Quote: It's unfortunate that a man comes out and describes his agenda and what he dislikes with both parties, claims he's independent.... and half of you tell him he's views are wrong and he's misguided thinking he's independent cuz he said something bad aabout republicans .... therefore he must be a democrat.
I thought your original post in this thread is spot on and wish I said it myself.
It's unfortunate that conservatives on this board cannot have a valid discussion without throwing out the term liberal every other word. They equate anything negative/constructive that is said about the Republican party as made up or god forbid, it come from the news and totally discredit it. Then cry "liberal media." Yet these same people will quote Limbaugh, Hannity, O'reilly, of Fox news... and actually believe that it is a reputable news organization.
Remember when if you questioned any of Bush's policies or made fun of his gaffs, you were called unamerican and Michelle Bachman(the woman who thinks she's a prophet of some sort) would then want to verify your citizenship and claim your a terrorist....oh dont forget the ole... you don't support our troops if you disagree.
Trying to have a logical debate with the extremes on both sides is futile. But I commend you in trying.
4 years ago ... you could not convince anyone on this board of a fact that contradicted Fox news BS. You could provide links to articles, surveys, video of said republican stating whatever the remark was and none would believe.
IMHO... its best not to even try.
I told myself that i would not partake in political discussions on this board, because it is pointless and a waste of time. The only reason that I recently started to replay is because I'm so sick and tired of the level of unjustified Hate attached to so many ppl's comments. It's absurd and ridiculous.
I actually think YT hates Obama more than Colt McCoy...and I dont mean to single you out YT or pick on you. I enjoy our football debates. But you and many others here act like Obama bankrupt america, lied to you, started 2 wars, got richer off the wars, invaded your privacy, or allowed your savings to be gambled away, .... oh wait that was the last president.
He tried what noone else would and actually made an attempt to fix healthcare which was completely abismal situation in this country. I mean You all are right... he's the devil for trying to assure that all americans could find aid when needed. Is it a perfect plan... no. But I like I said in the last election... I'd rather see Obama try n fail, then noone try at all. I lost my father to poor healthcare policies of the past and it could of been avoided.
I hate HMO.
And that is the biggest gripe most of you have.... should that equal hate with passion??? NO
You can type that with a straight face? You are everything you accuse others of being. Almost every conservative on this board has identified areas where they are disappointed with Romney and the republican party. You, the other liberals and most of those who claim to be independant "former republicans" find it impossible to say anything negative about Obama or the dems (except that they don't stand up to the republicans enough...like that's some sort of open mindedness ). You are wearing thicker blinders than you accuse others of doing.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: Again, you must not visit very many sites that talk politics. This group is in no way as bad as a great majority of them. There are people who are confident and have strong opinions here. I suppose some people who may not be as self-assured may view that as arrogant or egotistical, or may be intimidated by it. I just don't see it as describing very many people here.
I agree completely with Candyman, which I've not often done in my years here. If you can even see the center you are too liberal for this board and most of what you say is dismissed outright. There are quite a few people who can't say anything in a political thread without using the word liberal like Rudy Guliani uses 9/11. There is outward racism from a few posters, and when called on it they get incredibly defensive. Only one person actually owns up to it. Punditry is passed off as fact, rhetoric is taken at face value, outright lies are defended when they align with ideology, name calling isn't widespread but a few people can't post without doing it (King O for example). If you aren't in the good old boy club your posts are often disregarded no matter how valid your point is.
This place is absolutely terrible when it comes to politics. This Tailgate (Everything Else is its new name I guess) forum is where critical thinking comes to die.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
Quote: It's unfortunate that a man comes out and describes his agenda and what he dislikes with both parties, claims he's independent.... and half of you tell him he's views are wrong and he's misguided thinking he's independent cuz he said something bad aabout republicans .... therefore he must be a democrat.
I thought your original post in this thread is spot on and wish I said it myself.
It's unfortunate that conservatives on this board cannot have a valid discussion without throwing out the term liberal every other word. They equate anything negative/constructive that is said about the Republican party as made up or god forbid, it come from the news and totally discredit it. Then cry "liberal media." Yet these same people will quote Limbaugh, Hannity, O'reilly, of Fox news... and actually believe that it is a reputable news organization.
