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I have a question
How is that Art Modell vilified more then Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams, Al Davis, Georgia Frontiere, and Bob Irsay? From my perspective it seems like we had it the easiest out of all the fans that have lost a team in my lifetime.
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It would be better if just nobody went to their seat until after the observance was over.
*edit* and symbolically appropriate.
i was actually thinking the same thing - would be a great time to buy a beer or use the john...
<><
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Quote:
I have a question
How is that Art Modell vilified more then Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams, Al Davis, Georgia Frontiere, and Bob Irsay? From my perspective it seems like we had it the easiest out of all the fans that have lost a team in my lifetime.
I don't know about many other places but I do know in Houston Bud Adams is pretty much hated... with that said, I think having the Texans playing so well really helped out, but also Houston is not the crazy football town that Cleveladn is... yes they followed their team but I just don't think their fans historically have been as rabid as the Browns have. Also, I think if the Browns would have come back and won that would have taken a lot of the hurt away... coming back and basically sucking for 10+ years hasn't helped most fans heal.
<><
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It would be better if just nobody went to their seat until after the observance was over.
*edit* and symbolically appropriate.
i was actually thinking the same thing - would be a great time to buy a beer or use the john...
A caller to a radio show actually had a great idea, make the players wear black armbands or something to the effect. Don't mention it over the PA system, nothing. That way you take it out of the fans hands and we don't get the embarrassing moment on Sportscenter and become the next weeks topic on Outside the Lines.
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Quote:
Quote:
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It would be better if just nobody went to their seat until after the observance was over.
*edit* and symbolically appropriate.
i was actually thinking the same thing - would be a great time to buy a beer or use the john...
A caller to a radio show actually had a great idea, make the players wear black armbands or something to the effect. Don't mention it over the PA system, nothing. That way you take it out of the fans hands and we don't get the embarrassing moment on Sportscenter and become the next weeks topic on Outside the Lines.
Yeah...maybe just a small sticker on the back of the helmet since something is mandated.
"My signature line goes here."
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I don't hate Art Modell. Yes the Browns moved. But you know what, I see alot businesses move out of Cleveland/NE Ohio all the time and theres less commotion made about it.
Industries are just as much as part of the fabric of a city as is a football team.
Art Modell went broke trying to put a winning product on the field.
in a 10 year span,the Browns went to the playoffs 7 times.
what have the Browns done under Lerner?
not a damn thing.
Look,Modell probally would have done things differently if you asked him.
but who wouldn't?
but he wanted to insure that his family was well taken care of after he died.
thats what it boils down to.
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I'm not sure I give a damn what the rest of the league or the public thinks.
Our stadium, our team, our colors. We had to fight the league to get our team back. The team this guy moved out of Cleveland and these Browns fans have a long memory.
If the dawgs wanna be quiet, cheer, boo, play kazoos.. I'm all for it. How dare bspn or the public pass judgement on us? At bottlegate, there were no less that 5 fundamental rules broken by the NFL and their refs. We got no apology.. we got castigated. Screw them. The more I think on it the more irritated I get.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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I don't hate Art Modell. Yes the Browns moved. But you know what, I see alot businesses move out of Cleveland/NE Ohio all the time and theres less commotion made about it.
IMO The Browns are more then just another business...
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Wouldnt it be elite if the whole stadium broke out in a Go Browns chant.
CLEVELAND BROWNS! CLEVELAND BROWNS! CLEVELAND BROWNS!
Think that would be sweet, not classless, and show what we feel.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
I have a question
How is that Art Modell vilified more then Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams, Al Davis, Georgia Frontiere, and Bob Irsay? From my perspective it seems like we had it the easiest out of all the fans that have lost a team in my lifetime.
the Cleveland Browns were considered a "foundation team" in the NFL. they may not have been an original member, but the gusto with which they joined followed by the help with the AFL-NFL merger established us and our franchise as key figures in NFL history.
the Colts leaving Baltimore really is the only other one of those that can be compared. and Irsay was (and is) hated and I think the only reason that hate is dissipated is that they did the same dang thing to us (and feel guilty about it).
as far as the LA teams: could you imagine the outcry in Cleveland if the NFL was trying to give us a team for 10yrs and the politicians wouldn't/couldn't get their act together to deliver it?
