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Notice, I said "yet."  You may be right though. Hopefully, Brandon will look better next week (it really wouldn't take much) and folks will still be excited inside the stadium come 9/23. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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I'd be shocked if Shurmur is here next year as he was Holmgren's guy all the way.
So... pretty much, this is a throw-away kinda year as we aren't actually building toward anything - again.
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I'm afraid your dead on !
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Good thing you didn't PM me and make that wager about the fans calling for McCoy huh DC?
I thought saying "No later than week 4" was giving it more than ample time.....
Admit it Pit, in your wildest nightmare, did you ever think he would look THAT bad?
But, as others have said, look on the bright side, if he comes out next week and just gives your garden variety sucky performance, people can say he improved.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
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I'd be shocked if Shurmur is here next year as he was Holmgren's guy all the way.
So... pretty much, this is a throw-away kinda year as we aren't actually building toward anything - again.
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I'm afraid your dead on !
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I'm almost certain of it. It's kinda like Mangini's 2nd year all over again.
The coach is here, but you kind of already know that it'll take an unrealistic type of winning record for him to stay, so it's all but a foregone conclusion that he's out and next year is Year 1 of the next rebuild.
We'll be told to have some patience, that they're going to do it right this time, etc, etc, etc, yada, yada, yada...
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
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I'd be shocked if Shurmur is here next year as he was Holmgren's guy all the way.
So... pretty much, this is a throw-away kinda year as we aren't actually building toward anything - again.
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I'm afraid your dead on !
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I'm almost certain of it. It's kinda like Mangini's 2nd year all over again.
The coach is here, but you kind of already know that it'll take an unrealistic type of winning record for him to stay, so it's all but a foregone conclusion that he's out and next year is Year 1 of the next rebuild.
We'll be told to have some patience, that they're going to do it right this time, etc, etc, etc, yada, yada, yada...
At least this time we can say for sure it was Lerners fault. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I'd be shocked if Shurmur is here next year as he was Holmgren's guy all the way.
So... pretty much, this is a throw-away kinda year as we aren't actually building toward anything - again.
I'm not at all sure if he was Holmgrens guy or Heckerts guy. If Banner is truly coming here, he knows both of these guys.. he might be comfortable with them both..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Admit it Pit, in your wildest nightmare, did you ever think he would look THAT bad?
I wouldn't go as far as to say "in my wildest nightmare", but no I didn't "expect him" to look THAT bad.
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But, as others have said, look on the bright side, if he comes out next week and just gives your garden variety sucky performance, people can say he improved.
Maybe if he plays bad and we still win we will have the next Tebow!
I guess some could say that. I'd have to see the completion rate above .500 and the int's. cut down quite a bit before I could really comment on his performance as him even "starting to get it".
But that's just me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I'd be shocked if Shurmur is here next year as he was Holmgren's guy all the way.
So... pretty much, this is a throw-away kinda year as we aren't actually building toward anything - again.
Eh, I'm kind of used to it at this point. With how much involvement Haslam has had already before even officially owning the team, it won't come as a surprise when he puts his stamp on the team, especially if we have a crappy record. Holmgren/Shurmur are probably toast though I'm holding out hope Heckert sticks... part of me is even curious what Haslam could do after blowing it all up as I've been supremely impressed with him thus far. It's not the end of the world though.
It's not like we have a bunch of WCO only/Jauron D only guys here... thankfully most of the guys Heckert has taken have value in multiple schemes and even if we blow it all up, they'll be worth keeping around. A bad rebuild is one where we have to gut the roster. This roster does NOT need to be gutted thankfully.
I'm not thrilled about the prospect about another staff again but let's be real... say we go 4-12 again (and it's definitely possible we do even worse)... we're looking at 13-35 in 3 years under Holmgren and 8-24 under Shurmur. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for keeping them gainfully employed.
We're... we're good?
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I'm not at all sure if he was Holmgrens guy or Heckerts guy. If Banner is truly coming here, he knows both of these guys.. he might be comfortable with them both..
