|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
I think the triple crown winner has to win it
Wrong.
Quote:
his team won more games
Wrong.
Quote:
That's usually the main criteria when determining mvp right?
No.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,368
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,368 |
Like it or not that's what the media usually looks at it, and it's their vote that matters.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,577
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,577 |
No he shouldn't have been.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
No he shouldn't have been.
Yeah, who cares if he was just as good a hitter, better fielder, better baserunner, played his home games in a worse hitter's park, in a tougher division, and his team had more wins.
Don't you know...TRIPLE CROWN!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
all I know on Trout is that I had the MLB.TV online package and I made sure to go back and watch nearly every one of his ABs (next day since they were late games usually). He was so friggin' good that I didn't want to miss anything.
it's been a long time since I felt the need to do that for a non-Indian player that wasn't going for a major milestone.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
I don't think there was a wong choice.
Triple Crown winner playing a new position that got his team to the playoffs (and eventually the WS).
vs.
A great, young 5-tool player that "nerdy" stats says had a better overall year for a team that missed the playoffs, but had a few more wins than the Tigers.
Flip a freaking coin...it's an award, not a championship. And anyway, I thought Verlander was robbed more for the AL Cy Young. But again, all deserving players.
And on top of that, it's late November, why does it take so long for these awards to come out. They're regular season awards, they should be out during the playoffs.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
we can all agree that Shelden Ocker (ABJ) is a complete buffoon for putting Beltre above Trout on his ballot though, right?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
MVP = Most VALUABLE Player
Stretch run, when the Tigers were trying catching the White Sox and the Angels trying to get back into the Wild Card.
August :
Trout : .284, .866 OPS, 7 HR, 19 RBI
Cabrera : .357, 1.092 OPS, 8 HR, 24 RBI
September :
Trout : .257, .836 OPS, 5 HR, 6 RBI
Cabrera : .308, 1.032 OPS, 10 HR, 27 RBI
Cabrera is the MVP, as he should be.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
that is the best argument for Miggy.
the counter is that each game does count the same in the standings and that plenty of statisticians have shown there is no such thing as "clutch" hitting.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
MVP = Most VALUABLE Player
Stretch run, when the Tigers were trying catching the White Sox and the Angels trying to get back into the Wild Card.
August :
Trout : .284, .866 OPS, 7 HR, 19 RBI
Cabrera : .357, 1.092 OPS, 8 HR, 24 RBI
September :
Trout : .257, .836 OPS, 5 HR, 6 RBI
Cabrera : .308, 1.032 OPS, 10 HR, 27 RBI
Great points!
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Isn't the award given for playing well the whole season?
Also, why give the batting average and OPS? Batting average is included in the OBP of OPS. Cherry picking stats.
Of course Cabrera had more home runs, that his job. Trout is a leadoff hitter.
No mention of Cabrera's crappy defense and baserunning and Trout's outstanding defense and baserunning.
Other than that, great argument.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802 |
He only stole 49 bases. Cabby wasn't that far off!
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Quote:
Isn't the award given for playing well the whole season?
Yes.
So why do you want to give it to a guy that didn't play for the first month, and was average in the last two months.
You're the one wanting to give it to a guy for a hot 3 months in the middle of the season.
Cabrera was consistent all year long.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
So why do you want to give it to a guy that didn't play for the first month,
He didn't play the first two months and was still more valuable than Cabrera. Crazy, right?
Quote:
and was average in the last two months.
7 HR, 11 SB, .366 OBP, great defense in August. 5 HR, 7 SB, .400 OBP, great defense in September. I want some of that average on my team.
Quote:
You're the one wanting to give it to a guy for a hot 3 months in the middle of the season.
When you're "hot" for three months straight you are not "hot." You are good.
Quote:
Cabrera was consistent all year long.
No one is saying Cabrera was bad, he just wasn't as good as Trout. Baseball is more than just home runs and batting average.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
He won the Triple Crown. He deserved and won the MVP. Simple, really.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,577
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,577 |
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
He won the Triple Crown. He deserved and won the MVP. Simple, really.
The Triple Crown accounts for three offensive statistics two of which are related. So if you are you at three things you should win the MVP? Makes no sense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Quote:
The Triple Crown accounts for three offensive statistics two of which are related. So if you are you at three things you should win the MVP? Makes no sense.
And WAR does make sense? It's a made up stat for use by stat geeks.
Trout had a good year.
