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Great post.
I think people on this board should read that over and over again until it sinks in.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I can agree with most of this. Good Post.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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I'll comment on your statement about people jumping on Weeden, which is no doubt true. Count me in the group of people who has been outwardly against (since April) our drafting of Weeden.
However, I do understand that it is not his fault that this fan base is so starved for a competent QB. In all reality, he's going to struggle .. fans will be up in arms .. and it could "ruin" his future.
Like you, I am going to reserve full judgment until we are a few weeks into the season. However, we must all understand this as well .. he SHOULD be held to a higher standard than Colt. He was drafted higher, has been praised much more by coaches and Holmgren, AND has better weapons around him. IMO, it's a recipe for disaster based on what I assume he will look like.
like the pick or not, we really need to give the kid a reasonable chance to show us his stuff. He's going to struggle I think. It's hard to imagine a scenario where he wouldn't.
The thing is, give it time, look at his Growth in the role. if he's improving,, slowly or quickly, but improving, you gotta sit back and just let it happen.
Like I said, I wasn't in favor of the weeden pick, but he's here now.. not a damn thing I can do about it, so being a Browns fan, I hope he succeeds.
I'm pulling for him to do just that. but I know it's not going to be a cake walk. That boy has some seroius work to do.,
And to be successful, Just like McCoy he's gonna need the help of the players that surround him.
What I don't want to hear at the end of the year is, he put the ball in thier hands and they dropped it. If I hear that from those that beat the hell out of McCoy and use it as an excuse for Weeden, I might just lose it.
This.
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I never heard anyone in the FO predict that Colt wuld be a "franchise QB". I saw a FO who mainly invested in building the D in the first two drafts and put the O on the back burner. To suggest otherwise would mean you weren't paying attention.  This is the first draft where they addressed the O in a big way. The evidence is obvious.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Simply stated, he's out of mulligans, and if Shurmur and Weeden fail, Holmgren deserves to be fired.
I'm pretty sure Heckert was really high on Weeden. I'm not convinced that was Holmgren or Shurmur pulling rank over Heckert.
Should Heckert be fired too by your logic?
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you can't expect All-Pros from the 3rd RD on of course. But it can be done.Just ask the Steelers,49ers and Bengals. Heck even the Bronco's found a legit up and comer in Eric Decker. The Ravens found a legit pass rusher in Pernell McPhee.
I said then I'll say it now...the Browns have to find some real game changers past the 2nd RD.Not just serviceable starters,but guys that can impact the game. do the Browns have anyone in the same league as Navarro Bowman or Mike Wallace?..no.
and so far Heckert has failed to find those types.
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Wallace was before Heckert got here, so if he counts so does Rubin who IS a dominant DT, just re-watch the last PIT game
Here's what the Steelers drafted from rounds 3 on in 2010 and 2011 :
CB C.Brown
CB C.Allen
LB C.Carter
G K.Williams
RB Batch
WR E.Sanders
LB T.Gibson
OT C.Scott
CB C.Butler
LB Sylvester
RB Dwyer
WR A:Brown
DE Worthington
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Quote:
I never heard anyone in the FO predict that Colt wuld be a "franchise QB".
I saw a FO who mainly invested in building the D in the first two drafts and put the O on the back burner.
To suggest otherwise would mean you weren't paying attention.
This is the first draft where they addressed the O in a big way. The evidence is obvious.
Pit ... that wouldn't fit Toadsters agenda to get Big Mike fired.
I think that we have had three pretty good Drafts under this FO ... one that Big Mike is responsible for hiring, but we still lack experience.
I know that he will label me a Holmgren apologist for this post 
I can't on one hand say that Heckert has done a good job without giving credit to Big Mike, because he is after all responsible for bringing him here.
Personally I want to let it play out on the field, before I start calling for heads to roll off the guillotine.
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also, I doubt anyone without Holmgren's NFL clout is able to assemble Heckert & the defensive coaching staff that came this way.
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its doesn't matter if Wallace was drafted before Heckert came on.
Point being, for the Browns to catapault pass the rest of the AFC North,you can't draft average starters like Lavoau and Marecic. you need game changers.
You have to be able to draft BETTER than those teams.
Right now the Browns don't have a WR that can equal to Wallace or Brown.
in todays passing dominated NFL,if you can find a stud WR in the mid RDs,you are that farther ahead.