Remember when if you questioned any of Bush's policies or made fun of his gaffs, you were called unamerican and Michelle Bachman(the woman who thinks she's a prophet of some sort) would then want to verify your citizenship and claim your a terrorist....oh dont forget the ole... you don't support our troops if you disagree.
Trying to have a logical debate with the extremes on both sides is futile. But I commend you in trying.
4 years ago ... you could not convince anyone on this board of a fact that contradicted Fox news BS. You could provide links to articles, surveys, video of said republican stating whatever the remark was and none would believe.
IMHO... its best not to even try.
I told myself that i would not partake in political discussions on this board, because it is pointless and a waste of time. The only reason that I recently started to replay is because I'm so sick and tired of the level of unjustified Hate attached to so many ppl's comments. It's absurd and ridiculous.
I actually think YT hates Obama more than Colt McCoy...and I dont mean to single you out YT or pick on you. I enjoy our football debates. But you and many others here act like Obama bankrupt america, lied to you, started 2 wars, got richer off the wars, invaded your privacy, or allowed your savings to be gambled away, .... oh wait that was the last president.
He tried what noone else would and actually made an attempt to fix healthcare which was completely abismal situation in this country. I mean You all are right... he's the devil for trying to assure that all americans could find aid when needed. Is it a perfect plan... no. But I like I said in the last election... I'd rather see Obama try n fail, then noone try at all. I lost my father to poor healthcare policies of the past and it could of been avoided.
I hate HMO.
And that is the biggest gripe most of you have.... should that equal hate with passion??? NO
You can type that with a straight face? You are everything you accuse others of being. Almost every conservative on this board has identified areas where they are disappointed with Romney and the republican party. You, the other liberals and most of those who claim to be independant "former republicans" find it impossible to say anything negative about Obama or the dems (except that they don't stand up to the republicans enough...like that's some sort of open mindedness ). You are wearing thicker blinders than you accuse others of doing.
The topic in question was that of conservative attitudes towards dems and independants. Not a forward discussion on Romney or Obama. I just dont see the reason for so much hateful speech when discussing Obama. He's not the greatest president and by far not the worst. But if Obamacare is the most vile thing that you hate him for... then I guess he may be much better than I originally thought.
I did say that I wish Obama to be a better leader in getting things done. It's a very difficult job to do with the current faction in charge of the Republican party. I do think he has timed his exit strategy out of Afghanitstan to coincide with election. We should of been discussing that the day we killed Bin Laden. I've said I think Obama needs to stand up to big business, especially Big Oil and do something about these prices. I would like to see him push his technological agenda more. I would also like to see him do more with NASA. it cost 2.1 bill, i think to go to mars. It cost hollywood, 2.2 bil to create Avatar. So it's actually cheaper to go to another planet than fake a new one.
Food for thought: Back 10-15 years ago, gas prices use to be spiked up over big 3 day weekends, then lowered back down. Today, they are lowered over the holiday weekends and spiked back up immediately after.
I still want to know where all of this hateful speech about Obama is?
Disagreeing with him isn't hateful. Thinking that he's been a disastrous President isn't hateful. Believing that he needs to be replaced isn't hateful.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I still want to know where all of this hateful speech about Obama is?
Disagreeing with him isn't hateful. Thinking that he's been a disastrous President isn't hateful. Believing that he needs to be replaced isn't hateful.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
Quote: I still want to know where all of this hateful speech about Obama is?
Disagreeing with him isn't hateful. Thinking that he's been a disastrous President isn't hateful. Believing that he needs to be replaced isn't hateful.
You will not get a response with any real substance to it.
Quote: I still want to know where all of this hateful speech about Obama is?
Disagreeing with him isn't hateful. Thinking that he's been a disastrous President isn't hateful. Believing that he needs to be replaced isn't hateful.
You will not get a response with any real substance to it.
Its incredibly ironic you are the one responding to his question, considering you're the most fitting answer to it
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
I actually laughed out loud when I read it. I know we all tend to say 'LOL' or use the icon, but, yeah... it couldn't have been funnier coming from anyone but him.
Quote: I still want to know where all of this hateful speech about Obama is?
Disagreeing with him isn't hateful. Thinking that he's been a disastrous President isn't hateful. Believing that he needs to be replaced isn't hateful.