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a question
How is that Art Modell vilified more then Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams, Al Davis, Georgia Frontiere, and Bob Irsay? From my perspective it seems like we had it the easiest out of all the fans that have lost a team in my lifetime.
the Cleveland Browns were considered a "foundation team" in the NFL. they may not have been an original member, but the gusto with which they joined followed by the help with the AFL-NFL merger established us and our franchise as key figures in NFL history.
the Colts leaving Baltimore really is the only other one of those that can be compared. and Irsay was (and is) hated and I think the only reason that hate is dissipated is that they did the same dang thing to us (and feel guilty about it).
as far as the LA teams: could you imagine the outcry in Cleveland if the NFL was trying to give us a team for 10yrs and the politicians wouldn't/couldn't get their act together to deliver it?
+1
The only real comparison is Irsay with Baltimore...and they still despise that guy. I think the Browns move may be #1 on the move list just because it was the biggest and most recent AND how we fought/won a team back.
On PTI yesterday Bill Simmons and Wilbon were talking about art....and I think they really captured what I would want to hear from the non-Cleveland media. They said the move will be the first thing people talk about his legacy....like Paterno. They talked about how the move was a no-win situation for everyone. And Bill went on to say that Cleveland has probably taken the two biggest hits in sports history (and survived to a point)....Lebron and the Browns leaving. They weren't bagging on Cleveland, just telling how hard it's been and sounded genuinely sympathetic.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I respect the Steelers. I have no respect for the Ravens. I hate the Ravens and their fans. They knew what it was like to lose a team so you'd think they wouldn't want another fan base to go through that. But no, they didn't care and were happy to steal another city's team. They're pathetic.
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What were they supposed to do...refuse to accept the teams move? This was a decision between art and the city leaders.
Not that anyone cares, I still think what should have happened was this:
- The NFL would buy the Browns from art and retain ownership until a new buyer was found - keeping them in the city of Cleveland.
- art would be guaranteed an expansion franchise in Baltimore in 1, 2 or 3 years....probably 2.
I'm sure there were legal issue with that plan, but that's what "should" have happened.
We got a team back and in the long run, that's all that really matters. On a long enough timeline, we'll be good again and it won't matter we missed three years of football. But even saying that, it doesn't make me forgive the actions of art......he never apologized, so why should I forgive him?
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I find a tremendous amount of irony comparing this conversation with the thread on the 21 ways rich people think differently.... and its obvious to see why very few people on this board are rich.
Yes, I can see with Art how crapping on the people who helped make you rich in the first place is something many of us wouldn't be willing to do to stay or get richer.
Our bad.........
I'll keep my dignity and moral values over wealth thank you very much.......
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I'm no big fan of Art and wish things would have worked out differently but he was put in a very bad spot, partly because of his own doing, partly because of other factors.... and he made a business decision.
The stadium issue was going to be on the ballet that fall when he announced his move. 70% were in favor of the stadium. He had a stadium coming. Baltimore offered him a king's ransom and the NFL owners went against their own guidelines as to what constitutes the reason to move a team.
Funny how people call that "business". Maybe that's why so many have such a distate for big business.
He didn't need to move but greed conquered all.
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I just hope the city of Cleveland and the fans of the Browns don't do anything stupid.....
RIP Art.
No, I think our fans probably have a little more class than Art did.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You don't have to like a person, but any one person is more significant than any football team.
