Let me preface this by saying that I voted for Bush and Obama. With that said, I'd like to express my views as an independent on the candidates.
Republicans - I just don't get it. I'm not sure if it's the Tea Party influence, the Limbaugh influence, the religious influence, or the racist influence but somewhere this party has become so alien to me they may never get another of my votes. Seriously, Mitt Romney is the best candidate you could put forward? And Ryan is what you consider a viable back up for the most powerful position in the world? It's like McCain and Palin all over again!
Romney has no direction what so ever that I can tell... I think he panders to anybody that will listen and is about the most inept candidate I have ever seen (next to Palin). Ryan is like McCain... Not sure I would be comfortable letting that guy have his finger near the button...
If your candidate had more of a Ron Paul idealism I might have gone your way, but Ron Paul is a joke to Republicans. Heck, maybe Buddy Roemer would have made a good presidential candidate... You might have even had me on the fence with Huntsman! But wow, these guys didn't even get the slightest consideration... Nope. Instead you marched out the likes of Herman Cain, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry! WHAT? OMG! Are you kidding me?
Then EACH in turn takes a slice of Romney and surges toward the front showing just how excited Republicans were to give Romney the nod...
And Republican views on the female body, gay rights and health care are ridiculous to me. THIS IS NOT THE YEAR 1776! Women are our equals, their bodies belong to them, don't even think about legislating that. Gays are here, they will always be here and they are in every part of our society, treat them like people instead of problems for CHRIST's sake. Really ask yourselves WWJD?
As for national health care, this subject is VERY important to me. I don't like the Obama Care law after your party twisted and mangled it in back room deals. BUT it is better than letting people die who simply can't afford care. What kind of person denies somebody, anybody health care? What a selfish, cruel and cowardly stance on probably one of the most important economic issues of our day! A single payer system would solve so many issues... yet You simply refuse to believe it. Just like global warming... be an ostrich and stick your heads in the sand... idiots.
Please, Please, Please Republicans return to your former platforms... Think about the middle class as more than a stepping stone. Think about what IS good for the country. Think about a strong American economy and military.
Quit chasing the almighty dollar long enough to get your senses back... Lose some of (more if possible) the wing nuts and try to move toward the center a little more. Reagan did great things because he reached across the aisle... The just say NO thing is screwing the country and I for one BLAME YOU.
Democrats - Barack Obama is not the man you thought he was. He was supposed to bring about CHANGE for the good. He has failed.
I lay a lot of the blame at the feet of the Republicans, but Obama gets his fair share too. He has let his administration be bullied by the good old boys and gave in on what was decent legislation, allowing the GOP to make the health care law a GOOD thing for insurance companies... Screw the insurance middlemen, health care should be a single payer system like every other great country in the world. Fail Obama.
Ending the wars? Sure Obama ended the war in Iraq. BUT WHAT ABOUT AFGHANISTAN MR PRESIDENT? We got our man... bring em home now.
GITMO... glad you didn't close it... but remember you saying you would! Fail.
New Energy, Middle Class Jobs, Strong Economy, Change in Washington... still waiting Barack... promises promises... same ole same ole. Fail.
Who spent (or cost the country) more money Bush or Obama? Really cant tell.
How did all the crooks on Wall Street get away with doing this to the country? Did you pardon them?
How about those banks holding all that money and not making loans? Wasn't that the reason we bailed them out?
Mr. Obama, I feel let down on so many issues that I've simply quit trying to keep track of them... Yet here you are, the great orator with that billion dollar smile telling me all over again how you (we) are on the right path...
You can thank Bill and Hillary for getting you my vote this year. I voted against Bill twice... turns out I was completely wrong on him.
You can also thank the Republicans for failing once again to put up a REAL candidate. If they could only get back in touch with reality and discard the cult leadership they have been following... Maybe somebody like me wouldn't have to vote by default.
I actually agree with a lot of your post, but you're way off base with blaming the republicans for "twisting and mangling" the health care bill. The GOP didn't force any changes to that BS Obamacare plan. Our "transparancy president" and his staff locked themselves into a room with insurance and drug company execs and hammered out that piece of crap bill.....no republicans were present and no input was sought or received. They were presented the 2200 page bill days before it went to a vote. Don't you remember Pelosi saying, "we have to pass it before we can see what's in it"?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
I wanted a strong republican candidate this time and what I got was Romney. I said 2 years ago, if the Republicans put up a good, solid candidate, he or she would get my vote..
