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You can go directly to people named "Lerner" for the root of that problem. Now that there isn't anyone with that name associated with the organization, we stand a greater chance of stopping the finger from hitting the Eject button...
So oh wise one.....
.... Who among these mighty outcasts should we have stuck with?
The only one of that I even can think that still has any power in the NFL is RAC and the jury is still out on that one.
It's easy to sit here and complain about the eject button. But isn't it far more about hiring the wrong people to begin with? And once you figured out you hired the wrong people, please tell me why you wouldn't hit the eject button?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Annother new offensive system again, another reason failure will be acceptable next season, again.
The Browns have become a circus sideshow.
I won't speculate about your other points, but this?
Shurmer came from Philly, Heckert came from Philly and Banner would be coming from Philly.
So can you explain any possible reasoning to say the offenseive schemes will be different? Philly runs a 4-3 and we run a 4-3.
I do see some wholesale changes in leadership here. But all of these guys come from Philly and should have the same basic mind set on both sides of the ball.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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the influence on picking McCoy and Weeden are all on Holmgren as well.
But hey, I'm just a  fan posting on here that disagrees with you. 
Well posing that he had influence on drafting Weeden is definatly your "opinion" as it seems to be with some others. But there is nothing to really suggest or show that in any way other than people slinging dung on the wall to see what sticks.
And as a matter of fact, I think Colt has some upside and will be a great back-up for the #85 pick overall.
Are you seriously suggesting this FO thought a late third round pick was going to set us up with a franchise QB?
The first two drafts were to set up the D. They took a flyer on McCoy with their second third round pick that year.
Some people just crack me up with the BS they make up in their own heads.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Shurmur is calling plays that get receivers open and Weeden overthrows them by 10 yards so its Shurmur's fault for the overthrow.
I do think that Shurmur contributed by only giving Weeden 49 passing attempts in the whole pre-season. He needed more. He should have had more. And that IS on Shurmur.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Holmgren has forgotten more, then 10 of you arm chair GM blowhards will ever know.
Ah, dementia. So that explains a lot 
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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1977 Cleveland Browns Draft
Round Overall Player Position Birthdate College
1 17 Robert Jackson LB 08/07/1954 Texas A&M
2 46 Tom Skladany P 06/29/1955 Ohio State
4 102 Oliver Davis DB 08/29/1954 Tennessee State
4 110 Mickey Sims DT 03/05/1955 South Carolina State
7 173 Ken Randle WR 10/12/1954 Southern California
7 184 Blane Smith LB 07/13/1954 Purdue
7 188 Bob Lingenfelter OT 09/01/1954 Nebraska
8 213 Bill Armstrong DB 06/24/1955 Wake Forest
9 240 Daryl Brown KR 04/25/1955 Tufts
10 269 Tom Burkett OT 11/08/1954 North Carolina
11 296 Charles Nash WR 08/30/1954 Arizona
12 325 Leo Tierney C 01/28/1954 Georgia Tech
1978 Cleveland Browns Draft
Round Overall Player Position Birthdate College
1 12 Clay Matthews LB 03/15/1956 Southern California
1 23 Ozzie Newsome TE 03/15/1956 Alabama
2 39 Johnny Evans P 02/18/1956 North Carolina State
3 67 Larry Collins RB 08/08/1955 Texas A&M-Kingsville
3 68 Mark Miller QB 08/13/1956 Bowling Green
4 103 Pete Pullara OG 05/08/1956 Tennessee-Chattanooga
5 122 Keith Wright WR 01/30/1956 Memphis
6 149 Al Pitts C 12/05/1955 Michigan State
8 205 Jesse Turnbow DT 10/08/1956 Tennessee
9 234 Jon Kramer OG 04/21/1956 Baylor
10 261 Brent Watson OT 12/16/1955 Tennessee
11 290 Larry Gillard DT 07/10/1955 Mississippi State
12 317 Leo Biedermann OT 10/19/1955 California
979 Cleveland Browns Draft
Round Overall Player Position Birthdate College
