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The Good Ole Boys League never fails.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I see your point and admire your optimism. I don't think you're being over the top with it at all as I have seen with some.
I guess I see it more of the 50/50 route though.
I do give Banner a far better grade coming in than Policy but neither of them are in my mind "real football guys". More from the attorney/numbers mode.
I have hope but it is somewhat guarded at this juncture.
Yeah,, 50/50 is about all I can give it today.. That will change as events unfold no doubt.. Which way,,, hell if I know. LOL
As for Real Football Guys.... I think if Ozzie Newsome were to buy a team, then you could say,, A REAL FOOTBALL GUY.. or Bernie Kosar, or Joe Montana.
But not one of them have the $$ to do it. I think Bernie would in a heartbeat if he had the money, but hell, he's lucky he can buy lunch the way some folks talk. (sad to say that by the way).
Bill Polian would be another guy that I'd consider a "Real Football Guy" but again, he doesn't have the dough to do it.
Now, if a guy like Haslam hired Polian, I'd have to say.. hmm.. Real Football Guy 
Thing is, we don't know that isn't being talked about do we. We don't hear it, we haven't seen any rumors (I should say I haven't)
But if Haslam hired Polian and maybe even his son,,, My estimation of the possibility of success would rise.
wouldn't yours?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I haven't read anything about it, but what's the Haslem/Banner relationship?
How does the guy from Tenn/Pitt know the guy from Philly, and why do they have such a good relationship?
Just wondering.
As Jimmy Haslam finalizes a deal to buy the Browns, only a week after news of the deal between Haslam and Randy Lerner first broke, Haslam acknowledges that former Eagles president Joe Banner has had a role in the transaction.
“We did consult with several people on an unofficial basis, and one of them was [Banner],” Haslam tells Adam Schefter of ESPN. “But we’re not going to comment on any potential hires at this time.”
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/03/haslam-says-banner-was-an-unofficial-consultant/
Could have been a deal brokered between Haslam and Banner from the very beginning. At least it would appear that could very well be the case here.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well if's and buts aren't did and he's going to....... but yes. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I dare say that Al Lerners resume was as good or maybe even better than Haslams.
Al had a great resume. Unfortunately (like many of us on here) he got suckered into Carmen Policy's illusion. I think given time Al would have taken this team to great heights. Randy on the other hand did not buy the team. He inherited it on Al Lerner's passing. RAndy's resume was not stellar by any means.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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I dare say that Al Lerners resume was as good or maybe even better than Haslams.
Al had a great resume. Unfortunately (like many of us on here) he got suckered into Carmen Policy's illusion. I think given time Al would have taken this team to great heights. Randy on the other hand did not buy the team. He inherited it on Al Lerner's passing. RAndy's resume was not stellar by any means.
That could be as simple as it is.. I think we also know for sure now that Randy tried to honor his father by retaining ownership for as long as he did. But I think it's pretty clear now, he never wanted it.
Lots of you guys said that all along, I couldn't accept that because I never put the "Honor Thy Father" piece together. So I thought, if he didn't want it, he'd just sell it.
Apparently I was not correct.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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I dare say that Al Lerners resume was as good or maybe even better than Haslams.
Al had a great resume. Unfortunately (like many of us on here) he got suckered into Carmen Policy's illusion. I think given time Al would have taken this team to great heights. Randy on the other hand did not buy the team. He inherited it on Al Lerner's passing. RAndy's resume was not stellar by any means.
That could be as simple as it is.. I think we also know for sure now that Randy tried to honor his father by retaining ownership for as long as he did. But I think it's pretty clear now, he never wanted it.
Lots of you guys said that all along, I couldn't accept that because I never put the "Honor Thy Father" piece together. So I thought, if he didn't want it, he'd just sell it.
Apparently I was not correct.
He couldn't sell it for 10 years after his dad died.
It's now been 10 years.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Well if's and buts aren't did and he's going to....... but yes.
LOL,, Ok,, I know.. Pipe dream, but yeah, you'd have to call the polians REAL FOOTBALL PEOPLE wouldn't you?. So hey, they get involved and you gotta give the place some instant cred.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And that's really all I've been saying all along. Until we see who they hire and who runs the ship, we have no idea how this new owner will pan out. Even then, can we be sure at first? When Andy Reid was hired, he had never been an NFL HC, DC or an OC. He was a positions coach. Sometimes it's not just about a name, it's about getting it right.... I dare say that some people worked wonders "in their time". Even the pencil pushers. But often as times change and the circumstances change, those same people don't always manage to change and adapt along with the times. Often times that's why some highly regarded people seem suddenly available. Not refering to Polian per say here..... 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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And that's really all I've been saying all along.
