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Legend
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You mean I'm not the only one getting 50 phone calls a day and enough junk mail to fill a overstuffed lawn and leaf bag every week 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Obama wanted to save the union pensions and contracts,
So he wanted to save hundreds of thousands of Americans from losing the retirement plans that they had paid into for many years? Oh how could he?
KING
He didn't save them, he just made it so their kids and their grandkids and their great grandkids can fund their retirement paying interest on all of the money he's borrowed.
And he doesn't seem to be too concerned about MY retirement at all.. considering the inflation that is inevitably coming my retirement account won't be worth what I thought it would be... then there will be the pay increases that I don't get because my company is going to have to deal with the expense of his monstrosity of a healthcare bill and all of the other regulations he has dumped on small to midsize businesses... then the company I work for will have its taxes raised, I may very well have my own taxes raised...
Yea, he's a great guy... 
yebat' Putin
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So he wanted to save hundreds of thousands of Americans from losing the retirement plans that they had paid into for many years? Oh how could he?
He doesn't seem all to concerned about anyone else retirement outside of his UAW buddies.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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So he wanted to save hundreds of thousands of Americans from losing the retirement plans that they had paid into for many years? Oh how could he?
He doesn't seem all to concerned about anyone else retirement outside of his UAW buddies.
No, be fair... he's concerned about the Union guys at Boeing too, which is why his administration fought to keep them from building and opening a facility in South Carolina... Even though he's President of the WHOLE United States, it's more important that union guys in the northwest have jobs than it is for non-union guys in south carolina to have jobs and for Boeing to potentially make more money.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
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Obama wanted to save the union pensions and contracts,
So he wanted to save hundreds of thousands of Americans from losing the retirement plans that they had paid into for many years? Oh how could he?
KING
These Americans who work(ed) for GM/Delphi feel quite differently about the "saved" pensions.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/...rees-wrong-way/
Too many people do not understand that Bush wrote the first auto bailout checks (not Obama) and that GM DID go bankrupt at the hand of Obama's administration.
The second biggest outright lying campaign ad is the Obama spots slamming Romney for saying he'd let GM go through bankruptcy...people are too clueless to realize that OBAMA TOOK GM THROUGH BANKRUPTCY! Yet O's ads paint Romney as a bad guy for saying he would do exactly what O actually did.
As a matter of fact, the bankruptcy ignored decades old bankruptcy laws - in typical unprecedented-Obama fashion - to pander to the unions.
All while blowing $50 billion dollars of taxpayer money. Campaign financing at its finest.
The biggest outright lie in a campaign ad? The Obama ad claiming that Romney is going to give tax cuts to millionaires and pay for that with tax increases on the middle class. There is nothing in any Romney plan to even remotely suggest such an action.
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If you think that Romney has anything even remotely approaching a monopoly on distprsions, or even outright lies, well, then you haven't been paying attention.
Obama lied his ass off at the final debate. Romney challenged him on some, and let some slide for some reason. Obama has lied about what happened following the terrorist attack in Benghazi.
Both do it, and neither has a monopoly.
But Romney has done something that I don't ever remember seeing a candidate do. After his as has been running and been given the 4 Pinocchio's for an outright lie and after both the management at the highest levels of Chrysler and GM and the heads of the unions and even yesterday when the highest level of management of Chrysler personally called the Romney campaign and told them to stop running the ad, what do they do. They keep running the ads and ALSO start running a brand new radio spot with the same bs lies. Politics is really dirty but even this is low and it will probably cost Ohio and it should.
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However, what he said in his ad is true. He has not said anything that is untrue. His statement on the stump may not have been correct, but what he said on the stump is not what his ads say. The head of Fiat has said that they are going to to reopen production of Jeeps in China, and are going to also produce Jeeps in Italy for sale in the US. While they haven't said that they will cut US production, if they are going to produce Jeeps in Italy for sale in the US ....... then they have to either plan on selling more units ..... or they are going to cut production elsewhere. There are a lot of people playing fast and loose with facts. The Obama campaign, in my absolutely favorite political move of all time, says with disdain that Romney wanted to force GM into bankruptcy. Obama did, in fact, bankrupt GM. He still continued to talk about how Romney wanted to make GM go bankrupt.  Obama completely misstated Romney's position outlined in the op-ed piece that was titled by "Let Detroit go bankrupt" by the newspaper.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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"Our unemployment rate, since the auto rescue took hold, has dropped three and-a-half points. It's not enough. We still have too many people unemployed in Niles, Girard, Austintown and Youngstown, but we're moving in the right direction."