1 20 Willis Adams WR 08/22/1956 Houston
2 40 Lawrence Johnson DB 09/11/1957 Wisconsin
2 47 Sam Claphan OT 10/10/1956 Oklahoma
3 70 Jim Ramey DE 03/09/1957 Kentucky
4 95 Matt Miller OT 07/30/1956 Colorado
5 124 Rich Dimler DT 07/18/1956 Southern California
6 151 Clinton Burrell DB 09/04/1956 Louisiana State
6 163 Jim Ronan DT 12/23/1956 Minnesota
7 183 Cody Risien OT 03/22/1957 Texas A&M
8 204 Kent Perkov DE 01/02/1953 San Diego State
9 234 Carl McGee LB 07/15/1956 Duke
9 241 Curtis Weathers LB 09/16/1956 Mississippi
10 261 John Smith WR 01/27/1956 Tennessee State
11 287 Randy Poeschl DE 08/16/1956 Nebraska
12 315 Dewitt Methvin C 03/23/1956 Tulane
1980 Cleveland Browns Draft
Round Overall Player Position Birthdate College
1 27 Charles White RB 01/22/1958 Southern California
2 54 Cleveland Crosby DE 04/03/1956 Arizona
3 72 Cliff Odom LB 08/15/1958 Texas-Arlington
4 99 Ron Crews DT 10/09/1956 Nevada-Las Vegas
4 109 Paul McDonald QB 02/23/1958 Southern California
5 116 Elvis Franks DE 07/09/1957 Morgan State
8 209 Jeff Copeland LB 01/12/1958 Texas Tech
9 236 Roy Dewalt RB 09/04/1956 Texas-Arlington
10 263 Kevin Fidel C 08/27/1956 San Diego State
11 294 Roland Sales RB 12/05/1955 Arkansas
12 321 Marcus Jackson DE 06/08/1957 Purdue
Take a long hard look at the players drafted in 76 through 80 and give Heck a freakin break. Nobody and I mean NOBODY in the history of the NFL hits on all or even most of their draft choices. Has he been perfect.... hell no, but he hasn't sucked as bad as some people seem to think, and our coaching has been putrid since he has been here.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I realize the Brownies aren't the center of EVERYONE'S universe, but why aren't I seeing this story reported anywhere else.....? Pretty big news, no?
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Shurmur is calling plays that get receivers open and Weeden overthrows them by 10 yards so its Shurmur's fault for the overthrow.
I do think that Shurmur contributed by only giving Weeden 49 passing attempts in the whole pre-season. He needed more. He should have had more. And that IS on Shurmur.
I completely agree. I think Shurmur made a huge mistake by not playing weeden more in preseason especially in the 4th game. He was not ready to start and that is on the coaching staff.
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I realize the Brownies aren't the center of EVERYONE'S universe, but why aren't I seeing this story reported anywhere else.....? Pretty big news, no?
Not that it has ever stopped anybody before, but probably because its just a rumor... that and we are a losing franchise and the NFL is coming off week 1 with much greater things to talk about.
yebat' Putin
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Shurmur is calling plays that get receivers open and Weeden overthrows them by 10 yards so its Shurmur's fault for the overthrow.
I do think that Shurmur contributed by only giving Weeden 49 passing attempts in the whole pre-season. He needed more. He should have had more. And that IS on Shurmur.
I completely agree. I think Shurmur made a huge mistake by not playing weeden more in preseason especially in the 4th game. He was not ready to start and that is on the coaching staff.
I agree as well.
They were treating him like a 10 year vet, which was beyond dumb.
But hey, that's what the book says to do ... you sit your QB for the fourth preseason game. The book says it. You have to do it that way.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
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You can go directly to people named "Lerner" for the root of that problem. Now that there isn't anyone with that name associated with the organization, we stand a greater chance of stopping the finger from hitting the Eject button...
So oh wise one.....
.... Who among these mighty outcasts should we have stuck with?
The only one of that I even can think that still has any power in the NFL is RAC and the jury is still out on that one.
It's easy to sit here and complain about the eject button. But isn't it far more about hiring the wrong people to begin with? And once you figured out you hired the wrong people, please tell me why you wouldn't hit the eject button?