Until we see who they hire and who runs the ship, we have no idea how this new owner will pan out. Even then, can we be sure at first?
When Andy Reid was hired, he had never been an NFL HC, DC or an OC. He was a positions coach. Sometimes it's not just about a name, it's about getting it right....
I dare say that some people worked wonders "in their time". Even the pencil pushers. But often as times change and the circumstances change, those same people don't always manage to change and adapt along with the times.
Often times that's why some highly regarded people seem suddenly available. Not refering to Polian per say here.....
I get it,, we agree
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We tried to tell you the "five year plan" was a thing that walked hand-in-hand down the yellow-brick road with the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, but you had your head stuck back there in the 80's.
Toad...you must be the only person on this message board that doesn't know that Holmgren and Heckert started a 5 year plan to rebuild this franchise via the draft...
...OR, you just can't tell the truth about knowing that Holmgren and Heckert started a 5 yr rebuilding.
Everyone in Cleveland knows about the 5 yr plan...but toad.
Just a week ago Holmgren referred to the 5 yr plan in Sept 4 interview where he stated the following...
CLEVELAND (92.3 The Fan) - Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren is hoping that he along with general manager Tom Heckert and coach Pat Shurmur will be given the opportunity to see the 5-year rebuilding plan through. web page
Toad...I believe I know why you don't want to admit the existence of a 5 yr plan...that would not fit your "agenda", would it?
I went back and read some of your posts when the Browns hired Holmgren and in the months/years after...I must say, you had a "man crush" on Holmgren and the WCO. You agreed with most of the hires Holmgren made too...
I guess you are one of those "Browns fans" that never have done anything hard in your lifetime...never done anything that required sacrifice over a period of years...such as 5 yrs. You are one of the "quick, easy fix" type who quickly jump from one idea to the next, always looking for easy and quick way out...I guess?
Well, the Browns have tried the quick and easy fix since 1999 and it didn't work out so well for the Browns...DID IT?
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Jimmy Haslam NEVER...I repeat...NEVER...said he would keep the coaches. YOU wrongly interpreted what he said to fit what you WISHED would happen.
toad...I'm not going to "spin" Haslam's words...I'm going to post them...
...from the Peter King interview...
"One thing Haslam has judged -- critically -- very early is the Browns' coaching merry-go-round. "They've averaged a new coach once every 2.8 years [since the franchise returned to Cleveland in 1999],'' Haslam told me, "and that's just not a good recipe.'' Do the math: Excluding interim coach Terry Robiskie in relief of Butch Davis in 2004, Cleveland's had five head coach in the 14 seasons between 1999 and 2012 -- 2.8 seasons per coach. "One thing I learned from watching the Steelers is the importance of consistency in coaching, and how much it sets you back when you're always making a change. When you change coaches, it can be a three- or four-year deal to get back.''
So, what does this paragraph mean?
First, I'm in agreement with Haslam, that changing coaches every 2.8 years is not a good way to run a team and I totally agree with Haslam when he says making those frequent coaching changes sets the franchise back 3 or 4 yrs to regain stability.
But in Cleveland, we fans also know that it's not just the coaching changes that have hurt the franchise's ability to succeed. When owners are changing GMs and allowing changes in other areas, such as the scouting department (Butch Davis) for example...those moves come back to hurt the franchise in other ways.
While Haslam was (correctly) doing his math about changing coaches every 2.8 yrs, he should have been checking into how often the Browns make changes in the personnel department...he would have found that the Browns change GM by "exactly" the same number...every 2.8 yrs.
The Browns change GMs and coaches every 2.8 yrs ...
We have discussed this subject, the frequency with which the Browns change coaches, GM, front office, etc and I believe the fans realize "CHANGE" has been one of the enemies of Browns.
When Haslam made his comment above about changing coaches every 2.8 yrs, I thought to myself...HE GETS IT.