You will not get a response with any real substance to it.
Its incredibly ironic you are the one responding to his question, considering you're the most fitting answer to it
Show me one example where I have shown hatred. One.
I responded to your quote for a purpose...because you have now responded twice to YTown's request...without answering his question.
Where were all of the people whining about the way Obama is being treated when Bush was being maliciously attacked daily? Oh that's right, for the most part they were the ones doing the attacking, laying down on bridges, making up childish names, retweeting ignorant photoshopped pictures as fast as they could, and anchoring major news outlets. And if Romney wins, they will go back on the attack and feel justified in doing it because Obama was treated so poorly....
That's why this cycle will not end.... it's attack, attack, attack... then whine and cry when somebody attacks you back... Our political system is set up like Israel and Palestine... nobody really cares who started it any more, all I know is that whatever you say about my guy, I have to retaliate and say something worse about yours... Meanwhile they are playing golf together at a club neither you nor I could afford to walk on and laughing at all of us.
Quote: That's why this cycle will not end.... it's attack, attack, attack... then whine and cry when somebody attacks you back... Our political system is set up like Israel and Palestine... nobody really cares who started it any more, all I know is that whatever you say about my guy, I have to retaliate and say something worse about yours... Meanwhile they are playing golf together at a club neither you nor I could afford to walk on and laughing at all of us.
...and now you know the reason that so few of my posts end up in the political threads. There is virtually nothing to be gained from engaging.
Foe me, the main reason is this: neither branch has a lock on The Truth, let alone The Answer. Politics is ultimately about Human Behavior and how best to use it to the country's advantage.... and Human Behavior is messy, inexact, and painted in shades of gray. If that is Man's general nature, what makes ANY reasonable person think "his side" has all the answers?
Which brings me to the REAL point: "The Art Of Compromise." Neither side gets all that they want, but both sides get some of what they want. Lines of communication remain open, and adjustments can be made down the road based upon initial results. Our current bunch in Wash DC have lost the art of compromise, and now play a disastrous game of tit-for-tat rhetoric.... and NOTHING gets done. Adherents to either party repeat these talking points out on the streets- so there is no unified mandate from The People to get something- ANYTHING done.
There is no better or immediate example than these threads right here. I can't recall the last time any compromise solution has ever been reached between posters from opposite ends of the spectrum. If I had, I might very well have copied it, and e-mailed it to some politico in DC... just to see if THEY could give it a try.
I have views and opinions of my own. Some align with conservative ideals. Some align with liberal ideals. For me, they are not in conflict, but are rooted in what passes for "common sense" - at least in my own mindframe. I'm reluctant to share them most days, because of the polarized, semi-toxic atmosphere that permeates most political talk anywhere. I feel that within minutes, I'd be attacked, labelled, pigeon-holed and dismissed as either a far-left whackjob or far-right wingnut, depending upon the subject of the day.
'Cause that's DawgTalkers... and it's just how we roll.
Maybe I'm exaggerating just a bit... but it can be a bit rough-and-tumble in here. I've always fancied myself as more diplomat than pugilist, and there seems little need for my input in this arena.
It's a shame,too- this lack of meeting of minds. I've seen evidence of some pretty sharp minds here at DT. One would think that with the depth and breadth of the knowledge base here, we'd at least stumble upon a few answers, instead of lashing ourselves to the ideological carousel and opening up the throttle.
...but that's just me, Dawgs. Under the right circumstances, politalk can be stimulating, More often than not, it just leaves me tired, frustrated and depressed.
Think I'll go play some Bach now- the simplicity and order will do me some good.
Suite #2, in d minor for unaccompanied cello. Somber at first, then hopeful by the end.
Seems appropriate for 9/11, too.
Have you heard Yo-Yo Ma perform the piece? He came to Akron a few years ago, but I was in high school and too young to appreciate his musical genius and therefore did not go..even though the school offered us $10 tickets.
I went through the trouble of actually looking through a few of Willie's posts
Quote:
And if/when believed controversial enough...Obama will skirt his agenda item(s) past Congressional approval and his bill will become law without us seeing it AND without Congress voting on it.
Libya anyone?
How anyone can trust anything this guy sayO is beyond me...it's what we get when the country elects a lawyer to the POTUS.