Josh Gordon might be that WR some day who can stretch a field like Wallace.
I think Brown and Allen are 2nd on the depth charts.so with more teams going to 4 WR sets these days,your 3rd CB might as well be a starter.
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Let's go here...
being a Holmgren apologist is an interesting phrase because it is going on the premise that he is failing.
I'd call MYSELF a Holmgren supporter. Here is why. Holmgren as the president's job is not to make final decisions on the roster. That being said he has interjected to our GM to get guys on the roster, namely Seneca Wallace, Jake Delhomme, and Colt McCoy. the rest of the roster is on Heckert. That being said Heckert spent one year of roster building getting guys that could be good for Mangini, not Shurmur, so thats a short setback. That falls on Holmgren because he couldve ended that sooner, but he gave Mangini a fair shot. I get it, I appreciate it.
What Holmgren has done in the past 3 years is stabilized our FO. When guys like John Collins left, and other guys that have left our FO, Kokinis etc...they said that our FO was a disaster mess, thats gone. Thats done. It allowed our owner to sell for way more than expected (about 200 mil). Holmgren stabilized the FO.
As for our roster...Being young is a part of a rebuild. Just because Mangini and Savage tore down rosters in 11 seconds and replaced the whole team, doesnt make it the right way to do it.
Having our roster where it is now is exactly where it should be. When you have a new coach and philosophy, by the 2nd year of that direction, you should have a core in place.
we have TRich, Little, Cameron, Weeden, Gordon, Benjamin, DQ, Sheard, Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz, Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Eric Hagg, Buster Skrine/Trevin Wade, Phil Taylor, and Ahtyba Rubin. Thats 17/18 players in our "Core" guys. Thats pretty good for two years in the philosophy. We have a big core of guys that we plan to be a big part of the future.
Throw in guys that we have high hopes for and we have a lot of positive to build on.
A couple of things I want to refute.
TJ Ward barring his injury last year, has been top 10 in the NFL at SS.
our last FS guys...Mike Adams for 2 years and Abe Elam before him...thats not horrible. Yes Usama took snaps there and was awful, but he is a SS, and will be a good one (if he learns to wrap up better, he plays very well around the LOS)
Our guards...Pinkston started slow, but looked much better when we had RBs willing to hit holes (Hillis and Hardesty showed now willingness to do that...Hardesty still doesnt - Heckert's 1st miss, Marecic is 2nd, another story though). Lauvao, well, that's one that we havent been hugely successful with to this point, but he's played 2 years so far...His ceiling hasnt been reached, he is in his 2nd year as a starter, and his 3 year in the league. He isnt complete as a player in the NFL, and lets see if he gets there this year, if not, believe he will be gone. Also, he was affected by the RT grossness. With a steadier OT, he will look better, just like Pinkston has. Lauvao, wont be elite, but he will be fine for now. Miller will most likely push him for time.
we have an elite RB now and our depth is better (save for Hardesty, he stinks).
we have a much improved WR corps. Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Norwood, MoMass, and Cribbs are better than any combo we've had since Slaughter/Langhorne.
Our TEs are improved as evidenced by Moore being picked up right away.
Our DL is better. Our depth chart looks like this Sheard, Parker...So, Sheard gets the majority of the snaps and Juqua Parker backs him up, and gives him time off the field, and plays solidly as a backup. We arent expecting him to be a guy that is going to play 30 snaps and get 20 sacks. He's going to backup Sheard and give him rest. On the other side Rucker is the starter and Stephens will be his backup. We got him because Atlanta didnt have room for him and at the time they had a great DL. He is young and has flashed for us. He is going to be good, and with high hopes, maybe he becomes a full time guy.
DT...Winn, Hughes, Taylor, Rubin...great 4 man rotation. In addition, Kitchen is 330 lbs. Glad to see it. Thats a strength for us, and now we have a rotation.
LB...the contentious spot for all of us, because of the unknown. DQ is a stalwart, Gocong is good at his position when he's healthy. Fujita could be good depth. now we have JMJ, LJ Fort, Craig Robertson, and Tank Carder. Theyre all young and fast. that's what you want. young quick guys as backups.
CBs: Haden is a beast. Nevermind he didnt get many INTs last year, that will change mark my words. No #2 CB? Toad for real? Sheldon Brown has done it forever...okay, hes slowing down. Thats fine, Patterson, Skrine, and Wade could all EASILY step into the other spot and be FINE. be GOOD in fact.
at Safety...Ward and Young are both good at SS, and Hagg, Ventrone and Gipson bring unknown at FS, but Hagg and Gipson have flashed.