But now we hear the reports that Joe "freaking" Banner, the bean counter, is going to replace Holmgren. If Haslam makes that move, it will lead to many more of the people Holmgren convinced to come to Cleveland, to leave. It will be like a stack of dominos falling and in the end, Jimmy Haslam will have done exactly what he railed against with his comments above concerning "change".
Our new "truck stop owner" is going create an environment of change, proving to be a hypocrite, unable to heed his own advise.
Last edited by mac; 09/14/12 08:03 AM.
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Our new "truck stop owner" is going create an environment of change, proving to be a hypocrite, unable to heed his own advise.
Prepare yourself people,, this will be the new "Ham Sandwich" catch phrase
Speaking of which, what ever happened to Akron Joe. did he eat some bad sushi or something?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Speaking of which, what ever happened to Akron Joe. did he eat some bad sushi or something?
Good question. I actually started saving a file of his quotes last year so I could dust them off from time to time this season.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Just clicking.
Why are we talking about things that haven't happened yet as though they are facts?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Toad...you must be the only person on this message board that doesn't know that Holmgren and Heckert started a 5 year plan to rebuild this franchise via the draft...
...OR, you just can't tell the truth about knowing that Holmgren and Heckert started a 5 yr rebuilding.
Everyone in Cleveland knows about the 5 yr plan...but toad.
Sure, it started out as a 5-year plan, but you were warned that after Walrus blew it with Mangini, then blew it with McCoy, and in the 3rd year essentially started over that there was no 5-year plan.
He never stood a chance of seeing it. And here we are with Holmgren calling Mayflower to pack his stuff back to Seattle...
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toad...I'm not going to "spin" Haslam's words...I'm going to post them...
No, you aren't spinning them. You're misinterpreting them.
But you've been told that repeatedly by various people. You didn't get it then and you aren't getting it now. But go ahead and play Peetey Parrot and tell yourself he said what he didn't really say. It's not going to change the true meaning of his words, which aren't what you think they say...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Sure, it started out as a 5-year plan, but you were warned that after Walrus blew it with Mangini, then blew it with McCoy, and in the 3rd year essentially started over that there was no 5-year plan.
Toad...so you are admitting there was a 5 yr plan?...that, in itself, is progress.
... but then suddenly you say "there was no 5-year plan" because Mangini was fired and our 3rd round pick of the 2010 draft, is not a franchise QB.
If you can, post the articles that backup what you are claiming above...ok?
Toad...in 2010...Holmgren hired Heckert and together, with the approval of Lerner, they establish "a plan" to rebuild the Browns roster VIA THE DRAFT, over a 5 year period...that is what is known as, "the 5 yr plan".
The 2010 draft was the first installment of that 5 yr plan, as Heckert drafted defense, using the 1st and 2nd round picks on the defensive backfield...Haden, Ward.
Concerning Mangini...it didn't matter if Mangini stayed or was fired, because who was HC had no bearing on who Heckert drafted. Mangini lost the power to influence the draft when Holmgren took over and hired Heckert as GM.
Concerning McCoy...this idea that Holmgren "blew it" by telling Heckert to draft McCoy is pure bull...aka, "Toad spin" !
McCoy was chosen in the 3rd round, not usually a round where a team finds their franchise QB....don't you agree Toad? ...you ever hear of a team targeting their franchise QB, IN THE 3RD ROUND?
Holmgren and Heckert took a chance that McCoy might possibly develop into the Browns starting QB. If it worked out, the Browns "might" find their QB at a bargain price in the 3rd round...a slight gamble at best, with minimal investment, in terms of the draft slot.
Picking McCoy in the 3rd round did not set the rebuilding program back because the Browns didn't draft McCoy as a franchise QB. McCoy was drafted with the intention of sitting behind Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace and he would be developed over time.
McCoy ended up playing due to the two veterans being injured and they could not stay healthy long enough to take the job away from McCoy.
McCoy was drafted with the idea that the least he would be is a good backup. Also, McCoy in the 3rd round was a bargain as a backup because the Browns were paying the two veterans millions, so drafting McCoy turned out to be a good economic move the following year when Delhomme was let go.
Firing Mangini nor drafting McCoy did anything to change the plan to rebuild the Browns roster "VIA THE DRAFT", over a 5 year period.
The 5 yr plan continued in 2011, when the Browns drafted a DT and DE. In the first two drafts, the Browns had laid down the foundation for their defense.