Quote: Not to mention the little detail that the individual mandate spits in the face of the U.S Constitution.
Obama can shirk (sp?) his duties to uphold and defend the Constitution - as he does regularly - but the Supreme Court will not.
The "bought and paid for" Justices will be the ones who vote to approve Obamacare.
Quote: You are too funny.
Newt would rip Obama apart unless the Obama campaign controls the entire event such that the King can just read off his response.
That was just a few random clicks. Not to mention the "King Obama" line that is brought up every other post.
If Willie is to be believed, we are on our way to Libya and only the conservative SCOTUS (with the exception of Roberts now who was apparently bought off) can stand up to his tyranny. Since they did not, it's now clear that everyone and everything is paid off/bribed and the country is in a free fall..unless we elect Romney (but then again he's a lawyer and Willie doesn't want a lawyer so we lose again).
A narrative that the "liberals" pay off Supreme Court justices, that is a bad thing that our POTUS be Harvard Law graduates for some reason and that the President is transforming us into Libya - a country where protesters are systematically shot - does not suggest a reasonable disagreement, it suggests that you are so far to the right on issues that you can't be reasoned with. Add to that the fact that first you were convinced he was not born in the USA, and now you're convinced he faked his birth certificate despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, what else would you call it?
A narrative that the "liberals" pay off Supreme Court justices, that is a bad thing that our POTUS be Harvard Law graduates for some reason and that the President is transforming us into Libya - a country where protesters are systematically shot - does not suggest a reasonable disagreement, it suggests that you are so far to the right on issues that you can't be reasoned with. Add to that the fact that first you were convinced he was not born in the USA, and now you're convinced he faked his birth certificate despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, what else would you call it?
The "bought and paid for" reference was a reference that someone else accused the conservatives of doing and why the SCOTUS always ended up favoring the conservative opinion.
The Libya reference was to his unilateral decision-making.
I never said he was not born here...ever.
I'm still convinced his birth certificate is fake.
Still looking for the hate.
Sounds more like a liberal disagreeing with a conservative.
Not necessarily, at least in my book... but it does seem to speak of an inflexible nature, and an absolute conviction in your "rightness."
Willie- you're entitled to your opinions as is everyone else, but plain old common sense tells a reasonable person that noone- not BO, not Bush43 Reagan or George Washington himself is always correct or always incorrect in their decisions of basic policy.
To date, I can't recall ever reading a single thing from you about the current POTUS that has been anything but dismissive or just plain totally disdainful.
Maybe not hatred, per se... but certainly not close to objective, either, IMHO.
Rather than set myself up to you as yet another adversary, let me come at this from a different angle:
Name 10... no- just 5 things he's done in the last 4 years that met with your approval. Stating why earns you extra points.
See... this way, if you even CAN come up with 5, we can dig thru the archives together- you and i... and fact-check your current list (that is- if you've ever even mentioned your approval at the time).
An objective individual is going to feel compelled to agree and disagree on a case-by-case basis. I've seen other conservatives on here do it. DC comes to mind first, but there are others besides just him. He's consistently to the right of center, but on occasion has mentioned when he's considered a move by this admin to be the correct one for the circumstances. I can't remember seeing this 'balance' from you, so I'm offering you a chance to show me if you're cut from the same bolt of cloth.
However, I ask that you - or any other poster who wishes to participate - to be the one to put out the 5 things Obama has done that I should/could/might-be compelled to agree-with or approve-of.
I do not support many of his policies or approve of many of his actions. I have given detailed examples of what I don't like.
Those who do support his policies and actions should be the ones to throw out his accomplishments for debate.
I realize that such an action - if not solicited as you have done - opens up someone to look as if they are "patting themselves/Obama on the back".
Likewise, if I were the one to suggest what you have suggested, it would be interpreted as if I were picking a fight.
I welcome the debate. If no one who is an Obama supporter will respond with the 5 accomplishments that I should approve-of, I will weigh in with the things he's done that I agree with.
However, I ask that you - or any other poster who wishes to participate - to be the one to put out the 5 things Obama has done that I should/could/might-be compelled to agree-with or approve-of.
Great job at dodging the question
what he wanted was for you to prove you aren't a hater by showing us 5 things this president has done that you can get behind.