We're improved at every spot, except the ones we've kept the same, and in the NFL you plan for the guys that are the same to be better the following year. They have better knowledge of the system, they have better technique, and better knowledge of the NFL.
We're better this year, and we're younger than we've ever been. We went from oldest to youngest in 3 years. That's good in my opinion. We have an 18 man core that will make this team dangerous. In addition, we have 26 guys that we could keep here for years upon years, because theyre in their 1st or 2nd year. Great.
We have veteran leadership where needed. We have a guy thats done it for years in EVERY unit save for QB, but we have a guy thats started in 2 years. Joe Thomas, Colt McCoy (least exp of all leaders), MoMass/Cribbs, Watson/Smith, Rucker/Rubin, DQ/Fujita, Sheldon Brown, Ventrone/Ward
Theres the leadership you need everywhere.
We're improved in year 3. Thats all you need to be. Improved from year to year, especially in the early years of a coaches tenure
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
also, I doubt anyone without Holmgren's NFL clout is able to assemble Heckert & the defensive coaching staff that came this way.
Yeah ... that's another thing that bothers me with calling for heads to roll. That's the other side of the coin, who would we be replacing this FO with?
The best in the business are either working or not working/retired by choice.
I think that the players need to be accountable and they are the only ones who can prove this FO right.
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the FO has made their mistakes too. no doubts about that. we should have had a more experienced offensive staff from the get-go for Shurmur, we shouldn't have wasted a year with the failed experiment of utilizing Mangini & Holmgren's systems, etc. but, I hope all this talk is moot in a few weeks 
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He's made a career on being 'squirrelly'. One has to wonder if the success that he's had has been the result of those surrounding him and in spite of him.
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Quote:
the FO has made their mistakes too. no doubts about that.
we should have had a more experienced offensive staff from the get-go for Shurmur, we shouldn't have wasted a year with the failed experiment of utilizing Mangini & Holmgren's systems, etc.
but, I hope all this talk is moot in a few weeks
Oh I believe that in retrospect you can see some blunders made ... like I thought that we should have hired Chilly last year too, but I don't see any major blunders that are not fixable.
I really love this current Coaching staff and the experience they bring to the table.
Good Coach's have to also be good teachers (especially with a very young group of players).
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Quote:
its doesn't matter if Wallace was drafted before Heckert came on.
Point being, for the Browns to catapault pass the rest of the AFC North,you can't draft average starters like Lavoau and Marecic. you need game changers.
You have to be able to draft BETTER than those teams.
Right now the Browns don't have a WR that can equal to Wallace or Brown.
in todays passing dominated NFL,if you can find a stud WR in the mid RDs,you are that farther ahead.
Josh Gordon might be that WR some day who can stretch a field like Wallace.
I think Brown and Allen are 2nd on the depth charts.so with more teams going to 4 WR sets these days,your 3rd CB might as well be a starter.
A.Brown as a Brown with McCoy throwing to him would havß had the same stats as Norwood or Cribbs....he's not more talented than a guy like Benjamin. The QB and the Offense being on the field more makes the difference..he gets the looks/targets to produce big time numbers...he's FAR from a game changer, he had 2 TDs in 69 catches....he's a product of who's throwing to him
If Brown and Allen are good picks then so are Skrine and Wade, all 4 are 3rd/4th CBs...and Brown and Allen were picked much higher...and NONE of those 4 are close to being difference makers yet, so if Heckert did "meh" with those 2, so did the Steelers
That's my problem with your "logic"...too often it's a case of "the grass is greener..." without really having ever watched those other guys play...as soon as they become Browns they get trashed (see Rucker/Parker who were pretty solid Pros for 7+ years now).
The REAL difference maker is the QB position....and that's the one that needs to get fixed...Weeden is a roll of the dice and if we luck out on him everything else will look sooo much better: OL, WR, Defense...I guarantee you that
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There is no doubt that the overall talent level of the roster has been upgraded since Eric Mangini was fired. Theres alot of promise.
