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The regular refs will be reffing tonights game.
Yes I know, but does anyone else think that they might be a little rusty, without the benefit of a preseason?
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I do enjoy a good debate. 
To accomplish that you would first need some topic worthy of debate. This sin't one of them.
The quick and firm actions on the part of the NFL to resolve this and the apology from Goodell is even further evidence that you seem to ignore.
Give it up dude. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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schefter re-tw33t3d someone last night saying "Ed Hochuli should come out of the tunnel doing the Ray Lewis dance tomorrow night." Heee-larious. 
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Look up the rules on possession of the football.
In order to have possession, you can't just have it in your hands. You have to have it in your hands, under control, and must make a football move with the football, or be downed by contact, or have possession throughout the act of the catch, with 2 feet in bounds, before being shoved out of bounds.
I believe that covers most situations.
Did either guy make a "football move" with the football and possession? Not that I saw. Did either guy have possession while being down by contact? Yep. One guy did, and that was the guy who hit the ground first. He had a percentage of possession, and was down by contact. He does not have to have "most" of the possession. He can have any part of possession, as long as he has possession. Can a player have possession with 1 hand? Sure he can. It happens all the time. So, if Tate and Jennings each had possession, even if one player had 2 hands on the ball, and the other had only 1 hand on the ball, it does not matter. Possession is possession. In the event of possession, the tie goes to the offensive player. A tie is not determined by who has "more" possession of the ball, but merely if 2 players have legal possession.
I think that people are getting all worked up over the fact that Jennings had 2 hands on the football. That doesn't matter. He was the defender. The only way he can win a simultaneous possession with an offensive player is if he has sole possession, and is either then down by contact, forced out of bounds within the rules, or makes a football move with possession.
As far as Jennings gaining possession "first", no, he didn't. He may have caught the ball while he was in the air, but possession does not occur until a player catches the ball, and then completes the catch. Jennings did not complete the catch with sole possession.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
The regular refs will be reffing tonights game.
Yes I know, but does anyone else think that they might be a little rusty, without the benefit of a preseason?
No, they have been working and doing film study since May.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I mainly posted that cause everyone was screaming about Tates right hand not being on the ball, when it clearly is in that view.
In that same video it's clear that Tate doesn't have his right hand on the ball until after he gets down on the ground... (or at best on the way down) after Jennings had both hands on the ball. yes they are both fighting for it after they are on the ground, but to me still obvious that Jennings had it first
<><
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Why are we still bickering about it? The NFL casebook clearly, unequivocally and in no uncertain terms whatsoever states that if a player controls the ball while he is in the air before his opponent does, it is not a simultaneous catch. It's quoted in an article earlier in this thread, and its there for all to see at www.nfl.com/rulebook.
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Quote:
Look up the rules on possession of the football.
In order to have possession, you can't just have it in your hands. You have to have it in your hands, under control, and must make a football move with the football, or be downed by contact, or have possession throughout the act of the catch, with 2 feet in bounds, before being shoved out of bounds.
I believe that covers most situations.
Did either guy make a "football move" with the football and possession? Not that I saw. Did either guy have possession while being down by contact? Yep. One guy did, and that was the guy who hit the ground first. He had a percentage of possession, and was down by contact. He does not have to have "most" of the possession. He can have any part of possession, as long as he has possession. Can a player have possession with 1 hand? Sure he can. It happens all the time. So, if Tate and Jennings each had possession, even if one player had 2 hands on the ball, and the other had only 1 hand on the ball, it does not matter. Possession is possession. In the event of possession, the tie goes to the offensive player. A tie is not determined by who has "more" possession of the ball, but merely if 2 players have legal possession.
I think that people are getting all worked up over the fact that Jennings had 2 hands on the football. That doesn't matter. He was the defender. The only way he can win a simultaneous possession with an offensive player is if he has sole possession, and is either then down by contact, forced out of bounds within the rules, or makes a football move with possession.
