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Good topic but wow your post is total nonsense to be kind about it. You fire a coach when he has lost a team. You sure as hell do not fire him after a last minute 1 pt loss on opening day.
I don't have time this morning to reply to all the great posts, and I get the differing of opinion here, (after all firing Shurmur would seem extreme,) but you have to take steps that insure some level of success. Shurmur is in over his head and has been from day one, he has zero experience, even less charisma and can't figure out what to do on game day. He is inept at play calling and game planning and that is fundamental to the success of this team and a basic part of his job. I don't know that he ever "had" the team. His placement and premature elevation to HC was strictly a nepotistic ego driven move by Holmgren and it has done nothing to pay dividends. With Holmgren out the door, there is no real reason to keep Shurmur on board. Calling for continuity in the face of continuous poor play and decision making would border on incompetence. There is no real reason to keep him, and several reasons to eject him. Put someone in his place who's done it before and move on.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Wasn't that tried right before Shurmer was hired?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Holmgren is a lame duck, for all intents and purposes he's gone. Yay. That's a start.
Next, fire Shurmur. Don't wait, do it now. (Or as soon as is administratively possible, say the day after Haslam takes over.)
Keep Dick Jauron and his defensive scheme in tact, promote him to interim head coach and retain Childress as the OC and make him the play caller.
Keep Tom Heckert as GM.
Sit Weeden, start McCoy. McCoy doesn't have to light it up, he just has to not lose the games. Let Weeden learn on the sidelines. If McCoy is not getting it done by the bye, put Weeden back in. If McCoy gets hurt, he'll get his shot.
This is not an endorsement of McCoy, or intended to start a debate about his arm strength or accuracy. Weeden may have a stronger arm. He may be more accurate. He may be more mature and have a shorter memory (though this is debatable,) but one thing he is not, and that is READY. He's not ready, he hasn't been ready, and he won't be ready by next week. It was a mistake to simply hand him the job, but because of the major hole Shurmer & Homgren dug, they are stuck with the decision. Without them, there's no pile of crap we have to eat, we can reset and put things back in line.
These suggestions may not be the ultimate solutions, but they would be a start.
Gentlemen, start your whinegins.
All this after one game?
#GMSTRONG
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Yeah, you could say there is a little over-reacting going on.
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I used Denver as the latest example but they are far from the only one. You were wrong, you know it, I know and I am pretty sure everyone else does. Every freaking year there are a few teams that struggle early and come on late.
The difference is that the vast majority of those teams which struggle do so because they aren't playing to their level of talent and/or experience. This Browns team was ranked as lowly as it was because we don't carry the same level of talent as the rest of the league. To expect this group to suddenly have the collective light come on during the season feels a lot like the same kind of wishful thinking that creates unrealistically optimistic expectations before the season starts.
Players gain experience in their first year or two, but they don't make great strides in collective performance as a general rule. There are great strides made after the season is over and before the next regular season starts.
Afterall, that ridiculous optimism has to come from somewhere 
Besides, why should we expect the ship to be righted? This was always going to be a busted year anyway while we waited for the kids to gain experience, right?  So what's the sin in stating there isn't a way to right it? Or is that suddenly as unacceptable as the first loss?
Sounds like good old fashioned denial to me...
Smells like something else to me lol. Sorry dude, you are saying a team of 26 first and second year players are not going to improve as they gain experience playing together and as they learn this system? Seriously that is what you are inferring?
Wow thats just effing crazy.
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Yeah, you could say there is a little over-reacting going on.
Well yeah, just a little. Hey, half the team looked amazing. The other half sucked.
Lots of newness over there on the offense. I wasn't a fan of drafting Weeden, nothing against the kid, just thought we could have done better and given McCoy a year with talent around him.. but that didn't happen so I've embraced Weeden for better or worse and will watch as this unfolds.
As for the firing of Holmgren., at this point, what the hell is that going to help. The problem is on the field,,
Holmgren may be gone, we are getting a new owner, there is already rumblings of banner taking over and Holmgren being bought out of his contract.