Death is imminant. Moving the Browns wasn't. Everyone at some point will die. You and I included. It's what we do on this earth and our actions that remain.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well, apparently the league has asked for a moment of silence or some appropriate recognition to all home teams so now the Browns are in a bind. If they do nothing the franchise takes a hit and has to explain why they did what they did. They'll either take a bullet for the fans and make up some story or throw us under the bus. But in the end, we would all know why they chose to do nothing and the city and the fans get thrown under the bus anyway. The NFL has given the national media a side show story now.
So other than a moment of silence which won't be silent, what can an appropriate response be? I can't see ANYTHING that works here.
If that's what the league is asking for, do it.
An hour before the game. Or, at the beginning of the game, announce "We will have a moment of silence 30 minutes after the game is over, for anyone that wants to participate."
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As I read that I picture you stomping your feet and holding your hands on your hips like my 9 year old does when she doesn't get her way... and I'm reminded of how totally out of whack we can get our priorities some times.
If you forget who crapped on you and how they crapped on you, you may get crapped on again. At least that's what rich people tell me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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As I read that I picture you stomping your feet and holding your hands on your hips like my 9 year old does when she doesn't get her way... and I'm reminded of how totally out of whack we can get our priorities some times.
If you forget who crapped on you and how they crapped on you, you may get crapped on again. At least that's what rich people tell me.
You a Browns fan Pit? Still wear the shirts and jerseys? Still go to a game now and then? Still in here breaking down the footwork of every offensive lineman? Still hang on every play on Sunday and long for the day the Browns are in playoff contention?
Yea, me too, so we are both set up to be crapped on again. You didn't learn a thing.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
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It would be better if just nobody went to their seat until after the observance was over.
*edit* and symbolically appropriate.
i was actually thinking the same thing - would be a great time to buy a beer or use the john...
This would be a great way for fans. We could for all intents and purposes "turn our backs".
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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As I read that I picture you stomping your feet and holding your hands on your hips like my 9 year old does when she doesn't get her way... and I'm reminded of how totally out of whack we can get our priorities some times.
If you forget who crapped on you and how they crapped on you, you may get crapped on again. At least that's what rich people tell me.
You a Browns fan Pit? Still wear the shirts and jerseys? Still go to a game now and then? Still in here breaking down the footwork of every offensive lineman? Still hang on every play on Sunday and long for the day the Browns are in playoff contention?
Yea, me too, so we are both set up to be crapped on again. You didn't learn a thing.
That would all make sense...
If Art Modell still owned the team...
He doesn't, so none of that does...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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You are completely missing his point.....
RIP Art Modell.
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2nd String
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Quote:
I have a question
How is that Art Modell vilified more then Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams, Al Davis, Georgia Frontiere, and Bob Irsay? From my perspective it seems like we had it the easiest out of all the fans that have lost a team in my lifetime.
It's the Cleveland Browns, imagine if they moved the Red Sox or something.
Last edited by LittleGregBig; 09/07/12 09:46 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a question
How is that Art Modell vilified more then Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams, Al Davis, Georgia Frontiere, and Bob Irsay? From my perspective it seems like we had it the easiest out of all the fans that have lost a team in my lifetime.
It's the Cleveland Browns, imagine if they moved the Red Sox or something.
There can be a few right nswers to that question, but yours is probably the biggest.
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You a Browns fan Pit? Still wear the shirts and jerseys? Still go to a game now and then? Still in here breaking down the footwork of every offensive lineman? Still hang on every play on Sunday and long for the day the Browns are in playoff contention?
Yea, me too, so we are both set up to be crapped on again. You didn't learn a thing.
I leaned a lot about a guy named Art Modell. I learned a lot about how sports owners depend on and expect your loyalty, yet have none to give in return.
I learned how they speak out both sides of their mouths. I've learned to watch out for it and expect it. Not to be shocked by it. I've learned that it wasn't just Art Modell, but the majority of NFL owners who voted for and supported the move by Modell.
And I've learned to NEVER, under any circumstances trust big business. So yes, I've learned a lot. And while I would be disapointed if the Browns ever left Cleveland again, I wouldn't be devistated by it as I was last time because I've learned to expect anything from rich people like that.
