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Hel that is a good post...

Rish, another reason that Brady and Manning are so good presnap is that theyve been doing it for years upon years.


Things that Weeden has done well this year are manipulate the single high safety. I havent seen a single deep ball that Weeden has throw this year go into a double covered guy...or even a single covered guy with a safety bearing down on him.

What he has done is throw the ball underneath in a place where if the WR misses it the safety over the top has a VERY good chance at the INT...in fact, I'd say 5 of his INTs have come that way (NYG, Both in Buffalo, the clincher v. Philly...).

Placement between the numbers is his biggest issue right now, and thats adjusting to the speed of the game, and the route running of his guys. In addition, the positioning of his defense. Weeders has to do a better job of throwing those balls to a place where either his guy gets it or no one gets it. He's thrown em all too high...Those have to be at the numbers at the HIGHEST, more around the belt.

He's done a great job improving.
- His footwork from week 1 preseason to today is unbelieveable. Like a new guy.
- The deep ball is big time better
- Reading Ds is improved. Hes been throwing at double coverage much less...though he makes bad throws with coverage over the top
- He's been better at hitting guys in stride (save for Gordon against the GMen...man that was prolly 6 or at least 1st and goal).


He'll get there...thats as close to a fact as you can get on the Browns. He's shown more than any QB and before anyone calls him DA. Stop that. He can throw it, and has improved every game this year. DA looked the same from day 1 to the last day he was here.

Weeders slings it, and thats a good thing. Give him a little time and he will become that guy.

I see him becoming like Phil Rivers when he finishes developing...minus the anger. or Cutler without the crazy and inconsistency.
I dont know how anyone could be down on him at this point. He has made costly mistakes...but those happen. Moreso, he doesnt have the reliable guy that the other guys have seemed to have had...

Rodgers had Jennings...and Driver
Luck has Wayne
RG3 has Moss
Peyton and Brady both had elite TEs when they were young (forget names)
Eli had Toomer and Hilliard
Rivers has Gates
Palmer had Chad and Houshamazilly (championshiiiiiip)

the rest of the guys that are young...Ponder/Harvin, Locker/Britt/Washington, Tannehill/Hartline, Freeman/Williams/VJax,

Weeden/??

Every QB needs someone reliable...Weeders is still lookin for his...that's tough. Bradford is in the same boat. no one to rely on makes for inconsistent and struggles...but weeders has shown a lot in the face of adversity

That's an important point about not having that "go-to" guy, we haven't had one for a long, long time, at least not consistently.

Other teams have plays they have confidence in to get one or two, or even 5 or 6, yards when they need them. We don't, at least not yet. IMO Norwood's performance last week, and what I saw last year, is a great sign of progress.

On a more general note, I see tremendous progress in both offense and defense. We had four rushing TD's all of last year, we already have five. Our number of big plays is way up, also YPA and rushing average. Most importantly, more points.

Pass protection is dramatically better, WR not so great but lots of talent that could develop. Old FA vets don't get any better, they just fade away, while taking some youngster's roster spot.

The D is still coming together and Joe's loss was a major problem. Sheldon needs to move to S or sit down. #2 corner is my most pressing need right now. More pass rush would help but it is already much better than last year.

Linebackers need to improve but we added not one, not two, but Three promising rooks who need PT to deveiop.

That really is the story of the whole team, lots of promising youngsters who need game time to improve. We are paying the price now for a LOT of improved play in the future. IMO by the end of this season a whole bunch of folks are going to be much, much happier.

Of course, some will be angry because we will win just enough games to miss the #1 pick.

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the rest of the guys that are young...Ponder/Harvin, Locker/Britt/Washington, Tannehill/Hartline, Freeman/Williams/VJax,

Weeden/??

Every QB needs someone reliable...Weeders is still lookin for his...that's tough.

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I agree with you in theory and this is going to sound a little nitpicky but ... Hartline? He has been a 40 catch, 550 yard guy for 3 years until this year... very MoMass like numbers in his career. Heck Little, for all of his warts, had 30 more catches and 200 more yards in his rookie season after sitting out a year than Hartline had in any of his first 3 seasons.