The 5 yr plan continue in 2012 as Heckert drafted a rb, qb, rt and wr (via supplemental), laying the foundation for the offense. With this draft, the Browns have the youngest roster in the NFL, as 15 rookies were added to the roster this season.
All that is left is the 4th and 5th drafts of the 5 yr plan. Once those are completed, the rebuilding of the Browns roster, via the draft will be complete.
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o, you aren't spinning them. You're misinterpreting them.
But you've been told that repeatedly by various people. You didn't get it then and you aren't getting it now. But go ahead and play Peetey Parrot and tell yourself he said what he didn't really say. It's not going to change the true meaning of his words, which aren't what you think they say...
Try again Toad...
...from the Peter King interview...
"One thing Haslam has judged -- critically -- very early is the Browns' coaching merry-go-round. "They've averaged a new coach once every 2.8 years [since the franchise returned to Cleveland in 1999],'' Haslam told me, "and that's just not a good recipe.'' Do the math: Excluding interim coach Terry Robiskie in relief of Butch Davis in 2004, Cleveland's had five head coach in the 14 seasons between 1999 and 2012 -- 2.8 seasons per coach. "One thing I learned from watching the Steelers is the importance of consistency in coaching, and how much it sets you back when you're always making a change. When you change coaches, it can be a three- or four-year deal to get back.''
Haslam is pointing his finger at the previous owners of the Browns, namely Al and Randy Lerner, claiming that their record of naming a new coach every 2.8 yrs, hurt the franchise chances for success.
I have pointed out that it is more than just changing coaches that has hurt the Browns. We fans know what goes with changing coaches...we have lived it since 1999. The management leadership changes, GMs change, coaches change.
When Haslam starts changing the team, especially the leadership of the franchise, he is no different than those he pointed his finger at, singling them out for the changes they made every 2.8 yrs, Al and Randy Lerner. Thus Jimmy "the truck stop owner" is nothing but a hypocrite, ushering in his own brand of changes.
Everyone knows, it's not just the changing of coaches that set the franchise back...it is the constant change within the organization that has destroyed the consistency a franchise needs if they are to ever win a Super Bowl.
Haslam is about to set the Browns back another 3 or 4 yrs, by the time he and HIS CRONIES get done with their changes. They will try to tell the Browns fans, their changes are different than those the franchise experienced under Al and Randy Lerner...
...to that I say...BULL.
If Holmgren goes, he will just be the first, with many more to follow...and Jimmy "the truck stop owner" will be no different than our previous owners.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Yes Toad, this FO was so set that the #85 pick in the draft would be our next franchise QB! I thought you could tell the difference in when they were protecting the fans and lying for the sake of business? I told you that you couldn't tell them apart. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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When Haslam starts changing the team, especially the leadership of the franchise, he is no different than those he pointed his finger at, singling them out for the changes they made every 2.8 yrs, Al and Randy Lerner. Thus Jimmy "the truck stop owner" is nothing but a hypocrite, ushering in his own brand of changes
there are 2 sides to that coin though. yeah, change hurts. it is difficult to build a team without a foundation and we not only changed the coaches but also the types of players that we needed so constantly that we never built that foundation.
however, if Haslam and whoever he brings with him (seems to be Banner) decides that they do not trust those in charge currently, then it is imperative that they root them out and put in place people that they trust. One of the key components to building a successful franchise is to have top-to-bottom trust and if we don't have that then there is not reason to "try to make that work"
if he then starts hiring/firing coaches every 3 years onwards, then yes, he is a hypocrite.
the end. finite.
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Which is why Holmgren should of gotten rid of Mangini from the start.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Which is why Holmgren should of gotten rid of Mangini from the start.
agreed. if he wasn't going to go all-in with him, then it was a mistake to keep him and the other coaches for the year. especially considering the defensive switch.
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If you can, post the articles that backup what you are claiming above...ok?
Okay, then post articles stating Haslam is a hypocrite. 
That the best you've got?
Fact: Holmgren talked about a 5-year plan.
Fact: Holmgren screwed the pooch multiple times.
Fact: People told YOU the 5-year plan was out the window.
Fact: You said there still was one.
And now while it's not fact but rather almost a foregone conclusion that Haslam is going to bring in his own people you're calling him a liar and a hypocrite.
You're common sense compass ain't exactly pointing North. 