That's why I've never given a two week notice before leaving a job. That's why I only invest in an employers 401k what they will match. And why I will use my status with one company, to further my personal agenda with another company.
Because I don't owe them anything they don't owe me. The same goes for Art Modell now......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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j/c..
I'll never 'celebrate' anyone's death. He was still a human being.
But, should I all of a sudden like the guy, and forgive him and mourn his death?
Hell no.
I hated the guy when he was alive, and I hate him now.
However, there's still people who lost a father, a friend, etc.
Consider me indifferent about his death.
Best post in the thread and I agree
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What were they supposed to do...refuse to accept the teams move? This was a decision between art and the city leaders.
Not that anyone cares, I still think what should have happened was this:
- The NFL would buy the Browns from art and retain ownership until a new buyer was found - keeping them in the city of Cleveland.
- art would be guaranteed an expansion franchise in Baltimore in 1, 2 or 3 years....probably 2.
I'm sure there were legal issue with that plan, but that's what "should" have happened.
We got a team back and in the long run, that's all that really matters. On a long enough timeline, we'll be good again and it won't matter we missed three years of football. But even saying that, it doesn't make me forgive the actions of art......he never apologized, so why should I forgive him?
wouldn't have worked, Modell was a millionaire in what had become a billionaires game. He'd never been able to buy the new franchise in Baltimore..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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per Tom Withers of the AP, the Browns have cancelled plans for any recognition of Art Modell tomorrow, requested by the Modell family.
I don't blame them.
Thank God this is over with for everyone in involved.
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at first I was angry when I read this thinking "the Modell family is now telling the Browns what we should do"... but it looks like Holmgren called the Modell family to see what they thought and they decided together to not do anything...
as you said I'm glad we aren't doing anything... of course I'm sure the media will continue to talk about how we didn't do anything to 'honor' his memory...
<><
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I think they had us in mind. They knew it was a bad and unfair position to be in.
Yeah, I'm sure more than anything they didn't want the spectacle of what could have happened tomorrow, but I really believe they were thinking of us as well.
I'm thankful for it. It was the right thing to do.
They still get their tribute in Baltimore and by all means, they should. I'm not going to watch it, all Browns fans won't be watching it.
Now on to football!
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But again, why should the Browns honor his memory? He acted dishonorably towards the Browns fans.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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But again, why should the Browns honor his memory? He acted dishonorably towards the Browns fans.
Absolutely.
If were headed to the game tomorrow, I would make sure that I wasn't in my seat for any tribute.
I'm not saying I'd boo or hurl insults, but I just don't want to be a part of it. Why should I? He was dead to me a long time ago.
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Yes, regardless of whose decision it was, it is in everyone's best interest.
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Thank the maker. Of all people, it was David Modell, according to Mary Kay, who requested that it not be done.
"My signature line goes here."
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But again, why should the Browns honor his memory? He acted dishonorably towards the Browns fans.
I agree 100%... if the NFL said we had to then I'm fine with doing something simple, but I'm happy we aren't...