Big swing-and-a-miss
Oh wise one indeed...you're making my point for me. 
Care to try again, or would you like me to 'splain it to ya, Pit? Go back and follow the thread. It'll dawn on ya..
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So can you explain any possible reasoning to say the offenseive schemes will be different? Philly runs a 4-3 and we run a 4-3.
Even if we stay with the same basic sets, each staff will have their own interpretation and schemes, etc within that system.
If new ownership doesnt completely overhaul the staff Id be incredibly surprised. I just dont see anybody spending a Billion dollars on something and not wanting to put their stamp on it.
For all we know the owner may want to bring a 3-4 back based on his time in Pittsburgh. To many unknowns at this point. But generally speaking Im tired of change and thought we had finally gotten some stability with Holmgren at the top.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Haslam SEEMS to want to avoid too much change. I'm hoping he sees our D as the last thing that needs messing around with . . .
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Yes, please explain it to me. Who was here that we should have kept instead of hitting the eject button?
You can't "eject" the owner if that's what you're refering to.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Even if we stay with the same basic sets, each staff will have their own interpretation and schemes, etc within that system.
That would be tweaking the system, not blowing it up.
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If new ownership doesnt completely overhaul the staff Id be incredibly surprised. I just dont see anybody spending a Billion dollars on something and not wanting to put their stamp on it.
Oh I don't really doubt that changes will be made in the FO and coaching staff. What is it you've seen from Holmgren and Shurmer that makes you think keeping them here is such a great idea?
The one major plus for Holmgren is that he hired Heckert IMO But otherwise, please tell me why you think it is so important to retain Holmgren and Shurner? What is it about them that makes you feel that their parting would be such a huge disaster?
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For all we know the owner may want to bring a 3-4 back based on his time in Pittsburgh. To many unknowns at this point. But generally speaking Im tired of change and thought we had finally gotten some stability with Holmgren at the top.
I'm neither happy nor sad about Holmgren staying or leaving. Can you tell me what that stability has brought us?
All I can see is it brought us Heckert. I've seen nothing to indicate that a change in HC's would be any worse off than we are now.
I guess there is some remote possibility that we would change to the 3-4. But if Banner puts his mark on anything, it seems it's far more likely to be of the Philly tree. the 4-3.
The sky isn't falling yet. You can expect the worse or wait and see what happens. I plan to wait..... Then maybe complain!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You can't "eject" the owner if that's what you're refering to.
Well... he pulled the eject lever on his own.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Well... he pulled the eject lever on his own.
And that's fine by me!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Yes, please explain it to me. Who was here that we should have kept instead of hitting the eject button?
You can't "eject" the owner if that's what you're refering to.
Maybe he's referring to the quality of the hires to begin with, which falls on the Lerners... when you hire somebody not capable of doing the job, it's rather irrelevant whether you keep them or eject them if you are just going to replace them with somebody else who is not capable of doing the job.
yebat' Putin
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when you hire somebody not capable of doing the job, it's rather irrelevant whether you keep them or eject them if you are just going to replace them with somebody else who is not capable of doing the job.
Yes.
The Lerner's hired Palmer, Davis, Romeo, Mangini, and Holmgren (who hired Shurmur) over a span of 12 years. That alone makes me think we need to fire Shurmur.
Eventually it's not just a mistake, the person making the mistake just sucks at that particular thing. In this case, the Lerner's (mostly Randy) suck at hiring people to run their NFL team.
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Which is why I thought Randy did the right thing by removing himself from that position by hiring Holmgren and letting HIM hire the football people.. and while a lot of people have issues with Holmgren, this team has more talent on it now than it has since the return.
yebat' Putin
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Palmer was doomed from the start. No one wanted to be our first coach. And once he wasn't singing the playoff tune after year 2, he was pushed aside for someone who would tow the company line...
Butch I think is a good Football coach, but Butch the wanna be GM got in the way, we lost a great Football mind in Ron Wolf because of Davis' ego. And then Davis went FA crazy, trying to "win now" because Policy and Co decided that talking about the playoffs before they even had a team was a good idea...