Given the sheer numbers of things he's done or said, if you are an even remotely fair minded person, you should be able to find 5.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Thanks for sharing DC. You're one of the first people I think of when I think of someone who truly does not toe the party line.
As for Clem's challenge, I think it is reasonable to be able to list 5 or even 10 things a president has done that one can approve. They may not be major policy changes but for example I 1) loved how George Bush united the country after 9/11 (especially his speech to Muslim Americans), 2)I liked the fact he tried reforming education (did not like his method though), 3) loved how much aid he gave to Africa. He may have saved more lives in Africa than any other American president in history 4) He owned up to his past and alcohol abuse and showed people that no matter how low you get, you can redeem yourself 5) He had a unique ability to relate to people one-on-one (the image of him praying with and hugging countless people after 9/11 is a deeply powerful one)
I can think of plenty more with President W. Bush and I would not have voted for him in either election. I truly do not believe any President or Presidential candidate is an evil person. I can disagree with their politics, but I sincirely believe that all of our Presidents have done their best to improve America. I may disagree with their policies, but I never think their motive is in undermining America. I don't think certain people can say the same when it comes to our current President. (and in fairness it happens to every President).
When we have a good story... for example the bin Ladin death.....
we only get 2 perspectives...
How this will help the democrats...
How the republicans will respond in weak kneed fashion....
I have seen time an again politicians and other partisans only respond in a political and partisan manner. The talking heads on TV are just as bad. They can forecast gloom and doom on a sunny day...
If you can only look through things through a partisan perspective, you are probably missing the real story.
I have a family member that can only sit and curse Obama day after day after day... a conversation on another subject soon turns to political posturing. I feel sad for the fact that he has lost perspective because of this stuff.
However, I ask that you - or any other poster who wishes to participate - to be the one to put out the 5 things Obama has done that I should/could/might-be compelled to agree-with or approve-of.
Great job at dodging the question
Ok? Silly me...requesting that a "supporter" presents arguments in Obama's favor rather than me doing so. What was I thinking?
Quote: what he wanted was for you to prove you aren't a hater by showing us 5 things this president has done that you can get behind.
What he really asked me for was (5) things that have been discussed on this board that were in regards to something positive done by Obama and that I agreed with. Then he and I would review and debate.
I understand and appreciate the challenge...however...why should I be expected to state positions in support of a POTUS that I think has been a disaster?
Should not his supporters be able to carry that torch?
Not to mention,that while I enjoy reading Clem's posts, he is not the definitive arbiter on hatred...or lack thereof. I'm guessing he would agree with that last statement.
Quote: Given the sheer numbers of things he's done or said, if you are an even remotely fair minded person, you should be able to find 5.
I don't agree with that logic.
A POTUS with whom I have frequently disagreed, certainly has "something" I can agree with because he has made many proclimations?
Got it.
However, if you will re-post (5) threads from this website where someone was touting an Obama success, I'd be interested in debating that.
When/if you cannot do so, I will gladly pick (5) of his most well-known accomplishments and debate them
I would agree with those, though I believe that he extended the Bush Tax Cuts only once.
I would add that he has been very aggressive in using drones to hunt down and kill terrorists in areas that are difficult for troops to operate in. Also, he bought a puppy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
And for once, I agree with you. If you inherently disagree with something, it's disingenuous and illogical to have someone name 5 things they like about it. If someone came to me and said, "Name 5 things you think creationists are right about," or "5 things you think anti-vaccinationists are right about," I couldn't name one thing. If there were something logical about their arguments we could talk, but there isn't. It's a form of the logical fallacy "false equivalence."
The thing is Willie believes without a doubt that no matter what, Obama is wrong. Regardless of evidence, factual information, etc. he will not agree because he just can't see it as correct in his worldview. So that either makes him the smartest person on this board, if his belief is actually well founded and we're the crazy people, or the dumbest, he's unwilling to see fact and reason instead employing motivated and circular reasoning to reinforce his beliefs.
And for once, I agree with you. If you inherently disagree with something, it's disingenuous and illogical to have someone name 5 things they like about it. If someone came to me and said, "Name 5 things you think creationists are right about," or "5 things you think anti-vaccinationists are right about," I couldn't name one thing. If there were something logical about their arguments we could talk, but there isn't. It's a form of the logical fallacy "false equivalence."