They failed.. I can't believe anyone can actually get behind Romney.
Been saying it for months now, we have a choice between dumb and dumber and I don't know which is which.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
As I see it, at the heart of the republican base you have a lot of solid fiscal conservatives, yes they are social conservatives as well, people just need to deal with it. the very word conservative means slow or resistant to change. This country has changed considerably and its not hard to see that a lot of it hasn't been for the better.
The problem is that republicans keep getting duped into thinking they have to run somebody that is "electable"... read that as "more like a democrat"... once, just once, run a real fiscal conservative and see what happens. PLEASE!!!!!!!
Quote: As I see it, at the heart of the republican base you have a lot of solid fiscal conservatives, yes they are social conservatives as well, people just need to deal with it. the very word conservative means slow or resistant to change. This country has changed considerably and its not hard to see that a lot of it hasn't been for the better.
The problem is that republicans keep getting duped into thinking they have to run somebody that is "electable"... read that as "more like a democrat"... once, just once, run a real fiscal conservative and see what happens. PLEASE!!!!!!!
There hasn't been a fiscally conservative candidate since the 70's, unfortunately.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
and now I have Adam Sandler's "At a medium pace" stuck in my head.
::shudders::
As for the topic.... even if I don't agree with you on each bullet item, I join you in the general feeling that both candidates are the worst possible choice for us. Neither one holds any promise of things getting better.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
As someone who doesn't vote along party lines (call me an independent if you will), I can't agree more with what you've said overall. I could have minor disagreements and add a few things, but you've covered things very well. I really don't know who to vote for...as I want neither.
Quote: Republicans - I just don't get it. I'm not sure if it's the Tea Party influence, the Limbaugh influence, the religious influence, or the racist influence but somewhere this party has become so alien to me they may never get another of my votes.
Quote: And Republican views on the female body, gay rights and health care are ridiculous to me. THIS IS NOT THE YEAR 1776! Women are our equals, their bodies belong to them, don't even think about legislating that. Gays are here, they will always be here and they are in every part of our society, treat them like people instead of problems for CHRIST's sake. Really ask yourselves WWJD?
Quote: As for national health care, this subject is VERY important to me. I don't like the Obama Care law after your party twisted and mangled it in back room deals. BUT it is better than letting people die who simply can't afford care. What kind of person denies somebody, anybody health care? What a selfish, cruel and cowardly stance on probably one of the most important economic issues of our day! A single payer system would solve so many issues... yet You simply refuse to believe it. Just like global warming... be an ostrich and stick your heads in the sand... idiots.
Sorry, not buying that you're independent. Just because you don't like Obama doesn't make you so.
All very good points and a definitely interesting read.
Quote: He has let his administration be bullied by the good old boys and gave in on what was decent legislation, allowing the GOP to make the health care law a GOOD thing for insurance companies
This is - by far - my biggest issue with Obama. For 8 years the Democratic party leadership spouted the line "George Bush could push whatever legislation he essentially wanted due to the close nature of Congress. If only we had some more power, things would be so different". So, 2008, we have a Democratic Senate, House and President. This is when I thought things would actually start to happen. However, the Democratic party had no spine and no leadership. They were essentially slapped around by the GOP and did not get nearly as much done even though they controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency. It became quickly apparent to me that the GOP was not going to cooperate, so what the Democrats SHOULD have done is say "forget it" and actually pass some important legislation (the equal pay law not withstanding).
Instead, they wasted 2 years dragging their feet, lost control of Congress and made any real change impossible. A golden opportunity was gone and they let just the threat of a filibuster bastardize what could have been a huge victory for liberals in the form of a comprehensive single-payer healthcare plan that is the hallmark of pretty much every other modern Western democracy.
Quote: For 8 years, George Bush could push whatever legislation he essentially wanted due to the close nature of Congress. So, 2008, the nation chooses to elect a Democratic Senate, House and President
Wrong, 2006 they elected a Democratic House and Senate. The final two years Bush had office the Dems controlled Congress. Then when Obama was elected in 2008 the Dems got a Super Majority in the Senate. They lost control of the house in the 2010 elections.