Tannehill is making Hartline far more than Hartline is making Tannehill.

j/c

Props to Heldawg, for bumping up the discourse a notch.. and to all those who responded to him. Good stuff, guys.

When I watch Weedz, I see someone who really IS learning on the job... and I do mean learning. For all those observations made after Hel's post, one thing holds true throughout: I see steady, incremental improvement in all the measurables save one: wins on the record book.

As for the comparison to Manning and Brady: valid observation. Pre-snap is where it's at. We saw a LOT of it with Eli in the most recent game, once he settled down. IMHO, only experience can give your QB that edge... and a rook simply cannot be that experienced after 36 quarters of pro football under his belt.

I'm outlining that issue to set up the real point of my post: if Weedz is as astue a student of the mental aspect of his game as he's been in the mechanical aspects, I've no doubt that this skill too will come along. As I see it, that ability of Brady and the Mannings is one of the last skills to develop. Time spent in the film room [during offseason] is where this skill will begin to develop (if indeed it ever will develop)... and that most likely can't happen during the course of kid's first season on the field.

And believe it or not- that's actually OK with me. Let him take his lumps, work on the things he CAN improve during his first season, then backfill the knowledge with an entire season of film to study. Chances are good that his "QB IQ" will take leaps ove next Summer... AND he'll have an entire season of real-world experience on the field to draw upon.

(He need to have Professor Kosar in the film room, pointing out what he needs to see.... if there's anyone who can break down D sets, it's Bernie-)

Im looking at those guys at the end that havent been as good, and those are reasons...those are their best guys. Those guys are nothing special and interestingly enough none of the QBs have been special. Now Harvin has made Ponder's life easier so thats one thats budding, but still Ponder has been very pedestrian so far in his career.

...was where I was going with that end list.

And that's frustrating to all of us, I think.

Game 1, the defense does almost everything it could to get the win,and the offense lets us down. We lose 17-16 ...... and for all of the problems on offense, if Fort makes the INT of a pass, in his hands in the end zone, at the end of the game ,,,, we win. That being said though, the offense really did nothing in this game.

Game 2, the offense puts up 27, yet we still lose by 7.

Game 3 was a "bleh" game. We threw for 237 yards, ran for 33, did nothing to stop the Bills on defense. They could have scored another 2 TDs if they hadn't called off the dogs, because we did nothing to stop their passing game, and we allowed their 3rd string RB to run wild on us.

Game 4 was on in which the Browns played a division foe very close. They fought to the end. Weeden went 25/52 with probably 7 drops. The defense played their asses off. However, we did not run the ball at all in this game. We ran for a net 44 yards. We had a shot at the end though ..... and that's what you hope for is you are behind.

Game 5 was inconsistent city. We started out like gangbusters. i was sure that we were on track for our first win. That feeling didn't last long. Manning seemed to hit everything. Weeden played OK except for a couple of huge mistakes. Those mistakes were killers though. We had one of the worst 4 minutes of football I have ever seen with an INT, a fumble, and idiotic clock management, all mixed in with defensive abdication and penalties/mental mistakes that allowed the Giants 17 points in a 4 minute spread. Ugh. The Giants scored 41 on us, and by game's end it seemed like it could easily have been 50+. Every unit has major breakdowns in this game. The defense had a total collapse. Weeden made some really horrible decisions. Richardson only got 17 carries. 3rd down play designs were really bizarre. Bleh+Puke in this game. We scored 27 ..... but it never felt like we were in the game after Weeden threw that INT in the end zone, and then the defense folded completely.

I have no clue what to expect in the next game. It seems like games where the defense shows up, the offense takes the day off .... and visa versa. Special teams break down at the wrong moment. Penalties gives the opposing offense inopportune 1st downs. How many times have we seen that one this year? It seems like 10 times in just 5 games where the defense jumps, holds, or interferes for a 1st down?

Bleh.

We need to get the basics back together.