The thing is Willie believes without a doubt that no matter what, Obama is wrong. Regardless of evidence, factual information, etc. he will not agree because he just can't see it as correct in his worldview. So that either makes him the smartest person on this board, if his belief is actually well founded and we're the crazy people, or the dumbest, he's unwilling to see fact and reason instead employing motivated and circular reasoning to reinforce his beliefs.
The irony in that post is astonishing. I'll just leave it at that.
Lilly Ledbetter Act: In a country that touts as one of its founding tenets "that all men are created equal," it seems reasonable to expect its citizens to receive equal pay for equal work. When it is discovered that one has been wronged in this way, the offender shouldn't be able to get off the hook by virtue of a legal loophole.
Osama Bin Laden / continued pressure on Al Qaeda, of course. We can debate whether any other President would have made the same call, but that isn't the point. The point is that this episode was historic in every sense of the word. In addition, we hear at least once every 3-6 months about yet another top AQ operative being taken out. The policies enacted under the Bush admin are being continued, with a fair amount of success. 2b. I also like that we've begun to evolve from a mid 20th c. military approach to one that fits the tactics of our new enemies. Massive invasions are fast becoming obsolete, and a streamlined militaristic approach seems appropriate to the times. In other words: I gots NO problem with drones, if it keeps my neighbor's nephew safe.
Policy improvements in support of military veterans I really like this one. Vets are now being bumped up on hiring lists, with incentives being made for companies/business that give them jobs. They're being helped to form their own small businesses, and their VA benefits have been improved. I can think of few better ways to honor their services than these.
Ended Iraq war on schedule, and initiating the draw-down in Afghanistan Beyond bringing our citizens back home and out of harm's way, these two acts will help the economy more than almost anything else. War is expensive business- especially underfunded ones.
Start Treaty/Nuke Reduction Pact with Russia Can we please leave the Cold War in the 20th c? Lib or con (or anyone else in-between), I can't imagine anyone being FOR more nuclear warheads floating around.
By extension, I truly believe that the current policy of sanctions against Iran is the right and proper course of action over there. Green-lighting Israel (or worse, bombing them ourselves) will only serve to set a match to that tinder box over there. I just heard a report 2 days ago about Iran's financial infrastructure eroding faster than they can fix it- and how the citizens are increasingly finding fault with their own government.. The policy is working, however slowly... and it's working without violence.
Leading from behind in Libya IMHO, this should be the prototype for all situations like this. No boots on the ground. No heavy US footprint in the global news. Unified effort from many nations. Despot taken out by his own subjects. no loss of American lives. It's just smart international policy, if you ask me.
These are a few things that I've liked. There are more, but for our purposes, it should suffice for now. By the way,
Quote: I truly do not believe any President or Presidential candidate is an evil person. I can disagree with their politics, but I sincirely believe that all of our Presidents have done their best to improve America. I may disagree with their policies, but I never think their motive is in undermining America. I don't think certain people can say the same when it comes to our current President. (and in fairness it happens to every President).
If I typed all day, I couldn't have put these sentiments any better. Nice job!
Gotta go for now.... but I'll post up some Bush 42/3 props in the next installment.
Quote: The irony in that post is astonishing. I'll just leave it at that.
Oh, you picked up on that? Good, because that was the point. You're a true believer WIllie, nothing anyone else says will make a dent in your ideals because you view everything else as foreign and illogical, therefore wrong. In essence, you are as sure as I am about Obama being a horrible person as I am about creationism and antivaccinationism being wrong. The only difference is I can point to facts.
Quote: The few Independents that I know walk around thinking they're somehow intellectually superior for holding this position. It makes me chuckle.
I just think it makes us honestly feel that people shouldn't be beholding to any given set of politicians simply based on whether they have a R or a D in front of their name.
That votes should be based on who one feels is the best candidate rather than pure ideology.
There are so many issues facing states, local governments and on the national level, that if people focus on a very few issues rather than look at things big picture, they often end up stalemating government to a point that nobody gets anything accomplished and everyone suffers as a result.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
). You are wearing thicker blinders than you accuse others of doing.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
icon, but, yeah... it couldn't have been funnier coming from anyone but him.
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