But in 2012,I see a 4-6 win team at the best.
take yourself back to when Holmgren was hired..how many wins would you
say the Browns would have in 2012?
the maturation of this team could have been accelerated a bit faster if the Browns would have be active in FA.
the depth of the or the lack of on the o-line and LB'ers is troubling.
not bringing a seasoned WR could come back to bite the front office
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I think that our depth for LBs and OL is adequate. That being said injuries and suspensions have wreaked havoc on it.
Greco and Cousins are hurt (and Cousins is horrible...idk why he's still here)
JMJ and Gocong are hurt, plus Fujita is suspended. While we have that, Fort, Robertson, and Carder are still in the fold. We'll have 5 bodies playing on Sunday at LB, which is fine, and if Greco can get healthy we'll be fine. Miller can play anywhere it seems, and Cousins, hopefully never has to see the field.
The maturation isnt there, but at the same time. How would we feel about a guy like say Trevin Wade going into late this season or next season if we brought in a guy like Stanford Routt.
How would we feel about a guy like Josh Gordon going into next year if we signed a Josh Morgan or Pierre Garcon. Garcon would be an exception because he is still young.
While we're young. We have guys getting valuable experience that while it may set us back a little bit (i dont think a lot because young guys play well if they have talent) in the short term, it will benefit us a TON in the long term.
this youth movement is the best thing Cleveland has done since the return. bar none.
Lots of youth, mixed in with a veteran leader in EVERY unit (Colt being the least experienced leader, but Weeden has pro experience and age, combined theyll lead each other becautifully) in my opinion will give us a huge huge start towards being great. With the potential of greatness this year if these guys pop.
Plus we have a core of 17-18 guys that we look to the future to be our backbone. Thats a good thing.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
He's made a career on being 'squirrelly'. One has to wonder if the success that he's had has been the result of those surrounding him and in spite of him.
yep, he just happened to get purely lucky and had no part in the success at BYU, 80s 49ers, 90s Packers, and 00s Seahawks. And, despite the success being "in spite of him" each place he continued to receive promotions. Nope, purely coincidental 
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Quote:
Quote:
He's made a career on being 'squirrelly'. One has to wonder if the success that he's had has been the result of those surrounding him and in spite of him.
yep, he just happened to get purely lucky and had no part in the success at BYU, 80s 49ers, 90s Packers, and 00s Seahawks. And, despite the success being "in spite of him" each place he continued to receive promotions. Nope, purely coincidental
Mike Holmgren is either worthy of his accomplishments or he is a master of illusions.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
He's made a career on being 'squirrelly'. One has to wonder if the success that he's had has been the result of those surrounding him and in spite of him.
yep, he just happened to get purely lucky and had no part in the success at BYU, 80s 49ers, 90s Packers, and 00s Seahawks. And, despite the success being "in spite of him" each place he continued to receive promotions. Nope, purely coincidental
Mike Holmgren is either worthy of his accomplishments or he is a master of illusions.
lucky rabbit's foot?
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There are a whole lot of Browns fans that are not going to say anything positive about this team and honestly they seem disappointed when the Browns do play well. We lose a preseason game and its the end of the world, the regime sucks. We look good and win in preseason and well its just preseason.
If the Browns make them so miserable when the season hasnt started maybe they should go root for buffalo.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
He's made a career on being 'squirrelly'. One has to wonder if the success that he's had has been the result of those surrounding him and in spite of him.
yep, he just happened to get purely lucky and had no part in the success at BYU, 80s 49ers, 90s Packers, and 00s Seahawks. And, despite the success being "in spite of him" each place he continued to receive promotions. Nope, purely coincidental
Mike Holmgren is either worthy of his accomplishments or he is a master of illusions.
lucky rabbit's foot?
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If the Browns make them so miserable when the season hasnt started maybe they should go root for buffalo.
I think the real problem is... give us a competent team we can stomach to root for. it's been 23-24 years since we had any consisency in that department since 1988. mind you... I was 7 in 1988
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Come on Mourgrym , I expect better from YOU !
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I love good debate. I dont mind discussing the positives and the negatives but this offseason has been nothing but nonstop whining and bitching from a large segment of posters. It is not all sunshine and roses but it sure as hell ain't the big pile of dog crap many are making this out to be.
It is a young team. What they lack in experience, they make up for in athleticism and competitiveness. This is going to be a fun team to watch and cheer for. I really dont understand the negativity towards these kids and this regime.
Maybe we should go out and sign more guys like Delhomme, Lewis, Garcia, Lecharles Bentley, Gary Baxter since all those big name free agents have worked out so well for us over the years.