Now I'm going to ignore all the other BS rhetoric because it's all just fluff and repetitive drivel which finally ended with this sentence:
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Firing Mangini nor drafting McCoy did anything to change the plan to rebuild the Browns roster "VIA THE DRAFT", over a 5 year period.
If you honestly believe that they didn't hand McCoy the job in 2011 without competition then your minds-eye can see about as well as Stevie Wonder. If you then don't realize that him flaming out didn't immediately result in us badly reaching on an unprecedented soon-to-be 29-year old rookie QB then you're as blind as...oh yeah...covered that.
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All that is left is the 4th and 5th drafts of the 5 yr plan. Once those are completed, the rebuilding of the Browns roster, via the draft will be complete.
Blind devotion. Wow. What month is the Mothership gonna land?
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Haslam is pointing his finger at the previous owners of the Browns, namely Al and Randy Lerner, claiming that their record of naming a new coach every 2.8 yrs, hurt the franchise chances for success.
I have pointed out that it is more than just changing coaches that has hurt the Browns. We fans know what goes with changing coaches...we have lived it since 1999. The management leadership changes, GMs change, coaches change.
When Haslam starts changing the team, especially the leadership of the franchise, he is no different than those he pointed his finger at, singling them out for the changes they made every 2.8 yrs, Al and Randy Lerner. Thus Jimmy "the truck stop owner" is nothing but a hypocrite, ushering in his own brand of changes.
I wonder how many more people are going to have to tell you how flat-out blind and wrong you are before you understand what Haslam said.
Maybe DC will take another stab at it, but I won't.
This is where one of my favorite quotes applies:
If I try and teach a monkey to fly a rocket ship and it constantly fails, should I be mad at the monkey, or mad at myself...
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Haslam is about to set the Browns back another 3 or 4 yrs
From where I'm sitting, we're at the very bottom of a rebuild. We have more rookies and 2nd year guys than any team in the league. The very worst he can do is set us back one season. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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From where I'm sitting, we're at the very bottom of a rebuild. We have more rookies and 2nd year guys than any team in the league. The very worst he can do is set us back one season.
well, I'd say that the bottom of a rebuild is having a bunch of mediocre aging veterans that are not good enough to win games.
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Which is why Holmgren should of gotten rid of Mangini from the start.
Who would he have brought in as head coach then?
I remain convinced that Holmgren's plan was to have Mangini go through the tough schedule we had in 2010, replace him with a coach of his choosing for the easier 2011 schedule, and look like a genius when the team showed so much improvement.
However, it didn't work out that way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Which is why Holmgren should of gotten rid of Mangini from the start.
agreed. if he wasn't going to go all-in with him, then it was a mistake to keep him and the other coaches for the year. especially considering the defensive switch.
While this part of the subject is all opinion, to me it made sence to stay with Mangini. Most the players were still "His players" and they finished the year before strong winning the last 4 games.
The worse he could do is fail (which he did), while as someone else said the rebuild was just begining and he was replaced.
During the first year we had all our QB's go down and Colt showed just enough that they decided to give him a good look.
There was no other QB on the roster that had more upside/potential so much like Weeden this year, they give him the shot to see what happens.
I still see that as doing two things you just about completed the defense in year 2 found out that Colt is not going to morph into something great, so in year 3 start to build the Offense and it just so happened we got another QB from a previous trade.
I just dont see how those things are total failures in the overall picture of a 5 year rebuilding plan. You replace what you can, and work with whats left, each year adding to the peices.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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One of the key components to building a successful franchise is to have top-to-bottom trust and if we don't have that then there is not reason to "try to make that work"
You mean like we have right now at this moment?
Sorry I couldn't help myself 
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One of the key components to building a successful franchise is to have top-to-bottom trust and if we don't have that then there is not reason to "try to make that work"
You mean like we have right now at this moment?
Sorry I couldn't help myself
except that Lerner apparently didn't trust himself 
#gmstrong
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Which is why Holmgren should of gotten rid of Mangini from the start.
Who would he have brought in as head coach then?
I remain convinced that Holmgren's plan was to have Mangini go through the tough schedule we had in 2010, replace him with a coach of his choosing for the easier 2011 schedule, and look like a genius when the team showed so much improvement.
However, it didn't work out that way.
I just think that he just didn't want to make his choices out of hast and wanted that time to weigh his options on the staff he wanted to assemble.