But honestly, I wouldn't want to be the owner that fired a sure fire hall of fame guy. I'd let him leave if he wanted to, but I'd make damn sure it doesn't appear to be the new owners idea.. I'd let it be holmgrens.
Look at what 3 years of drafts have done for the D. Two of those drafts were spent mostly on the D and you can see, we added a couple of youngsters in the mix this year and take a look at how well they played on sunday against a team that should have scored at will against us.
This is the first year we've spent the extra picks at the top of the draft on offense.
And typical, if we don't get instant success, the world is caving in.
we have the Bengals next week that for all the hype of thier QB last year and the receivers and the D etc.. Got their heads handed to them by the Ravens last night. should they throw everyone under the bus because of one loss? Of course not.
So yeah, just a bit of a knee jerk reaction I think.
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All this after one game, I cant believe we dont have a draft thread yet....
We had a "Do we take a QB in the first round next year" thread before the first game.
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Good post here...
and yes, Cincy should just mail it in, their season is over, Marvin Lewis is a bum and Andy Dalton just doesnt have it in him to sustain success...Teams have tape on him now and its over for them.
One thing I will say to Cincy...theyre going to miss Ced Benson this season big time. BJGE just isnt the same caliber runner and Bernard Scott isnt good either. Theyre going to miss him more than they ever expected.
Back to us.
We have 26 guys playing in their 1st or 2nd year (or rookie year...silly that that needs to be added when theres first year) guys on the roster. Running a system that has had 1 offseason to be installed. We've seen the improvement in what Colt looked like in the preseason (Chicago game notwithstanding) and it has to show that improvements are able to be made.
I wonder what the narrative would be around here if we didnt throw 1 of those INTs and got a game winning field goal somewhere in the game, or a TD instead of 3 on one of those possessions we were right there, or if Weeders hits Alex Smith or MoMass when they were open...
We have a 2nd year wideout who seems to be struggling with the new QB...not sure why, would like to see that get fixed. Little has played better, but hasnt seemed to develop chemistry with Weeders yet.
Gordon is in his first year of NFL football after missing a year. Little is a great ally for him, and he has seemed to show that this isnt too much for him yet.
MoMass may actually turn out to be a rock.
Our QB...he forced everything. Tried to make the hero play every single down in his first game. It happens, next week it needs to be preached to just take what is there. If it's the tight end, or the RB in a dump off so be it...Just move the chains and complete passes. Now it doesnt help when Marecic drops an easy one, and Little flubs one into an INT, but that's not where Weeden should abandon anything.
The game looked too fast for him this week. Not that he wasnt ready, not that he wasnt able to start. The game just looked too quick. Positives were that he got the ball out very quick this week, so now he can slow himself down, and take an extra half second to go through his progressions a little more. He did put a lot of trust in his guys on many of his throws, and while they werent good, our guys didnt make great plays on the ball either. This is not to put any blame on our WRs, Weeders played awful.
Things will improve. Chemistry will build. Patience will build. Trust will build. I feel as this was a perfect storm of yuck that hurt Weeders and the offense, and we'll look better against non wide nine schemes, and will look better every week.
Lets just hope shurmur is more open to establishing the run consistently. or Chilly gets louder in his ear about it
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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AHHHHHH...I just found this panic button everyone is talking about! I pushed it! What do I DO>? RUN! AHHHH 
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Dang Toad, you seem so negative......
Is this really Versatile Dawg in Toad clothing? hmmmm  
Hehehe...That's pulling up a ghost from Christmas past, hehe.
It's not negativity. It's a simple question without the kind of answer that some wish existed. The question is how do we fix things, not next year but right now.
Gotta keep that absolutely critical thought in mind.
Right now, we suck. That isn't in question, the pre-season unrealistic optimism notwithstanding.
What's going on right now can't be fixed. Sure, these kids are going to get better, but as a collective team the leap from sucking to playing good football isn't going to be made in-season. It doesn't happen that way.
