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Damn fine post mac.
That Toad, he's a stinker alright.
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You get FUNNY when you get upset, Mac. 
Nah, I'm done answering your questions. 
All that needs to be said can be found in one lil' sentence:
Quote:
Most fans do not understand the rebuilding plan that was started in 2010...
Ahh...but you're the genius that figured it out. Well, at least you did give some fans a smidgeon of credit for getting it just like you did, while the majority of ignorant, uneducated hicks which populate this board weren't smart enough to decipher the riddle. 
Afterall, the rebuilding plan which was started in 2010 had our current structure in place. I'm SOOOOO glad Eric Mangini is still our head coach, that we're still running the 3-4, and that Brian Daboll is masterminding this powerful offense with Colt McCoy running it...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
You get FUNNY when you get upset, Mac.
Nah, I'm done answering your questions.
All that needs to be said can be found in one lil' sentence:
Quote:
Most fans do not understand the rebuilding plan that was started in 2010...
Ahh...but you're the genius that figured it out. Well, at least you did give some fans a smidgeon of credit for getting it just like you did, while the majority of ignorant, uneducated hicks which populate this board weren't smart enough to decipher the riddle.
Afterall, the rebuilding plan which was started in 2010 had our current structure in place. I'm SOOOOO glad Eric Mangini is still our head coach, that we're still running the 3-4, and that Brian Daboll is masterminding this powerful offense with Colt McCoy running it...
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Toad...EVERYTHING you mention above...was addressed in my response...TRY AGAIN....
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It's not even "dislike." It's "approval" or "disapproval."
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toad...go try to convince someone else...your own words expose you...
...this toad quote..."If you hated Mike Holmgren you wouldn't be taking this path."
and...this toad quote ... "If you hated Holmgren and the rest you'd be singing a different tune."
You know I don't hate Holmgren so you must be speaking of why I don't join you in your hatred of him...no other way to interpret your comments...nice try though.
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I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea to express exactly why I'm very close to wanting Holmgren out.
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toad..."very close" ?...who are you trying to BS...you want Holmgren gone in the worst way...don't start backtracking now.
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Holmgren stated that the drafts belonged to Heckert, but when McCoy was on the board, Holmgren threw his weight around and took the kid. Now I have never liked micro-managers, and this one move showed that Holmgren was just that. I didn't believe in McCoy coming out, but actually made a statement that I'd give McCoy the benefit of the doubt only because Holmgren had a well-earned reputation as a QB-guru. However, it didn't take long to understand that McCoy didn't have it, and that Holmgren's reputation took a huge hit with that mistake.
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toad...I've tried to explain to you that McCoy was not drafted to be the franchise QB.
I have asked you several times to answer this question...but you run from it, refusing to answer it...
Do NFL teams target 3rd round QB to be their franchise QB?
I know the answer and so do you...but the answer blows up your claim that Holmgren blew the 3rd round pick on McCoy in the 2010 draft.
The Browns signed Seneca Wallace on March 8, 2010 and Jake Delhomme on March 14, 2010...
...TOAD, do you believe Holmgren was looking for a franchise QB in the 3rd round of the 2010 draft?
knowing he already had two veteran QBs signed?
I doubt you have the guts to give an honest answer, if you answer at all, so I will answer the question for you...
...NO, teams do not target 3rd round QBs to be their franchise QB. When a team drafts a QB in the 3rd round, they are looking for someone who will at the worst, turnout to be a decent backup QB, which might be all McCoy ever becomes...BUT, if the Browns would happen to get lucky and McCoy turned out to be "that" franchise QB that 99% of NFL teams target in round 1...McCoy would be a steal for the Browns.
The truth is, McCoy was drafted to be the #3 qb on the 2010 roster...not the starter...he was supposed to sit and learn his rookie year. Due to injuries, high ankle sprains to Delhomme and Wallace in the 5th game against the Falcons, McCoy was forced to start the following week against the Steelers and had a decent game in a loss, passing for 280 yds.
McCoy then started the next 4 games with victories over the Saints and Patriots and then a loss to the Jets in OT and 4 point loss at the Jags. Delhomme got healthy and started two games, both wins but Delhomme was hurt again and McCoy started the last 3 games.
The Browns terminated Delhomme's contract the following year, which turned out to be a lock out year and a year in which the Browns changed coaches. But, due to the lockout, the coaching staff could not even talk to their players, so McCoy took it upon himself to hold mini camps in Texas. McCoy also took it upon himself to seek out some advise on the new WCO, contacting and spending time with Brett Favre.
What did Seneca Wallace do ??? NOTHING
So once the strike was over, McCoy was named the starter as the entire team worked to adjust to NEW EVERYTHING. McCoy started 13 games, playing behind a poor offensive line that started inexperienced OGs and below average RTs which lead to McCoy taking a lot of punishment, while his receivers led the league in dropped passes.