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Haslam is about to set the Browns back another 3 or 4 yrs
From where I'm sitting, we're at the very bottom of a rebuild. We have more rookies and 2nd year guys than any team in the league. The very worst he can do is set us back one season.
Well, if he fires Holmgren & Co. then he might actually be improving the team by using the tried and true method of 'addition by subtraction'.
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kinda like how we had BB here and he was building one of the stongest FO teams ever? You dont know until you know? Right? Whoops sorry that got nixed. NM a good sauce can never be cooked until its had time to simmer for just a litlle while?
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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From where I'm sitting, we're at the very bottom of a rebuild. We have more rookies and 2nd year guys than any team in the league. The very worst he can do is set us back one season.
Pretty weak response, toad...nothing to back up your claim...this..
...."Sure, it started out as a 5-year plan, but you were warned that after Walrus blew it with Mangini, then blew it with McCoy, and in the 3rd year essentially started over that there was no 5-year plan.".....
This above is just the toad, making stuff up again.
Not one article to back up your claim about the 5 yr plan "starting over"
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McCoy
toad...football question...the area you like to claim superiority in... ...
...the QUESTION...in the draft, do NFL teams target 3rd round QBs to be their franchise QB?
I believe I asked you this question before...you seem to shy away from it...I will give you another chance to answer.
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Fact: People told YOU the 5-year plan was out the window.
No toad...YOU made the claim that the 5 year plan was out the window...yet the 3rd draft to rebuild this roster via the draft took place right on schedule with Heckert turning the franchise's attention toward the offense in this draft.
I gave you a link to a story just last week where Holmgren referred to the 5 year plan. The 5 year plan didn't change and is on schedule with the foundation for the defense and offense now drafted.
Honestly toad....imo, you don't even understand what the 5 yr plan is.
The 5 yr plan is not about winning x number of games in yrs 1, 2, or 3 of the rebuild...it's about rebuilding the Browns roster with young talent that will produce for years to come. It's about building something that will last and not resorting to the "quick fix" of snagging some high priced free agents hoping they will produce a winner. It's about building a foundation under this franchise that will last and produce for years to come.
Come to think of it...it's about building the Browns the way the Steelers were built.
The Browns now have the youngest roster in the NFL and these young guys will get better as they gain experience and learn under defensive coordinator Dick Jauron and offensive coordinator Brad Childress.
I have always said the payoff for the sacrifices made in the first 3 yrs of the rebuild, will begin in year 4 of the 5 yr plan.
Toad, you seem to planted in the ways of the past...the quick fix, win now stuff that the Browns tried in the 12 yrs before Holmgren and Heckert decided to rebuild the roster, beginning with the draft in 2010.
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And now while it's not fact but rather almost a foregone conclusion that Haslam is going to bring in his own people you're calling him a liar and a hypocrite.
toad...Haslam is about to make himself out to be a hypocrite if he begins making changes in the management and coaching structure of the Browns.
Like I said, Haslam had the nerve to point his finger at Al and Randy Lerner about the changes they made every 2.8 yrs...knowing he would be doing exactly the same thing when he took over.
If Haslam has the football sense to leave things alone, I will admit I was wrong....but I doubt I'm wrong.
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If you honestly believe that they didn't hand McCoy the job in 2011 without competition then your minds-eye can see about as well as Stevie Wonder.
toad...about this...Do NFL teams target 3rd round QBs to be "franchise QBs"?
McCoy played better than some expected his rookie year. 2011 was the lockout year and McCoy, not Seneca Wallace, took the initiative to hold team workouts in the absence of any OTAs.
Toad...from a management perspective, who would you have named as the starter, Seneca Wallace?
Fact is, 2011 was year 2 of the 5 yr plan and the Browns again went defense in the draft, drafting DT and DE in rounds 1 and 2.
With the 3rd year of the draft coming up in 2012, management had to find out if McCoy was capable of being "the QB", so they would know if they needed to draft a QB in the 2012 draft.
It sure as hell doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out, toad...just a little knowledge and understanding about football and how the Browns were being built, under the 5 year rebuilding plan.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Just clicking.
Why are we talking about things that haven't happened yet as though they are facts?
You got anything better to discuss until the game starts tomorrow?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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From where I'm sitting, we're at the very bottom of a rebuild. We have more rookies and 2nd year guys than any team in the league. The very worst he can do is set us back one season.