We are less than 48 hrs from opening day kickoff and the debut of these Baby Brownies. I am pumped and I believe everyone should be.
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I'm pumped too. I think this team will look really good at times and really bad at times.. in the end I think they will lose some winnable games simply because of lack of experience, which is why I have a hard time putting us at .500 or better.
I think the foundation is laid for a very bright future if the Browns can build on it instead of tearing it apart and starting over... yet it seems all some people want to do is complain about some of the pieces we don't have yet.
yebat' Putin
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eh I live in Buffalo...
Buffalo torments their fans even harder...however, constant complainers would fit in. Buffalo is one bad play away from being down on their team...just as every year.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
Quote:
He's made a career on being 'squirrelly'. One has to wonder if the success that he's had has been the result of those surrounding him and in spite of him.
yep, he just happened to get purely lucky and had no part in the success at BYU, 80s 49ers, 90s Packers, and 00s Seahawks. And, despite the success being "in spite of him" each place he continued to receive promotions. Nope, purely coincidental
He ain't showing me a damned thing in Cleveland and the success at all those stops along the way weren't because of him, but because of others.
Belicheck has had success in New England but couldn't get it in Cleveland Why?
Schottenheimer had success in Cleveland and KC and San Diego. Why?
I'm not buying into the 'genius' of Holmgren. Not one bit. If he's the genius that you think he is, shouldn't Haslam keep him? We'll have to see if that happens. Somehow, I think that Holmgren will be shown the door and the one he exits will have a shiny new lock on it.
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Mike Holmgren is ... a master of illusions.
Pretty much how I see it.
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There are a whole lot of Browns fans that are not going to say anything positive about this team and honestly they seem disappointed when the Browns do play well. We lose a preseason game and its the end of the world, the regime sucks. We look good and win in preseason and well its just preseason.
If the Browns make them so miserable when the season hasnt started maybe they should go root for buffalo.
Maybe so. They're closer geographically and they have a better team. It wouldn't be hard to do.
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the success at all those stops along the way weren't because of him, but because of others.
well, I don't think Holmgren is a genius. I detailed some of the mistakes I think he made above. But, I also think he deserves some of the credit for his successes in his career, yes.
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Quote:
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If the Browns make them so miserable when the season hasnt started maybe they should go root for buffalo.
I think the real problem is... give us a competent team we can stomach to root for. it's been 23-24 years since we had any consisency in that department since 1988. mind you... I was 7 in 1988
I think Mourgrym (More Grim?) is too contented in the miserable excuse for a football team that he knows nothing else. He simply accepts that the Browns will be the laughing stock of the NFL and he's okay with it.
I'll add that like most everyone else, I had high hopes when Holmgren was brought to town and brought Heckert with him. I must say that I've soured tremendously since that time. Five year plans are for communists, not football teams! Teams rise and fall every year in the NFL and every other major sport (MLB, NBA, NHL, etc.) but not the Browns. They remain incredibly bad, year after year after year.
I don't need to remind anyone of Mike Polk's 'Factory of Sadness' commentary, do I?
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I think Mourgrym (More Grim?) is too contented in the miserable excuse for a football team that he knows nothing else. He simply accepts that the Browns will be the laughing stock of the NFL and he's okay with it.
This is exactly what I am talking about. You are talking about this miserable excuse for a team and they have yet to play 1 freaking snap this season. I wonder if Colt McCoy was starting if you might be taking a different view of the Holmgren regime lol.
This team is vastly different from last year so explain to me what your view on this miserable excuse for a team.
I mean Obviously it must be the rookie QB that has yet to play an actual game. Maybe it is the RB? No wait he hasnt played a game either. Well we had the big hole at RT last year. Darn, yea we drafted a kid to fix that problem too. OO i know i bet we need an upgrade at receivers that must be it? damn drafted 2 of those also.
Wow we have all these new faces and none have played in a probowl yet? We should take Holmgren out and beat him with a hose.
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I love good debate. I dont mind discussing the positives and the negatives but this offseason has been nothing but nonstop whining and bitching from a large segment of posters. It is not all sunshine and roses but it sure as hell ain't the big pile of dog crap many are making this out to be.
Yes, I think that this team really is as bad as I'm making it out to be. Go ahead and get your hopes up of winning just 6 miserable games and then having even those low expectations seem like pathetic homerism.