Only because of how many people have left the Valley. Fracking has added jobs to the area but that is about it. I'm not positive but I believe Lordstown is employing less people than in years past. I remember them running 3 full shifts.
The fact is the Democrats have always taken the Valley for granted since they win by so many points here. They attacked Ungaro for his attempt to gain state money by working with Republicans like DeWine and Voinovich. The Republicans have no real interest in us because we are a lost cause. Until we make some real noise we will lose out to other parts of the state.
P,
CNN did a story today from Youngstown about Ytowns manufacturing rebound from the rust belt. Cramer and Phil Lebeau from CNBC have been here in the last couple of months toting energy, manufacturing and the auto rebound. We have come back from 2008/2009 about as good as any other part of the country. And it really isn't going to get going in our area until mid 2014.
As for fracking, it is a game changer. But there as of right now very little in the way of pipeline and midstream facilities. But they are coming, and quick. And there is way more than some jobs from fracking so far. Many that signed lately get for a up front signing bonus 3k an acre, just for signing. There are lots of farmers in western Pa./eastern Ohio that have to find a tax pro to help them with their new found glory.
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Didn't you say you were going to admit when you were wrong? 
It's tough to admit anything when you can't get on the site.
You got me on the "in person" thing. Kudo's to you for that.
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What people seem to miss is this.....
If we let 850k union jobs go, there are 850k less people who can afford their homes, who can afford to buy new care and that many less who can help fuel a recovering economy.
But yeah, let's do it Romney's way. Let them go bankrupt and do away with the unions. Let's cripple the middle class even harder.
And the funny thing is? Most of the people doing the complaining make WAY more than an auto worker and have a lot more retirement too.
When is enough, enough? I guess because auto workers aren't college grads, they don't deserve to make a fair wage. At leaat that seems to be the popular versiuon of things around here.
Maybe we it should have just been left to go to hell. Then those complaining now really would have something to complain about. A depression.....
If the banks had failed, the auto industry had gone under and the unions destroyed, we would be in a deep depression right now.
The only people who gain from that are the "Romney types".
People seem very naive to refuse to admit this. We only had one shot of avoiding a depression and Obama took that shot.
Good, bad or indifferent, that's how it is.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Just clicking
Hasn't it been proven that Jeep isn't moving production from the US to China?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The only people who gain from that are the "Romney types".
People seem very naive to refuse to admit this. We only had one shot of avoiding a depression and Obama took that shot.
Good, bad or indifferent, that's how it is.......
We didn't avoid it, we refinanced, took out more equity than we had and we successfully postponed it. Essentially we did as a nation what so many of the homeowners did to get us into a housing crisis... We are now $15 trillion in debt, still have unemployment close to 9%, have a bunch more debt coming from this healthcare debacle, have a congress and President who won't cut anything significantly, and have serious inflation looming on the horizon... but a little tax on the rich is going to fix it all... yea us.
Eventually, when my kids or my grandkids have to deal with the total collapse of the United States economy, Obama's quick fix will be one in a long line of things that lead to it... the republicans probably weren't going to fix it any better... but Obama didn't fix anything, he just kicked the can down the road for somebody else to deal with later...
yebat' Putin
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Bingo, you hit the nail right on the head
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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except that if GM went through a structured bankruptcy and another company bought them, it doesn't mean they are firing everyone on the spot. if they just go through bankruptcy and come out on the other side, then they are not firing everyone.
also, it is possible that more jobs could have been saved. Saturn was one of their assets that was desired but GM refused the Penske bid. if they were in a structured bankruptcy at the time, there is a good chance they would have accepted that bid. those folks working on Saturn products and dealerships would still have jobs today.
#gmstrong
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except that if GM went through a structured bankruptcy and another company bought them, it doesn't mean they are firing everyone on the spot. if they just go through bankruptcy and come out on the other side, then they are not firing everyone.
also, it is possible that more jobs could have been saved. Saturn was one of their assets that was desired but GM refused the Penske bid. if they were in a structured bankruptcy at the time, there is a good chance they would have accepted that bid. those folks working on Saturn products and dealerships would still have jobs today.