As far as Jennings gaining possession "first", no, he didn't. He may have caught the ball while he was in the air, but possession does not occur until a player catches the ball, and then completes the catch. Jennings did not complete the catch with sole possession.
Who said anything about sole possession?
Your grasping for straws.
Jennings caught the ball first even though that in itself does don't constitute a catch it's a part of it and in this case the key portion, because he never lost possession of the ball throughout continuation of the catch.
I know you think that you are always right, but the rules have been posted on this if you care to not look at them, then that's your prerogative. Other then that I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said.
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Why are we still bickering about it? The NFL casebook clearly, unequivocally and in no uncertain terms whatsoever states that if a player controls the ball while he is in the air before his opponent does, it is not a simultaneous catch. It's quoted in an article earlier in this thread, and its there for all to see at www.nfl.com/rulebook.
You are right! I have to change my stance!
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/26_2011_Official_CaseBook.pdf
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A.R. 8.29 NOT A SIMULTANEOUS CATCH
First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground.
Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on A40. Not a simultaneous catch as B3 gains control first and retains control.
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Hmm ... I must be wrong then too.
How 2 players could ever have simultaneous catch of the ball according to that is beyond me though. If the players literally have to catch it at the same time, and both maintain control of the ball all the way through the catch for it to be simultaneous possession is something that I cannot ever recall seeing. Usually there is one player who has his hands on the ball, while the other is getting his hands on the ball. I have never seen a true simultaneous catch, though I have seen it called a few times.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Reading through all of the rules, and the fact that the NFL Replay official (not a replacement Ref) and the Competition committee both upheld the ruling on the field, then they have to have ruled simultaneous possession in the air .... not that Jennings had sole possession, then Tate also gained possession.
Again, I don't believe that you have to have 2 hands on the ball to have established control and possession.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That a good point ytown. Simultaneous to what precision? Because it will never be truly simultaneous.
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Reading through all of the rules, and the fact that the NFL Replay official (not a replacement Ref) and the Competition committee both upheld the ruling on the field, then they have to have ruled simultaneous possession in the air .... not that Jennings had sole possession, then Tate also gained possession.
Again, I don't believe that you have to have 2 hands on the ball to have established control and possession.
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The only thing I can say is that to have control of the ball it cant be moving at all at any time in the air and when you are contacting the ground. If if does then you no longer have control and must re-establish control.
Thats why I think the replay official let it stand, you cant tell if the ball is moving when they hit the ground. I was trying to watch the laces of the ball when Jennings first got his hands on it and tate was about to also get his hands on it.
TBH I cant tell.
Ive maintained all along it was a tough call and I can see why they called it the way they did. Its also probably why as YTB said its rare they actually both grab the ball at the exact same nano second in the air yet we get sim catches. If the ball is moving you dont have control.
Im just going by all the replays they show in games looking to see if the ball is moving on the control part.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Really?? We aren't done beating this dead horse yet? In fact, I think we've exhumed the unfortunate beast just to beat it some more.  
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Really?? We aren't done beating this dead horse yet? In fact, I think we've exhumed the unfortunate beast just to beat it some more.
And the beat goes on
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Really?? We aren't done beating this dead horse yet? In fact, I think we've exhumed the unfortunate beast just to beat it some more.
And the beat goes on
Today the Horse has been placed back into its grave where it belongs.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Really?? We aren't done beating this dead horse yet? In fact, I think we've exhumed the unfortunate beast just to beat it some more.
And the beat goes on
Today the Horse has been placed back into its grave where it belongs.
::clapping hands:: 
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Really?? We aren't done beating this dead horse yet? In fact, I think we've exhumed the unfortunate beast just to beat it some more.
And the beat goes on
I think some of these guys are NFL employees. You know...... NEVER, at ANY cost admit when you're wrong!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I missed that horse... feels like I haven't seen him since Holcomb left
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'll let you in on a little secret....... Holcomb is under the horse!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'll let you in on a little secret.......
Holcomb is under the horse!
best line of the day.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I was hoping someone would break out that horse! Thanks Pit!
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Ref saga continues . . .
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