Cabrera's was better. Again, I say (and the baseball writers agree with me) he won the Triple Crown and he won (and deserved) the MVP.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
And WAR does make sense?
When did I ever mention WAR?
I said Trout was just as good a hitter, a much better fielder, a much better baserunner, his team was better, and he played in a tougher division.
Quote:
Again, I say (and the baseball writers agree with me) he won the Triple Crown and he won (and deserved) the MVP.
It's not a good thing if you agree with the baseball writers. They evaluate players the same way they did in the 1980's even though they have tons more information.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133 |
It's an MVP award....most valuable player. The Tigers went to the world series, and without Cabrera's phenomenal contribution they wouldn't have. You can't get more valuable than that.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
It's an MVP award....most valuable player. The Tigers went to the world series, and without Cabrera's phenomenal contribution they wouldn't have. You can't get more valuable than that.
this is true though the Angels were in no-man's land before Trout and they ended up winning more games in a tougher division (with an unbalanced schedule) and the only reason they got left at home was because the Tigers were in the AL Central.
where would the Angels have been without Trout? he did everything for them.
for all the people who decry Hafner on here for not playing in the field, apparently all that matters is that you put a mitt on and not what you actually do after you trot onto the field.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Playoff contributions aren't factored into MVP voting.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,210
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,210 |
Quote:
this is true though the Angels were in no-man's land before Trout
They finished 4 games out of the wildcard this year. Last year they finished 5 games out of the wild card. They won the West 5 out of the 9 years before that, got the wild crad one additional year in which they won the WS.
If that's no-man's land, when will the Tribe get there?
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
this is true though the Angels were in no-man's land before Trout
They finished 4 games out of the wildcard this year. Last year they finished 5 games out of the wild card. They won the West 5 out of the 9 years before that, got the wild crad one additional year in which they won the WS.
If that's no-man's land, when will the Tribe get there?
what does last season have to do with anything? i was talking about their April before they called up Trout. he provided the initial spark and kept things going. he was ridiculous.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
It's useless arguing with these people. All they see is "TRIPLE CROWN! OH MY GOD! TRIPLE CROWN!"
As if all that matters is offense (which Mike Trout was just as good at).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,368
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,368 |
Quote:
It's useless arguing with these people. All they see is "TRIPLE CROWN! OH MY GOD! TRIPLE CROWN!"
As if all that matters is offense (which Mike Trout was just as good at).
To quote Punchsmack's sig and The Dude: "Yeah, well, you know, that's just like uhhh....your opinion man."
There is a thing called agreeing to disagree, some valid points have been made on both sides. No need to get worked up because you're not swaying "these people" to your side of the "argument".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
There is a thing called agreeing to disagree, some valid points have been made on both sides.
I have yet to hear a valid point for Cabrera winning over Trout.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,368
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,368 |
Top Dawg nailed it when he posted the August and September stretch run stats.
Last edited by Psydeffect; 11/20/12 09:02 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Right, you said valid points. Two month stretch of the season is not valid. (He also failed to mention that Cabrera was horrible with the glove and on the basepaths. And it's not like Trout wasn't hitting either.)
Try again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,577
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,577 |
Quote:
To quote Punchsmack's sig and The Dude: "Yeah, well, you know, that's just like uhhh....your opinion man."
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Are you Trout's agent or mother? 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Isn't the point of message boards to discuss things?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Why, yes, it is.
But you seem so adamant that it makes me wonder if you have a horse in this race.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
He won the Triple Crown. He deserved and won the MVP. Simple, really.
So if Josh Hamilton hits 2 more HRs.
Then Cabrera shouldn't win the MVP?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133 |
If doing that was instrumental in helping his team down the stretch to win the division....he would have received consideration.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
If doing that was instrumental in helping his team down the stretch to win the division....he would have received consideration.
I'm not talking about Hamilton.
I'm saying if Hamilton hits 2 more HRs. Then Cabrera doesn't win the Triple Crown..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111 |
Just to add a stupid fact:
Ted Williams twice won the triple crown and did not win the MVP that year. Winning the TC is not a pre-req for the other.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802 |
Cabrera was the most valuable hitter, but not player.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
so, ATL decided to swap out Michael Bourn for BJ Upton and all it cost them was $75mil over 5years
(no idea how much Bourn will cost but it should come in under that number)
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Bourn will probably be about the same as Upton and he's two years older.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum MLB Playoffs 2012
|
|