So the Dems have controlled the Senate the last six years, the Presidency the last 4 years and the House 4 out of the last 6 years, yet this was all the Republicans fault, Democrats have no blame at all for the shape of the economy today. (that wasn't directed at you Joker just a general argument I hear from democrats).
Umm .... what the hell did Republicans contribute to the healthcare law???
They tried to add provisions, but were blocked at every turn, and they lacked even the ability to filibuster when the healthcare law was passed.
Republicans had nothing to do with this monstrosity. In the Senate, one Republican voted for the law. In the House, all Republicans and 34 Democrats voted against it.
To get it passed in the Senate, they added the "Cornhusker Kickback", which bought Bill Nelson's vote in exchange for a higher Medicaid reimbursement.This was, of course, repealed in a later version because it would have been horrible politics and probably Unconstitutional.
This was a Democrat bill, Democrat law, and Democrat administration of the law. It is a massive increase of government employment, as we need to hire actuaries, accountants, administrators, help desk personnel, people to make decisions on healthcare, additional IRS personnel to work on implementing the tax changes, and so on.
Republicans didn't write this mess, they didn't vote for it, and they did everything they could to make changes. Unfortunately, at the time they were completely helpless to even filibuster. There were no deals for the Republicans. I don't know where you get that idea from. This was 120% all Democrats.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: For 8 years, George Bush could push whatever legislation he essentially wanted due to the close nature of Congress. So, 2008, the nation chooses to elect a Democratic Senate, House and President
Wrong, 2006 they elected a Democratic House and Senate. The final two years Bush had office the Dems controlled Congress. Then when Obama was elected in 2008 the Dems got a Super Majority in the Senate. They lost control of the house in the 2010 elections.
So the Dems have controlled the Senate the last six years, the Presidency the last 4 years and the House 4 out of the last 6 years, yet this was all the Republicans fault, Democrats have no blame at all for the shape of the economy today. (that wasn't directed at you Joker just a general argument I hear from democrats).
It's amazing how people don't even realize this. They think that the Republicans were voted out with the end of Bush's term, and that's simply not the case.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: For 8 years, George Bush could push whatever legislation he essentially wanted due to the close nature of Congress. So, 2008, the nation chooses to elect a Democratic Senate, House and President
Wrong, 2006 they elected a Democratic House and Senate. The final two years Bush had office the Dems controlled Congress. Then when Obama was elected in 2008 the Dems got a Super Majority in the Senate. They lost control of the house in the 2010 elections.
So the Dems have controlled the Senate the last six years, the Presidency the last 4 years and the House 4 out of the last 6 years, yet this was all the Republicans fault, Democrats have no blame at all for the shape of the economy today. (that wasn't directed at you Joker just a general argument I hear from democrats).
It's amazing how people don't even realize this. They think that the Republicans were voted out with the end of Bush's term, and that's simply not the case.
If you read my post from above and talk to other liberals, you'll see that plenty of people realize it and are very dissatisfied by the current Democratic Party because they don't take a stand on things and allow the instances where they have actual control pass without any major reform.
The individual mandate is a pitch the Republicans began making in the late 80's as an alternative to the single-payer system, which we should have.
And I don't know that Obama caved spinelessly as so many seemed to think. The guy is right of center, ideologically. A lot of folks think he's being weak or compromising, but take a closer look at his policies and actions - that's who the guy is.
I disagree with most of your post. I stand here dumbfounded on many of your bullet points.
Romney might be the most qualified candidate for president in history.
Women's bodies are sacred. Tell that to the woman who has been living in a womb for months and is then purposely killed.
I really don't have time now to get into all your points but man you got to re-examine some things and take a long look at what the Tea Party actually stands for and why fiscal conservatism is the best path to save this country.
Quote: For 8 years, George Bush could push whatever legislation he essentially wanted due to the close nature of Congress. So, 2008, the nation chooses to elect a Democratic Senate, House and President
Wrong, 2006 they elected a Democratic House and Senate. The final two years Bush had office the Dems controlled Congress. Then when Obama was elected in 2008 the Dems got a Super Majority in the Senate. They lost control of the house in the 2010 elections.