Romeo, Romeo, where for art thou gut feelings...I think Crennel could of been fine, except Savage is a blatant liar. He claimed to be the first guy to want to "build" the team, then went out and splurged in FA and sold draft picks like they were nothing...
Mangini shouldn't of been fired from NYJ, and he definatley shouldn't of been hired not even a week later.. Had he took NYJs 2010 1st round pick in the trade, I think people wouldn't talk SO badly about that draft, and I don't think we'll ever REALLY know what went down with Kokinis.. However, Before yesterdays (defensive) performance, he had put together one of the toughest Browns teams in 2010 since '99 IMO.
When we hired Shurmur, I looked to the hirings of Mike Smith (ATL) and Jack Del Rio (JAX) as guys who no one REALLY knew who went on to have SOME success, But after watching him now? I dunno about him...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Which is why I thought Randy did the right thing by removing himself from that position by hiring Holmgren and letting HIM hire the football people.. and while a lot of people have issues with Holmgren, this team has more talent on it now than it has since the return.
Thats the difference this time around in a nut shell and also why the old aurgement in not allowing the plan to run it's course, because the hire was flawed from the get go.
Say what you want about Mike Holmgren, but you can't say that he didn't hire proven professionals in this League.
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I think our staff is one of the best in the league. I also think the person leading that staff is the weakest link. It would be great if we could somehow keep everyone besides the head coach.
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I completely agree. I think Shurmur made a huge mistake by not playing weeden more in preseason especially in the 4th game. He was not ready to start and that is on the coaching staff.
4th game hell he should have played between 8 and 12 quarters at least in the preseason. Just another case of the Shurminator showing his ignorance.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Yes, please explain it to me. Who was here that we should have kept instead of hitting the eject button?
You can't "eject" the owner if that's what you're refering to.
Pit, had you gone back and followed the flow of the thread you'd have seen the answer. That's the danger of picking out singular posts and forming opinions.
My point was that if we'd had different owners, we wouldn't be hitting the eject button all the time. The meaning is that when the owners are dopes, they aren't smart enough to hire the right people, and thus will continue to hire the wrong ones.
So, taking that back further as per the context of the conversation, first it was Al who hired the wrong people in Policy and Clark and Davis, then it was his son who kept picking the wrong people time after time after time.
My ultimate point was that we now have a different owner and that's cause for celebration, because as much as Randy Lerner tried, cared, and spent money, he simply wasn't smart enough to get the right people in place.
SO...if you have the right people in place, you won't have to keep hitting the eject button.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I have been on record for years as saying the Lerners are the problem. They have continually backed the wrong horse.
The sooner Al's initials come off the jersey the happier I will be. If youre NOT a player get your damn name off that jersey.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Gotta confess that I hadn't thought about that. I really didn't know Al's initials where still on there. They should be taken off immediately.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I thought that I read something about them coming off after this year. He died in 2002, and I believe those memorial patches stay on for 10 years. Yep ... here it is, from April: Browns Uniform Design Not Expected To Change For 2012 « CBS Cleveland http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/04/02/browns-uniform-design-not-expected-to-change-for-2012/The most noticeable change to the Browns uniforms will not happen until the 2013 season. That will be the removal of the “AL” patch on the sleeves which has adorned the team’s uniforms since the death of the expansion Browns’ original owner, the late Al Lerner in October of 2002.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Thanks for diggin' that up. 
No disrespect to Al, but had it not been him, it would have been someone else. Word is that he was a good and kind man and if that's true he deserves recognition for it, just as Randy deserves it. However, Al's tenure was a failure, and it just doesn't seem right that his initials should remain. Somehow, someway, it almost feels hollow at this point.
Ya know...now that I stop for a moment to think about it, I seem to recall that Lerner outbid the Dolan's, owner's of the Indians, though I may be remembering incorrectly. If that ultimately turned out to be correct, I may reconsider wanting his initials off the jersey The Dolan's are garbage and as much as I hate how poorly the Indians have done, the Browns are my first and greatest sports love. Imagining the Browns with the Dolan's pulling the strings makes me convulse...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The sooner Al's initials come off the jersey the happier I will be.