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It is a young team. What they lack in experience, they make up for in athleticism and competitiveness. This is going to be a fun team to watch and cheer for. I really dont understand the negativity towards these kids and this regime.
Competitiveness? Kind of being hopeful, aren't you?
You don't understand why fans are negative? Well, tell me what you find hard to understand about not being joyful about 4-12 or 5-11 seasons for 4 years running and when the fans get erotically aroused daydreaming about 6 wins!
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Maybe we should go out and sign more guys like Delhomme, Lewis, Garcia, Lecharles Bentley, Gary Baxter since all those big name free agents have worked out so well for us over the years.
Who has said that? Maybe trying to get actual free agents with more than 1 season left in them might be a good approach. Sadly, being a badly performing franchise isn't going to land you many talented free agents. Over the past several years, the Buffalo Bills have only been marginally better than the Browns, but they've gotten to 7 wins a few times and average about 6 wins a season. They were able to land Mario Williams and we didn't even try to get him. The Browns had cap space to attempt some bold free agency moves. They essentially stood pat and lost.
They were going to go 'all-in' for RG3 (which I opposed) and I'm glad that they didn't but then they went and drafted a 28-y.o. rookie! Seriously?! Nobody in any team's front office saw that coming! Everyone thought that was a mistake and yet, we're to believe that this group of 4-12s and 5-11s are smarter than everyone else? I hope that you're kidding!
You still don't understand why fans are fed up with these people?
Then, they trade away valuable picks to move up 1 spot! Okay, most NFL teams thought highly of Richardson, but they could have stood pat at #4 and gotten a great player still. Nope, they had to overspend to move up one spot to get Richardson at #4. That's higher than the RB that he's been compared with, namely Peterson, who went #7 to the Vikes in 2007. Maybe Richardson will be the next Jim Brown, I don't know. Coincidentally, Jim Brown went #6 in the 1957 NFL draft. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone that's too critical of selecting Richardson, but that we moved up to #3 to get him is absolutely a valid point of contention.
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We are less than 48 hrs from opening day kickoff and the debut of these Baby Brownies. I am pumped and I believe everyone should be.
Go ahead. Be my guest in getting all psyched up. I have low expectations for this team. I hope they're exceeded in a tremendous way, but I have no false hopes about them. Not because of all of the players, but because of how the front office (Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur, & Co.) have set this franchise back yet another year.
Here's to the Browns winning and making the playoffs (yeah, that's still my demands of this team - without excuses) but I certainly don't expect more than 2 or 3 wins out of them. If we reach 4 or 5 wins, I'll be shocked (not really pleasantly). More than 5 wins and I'll be flabbergasted into silence. If they win enough to make the playoffs, I'll suggest that Jesus Christ was actually playing for the team and performing miracles.
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Legend
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That's the problem. It's okay to be negative, but be reasonable and explain your rationale rather than just taking an atomic bomb dump on everything.
How did you get your name, anyway?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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...yet it seems all some people want to do is complain about some of the pieces we don't have yet.
Like a competent front office? 
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All Pro
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yah I dont see the doom and gloom like many on this board and Peter King of SI.
Weeden good or bad, this team has improved at several positions and have better depth than last year. We have more team speed and drafted pretty well overall.
If Weeden gets it 8 win max... if he dont 4 win bottom. I dont see this team regressing with the additions of a quality RB and Lineman. We are solid in the trenches on both sides of the ball. we could use better depth with the o-line... imo.
I do believe we will be competitive and if we can get rid of the stupid mistakes and penalties, I think we will be pleasantly surprised with the product on the field.
I would love to see what this board would have said if we didn't have all those unforunate timely breakdowns last year and ended up 8-8 or 7-9.
I also believe we could win both games against Pitt this year. They are banged up and havent really replaced who they lost in off season. I dont see them being a playoff team this year at all.
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well, I don't think Holmgren is a genius. I detailed some of the mistakes I think he made above. But, I also think he deserves some of the credit for his successes in his career, yes.
Okay. I'll give him partial credit for those successes, but I won't say that he was the driving force behind those successes.
Today, in Cleveland, he's the driving force behind the failures. As a Browns fan, I don't care what he's done in his past career. I only care what he's done for this team. I see next to nothing to get all the tingles up my leg about (apologies to Chris Matthews but that's not solely your purview).
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