I don't think it really matters.
Remeber Haslaams montra......"It's all about marketing".
You can't market the same ole' same ole' to this fan base. Enough of us know how bad the playcalling sucks canal water. I'm sure the people put in charge will know it too.
If they truely feel the drafting has been above average, I could see a possibility of Heckert remaining.
But tell me this........How can you tell the fan base that your talent level has improved so Heckert will stay. Then on the other hand tell them at the same time you're keeping a HC that isn't winning with better talent?
The math doesn't add up there.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm not at all sure if he was Holmgrens guy or Heckerts guy. If Banner is truly coming here, he knows both of these guys.. he might be comfortable with them both..
I don't think it really matters.
Remeber Haslaams montra......"It's all about marketing".
You can't market the same ole' same ole' to this fan base. Enough of us know how bad the playcalling sucks canal water. I'm sure the people put in charge will know it too.
If they truely feel the drafting has been above average, I could see a possibility of Heckert remaining.
But tell me this........How can you tell the fan base that your talent level has improved so Heckert will stay. Then on the other hand tell them at the same time you're keeping a HC that isn't winning with better talent?
The math doesn't add up there.....
Cant disagree with that statement at all. I have seen nothing from Shurmur that tells me he can be the guy hes kinda on my McCoy watch now.
I want Heckert to stay for sure. Some like him some hate him some are undecided but I like him.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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But tell me this........How can you tell the fan base that your talent level has improved so Heckert will stay. Then on the other hand tell them at the same time you're keeping a HC that isn't winning with better talent?
Blame it on "youth".. .that's the only way. Not saying he will go that route but if he wants to keep Shurmur, that's his only play. And even that is predicated on us looking much better by seasons end.
yebat' Putin
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j/c
anyone who thinks our WR are not getting open needs to watch the baltimore cincy game. They should watch both QB's slinging them into super tight coverage for completions.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I think I've only posted a couple of times since the draft....that weekend was a dark dark time. I'm a BPA type of guy and I think to many, many on this board, the Browns did everything but BPA...
That being said, I really wish and hope for Weeden to make this a more difficult prediction but if my Nostradamus glasses were on, I'd say that Weeden will be 1 and done with the Browns.
We all know Holmgren is gone and Heckert may or may not stay depending on which rumors are correct. In a best case scenario, let's say that Heckert stays....I think Shurmur is gone regardless....You look at the personality of Haslem and then you look at the two coaches that the Steelers had and I think the Browns go to someone with that type of personality....
Back to Weeden...Fast forward to 2013 and the Browns will have 3-4 wins at most and will be looking at a top 3 pick. You figure Barkley, Wilson, Murray and maybe another known or unknown will pop up there. Do you stick with a soon to be 30 year old or go with a 21-22 year old with 8+ years less tread? If Weeden shows anything less then Andy Dalton last year then I do not see him lasting.
While only week 1, that was a Spurgon Wynn-esqe performance
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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"Mild thing, you make my butt sting" - My thoughts on Weeden after this game.
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If Weeden is ready to start, you start him. If he's not, you don't. What I saw yesterday was not at ALL a guy who was ready to be named the starter...
But he's tall and he throws the ball 87 mph... what else do you need? 
don't forget he was pimped as one of the most accurate strong armed QB's ever...
I really didn't want to bring it up, but the player that I wanted at #22 had a very nice day yesterday for the Jets. As it turns out, we could have gotten him at #37 because he wasn't selected until #43. We didn't get the 6'4 speedster who can jump, we got the 5'10 speedster that can't go up and fight for the ball.
Stephen Hill was targeted 6 times. He caught 5 of those 6 for 89 yards and 2 TDs.
Travis Benjamin was targeted 6 times, catching one pass for 12 yards and no TDs. Furthermore, two of Weeden's INTs were on passes intended for Benjamin.
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Can't blame those plays on Benjamin. On the reverse he looked pretty good. I'd be throwing him bubble screens all day long.