Now if the question suddenly became this:
"How do we right the ship? Both this year and next year." That becomes a totally different conversation.
There is no way to take this team and watch them go, say, 6-2 or 5-3 during the second half of the season. They'll get better, but not enough to make a huge difference, not in mid-season.
That isn't negativity. That's reality. Nothing wrong with being realistic.
Now if I said we're going to go 1-15 or 0-16, THEN you could call me a Negative-Nancy-Toady 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Actually, I think that we will make a jump in season.
I believe that a lot of mistakes made in the game were mental mistakes.
Last year we eased the offense along, working a few plays at a time, and running many of the same plays over and over again early on. This year we seem to have opened up the playbook, at least in the passing game, and did so with a rookie QB, a pair of rookie WRs, a rookie RT, and a 2nd year LG, TE, (for part of the game, anyway) and WR.
Maybe we need to scale things back just slightly ..... whether the QB made the mistakes, or the WRs did on some plays, or whomever ....... it is obvious that players are making mistakes on many plays ..... and that everyone is not always on the same page.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Okay...The question leaves itself open for a subjective answer. Having said that, for anyone that believes we're going to make a leap in progress, define it.
I say we'll improve, but that there won't be a second-half surge where we are above .500 for any meaningful stretch. To me, going .500 or better for the second half of the season would be "righting the ship."
Ytown, if you would, please define "making a jump." That doesn't necessarily sound the same as "righting the ship."
That's an open-ended question for anyone that would care to play, hehe...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I believe that we will start producing better on offense as the FO learns the plays that the OL can block best in the run game, the plays that Richardson can run the best, and the receivers begin to run the right routes more consistently so we don't wind up with a situation where Benjamin and Little are in the same spot for some unknown reason.
One thing that I kind of though of was how quickly Weeden generally had the ball coming out of his hands. I have no way of knowing this for sure, but it is a theory on some plays, if he was throwing more to spots than to receivers, likely since he got rid of the ball so quickly, then a mistake by either him on a read, or the receiver on a route, could cause a ton of problems.
If this is part of the problem, then it seems likely that this will improve as the year progresses. This is my hope.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Nobody expected us to be 8-8 this year. Most folks on this board said 6 wins was a stretch, so why are we disappointed that we looked like a bunch of chumps. I suspect we will see progress as the season continues on. You cant make seasoned vets out of a band of rookies in 4 preseason games.
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Well, it sounds like I'm naggin' here, but you disagreed with what you perceived that I've said. The words were "Actually, I think we'll make a jump in season." That implies we'll make some big strides. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or maybe that's not what you meant. Saying we'll get better on offense isn't something that disagrees with my own thinking.
So can you put a wins number on that "Jump?" If you're just saying we'll get better, then I say I don't disagree with that. But that isn't the same as "righting the ship."
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Nobody expected us to be 8-8 this year. Most folks on this board said 6 wins was a stretch, so why are we disappointed that we looked like a bunch of chumps. I suspect we will see progress as the season continues on. You cant make seasoned vets out of a band of rookies in 4 preseason games.
Exactly. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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so why are we disappointed that we looked like a bunch of chumps.
Because we lost a game that no one thought we should have one. And there is basically one reason why we lost. Brandon Weeden. That's tough to take.
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I believe we will improve but I have some big worries Weeden hasn't led a single TD drive in 9 quarters of football now. That is alarming.
Greg Little has looked like Robiskie out there. I dont see a great deal of effort nor fun out of him. Benjamin not fighting for the ball can not be tolerated either.
I would send a message to both Little and Benjamin by making them my 5th and 6th receivers next game. I can handle mistakes but lack of effort and enthusiasm by receivers, umm no.
If we want to make major improvements, it has to come from the QB and receivers. They gotta get this stuff worked out. We left atleast 4 gimmie TDs against the Eagles go empty.