So that's why the team has sucked......Those damn initials made the jerseys heavier on one side. This explains a lot. 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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J/C
One thing to keep in mind when talking about head coaches is...It doesnt seem like there is ever a line of well known big name quality coaches beating our door down when we are hiring. Until we prove that the team is not going to be a laughing stock I doubt we get much other then bottom of the barrel type guys. (at least bottom of the barrel at the NFL level)
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Didn't know that patch info. Thanks, Ytown! And I agree that it should come off after this year. We will probably have some P-burgesque things like handing out Not-Quite-So-Terrible-Just Yet hankies or sumpin. Hope we ramp up some wins.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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One thing to keep in mind when talking about head coaches is...It doesnt seem like there is ever a line of well known big name quality coaches beating our door down when we are hiring. Until we prove that the team is not going to be a laughing stock I doubt we get much other then bottom of the barrel type guys. (at least bottom of the barrel at the NFL level)
Well if whoever Haslam brings in is able to truly evaluate talent, then maybe we actually find the CORRECT bottom-of-the-barrel coach; someone who hasn't yet become a well known big name quality coach. Someone like Mike Tomlin, for example, who can BECOME a well known coach here in Cleveland.
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My point was that if we'd had different owners, we wouldn't be hitting the eject button all the time.
Having different ownership in an of itself doesn't guarantee that there won't be a revolving door. Snyder, Davis, The Jets, Glazers and to some extent the hunts and Jerry Jones.
Funny thing, each of those teams either has one or more SB win.
All under current ownership except Snyder with the redskins. (I'd have to check on the Jets, they might have had different ownership when they won)
Oakland and NYJs and KC's SB wins were a long time ago, Tampa was what, about 10 years ago and Dallas is now 16 or so years removed from their last superbowl.
Ownership matters only if egos don't get in the way once they find a method that wins and they stick to it. Jerry Jones found it, ego got in the way, he's won bubkis since.
Frankly, only one franchise comes to mind when you think about finding a solution and sticking to it, Pittsburgh. 3 HC's since 1969..
And each one has followed a similar path.. tweaking things a little here and there to use what talent they have.
Jimmy is coming from that kinda FOOTBALL team. My hope is whatever magic he found in Pittsburgh, he brings it here.
If that means banner and a different HC and a different GM,, fine with me. I just wanna win.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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J/C
One thing to keep in mind when talking about head coaches is...It doesnt seem like there is ever a line of well known big name quality coaches beating our door down when we are hiring. Until we prove that the team is not going to be a laughing stock I doubt we get much other then bottom of the barrel type guys. (at least bottom of the barrel at the NFL level)
Gruden is on record as really liking Weeden coming out of college.
Man, I'd love to have Gruden here.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
I feel like if Gruden ends his TV career for coaching, he won't pick Cleveland.
But, I feel confident that Haslam and Gruden will be having a discussion . . .
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
me too...but I dont see it happening
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090 |
Quote:
Quote:
J/C
One thing to keep in mind when talking about head coaches is...It doesnt seem like there is ever a line of well known big name quality coaches beating our door down when we are hiring. Until we prove that the team is not going to be a laughing stock I doubt we get much other then bottom of the barrel type guys. (at least bottom of the barrel at the NFL level)
Gruden is on record as really liking Weeden coming out of college.
Man, I'd love to have Gruden here.
Gruden is also on record loving McCoy..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
J/C
One thing to keep in mind when talking about head coaches is...It doesnt seem like there is ever a line of well known big name quality coaches beating our door down when we are hiring. Until we prove that the team is not going to be a laughing stock I doubt we get much other then bottom of the barrel type guys. (at least bottom of the barrel at the NFL level)
Gruden is on record as really liking Weeden coming out of college.
Man, I'd love to have Gruden here.
Gruden is also on record loving McCoy..
FYI, There isn't a QB that Gruden doesn't love. LOL
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605 |
Gruden is on record loving every QB he has ever seen 
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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