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Can't blame those plays on Benjamin. On the reverse he looked pretty good. I'd be throwing him bubble screens all day long.
Agree...poor scheme and poor decisions to throw it. Benjamin is a slot
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Anybody think Haslam watched the game yesterday?
Just a thought.
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Anybody think Haslam watched the game yesterday?
Just a thought.
I would all but guarantee it.
Heck, he sat in the Dawg Pound for the 4th pre-season game.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Anybody think Haslam watched the game yesterday?
Just a thought.
In the paper, it said he was in a loge with his son and brothers
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Quote:
Anybody think Haslam watched the game yesterday?
Just a thought.
he was until he threw his remote at the TV
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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The best thing I can say is this: The book is far from having been written on Weeden, but it is quite disappointing that it appears that the first chapter is being written by Edgar Allen Poe.
To me, it reads more like Sylvia Plath, not Edgar Allen Poe.
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Anybody think Haslam watched the game yesterday?
Just a thought.
he was until he threw his remote at the TV
Well, at least he can afford a replacement. I wonder if there is a return policy when you purchase an entire franchise?
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Seriously?
What the heck else do you expect him to say in the days immediately before the kid's first NFL start??
At some point, whether you believe it or not, you have to come out in full support of the guys you're trotting out onto the field.
The thing is, he came out and said this because he had already named Weeden the starting QB.
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No wonder Colt was so pissed he didn't get a chance. He saw how bad Weeden was and knew he could do better than that bad.
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j/c
anyone who thinks our WR are not getting open needs to watch the baltimore cincy game. They should watch both QB's slinging them into super tight coverage for completions.
Agreed --- In the NFL, short of Calvin Johnson, no one gets wide open...It's about timing and delivery. For all intensive purposes...Guys need to be thrown open. McCoy has the brain but he just doesn't have the arm to do that consistently in the NFL. Weeden has the arm, he just isn't ready to play in the NFL. What makes it even harder to swallow is he is 28. Time is of the essence, so it's hard to accept Weeden is going to take time to develop. He was supposed to have it mentally. Well he doesn't. he's a rookie. So, now what? My guess is Shurmur will go down with his ship...If he didn't make the call in a game where ONE play needed to be made to win when his QB was completely lost out there...Then he won't make a change ever. 
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No wonder Colt was so pissed he didn't get a chance. He saw how bad Weeden was and knew he could do better than that bad.
My brain hurts after deciphering that last sentence. Lol!
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Weeden has the arm, he just isn't ready to play in the NFL. What makes it even harder to swallow is he is 28. Time is of the essence, so it's hard to accept Weeden is going to take time to develop.
At least we didn't use a first round pick on him.
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No wonder Colt was so pissed he didn't get a chance. He saw how bad Weeden was and knew he could do better than that bad.
...........or maybe the reason he took it fairly well is b/c he knew he'd get a chance to play soon and try to prove himself?
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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If Weeden is ready to start, you start him. If he's not, you don't. What I saw yesterday was not at ALL a guy who was ready to be named the starter...
But he's tall and he throws the ball 87 mph... what else do you need?
don't forget he was pimped as one of the most accurate strong armed QB's ever...
I really didn't want to bring it up, but the player that I wanted at #22 had a very nice day yesterday for the Jets. As it turns out, we could have gotten him at #37 because he wasn't selected until #43. We didn't get the 6'4 speedster who can jump, we got the 5'10 speedster that can't go up and fight for the ball.
Stephen Hill was targeted 6 times. He caught 5 of those 6 for 89 yards and 2 TDs.
Travis Benjamin was targeted 6 times, catching one pass for 12 yards and no TDs. Furthermore, two of Weeden's INTs were on passes intended for Benjamin.
I wanted Hill so bad, I'm hoping Gordon can eventually become the same kind of player.
I don't think Hill is ganna be Megatron, but I think he's going to be better than Demarius Thomas.
I wonder if we were even considering him.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I wanted Hill so bad, I'm hoping Gordon can eventually become the same kind of player.
