|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989
All Pro
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989 |
I disagree.
He's a natural leader, and a winner. I think he'll end up getting it mentally. And I would think he would increase His arm strength a lil. I think at The very least he'll be a competent back up in the league for 5-7 more years. At best... starting QB some where but Nothing better than an avg starter that manages the game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545 |
I'm not being mean here ..... but I look around the league and wonder where McCoy could start. He wouldn't start for any team in our division. Bills: Fitzpatrick- No Pats: Brady - No Dolphins: Garrard, Tannehill, Moore - No Jets: Sanchez, Tebow - No Texans: Schub - No Colts: Luck - No Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne - Maybe Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker - No Donks: Manning - No Chefs: Cassell, Quinn - Maybe Raiders: Palmer, Leihart, Pryor- Probably not Chargers: Rivers - No Cowboys: Romo - No Giants: Manning - No Eagles: Vick - No Redskins: RG3 - No Bears: Cutler - No Lions: Stafford -No Packers: Rodgers - No Vikings: Ponder - Probably not Falcons: Ryan - No Panthers: Newton - No Saints: Brees - No Bucs: Freeman - Probably not Cardinals: Skelton, Kolb - Probably not 49'ers: Smith - No Rams: Bradford - No Seahags: Flynn, Jackson, Wilson - No I just look around the league and I don't see any teams where McCoy would be a definite upgrade. I see a pair of teams where he might be. I also look around the league and "average" QBs do little in this league. You better have one of the league's best running games and defenses, as the 49'ers did, and even then, you still have to have everything go your way. (like playing in a really crappy division) I dunno. I look at McCoy and I see a backup at most. I know that the team and local media have been playing up how good McCoy has looked in camp so far. However, then I look at what the national media writes about him when they visit .... and how he throws behind receivers, throws late, doesn't have the same zip on his passes that Weeden has, and so on. I would guess that anyone scouting him will see the same things. From ESPN just the other day: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/category/_/name/cleveland-brownsThere's been talk that Colt McCoy has improved since last season, but it didn't show during my visit. His throws lacked any zip, especially when following Weeden's passes, and were continually behind receivers. That's not a good sign from a national writer who isn't invested in McCoy on a personal level.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989 |
I thought we were discussing down the road. I'm not saying he's gona be aaroon Rodgers that sits for few years and comes in and is a stud. What I'm trying to say that i think he'll be ready to seriously compete for a starting position somewhere in 2-3 years. I don't think that's far fetched.
I remember his first game in college against the bucks. If u can imagine how ytown sees colt now, then X5 ... that's how horrendous it was. Never thought he would ever get drafted. But he overcame and grew and had a stellar college career. And he is improving, not as fast as some may like, but improving. What's his ceiling??? Who knows. But I don't think he will be out the league in 3 years as you are implying.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545 |
We'll see what happens. It is very rare that a guy loses his starting job and then goes on to a different team to become an upper level QB. Occasionally a guy does as DA did and starts a year, then hits the bench ...... or as Frye did where he started a few games before he found his way to retirement. Most often a guy does as Brady Quinn has done, and he goes on to backup duty ..... and is almost never heard from again.
I'm not trying to be mean here, but teams usually don't want to work on a guy who has already failed, no matter what the reasons for that failure were. They move on to a cheaper rookie if they have to develop a guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989 |
Quote:
I'm not trying to be mean here, but teams usually don't want to work on a guy who has already failed, no matter what the reasons for that failure were. They move on to a cheaper rookie if they have to develop a guy.
I wouldn't necessarily say he failed. On the other hand I wouldn't say he succeeded. But he has had some limited success. Getting thrown in the mix b4 he was ready and got some big wins. Year two: had nothing going in his favor... And to top it off gets sidelined at the end of the year when we should of started to see him settle down and show improvement.
One good thing is that I don't see Colt being scarred like Couch was by getting tossed in the mix too early. And he definitely is a hard worker and has no character issues. That's y I think he still has a future n the NFL.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901 |
Quote:
I'm not being mean here ..... but I look around the league and wonder where McCoy could start.
Just one injury to a starting QB, and a QB of McCoy's talent could be the starter for the rest of the season.
Some teams have good backup help at the QB position...some don't. McCoy's value as Weeden's backup might be greater for the Browns than any other team in the NFL, because he's in his second season playing in our system.
But the Browns also have Wallace which might mean McCoy is expendable, if the offer in trade is good enough.
Just last night, the Cards lost Kevin Kolb to an injury. Looks like it's nothing serious this time, but it emphasizes how quickly the #2 can become the #1 QB....all it takes is one play.
There will be other starting QBs who get injured in the preseason.
BTW...you do know who Hensley is, don't you?...
...Hensley is probably the worst source a person could sight for an opinion on anything to do with the Browns.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545 |
People said the same stuff about Frye. Remember how Holmgren was "going to fix him"?
Then we had Brady Quinn. Oh, he was going to take that Denver job and prove the Browns wrong for dumping him. Has he taken a single snap since then?