So the Dems have controlled the Senate the last six years, the Presidency the last 4 years and the House 4 out of the last 6 years, yet this was all the Republicans fault, Democrats have no blame at all for the shape of the economy today. (that wasn't directed at you Joker just a general argument I hear from democrats).
let's take it even further....
Following the 2000 election, the U.S. Senate was split between 50 Democrat-held seats and 50 Republican-held seats while the Republicans had an extremely slim majority in the House of Representatives. However, this situation changed on May 24, 2001, when the liberal Republican Senator Jim Jeffords switched his party affiliation to become the only Independent senator and announced that he would caucus with the Democrats.
Quote: As I see it, at the heart of the republican base you have a lot of solid fiscal conservatives, yes they are social conservatives as well, people just need to deal with it. the very word conservative means slow or resistant to change. This country has changed considerably and its not hard to see that a lot of it hasn't been for the better.
The problem is that republicans keep getting duped into thinking they have to run somebody that is "electable"... read that as "more like a democrat"... once, just once, run a real fiscal conservative and see what happens. PLEASE!!!!!!!
There hasn't been a fiscally conservative candidate since the 70's, unfortunately.
I would suggest that Bush, the father, was probably the last one.
There is a difference between fiscally conservative and the type of ideologically driven "braindead" conservatism that is practiced by the tea party, Ron Paul and the far right.
I disagree with most of your post. I stand here dumbfounded on many of your bullet points.
Romney might be the most qualified candidate for president in history.
Women's bodies are sacred. Tell that to the woman who has been living in a womb for months and is then purposely killed.
I really don't have time now to get into all your points but man you got to re-examine some things and take a long look at what the Tea Party actually stands for and why fiscal conservatism is the best path to save this country.
I don't believe for one second that the Tea Party is needed to "save this country". We did pretty well without them. In fact, I would believe that this country would be worse off if we went down that road.
Quote: Why do you consider Ron Paul brain dead....because he's old?
No, age has nothing to do with it. Ron Paul's Libertarian philosophy is not for me. It represents an overly simplistic approach to the role of government that is ideologically based.
Quote: Democrats - Barack Obama is not the man you thought he was. He was supposed to bring about CHANGE for the good. He has failed . . . Mr. Obama, I feel let down on so many issues that I've simply quit trying to keep track of them...
And yet you will still vote for him? You are going to cast your vote affirming that the man you call a failure needs four more years to continue failing?
Considering the type of man Mitt Romney is do you really think he will allow the extreme to become law?
I have to say I respect you Charger.. not many people are willing to admit that they believe the government should be bigger and cradle to grave providers of the common good.
I disagree with most of your post. I stand here dumbfounded on many of your bullet points.
Romney might be the most qualified candidate for president in history.
Women's bodies are sacred. Tell that to the woman who has been living in a womb for months and is then purposely killed.
I really don't have time now to get into all your points but man you got to re-examine some things and take a long look at what the Tea Party actually stands for and why fiscal conservatism is the best path to save this country.
I don't believe for one second that the Tea Party is needed to "save this country". We did pretty well without them. In fact, I would believe that this country would be worse off if we went down that road.
I agree. Originally, when the Tea Party started popping up, I thought they could serve a purpose in getting the conversation shifted to lowering the debt, reforming the tax code, etc. but soon it became apparent to me that the party was led by idiots and that there was absolutely no coherent message, but it was instead a rebranding of the GOP For example, this is an interview with the Tea Party chair..not some random member, but the actual chair and this is the best she can do?
To me, the Tea Party has people that are genuinely interested in changing things, but as long as people like this are running the show, I will never be able to take them seriously.
The extremists of each party are controlling the party now. Those in the center are being pushed out and replaced by the extreme left or the extreme right. The 2 party system no longer functions.
Quote: For example, this is an interview with the Tea Party chair..not some random member, but the actual chair and this is the best she can do?
She's not the Tea Party chair.
Sorry, she is Chair of Tea Party EXPRESS, one of the biggest Tea Party groups and is one of the founders of that "movement" including being a co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots.
Quote: For example, this is an interview with the Tea Party chair..not some random member, but the actual chair and this is the best she can do?
She's not the Tea Party chair.