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I have no clue what to expect in the next game. It seems like games where the defense shows up, the offense takes the day off .... and visa versa. Special teams break down at the wrong moment. Penalties gives the opposing offense inopportune 1st downs. How many times have we seen that one this year? It seems like 10 times in just 5 games where the defense jumps, holds, or interferes for a 1st down?

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That's where I am in our progress and I think thats why it's so frustrating. I see the defense play well in stretches and think, "If we could just play like that consistently"... then I see the offense look good in stretches and I think, "If we could just play like that consistently"... then I see the special teams make plays and... well, you know.

But there are always just enough mistakes and let downs, some understandable, some not so much.. to keep us from putting it together. I know we are young, I know some mistakes are to be expected... I'm just tired of losing...

I have this vision of us putting it all together and being in a position to win and having Captain Consistency, Phil Dawson, miss a 30 yarder...

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I have this vision of us putting it all together and being in a position to win and having Captain Consistency, Phil Dawson, miss a 30 yarder...

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yup.

We probably won't win until after that scenario plays itself out....

it could get blocked...

On my list of things to do when I have more time ... I would be doing this thread an injustice if I replied in hast.

Until then ... Go Browns!

Progress? This team showing progress?! How dare you, Clem, insinuate our loyal football team to be a bunch of evil liberal progressives...oh wait, I'm in pure football. Too much time spent over in Everything Else

I feel like we've progressed but also regressed in some areas.

The Offense

The offense has come a long way from the awwwfense of the pre-season. Trent and the Oline are starting to develop chemistry. Notice, Trent's efficency has helped Weeds out a bit. Has the running game prevented Weeds from throwing boneheaded, albiet rookie mistakes, throws? No. But, Trent's effectiveness running and catch balls off a check down have really opened up the field. Weeds can pull a McCoy but get a 1st down in the process instead of 4th and 9.

As for Weeds himself, he's getting better. His deep ball, at least based off of the Giants game, is becoming a beautiful pass. He just needs to continue to grow his pocket awareness, decision making, and develop all his targets.

Our receivers, if MoMass can stay healthy, have been wonderful. Well, wonderful if you are anyone not named Greg Little. Gordon started to come around last game. I really like what Travis Benjamin brings to the table, too. We can have our own Fitzgerald and Boldin with Gordon and Benjamin if they develop the right way. MoMass has been the same good WR but he continues to find ways to get hurt. Cribbs belongs on special teams but the occasional gadget with him continues to work.

Now for Mr. Little...I really want to like the kid. I think he's starting to regress with all the posing, dancing, and continued dropped passes. Maybe he can get his act together as the season wanes on. Gordon's performance against The Giants should have lit a fire under his posterior.

Our TEs are now a giant question mark with Watson showing his age. Cameron is encouraging but I hope he doesn't turn into the next Evan Moore. Alex Smith was starting to have a decent season until he got hurt, too.

Now for the offensive line. This is a unit I rarely key in on. JT seems to be battling through something. Overall, they lack consistency from week to week. I hope they become more consistent.

The Defense
The Dline showed promise the first game but the holes in swiss cheese look better than they do against the run. Sheard, despite not having many sacks, is still a disruptive force. He's continually pushing his man back into the pocket. Mourg and I agreed he's been held on every single play but there hasn't been any flags. I'm glad we still have Rubin but we miss Taylor. Hopefully the young guys develop. I just wonder if they'll ever be able to stop the run?

The LBs? Same story as the Dline. I like the rooks but I want to see them start to stop the run. D'qwell is having a monster season as well. I'm still sour about our horrible run unit, though.

The secondary, or should I say everyone except Joe Haden, needs major work. TJ "I Whiff More Than Russel Branyan" Ward seems to have hit his ceiling. He's average, on a good day, at covering a receiver and he doesn't make the tackle when you need him the most. Sheldon should be moved to FS and we should cut the other dolts who are the FSes.

[John Madden] In order for the Browns to win games this season, the offense is going to have to score more touchdowns than the defense allows.[/John Madden]