DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Banner says wins, losses won't decide who stays and goes

yes, it's said that new management likes to put a new QB in place, but it's also true that new management is usually put in place because the current QB didn't do his job.

Colts didn't replace Peyton after Dungy
Tomlin didn't replace Big Ben

heck, Fisher just chose StL w/ Bradford over Miami w/ Tannehill/Weeden

I'm not saying they won't make a change. I'm saying they won't make a change just because "It's not my guy"

Unfortunately, when you look at the vast majority of the "talent" we've jettisoned over the years, not much of it found jobs with other teams. That is kind of emblematic of the biggest challenge we've faced since we came back: front offices that had little or no clue how to build a consistently competitive team. We're still suffering the long-term effects of way too many misses with high draft picks and a lack of proper systems to develop players.

Hopefully, the vicious cycle of continued failure will end with new ownership.

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Those who believe Banner was picked by Haslam to run the Browns "after Haslam did his due diligence"...that is simply not the truth.

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Who said that, exactly? I don't recall one person saying that. I thought it was obvious Banner was Haslam's guy all along.

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All this talk from Haslam about doing his due diligence in selecting a Pres/CEO...SPIN

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Not that he could have done his due diligence before he bought the team. Nah, couldn't happen.

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So now we have a rookie owner in Jimmy Haslam and a very good "bean counter" who has never been in charge of the football side of a franchise, in Joe Banner.

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If you were to actually take the time to read Banner's quotes it looks like he's putting in the same system he had when he hired Andy Reid.

I'm more afraid of the rookie owner making football decisions on draft day than I am of Banner.

I'm also not the least bit concerned about former Eagles players griping who didn't get contract extensions when they were nearing the end of their days. It's been a long-established fact that the Eagles were an outstanding franchise because they didn't over-pay aging veteran players. That philosophy is never popular with players OR fans, but the NFL isn't a popularity contest.

Here's what people need to really evaluate if they are going to examine Banner and Reid with fair and non-biased eyes: What's going on in Philly after Reid won his battle to take all the power for himself? This started last year when Banner was losing, and it's continued this year with Reid having the whole enchilada.

So where are the Eagles right now? Reid got what he wanted...and the Eagles are about to miss the playoffs again, and he's going to get fired.

Maybe Banner had it right all along.

If we're going to take Banner at his word in that interview, he was the guy that put the organization together, an organization that had been one of the tops in the NFL for the last decade. He'd be insane to lie like that in a national interview.

I'm willing to see how this plays out because his resume is top-notch.

It's not Banner that concerns me. It's Haslam, who wouldn't have brought Banner in if he didn't 100% push the the structure of things. I don't particularly like allowing the coach to spearhead the personnel moves, but I'll take a wait-and-see on that.

However, at least Haslam is not Randy Lerner. For that I'm grateful.

j/c... I actually liked Banner's comments. Especially the thing about not just hiring your buddies and not just brainging all your assistants with you, but wanting the best candidate everywhere.

I was supporting your support

when you think about it, haslam has said he's wanted to be a team owner (that is full owner) for a long time. So I actually have little doubt that he's had plenty of time to do what he needed to do to find the exec he wanted.

Given that he's spent the last several years as the minority owner of the Steelers, I would suspect he's had plenty of time to have met other owners, GM's, CEO's and Coaches...

So he's really not coming into this thing totally unprepared.

My personal feelings are that I'm just not sure, based on what Banner is saying, that he's the right guy. He does not inspire confidence.

That being said, there isn't a darn thing we can do about it., just gotta see how it goes and hope Haslam is as smart as people say he is.

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Q: Who will have final say on the 53-man roster?

A: We'll determine that officially when we see who's in those roles. My bias is for the coach to make those decisions. Now, we may end up with somebody in personnel who's so good that I tweak that, but going in, my bias is that the coach will have the most say on the 53-man roster and the 45 who dress for games.