Teams generally don't take chances on guys they see as having failed. They take chances on guys who have only had limited exposure .... guys who have great measurables and/or physical talents ........ guys they perceive to have upside ..... and McCoy probably isn't one of those guys.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218 |
j/c .....
I don't see the sale of the team as saying anything at all about the Draft. I'd say, without hesitation, that the Draft is the Draft... and it is simply us building the team the right way.
What I *could* see it explaining further is us not bringing in the big ticket free agents. Lower labor costs means higher profit margin which means a team that is more attractive.
However, every team has the same salary cap... so what we actually spent is meaningless because for a team to really be profitable it needs to make more than the cap so that you are covered when salaries get high. Add in that it is rather widely documented that a number of the bigger names simply did not want to come here.
I'd say that the whole premise of this thread is nothing more than looking at a cloud and choosing to see smoke so that you can conclude there is a fire somewhere.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545 |
Well ..... if the front office knows that they have to show major improvement this season in order to keep their jobs, then they might o things a little differently than if they know that they have a couple more years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Well ..... if the front office knows that they have to show major improvement this season in order to keep their jobs, then they might o things a little differently than if they know that they have a couple more years.
I agree that the premise of this thread is moot ... There is no proof that this team had any idea of a sale firstly and that they would have drafted differently because of any such knowledge back in April.
We have all complained over the years when we seemed to ignore what we perceived to be weakness of our team on Draft week.
Finally we have a GM who seems to echo our needs by drafting for those needs and the premise is that we pushed our chips to the center of the table?
We interred into last Aprils Draft with a good deal of ammo and we didn't wast a round outside of our needs.
If we didn't like the value we traded down and that's what good teams do to draft for needs if possible.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,085
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,085 |
Quote:
j/c .....
I don't see the sale of the team as saying anything at all about the Draft. I'd say, without hesitation, that the Draft is the Draft... and it is simply us building the team the right way.
What I *could* see it explaining further is us not bringing in the big ticket free agents. Lower labor costs means higher profit margin which means a team that is more attractive.
However, every team has the same salary cap... so what we actually spent is meaningless because for a team to really be profitable it needs to make more than the cap so that you are covered when salaries get high. Add in that it is rather widely documented that a number of the bigger names simply did not want to come here.
I'd say that the whole premise of this thread is nothing more than looking at a cloud and choosing to see smoke so that you can conclude there is a fire somewhere.
A team needs to make a helluva lot more than just the cap spent. You have facility costs, Coaching salaries, FO Salaries, all the Mandatory payroll taxes and insurances just to name a few things.. And keep in mind, the cap is just the salary number a player gets, on top of that are health benefits (these are just the standard ones) healthcare costs for injuries (probably insured) and the MPT&I for the players.
If the salary cap used hits 125 Million you are probably looking at somewhere in the vicinity of 185 million in actual costs for Just the Players alone. Add in everything else and you gotta be talking that a team doesn't start to make money until it has revenues of 235+ million. I"m not sure what the TV revenues are,,, Maybe that covers everything..dunno..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218 |
Quote:
Well ..... if the front office knows that they have to show major improvement this season in order to keep their jobs, then they might o things a little differently than if they know that they have a couple more years.
It's the NFL. Every FO has to show they have to show major improvement when they've sucked as bad as we have for as long as we have.
I really don't think this year is any different.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218 |
Quote:
Quote:
j/c .....
I don't see the sale of the team as saying anything at all about the Draft. I'd say, without hesitation, that the Draft is the Draft... and it is simply us building the team the right way.
What I *could* see it explaining further is us not bringing in the big ticket free agents. Lower labor costs means higher profit margin which means a team that is more attractive.
However, every team has the same salary cap... so what we actually spent is meaningless because for a team to really be profitable it needs to make more than the cap so that you are covered when salaries get high. Add in that it is rather widely documented that a number of the bigger names simply did not want to come here.
I'd say that the whole premise of this thread is nothing more than looking at a cloud and choosing to see smoke so that you can conclude there is a fire somewhere.
A team needs to make a helluva lot more than just the cap spent. You have facility costs, Coaching salaries, FO Salaries, all the Mandatory payroll taxes and insurances just to name a few things.. And keep in mind, the cap is just the salary number a player gets, on top of that are health benefits (these are just the standard ones) healthcare costs for injuries (probably insured) and the MPT&I for the players.
If the salary cap used hits 125 Million you are probably looking at somewhere in the vicinity of 185 million in actual costs for Just the Players alone. Add in everything else and you gotta be talking that a team doesn't start to make money until it has revenues of 235+ million. I"m not sure what the TV revenues are,,, Maybe that covers everything..dunno..