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Benjamin is 5'10" at best. Rodgers-Cromartie is 6'2". Bejamin was thrown two jump balls with Cromartie covering him, what is he supposed to do? Little was being covered by Asomugha most of the game.
Last edited by cfrs15; 09/11/12 11:40 AM.
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Hmmm...I can't comment on any perceived lack of effort. I was watching the game streamed and I wasn't looking at that stuff, so I have no comment on it.
What I will say is that Weeden contributed the most to the loss by missing two easy TD passes and throwing panic-button INT's, had the offensive line done anything we wouldn't have had to rely on a rookie at QB.
My point is that while Weeden is the lightning rod, the O-line played equally as badly. No, they weren't that bad in pass-protection, but they were abysmal in the run-game.
IF we're going to make these big strides everyone is hoping for, the line has to play much better, regardless of who is at QB.
As for Weeden, that was bad even by rookie first-game standards. Everyone knows I had him pegged as a non first round guy and think his age is a massive detriment, not an asset. He does have tools to turn this thing around, and I do think he'll get much better. How much better remains to be seen.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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If you cant make the catch, you commit offensive PI and make damn sure the other guy doesnt get it.
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So almost every WR in the league doesn't try?
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It's not negativity. It's a simple question without the kind of answer that some wish existed. The question is how do we fix things, not next year but right now.
Gotta keep that absolutely critical thought in mind.
This is an unacceptable premise from which to start a conversation. The key to getting good is to wait, that's what you must do... wait. Wait for next year, wait for the next draft, wait for guys to mature, wait for us to sign FAs, wait for year of 5 of the 5 year plan... just shut up and freakin wait.
yebat' Putin
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Well, it sounds like I'm naggin' here, but you disagreed with what you perceived that I've said. The words were "Actually, I think we'll make a jump in season." That implies we'll make some big strides. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or maybe that's not what you meant. Saying we'll get better on offense isn't something that disagrees with my own thinking.
So can you put a wins number on that "Jump?" If you're just saying we'll get better, then I say I don't disagree with that. But that isn't the same as "righting the ship."
I get what your saying there. I would have to agree with that. When talking about righting the ship though has to imply the ship is on the wrong course.
That to some extent can be debated but its hard to know atm because its to early to tell.
So I would have to look at not so much wins and loses but overall talent of the team and coaching. I believe the talent level of the team has been improved and will improve so that part is on the right course.
The coaching (which is tied to the W/L part) is what needs to be evaluated the most this season. So while the players may make progress or jumps its the coaching that will ulitimatly decide if the ship truely even needs to be "righted"
I'm no Shurmur fan and Im not for firing coachs after the first game but he will be judged on how much he gets outta the talent we have.
So much as you said, first the question of is the ship off course needs to answered before you can entertain the question of how can we right the ship.
All IMHO of course.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Nobody expected us to be 8-8 this year. Most folks on this board said 6 wins was a stretch, so why are we disappointed that we looked like a bunch of chumps. I suspect we will see progress as the season continues on. You cant make seasoned vets out of a band of rookies in 4 preseason games.
People are disappointed for one simple reason - that was a win that got away due to a terrible offense. The eagles probably won't play that poorly again - we're disappointed because the Browns O played terrible.
Kinda like if you catch a huge bass, and you stand there holding the pole with the fish on the line, hanging over the water - posing for a picture, and the fish gets loose before the picture is taken. You had it, but it got away.
We had the game - but it got away.
Or something like that.......regardless, just because we weren't expected to win doesn't mean we shouldn't be disappointed in how/why we lost.
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Toad, did you listen to the Weeden press conference after the game?
If he isn't Derek Anderson squared then I'm deaf and blind.
Weeden: " I pretty much threw the ball where it needed to go all day." What? You were 12 for 35.
Weeden: " I was pretty amped up, I am going to continue to be amped up". " It was pretty much fun out there, I had a lot of fun, I wish the results were different".
Just listen to this guy. Does he sound like the lights are on?