Toad...so there you have it...the truth...the Browns spent backup draft value on McCoy who may be nothing better than backup value...but the jury is still out.
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Then there's the failed move with Mangini. There is no way to state that the move was anything but a massive mistake.
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toad...only in the eyes of someone as biased against Holmgren as you.
Had Mangini won two more games down the stretch, I have little doubt he would have been retained as the HC, but with the agreement that he agree to a new OC who knew the WCO.
The basic question Holmgren asked...is it fair to a coach to fire him after one season?...
...ask that question to anyone with experience in coaching football and you are going to get a near 100% agreement, it is not fair.
So Holmgren gave Mangini another year.
Only in Toads world which aligns with the sports shock jocks and the over emotional, uneducated fans, do you hold it against Holmgren for giving Mangini a chance...you have to have a reason to blame someone...someone to hate...as everyone knows, for Toad, that someone is Holmgren.
BUT, from the standpoint of the franchise's goal, to rebuild the team's roster via the draft, having Mangini coach the team in 2010, did nothing to hamper the franchises goal of rebuilding the team via the draft.
DO NOT FORGET WHAT THE GOAL WAS...Mangini's goal was to win as many games as possible, but Heckert and Holmgren were focused on rebuilding the teams roster via the draft. Mangini lost his authority over the draft when Holmgren hired Heckert.
The goal of the franchise was to REBUILD the team.
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Shurmur was a guy I kinda liked when we got him. I've given him the benefit of the doubt because he's been surrounded with a sad amount of talent, and have defended many of his moves. However, I still see him making very dumb mistakes, and I'm beginning to wonder if he's got "it" to be a good head coach.
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toad...Shurmur was a rookie HC last season, in a year when there was no off season to teach the WCO to the players.
This season, Shurmur has a rookie QB, RB, 2 rookie WRs and a rookie RT...Shurmur is up to his ears in "teaching" rookies how to play in the WCO.
If you know "anything" about football...you would understand that Shurmur has one helluva job on his hands.
To the over emotional fans who don't know crap about football, they believe anyone can teach football and that it is easy for rookies to learn...
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Then there's the philosophy of building just through the draft. We needed major help in a major way, but have elected to do very little in terms of signing any impact free agents.
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toad..damn, at least you finally admit Holmgren and Heckert are committed to rebuilding the team via the draft...I'm making some headway here.
If your rebuilding via the draft, you don't go out and spend big on FA...not at first. As we near the end of the 5 yr plan, that changes as you assess what the team needs are.
The Browns just finished their 3rd draft with two more drafts to go and you don't sign free agents if you can get the guys you need in the draft. The closer the Browns get to the end of the rebuild, the better idea they have about which players are going to be capable doing the job.
This off season, I expect the Browns to go after defensive free agents, especially in the defensive backfield and maybe OGs and WRs...**provided the young guys we now have, do not live up to expectations.
Too soon to know exactly what our needs will be, but this team will begin to fill in the roster with good free agent signings...provided it does not blow the cap.
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Regardless of how any individual feels about RG3,.
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toad..as it was, what the Browns offered would have been extremely costly to the overall goal of rebuilding the Browns via the draft...and I must add, he would have cost us more than we offered and we might still not have been outbid by Dan Snyder.
There are limits and he is just one player...who does not like to get hit...and found out what happens when you run and don't slide...RG2/12 is still trying figure out how many fingers he has on one hand.
Again, the average, over emotional fan who thinks with his heart and not his brain is going to cry about RG...Holmgren didn't get RG and we would be winning right now if we only had RG and many more tear jerking claims.
...he was only one player...it still takes 10 more to make an offensive unit and the Browns needed a RB, WRs and RT...it made no sense to offer more for RG, knowing there were so many needs on offense.
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So to answer your "question" which is much more of an "indictment"........In year three of the Holmgren master-plan, the Cleveland Browns are the only winless team in the league.
There isn't a rebuilding plan in the history of the NFL where the person in charge says it's acceptable to be the only winless team in the league in the 3rd year of the plan. His stewardship has as many questions now as it did three years ago.
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toad..how many times do I have to tell you...IT IS A FREAKING 5 YR PLAN...not a 3 yr plan.
No team in the NFL can do a complete rebuild of their team's roster, via the draft, IN 3 YEARS...can't be done, not enough picks.
Hell, it's rare that "any" NFL team commits to rebuilding via the draft these days...why?...because at best, the franchise knows it is looking at 3 losing seasons. Most owners don't have the stomach to even attempt to rebuild their roster via the draft...that is why it is rarely even attempted.
But the Browns have already drafted their 3rd class and we only have two more seasons before the rebuild is done.