Yes, I know.... sorry for using a simplistic explanation and not including every possible expenditure, but instead only using the one that makes up the hugest part of a team's expenses.... labor costs. You know, that one expense that costs each team in excess of $100 million per year.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,085
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,085 |
I'm so pleased you understand, however, not everyone is astute as you,, Consider my efforts a Public Service 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,804
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,804 |
Quote:
I'm so pleased you understand, however, not everyone is astute as you,, Consider my efforts a Public Service
I thought since the salary cap was set with all expences in mind, that was already a given.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,844
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,844 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm so pleased you understand, however, not everyone is astute as you,, Consider my efforts a Public Service
I thought since the salary cap was set with all expences in mind, that was already a given.......
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the salary cap was the players salaries - nothing else.
No stadium lease, no coaches salaries, doesn't include the front office expenses, the electric bill, phones, car leases, liability insurance, security, game day food for the players, laundry, travel expenses including the chartered flight and hotel expenses, etc, etc, etc etc etc.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,804
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,804 |
Quote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the salary cap was the players salaries - nothing else.
Yes, it was based on total profits after.........
Quote:
stadium lease, coaches salaries, includeing the front office expenses, the electric bill, phones, car leases, liability insurance, security, game day food for the players, laundry, travel expenses including the chartered flight and hotel expenses, etc, etc, etc etc etc.
Exactly. After all of the things you mentioned, probabably plus some you forgot, you have your profits.
Profits are exactly what the salary cap was based on. You know, profit? That thing you have AFTER you deduct all of your expences?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,844
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,844 |
Quote:
Quote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the salary cap was the players salaries - nothing else.
Yes, it was based on total profits after.........
Quote:
stadium lease, coaches salaries, includeing the front office expenses, the electric bill, phones, car leases, liability insurance, security, game day food for the players, laundry, travel expenses including the chartered flight and hotel expenses, etc, etc, etc etc etc.
Exactly. After all of the things you mentioned, probabably plus some you forgot, you have your profits.
Profits are exactly what the salary cap was based on. You know, profit? That thing you have AFTER you deduct all of your expences?
Might want to look into that pit.
The salary cap is a percentage of all football related revenue. NOT profit. All football "revenue", and nothing about a teams expenses factors into it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
...winkface. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,804
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,804 |
Yes Arch it is on total revenue. You're right. But some of the bills aren't quite as much as you may think they would be. The Browns pay the city $250,000 a year So for the most part, the tax payers pay for the stadium, not the team owner. You'll find fat deals like that in most cities in the league. It's a cheap deal for the owners and brings a lot of business and PR for the city. Win/win there. But once again, it's the taxpayer subsidizing billionaires.  There's also deals that provide the Browns with "free parking" that they turn around and charge fans for and have control over all revenue generated there. And yes, the Browns control all naming rights to the stadium and revenue generated by it. We both know that's millions per year. Wait a minute? They pay 250,000 a year and make millions on the naming rights, revenue from parking? Could it be they actually make revenue on the stadium rather than it cost them money? Fred Nance, the cities attorney cut the deal with the Browns when the stadium was built. Nance is now a lawyer for the Browns.  Was he in the Senate or something? LOL http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-211140326.htmlThe city will be paying 5.8 million for stadium repairs this year. http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/02/07...for-facilities/The team does pay the utility bill though! While I was wrong about the profits, it appears the picture you were trying to paint was pretty misleading too. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,844
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,844 |
Pit, you were wrong about the salary cap. Period. Here is a quote of yours: "Exactly. After all of the things you mentioned, probabably plus some you forgot, you have your profits. Profits are exactly what the salary cap was based on. You know, profit? That thing you have AFTER you deduct all of your expences?" You have other quotes that show you didn't know what you were talking about. But, somehow, you turn that in to me being wrong????? Please. Did you notice that the Browns are lending, INTEREST FREE, the 5.8 million to the city? Did you read that the Browns themselves have paid out 225 million since the stadium was built? You, pit, also state: " There's also deals that provide the Browns with "free parking" that they turn around and charge fans for and have control over all revenue generated there. And yes, the Browns control all naming rights to the stadium and revenue generated by it." Wouldn't that count as "all football related revenue" when considering the salary cap? Yup. Then you follow up with this gem: "We both know that's millions per year. Wait a minute? They pay 250,000 a year and make millions on the naming rights, revenue from parking? Could it be they actually make revenue on the stadium rather than it cost them money?" First, the team needs to make money. Perhaps you aren't aware of all the bills the team has........and I only listed a small number of them. But mainly - dude, you were wrong...........and in your limited admission of your wrongness - instead of just saying "Oh, I didn't understand the salary cap numbers"...........you come up with some other blathering. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,804
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,804 |
And I said I was wrong arch.
The difference is, the 5.8mil comes from the city from a sin tax. The 225 mil the team put in? You do know they included most charitable things they do in the Cleveland community in that, right? And even those are tax deductible.
And yes Arch, the parking money is revenue. so the owners get half.
The difference here arch,s you made it sound like the teams pay a fortune for stadiums and a lot of other operating costs that in many cases simply aren't true.
I was wrong and admited it.
You too were wrong and refuse to admit it and tried to rub salt in the wound of someone who at least man up and admit it.
That's really pretty sad when you think about it....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum I think the draft has been
explained.
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif){kind=logo}
