the same for coaches....or hope so anyway.
I know in my personal life I always did better the second time through a new job responsibility or drill of some sort than I did the first time through. Retrospect allows you to think you wouldn't do that again.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns in process of being Sold
Part II
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