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So Heckert's gone for sure...never ever let a HC make decisions on the future of a franchise and the last 5-6 spots on a roster are just that...he will always opt for the short term vet over potential....see Mangini, Eric

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I read this as saying that the coach would decide who plays on gameday. I'm probably wrong though, the more that I look at it.

He also says that there is a possibility for change in his philosophy.

One thing I know for sure: Haslam and Banner are totally enamored with Trent Richardson. There has hardly been an interview when there isn't a mention or a reference to Trent.

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if anything it can be said that he was part of the reason 2010 was a mess

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I'll take a messy 10-6 season any day. I think you are speaking of the 2011 season.

Sounds like he has already made his decision on Heckert saying he wanted his coach to have control over the roster and he knew that is why Heckert left Phily. So long Tom, I thought you did a wonderful job in rebuilding a talentless roster.

O well, I am pretty much done with football anyway.

Well, the biggest reason for Philly's mess is Michael Vick, and that's all on Andy Reid.

Pretty much the way I feel....I'll give whoever is here a shot in the draft and offseason and probably watch less and less from there as I won't hold my breath on the decisions/picks with J&J being 50% of the draft room and "everybody" reporting to them....can't wait for those crappy late rounders from Banner based on some tape the scouts gave him without having it compared to 300 other late round candidates or the gut feeling picks from Haslam on top 100 picks...after all, as Banner said, sometimes the best decisions are made from guys who don't know football, lol (YES, he pretty much said that, read it !)

The worst part of this mess though is the timing...the freaking moron that is Lerner screwed us one more time with the timing of the sell...couldn't he have done it AFTER the season?

Screw you moron, I'm so angry at him for this alone....I love watching this young team but even that has become boring because we already know the ending and every development whatsoever will be for naught

This is really unreal...we're about to fire the best GM we've had since the rebirth and a well above league AVG one at that....insane

Sometimes I think this team is run by idiots and we don't deserve a winner because of repeated stupidity at the top of the org....looks like it will continue. Rat face CEO and Hee Haw owner have a new toy and we're their dancing bears

A: We'll determine that officially when we see who's in those roles. My bias is for the coach to make those decisions. Now, we may end up with somebody in personnel who's so good that I tweak that, but going in, my bias is that the coach will have the most say on the 53-man roster and the 45 who dress for games.

TH could be out..or maybe he accepts a lesser role ..NOT!
Banner wants to bring in someone who is really behind the scenes and the HC really is running the show.
Now reading what Banner said about BW is correct.U have to keep the door open and look at it when they are ready to make a run (not a 5 year plan huh??!)is he going to be the guy?

And I'm sure when they look at the college QB's they're going to ask that same question..are they championship caliber QB's?

Sorta reminds me when the movie fast and furious came out....every teen with a honda put rims, body kits, decals, spoilers, window tint and thought they was the next Vin Diesel. Hardly any did any motor work.

Lets be honest we dont know if these QBs where pushed on him or not, I am sure he will have a chance to plead his case at the end of the season. I would like to keep him if possible. I do believe he has a good game plan and has stuck with what he wants to build. Its just unfortunate that we are bailing out half way through the rebuild. And that Un-Shurmer was hand picked by Holmgren, he is clearly in over his head.

I think based on talent alone Heckert has done enoguh to prove he wasnt part of the problem, hope The Penguin can see it that way.

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Too easy to say the Eagles suck since Banner's gone and he was the good apple and Reid the bad one...the demise already started when he was there. Of course Toad never directly said so

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This whole argument is borderline insane. Reid has been with the Eagles for what, 13 full seasons? 11 of them at .500 or better, 8 of them double digit wins... Andy Reid deserves considerable praise for that as do the people who helped him build (and rebuild) the roster.... the fact that he's had a down year or two is not an indictment that anybody is a grand failure or the one person is more responsible than another...