Once again the league has proven it takes much more than size and a strong arm to play in the NFL.
This guy will be flushed out of the league in three years.
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Toad, did you listen to the Weeden press conference after the game?
If he isn't Derek Anderson squared then I'm deaf and blind.
Weeden: " I pretty much threw the ball where it needed to go all day." What? You were 12 for 35.
Weeden: " I was pretty amped up, I am going to continue to be amped up". " It was pretty much fun out there, I had a lot of fun, I wish the results were different".
Just listen to this guy. Does he sound like the lights are on?
Once again the league has proven it takes much more than size and a strong arm to play in the NFL.
This guy will be flushed out of the league in three years.
lol I didnt hear that and Im glad. I only wish Sipe had made that same where the ball should go throw (to the woman in the red dress). 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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How do we right the ship?
Stop rocking and upsetting the boat.
Too much over-correcting, not enough of letting things find their own level.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Actually, I think that we will make a jump in season.
I believe that a lot of mistakes made in the game were mental mistakes.
For once we agree on something Ytown.. let's see how it unfolds.. this isn't the time for knee jerk reactions.
Now look, if this was the 7th game of the season and we're still playing O like we did on Sunday,,, ok, I'll understand that its time to rethink things.. make some moves, shift a lot around.
But Geez,,, after one game... wow
#GMSTRONG
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How do we right the ship?
Stop rocking and upsetting the boat.
Too much over-correcting, not enough of letting things find their own level.
absurd! We need to fire everyone, cut everyone except Dawson and sign vets that know what they are doing.
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Quote:
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How do we right the ship?
Stop rocking and upsetting the boat.
Too much over-correcting, not enough of letting things find their own level.
absurd! We need to fire everyone, cut everyone except Dawson and sign vets that know what they are doing.
Wait you forgot and give up all our draft picks too.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831 |
It's ONE GAME. We've been terrible because everyone wants to change everything every other week. None of those changes will do anything but cause further setbacks. Re-evaulate at the end of the year or in December, not just after one game..a game which we lost by one point.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,902
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,902 |
Here's your answer Toad. There is no fixing right now.
Colt only started one game in pre-season. Which he went on to stink up the joint.
No matter which QB starts, we won't be making the playoffs. At that juncture, what real difference does it make? You may win a couple of more games with a QB who this FO has already determined will not be the answer, or you can forge forward, let Weeden play and see what we have in him by the end of the season.
Either way the outcome isn't pretty for the short term. Thinking short term doesn't solve problems. It's simply putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.
To me it's rather simple. We can let Weeden play and see if he has anytyhing going forward by the end of the season. Or.... We can play Colt and have no idea what we have in Weeden by the end of the season.
The latter of the two only removes us yet one more year and retards us one more year in knowing what we do or don't have at the QB position.
How can that be called progress?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,902
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,902 |
Ahhhh, but there is a huge difference in disapointment and some of the tirades we've read on this board.
Not directing that toward you. Just a general comment.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
lol, this is the same nonsense I heard when I called for Holmgren's head two years ago. Go ostrich on this all you want but Shurmur ain't suddenly gonna become a great coach and Weeden in just plain lost. Buy hey, hope and pray. Hope and pray. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
I never stated my opinion on what we should do. I surely do not think a complete overhaul after the first game of the season is the answer. So claim I'm going ostrich all you want. I just prefer to get a larger sample before I make up my mind on things.
Based on what I saw from several teams yesterday, I think half the league should blow up their their teams using your standards, because 15 ther teams lost yesterday as well, and most by a much larger margin than we did.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Quote:
lol, this is the same nonsense I heard when I called for Holmgren's head two years ago. Go ostrich on this all you want but Shurmur ain't suddenly gonna become a great coach and Weeden in just plain lost. Buy hey, hope and pray. Hope and pray.
More like the pot calling the kettle black 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
I bet none of the other teams that lost yesterday had the other team work as hard as the Eagles did to give it away.
yebat' Putin
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