Sorry, she is Chair of Tea Party EXPRESS, one of the biggest Tea Party groups and is one of the founders of that "movement" including being a co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots.
So, you were wrong. She is not the chair person of the TEA party - is that correct?
Hey, ever been in a situation where you were discussing things with 3 or 4 other people that don't agree with you?
My point is, there is no "Tea Party Chair" that I'm aware of... each group acts independently and sets their own agenda... yes there are similarities between them... but none have any say in what the others say or do.
Quote: For example, this is an interview with the Tea Party chair..not some random member, but the actual chair and this is the best she can do?
She's not the Tea Party chair.
Sorry, she is Chair of Tea Party EXPRESS, one of the biggest Tea Party groups and is one of the founders of that "movement" including being a co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots.
So, you were wrong. She is not the chair person of the TEA party - is that correct?
I clarified what I meant. My point still stands. Instead of focusing on her title, she is unquestionably a leader and founder of the movement and has had major roles in creating perhaps the two most powerful.
Instead of focusing on the technicality that she in not the chair of the entire Tea Party movement - since no such person exists - I think it's more important to focus on what she says.
Quote: Hey, ever been in a situation where you were discussing things with 3 or 4 other people that don't agree with you?
That has nothing to do with anything. It's not like they were "grilling" her or didn't give her a chance to speak, they just asked her why she thinks he doesn't love America and her answer was - well I'm not sure what her answer in that entire diatribe actually was. She's the spokesperson for the Tea Party Express, one of the founders of the movement and is just blabbing on about nothing. It doesn't matter if she's talking to one person or 10, she is clearly an idiot and if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.
Quote: I have to say I respect you Charger.. not many people are willing to admit that they believe the government should be bigger and cradle to grave providers of the common good.
Yep, all because I learned math and took an economics class.
Quote: I have to say I respect you Charger.. not many people are willing to admit that they believe the government should be bigger and cradle to grave providers of the common good.
I lean more towards Reagan's line, the nine scariest words you'll ever hear, "We're from the government and we're here to help".
Quote: I have to say I respect you Charger.. not many people are willing to admit that they believe the government should be bigger and cradle to grave providers of the common good.
Yep, all because I learned math and took an economics class.
Who there Dawg .. Just because folks have different ideological view than yours dosn't make them wrong or uneducated .. Being a fiscal conservative makes me stupid , dumb ? What ? PS; I have thought of as in the middle !
Quote: Why do you consider Ron Paul brain dead....because he's old?
No, age has nothing to do with it. Ron Paul's Libertarian philosophy is not for me. It represents an overly simplistic approach to the role of government that is ideologically based.
Guess I'm brain dead too in your opinion. Good to know!
Quote: Republicans - I just don't get it. I'm not sure if it's the Tea Party influence, the Limbaugh influence, the religious influence, or the racist influence but somewhere this party has become so alien to me they may never get another of my votes.
Quote: And Republican views on the female body, gay rights and health care are ridiculous to me. THIS IS NOT THE YEAR 1776! Women are our equals, their bodies belong to them, don't even think about legislating that. Gays are here, they will always be here and they are in every part of our society, treat them like people instead of problems for CHRIST's sake. Really ask yourselves WWJD?
Quote: As for national health care, this subject is VERY important to me. I don't like the Obama Care law after your party twisted and mangled it in back room deals. BUT it is better than letting people die who simply can't afford care. What kind of person denies somebody, anybody health care? What a selfish, cruel and cowardly stance on probably one of the most important economic issues of our day! A single payer system would solve so many issues... yet You simply refuse to believe it. Just like global warming... be an ostrich and stick your heads in the sand... idiots.
Sorry, not buying that you're independent. Just because you don't like Obama doesn't make you so.
Agreed, that and his past posts would not lead me to believe that about him.
I've voted all over the place in my time regarding parties. I've only voted for a Republican president one time. That doesn't make me a democrat. Thank God.
When have I ever claimed not to be independent... As for all my post about the "Occupy Movement"... I can't stand the Tea Party Extreme here... So any chance to stir the pot is good for me.
An Independent, chooses to vote for the person they feel best represents them, and does not vote based on a party... I may lean left, I may even like liberal pinko commy beliefs... BUT I'M ABSOLUTELY AN INDEPENDENT.
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