We spendt most of the first two years re-building the D mainly counting on FA's at LB. Now we are rebbuilding the O with two young LB'ers.
It's not hard to see that when looking at the draft investents. I don't know where exactly it is that you're sitting, but it must be in one of those fuzzy math zones.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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What it means mac, is once you commit to someone, you stick with them. Haslam hasn't commited and isn't commited to anyone yet.
That's where I think you're off base. Haslam hasn't hired ANYONE here.
According to what he says, once he does, it will be for the long haul.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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From where I'm sitting, we're at the very bottom of a rebuild. We have more rookies and 2nd year guys than any team in the league. The very worst he can do is set us back one season.
We spendt most of the first two years re-building the D mainly counting on FA's at LB. Now we are rebbuilding the O with two young LB'ers.
It's not hard to see that when looking at the draft investents. I don't know where exactly it is that you're sitting, but it must be in one of those fuzzy math zones.
Toad is right about one thing though. We are at the bottom of our rebuild ... ON OFFENCE that is lol.
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Quote:
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From where I'm sitting, we're at the very bottom of a rebuild. We have more rookies and 2nd year guys than any team in the league. The very worst he can do is set us back one season.
We spendt most of the first two years re-building the D mainly counting on FA's at LB. Now we are rebbuilding the O with two young LB'ers.
It's not hard to see that when looking at the draft investents. I don't know where exactly it is that you're sitting, but it must be in one of those fuzzy math zones.
Toad is right about one thing though. We are at the bottom of our rebuild ... ON OFFENCE that is lol.
Personally, I wouldn't call it the bottom, I'd call it the start. Means the same thing, but sounds better
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Personally, I wouldn't call it the bottom, I'd call it the start. Means the same thing, but sounds better
That would be my opinion Damon. Yes, they've had some misses in the draft just like all 31 other NFL FO's. But the people trying to say they somehow tied their future to a #85 draft pick at QB really ought to sit back and listen to themselves for a minute.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Here's a sobering thought: If McCoy had turned into a great starter and the Browns not spend the #22 pick on the oldest rookie QB in history and opened themselves up to huge criticism, would Holmgren be on the way out
Not only would we have not spent the 22nd pick in the 2012 draft on the oldest rookie QB in history, asking him to do something that has never been done, but that pick could have gone to another position of great need.
Holmgren bet his reputation on McCoy and that bet failed. The media speaks of that failure as one of the reasons Holmgren's tenure here has been anything but stellar.
There isn't any one thing that has doomed Holmgren. It's been the accumulated smaller failures which resulted in us nearly starting over in his 3rd season, though keeping Mangini was a rather sizable error in judgment.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Here's a sobering thought: If McCoy had turned into a great starter and the Browns not spend the #22 pick on the oldest rookie QB in history and opened themselves up to huge criticism, would Holmgren be on the way out
Not only would we have not spent the 22nd pick in the 2012 draft on the oldest rookie QB in history, asking him to do something that has never been done, but that pick could have gone to another position of great need.
Holmgren bet his reputation on McCoy and that bet failed. The media speaks of that failure as one of the reasons Holmgren's tenure here has been anything but stellar.
There isn't any one thing that has doomed Holmgren. It's been the accumulated smaller failures which resulted in us nearly starting over in his 3rd season, though keeping Mangini was a rather sizable error in judgment.
Here's an even more sobering thought, where is it etched in stone that holmgren is on his way out at all?
Again, I know all the reports we've read,, Banner this, banner that.. etc.
But again, the way that Haslam and his father fawned over Holmgren and speak of him in terms that make it sound like he's their hero, which to you believe?
funny thing, having said that, I really don't have a clue if holmgren is going and if he does if it will be his choice or Haslams. I know that if he leaves, they will, out of courtesy to holmgren, make it appear to be his choice... they'll make it look like he wants to retire. (actually, he may really want to,, who knows)
I'd really laugh my butt off if everyone stays..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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But again, the way that Haslam and his father fawned over Holmgren and speak of him in terms that make it sound like he's their hero, which to you believe?
Do you really think that a man that has hardly been immersed in the business of professional football is going to publicly state that a future HOF coach sucked in his executive role and will be relinquished of his duties once the sale of the team is official? Haslam said the right things in his pressers, that's all I'm taking it as. I believe it's already been hashed out about how you can't believe what any of these guys say to the media. We all will truly know how they feel by their actions on their words.
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