But those weren't union jobs ...... so they don't matter.
Just like the GM bankruptcy saved union pensions, but left Delphi salaried retirees twisting in the wind for the rest of their lives.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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And something that makes me chuckle that goes over many of my anti-union shop co-workers' heads is how- whether or not you like unions and what may take place in them or stand for- they help keep OUR wages competitive so we don't feel too under-appreciated and unionize. So it really does go beyond simply what takes place at the union plant. Otherwise there certainly are ownership types who would absolutely LOVE to pay these physical labors the bare minimum.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Legend
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except that if GM went through a structured bankruptcy and another company bought them, it doesn't mean they are firing everyone on the spot. if they just go through bankruptcy and come out on the other side, then they are not firing everyone.
also, it is possible that more jobs could have been saved. Saturn was one of their assets that was desired but GM refused the Penske bid. if they were in a structured bankruptcy at the time, there is a good chance they would have accepted that bid. those folks working on Saturn products and dealerships would still have jobs today.
Are you aware that the Saturn plant in Tennessee is up and running at full capacity or close to it making the Chevy Equinox? My guess is that many of the folks that moved down there for jobs with Saturn are not working on the Equinox... But that's just a guess
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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most Saturn dealerships were closed (some were partnered with Chevy/Buick, etc. and still survived).
most Saturn manufacturer facilities were closed (the Saturn Vue was the same body train as the Equinox, so if they need another plant and just shifted focus of that TN plant, then good for them).
#gmstrong
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Legend
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And something that makes me chuckle that goes over many of my anti-union shop co-workers' heads is how- whether or not you like unions and what may take place in them or stand for- they help keep OUR wages competitive so we don't feel too under-appreciated and unionize. So it really does go beyond simply what takes place at the union plant. Otherwise there certainly are ownership types who would absolutely LOVE to pay these physical labors the bare minimum.
This is exactly correct. Which is exacty why Saturn employees, even though they were non-union, made 15+ dollars an hour and benifits. Of course if you have a family of four, you make ends meet okay, but it won't leave much to help "boost the economy".
See, that's one thing nobody wishes to address. Here in Ohio, we had issue 2 in 2010. It was an issue to take away collective bargaining rights from our police, firefighters, teachers and nurses in Ohio.
You know, those people who are actually there in emergencies? Those same first responders that the Bush administration called "hero's" during 9/11? Well Romney stood right beside our govornor here in Ohio to try to take the right to collective bargaining away from many people who risk their life every day for your safety.
The measure was overwhelmingly defeated by a vote of 63%. How is that being "for the middle class"?
If you took the police, firefighters, teachers, nurses and all of the auto workers rights away across this nation to have fair wages, how could we EVER recover from any recession?
That would be millions and millions of American workers with no right to bargain for their wages. How many millions of homes wouldn't be sold? How about new cars and all of the money it takes to flow in order to get the economy moving again?
I've never worked for a union. But it's those union wages that forced my employers to pay me well. It's because of the unions I had paid holidays, paid vacations, health insurance and recieved nice abbual bonuses.
NOT because of the "goodwill" of big business. People are too soon to forget history. How workers were treated, paid and how many hours one household had to work in order to survive in this country.
Why and how unions came about in the first place. They came about because they HAD TO! Children working 12-14 hours a day in sweat shops. The exact same type of conditions that exist in china today. Free trade is a joke.
There is no way we can compete with sweat shop wages and the abuses that exist upon chinese workers today. Free trade means nothing more than pure greed. Corperate America could give a damn if you live or die as long as their profit margins grow,
And that's the attidtude that caused unions in the first place....
BTW- DC, Obama recieved a gift on 12 trillion worth of debt. So don't act like he caused this. You'll quickly use internet stocks bottoming out to excuse Bush.....
Yet the housing crisis, the banking crisis and the auto industry won't equal one forth of all of that debt?
If you wish to look at the bulk of our problem? Look straight at the party you support in this election.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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JC.
Only 12% of American workers belong to a union.
Unions definitely have their purpose, and there are many unions that still operate on that premise. Most people when they think of unions think of the UAW which has taken on a different purpose over the years than the initial intent to protect the workers.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Jeep looks to shift production to
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