I look at this offense today and know they will be better next season, after learning the offense and playing in it for a season. I know this offensive unit will be even better after two seasons in this offense, under the same teacher....same goes for the defense...each year, the young players will improve as they learn and gain experience.
To build a successful NFL team, you have to teach your young players and give them experience playing.
Toad....you look at this offense through your over emotional, uneducated eyes and go...they suck...we didn't win today...they suck...I wish we had RGIII...lets blame someone...blame Holmgren...blame Shurmur.
It's obvious you and I are on different wave lengths when it comes to football. You just can't understand, it's not about winning X number of games this year...it's about teaching this young team, on both offense and defense, how to play in our system.
You must admit, the defense, which is about two years ahead of the offense, has played well enough to win many games, both last year and so far this year.
But you expect this young offensive team to play as if they are experienced veterans, which they are not.
Once the players have learned enough to carry out their assignments without having to think of everything they are doing...which only comes with repetition from practice and game experience....then the team will begin to win.
Toad, the more you type, the more you look like the uneducated fans and sports shock jocks who spend their days crying over the airwaves about the Browns not winning...and the Browns didn't get RG...always looking for someone to blame.
Most fans do not understand the rebuilding plan that was started in 2010...most fans are over-emotional people with not a clue about what the Browns are doing and just how rare and how difficult it is.
But when it is done, Holmgren and Heckert will have laid the foundation for "long term success" for this franchise...that is what this rebuild is about.
I invite anyone to go back and look what had become of the Browns roster by the time Holmgren was hired to try to fix the mess.
From Butch Davis to Crennel/Savage to Mangini...look what Holmgren (and Heckert) inherited in 2010...maybe then you can understand the need to rebuild the team's roster via the draft.
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....WOOF....GRRR....CHOMP....MAC
Edited by mac (10/10/12 06:41 AM)
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
...this toad quote..."If you hated Mike Holmgren you wouldn't be taking this path."
and...this toad quote ... "If you hated Holmgren and the rest you'd be singing a different tune."
No toad...I don't hate Mike Holmgren...and you sure appeared to be a supporter of Holmgren's until very recently...just what changed you?
On 7-14-2012, TOAD POSTED THIS...
"I'm not offering an opinion of how well these guys may or may not do, but I just wanted to note the amount of risk these guys have taken to try and go for the quick-fix. If they aren't right...and Richardson is the only guy considered to be a lock...we're facing a new President, a new GM, and a new coaching staff all over again. And that won't start until after the 2013 season."
...................................................................................................
Toad, obviviously you believed Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur should not only stay on through this season...but they should stay on for the 2013 season too.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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that's an awful lot of words just to say "Nuh Uh!!!!"
#gmstrong
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Quote:
that's an awful lot of words just to say "Nuh Uh!!!!"
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Quote:
that's an awful lot of words just to say "Nuh Uh!!!!"
That just made my day!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Quote:
that's an awful lot of words just to say "Nuh Uh!!!!"
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I do understand that there are LITTLE TOADS who like to hang around BIG TOAD, so they can come to his rescue when BIG TOAD is shown to be a fool, caught playing both sides of an issue.
That is nice trick you have their Toad, trying to position yourself on both sides of the fence on the issue of Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur...advocating that they be given enough time to see the rebuilding project through the 2013 season.
...JUST 2 MONTHS AGO the BIG TOAD ""supported"" Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur...not only through this 2012 season..BUT THROUGH THE 2013 SEASON.
UNFREAKING REAL...just 2 months ago the BIG TOAD was telling his 'little toads', Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur should continue on the job this season AND THROUGH 2013.
Here's what the BIG TOAD was telling his little toads..the quote...
" I'm not offering an opinion of how well these guys may or may not do, but I just wanted to note the amount of risk these guys have taken to try and go for the quick-fix. "
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You're just embarrassing yourself at this point.
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Quote:
I do understand that there are LITTLE TOADS who like to hang around BIG TOAD, so they can come to his rescue when BIG TOAD is shown to be a fool,
Just so I understand, if someone agrees with Toad and disagrees with you, they are a little toad? do I have that right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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In your case I think he meant turd...... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
In your case I think he meant turd......
Oh,, well that's better then.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
You're just embarrassing yourself at this point.
Hell, I'm embarrassed for him. It's like the little old guy walking down the sidewalk talking to imaginary birds, waving at them, then cackling to himself madly: You don't wanna look, you feel badly for him, but he just keeps going. 
The scary part isn't that he's said the exact same thing in two different threads, indicating a near-state of mania, or that his fellow Browns fans are encouraging him to stop, but that he's doing this to himself based on a non-truth.
*shrug*
All it takes is one Ref with a sense of pity to end this. Now might be a good time for that.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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