I don't think Hill is ganna be Megatron, but I think he's going to be better than Demarius Thomas.
I wonder if we were even considering him.
The two that I wanted from the first round were DeCastro and Hill. I would have liked to have gotten Doug Martin too. That would have taken care of three HUGE needs on offense with the first three picks (DeCastro injury for Putzburgh notwithstanding because we don't know if he'd have gotten injured if he was selected by the Browns.
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I was at the game, and had a view of the whole field.
There were guys open, no doubt. He overthrew them quite often. He had plenty of chances to convert plays, and even put points on the board, but he just made some poor, poor throws.
Yes, there were instances where WRs weren't separating, but when they do, you gotta hit em man. Weeden, for all the touting of his accuracy, had none.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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No wonder Colt was so pissed he didn't get a chance. He saw how bad Weeden was and knew he could do better than that bad.
...........or maybe the reason he took it fairly well is b/c he knew he'd get a chance to play soon and try to prove himself?
He will play again and be needed again even if it's just for spot duty.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 09/10/12 11:17 PM.
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I wanted Hill so bad, I'm hoping Gordon can eventually become the same kind of player.
I don't think Hill is ganna be Megatron, but I think he's going to be better than Demarius Thomas.
I wonder if we were even considering him.
The two that I wanted from the first round were DeCastro and Hill. I would have liked to have gotten Doug Martin too. That would have taken care of three HUGE needs on offense with the first three picks (DeCastro injury for Putzburgh notwithstanding because we don't know if he'd have gotten injured if he was selected by the Browns.
I was fine going with Pinkston and Luavao.
I think Richardson is light years ahead of Martin. But had we kept Hillis I wanted LeMichael James as a change of pace back.
I will admit that I cursed aloud when they announced the #22 pick. I wanted either Luck/RG3, or Foles in the 3rd/4th
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Anybody think Haslam watched the game yesterday?
Just a thought.
he was until he threw his remote at the TV
Well, at least he can afford a replacement. I wonder if there is a return policy when you purchase an entire franchise?
in the state of Ohio? 3 days lol
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Anybody think Haslam watched the game yesterday?
Just a thought.
He was at the Shurmur Post Game Press conference and met fans after the game on the exit ramp.
Yeah, he watched.
you had a good run Hank.
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Maybe since he's wearing Derek Anderson's old jersey . . . . .
LOL
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...or Foles in the 3rd/4th
I liked Foles too. And he'll be ready to replace Vick any time the need arises. With Vick's history of injuries, it's likely that Foles will see starting time this season.
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I was fine going with Pinkston and Luavao.
I was fine with Pinkston or Lauvao, at one of the guard spots, but not to have both as starters.
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I think Richardson is light years ahead of Martin. But had we kept Hillis I wanted LeMichael James as a change of pace back.
I don't think that Richardson is so much better than Doug Martin at all. I would have even considered trading up from the early second round into the bottom of the first to nab him. Tampa traded up back into the first to get him. They won their game. He had 24 carries for 95 yards. He also caught 4 passes for 23 yards. Compare that to what Richardson did with Weeden under center.
I know, it's one game, but I'm looking at it as production value. You need competence at every position before you can take that next step. Richardson may be great, but with poor other parts on the offense, you'll never know it.
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j/c
I will have to say that after watching Sundays game, my first comment was, "It's a shame when you have to admit that our best offense was our defense."
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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My only complaint on spending 4 picks on Richardson..
I don't believe Shurmur knows HOW to use him...
I am SICK and TIRED of 1st runs up the middle, every single time, it's ridiculous...
Coaches like Shanahan (who I don't think is that great) tailor their gameplans around what their QBs can do, and put them in good situations.
I don't know that I;ll ever believe Shurmur even knows how to do that. I think he has a set game plan, and regardless of whos playing, they better be able to do it...
I can't believe I'd ever be in favor of Brad Childress or Dick Jauran as the Browns HC...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Brandon Weeden Disaster thread
moved - part 2
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