<><
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http://www.foxsportsohio.com/09/08/12/Pl...amp;feedID=3724Pat McManamon joined FOXSportsOhio.com in July, 2011. Previously, Pat wrote for AOL Fanhouse, where he wrote national columns and provided analysis on a variety of sports, Prior, he was with the Akron Beacon Journal for more than 10 years, first as Cleveland Browns beat writer and then as the paper's sports columnist. More... Recommend email print Facebook September 8, 2012 The Browns have honored the request of Art Modell's family and decided not to recognize his death prior to Sunday's season opener against the Eagles. Browns president Mike Holmgren talked with Modell's son David, who asked on behalf of the family that nothing be done in Cleveland. The team's original decision to "appropriately" recognize Modell's death brought strong reaction from some Browns fans still angry at Modell's decision to move the team in 1995. The team had not planned a moment of silence or tribute to Modell, merely a brief statement of condolence to the Modell family similar to the statement the team released after his death on Thursday. Every other city in the league will hold a moment of silence or tribute to Modell prior to their openers. But in Cleveland, feelings remain too raw. Letting it go avoids potential expressions of anger the Modells -- and probably the Browns -- would rather not see. Modell owned the Browns from 1961-1995, but earned the vitriol of Browns fans when he decided to move the team to Baltimore after the '95 season. Modell later said he did so to avoid filing bankrutpcy. Tags: mike holmgren, Art Modell
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I have always had mixed feelings about Modell due to my experiences personally with the man...and I have mixed feelings about not recognizing his death in a classy way. I mean On one hand....why can't we be the "Bigger Man" so to speak. We don't have to "Like" the man...But we can show some class and respect. But on the other hand I understand the kick in the gut and the pain that is still there... I mean I AM old enough to have a full understanding of that pain....unlike a ton of the 20 year olds and some 30 year olds that flock to the stadium on game day.
But the question I really have to ask is more about those that are criticizing us. They will and are criticizing us for not recognizing Modell. Because "we don't have the class to" etc.... And A LOT of that angst is coming from Baltimore where Modell is considered a hero because he gave them a team to root for again...But I have to ask....What did Baltimore do when Robert Irsay died? Really I want to know...From what I have heard they had T-shirts with the Raven's logo peeing on Irsay's grave...I don't know if it is true...it is just what I have heard....
I hope we have more class than that...But I know there will be plenty of ignorant and drunk idiots buying classless T-shirts from guys looking to make a quick buck tomorrow...
I don't think I have fully forgiven Modell. Even now. I cared quite a bit for the man for the things he had done for me as well as the things he did as the Browns Owner....and in one fell swoop he took that all away (well not he alone but lets stay on topic) I think I may forgive him when we have a team that resembled the team we lost...One that was consistently in the hunt for playoffs and always in a huge rivalry with the Steelers...We don't have to be the 85 team every year...but we have to be competitive...and to this point we have looked like we could be beaten by some college teams. And Modell Is a HUGE reason for it...
I haven't forgiven the man...But I would show class at the stadium if recognition were made...I wish it could be said for the rest of Cleveland.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Good post, Pete. I've not seen it expressed better.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,401 |
I'm 29. I was 12 when I found out the team was moving. I remember having some sadness of my own, but the one thing that will never escape me is the image of my father when he found out the news. I've never seen a guy who I thought was Superman look so broken. Inside of me the heart ache of that image translates to rage and resentment.
I wouldn't go out of my way to disrespect that man, but I will NEVER respect him or wish him any sympathy. Any attempt on my part to do so would just be ingenuous to my true feelings which have become such a central part of my being.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,861
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,861 |
That was pretty well said Pete,
I was just listening to the news on Channel 3 as I was reading your post and they had a poll up,, 82% of respondents don't want any tribute to him, 18% do.
One guy interviewed was totally ignorant. He was angry because when they had a moment of silence, he wanted to be one of the ones that WASN'T silent.
Classless. But I understand his anger, just don't get why we need to be classless.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Just clicking...
Forgiveness is a funny thing. When you really break it down, it makes no sense for us (in this case, the fans that were affected by Art's choices) to hold on to anger for him. What purpose does it serve us? Seriously, what good does it do to be angry with him all these years later? He did what he did and it's over. It's been over for a very long time. It was over the day after it happened. Holding on to those emotions isn't healthy.
We don't have to LIKE him. We don't have to RESPECT him. But we should be able to let go for our own sanity. I don't care about him either way....he did some great things for football and some not so great things. Those were his choices. I can either move on with my life or not.
I'm willing to bet that Art was never at peace with his choices. I'm sure he was haunted since the day he up and moved. That's enough for me. He doesn't deserve to steal my energy and emotions. Why give him yours?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Art Modell is Dead
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