If Tom Brady retired at the end of the season and the Patriots had a couple 5 win seasons is that proof that Belichick is overrated or proof that the Patriots front office is horrible? No, it's proof that these things go in cycles and that NOBODY sustains double digit win seasons every year.... sometimes you take a step back to move forward... unless you are the Browns, you take a step back, move laterally, then take another step back.. cha cha cha...

If, and that is still a big if, Heckert goes they will be doing the franchise a huge disservice. He is light years ahead of where anyone coming in will be, and needs only about a handful of players to round out the starting roster to make the team truly competitive for the first time in almost two decades. And if he gets canned, it'll be largely because Shurmur boned him by not winning the winnable games, and by extension, Holmgren for hiring the useless tool to begin with.

Tom Heckert (IMO) can get a GM job easily after this season.

We may be 2-7, But I think generaly the NFL can see what he's done here as it relates to aquiring talent.

The question is not weather or not Banner and Haslam want to keep him, it's, if you are Tom Heckert, do you WANT to be here going forward?

He left Philly to get what he has now, and now it's gone, WHY stay?

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From what I hear Shurmur is toast ( I know I know you don't believe people who post crap on the board lol

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Let's just say I cast a wary eye on any post that tells me the person has inside info. Not saying you don't have some inside scoop. Just saying I always take it with a grain of salt.

The reason I think Heckert is gone (for all intents and purposes) is that the reason he came here was to have some significant (if not total) control of the roster. With Joe (I'm smarter than you, just ask me) Banner in charge only JB will have roster control. They'll come to an "agreement" and Heckert will leave. Banner will then hire some young guy he can control or he'll assume GM duties himself (the latter would be my best guess as to what will happen).

Banner will then hire a young "up and coming" (read that as controllable) Head Coach. Now this part may work if he gets the right guy but I'm not holding my breath.

I hope I'm totally wrong about this. But I don't think I am. And if this does happen this way I'm afraid the Browns will have seen the last of my ticket money.

Winning will cure a lot of ills. I just have my doubts if this path will lead to any significant winning. Time will tell. But I don't have as much time as I used to....

I think your right but I hope your wrong.

Weird, he specifically said he wants the coach to be in charge of the 53.

Browns CEO Joe Banner discusses his vision for franchise and stadium

By NATE ULRICH
Akron Beacon Journal

BEREA, Ohio -- New Cleveland Browns CEO Joe Banner concedes changes are inevitable as he and owner Jimmy Haslam seek ways to put their stamp on the organization.

But Banner is still in the phase of figuring out what needs to be altered and how drastic those modifications will be.

"There is a huge challenge here," Banner said. "I consider that kind of good news because that's what I thrive on."

With the Browns in the midst of their bye week, Banner addressed several issues facing the franchise Thursday in an hourlong interview with the Akron Beacon Journal. Potential changes were at the forefront of the discussion.

Coach and general manager

Banner said he and Haslam are standing by their plan to wait until the end of this season to decide the fate of coach Pat Shurmur and General Manager Tom Heckert. There's a widespread belief that Shurmur and Heckert will be gone at the end of this season.

"I'm aware of the perception, and it's not fair," said Banner, who began working at the Browns' headquarters on Oct. 31, six days later than originally planned because of the death of his father. "We're going to make an objective evaluation. The outcome is not predetermined. I'm aware that the perception is out there. I can't tell you that's not a possible outcome. But anybody thinking that that's a predetermined outcome is on the wrong track."

Earlier this week, Shurmur expressed hope that the new regime would look at the big picture instead of focusing solely on wins and losses.

"You want to build a team that's a consistent winner, and sometimes building is painful," Shurmur said. "Trust me on that. It just is. Now how everybody looks at it and how we paint that into the picture of the hard numbers, that's for somebody else to decide."

The Browns have a record of 2-7 and won't play again until they visit the Dallas Cowboys (3-5) on Nov. 18. Still, Banner indicated the team's record at the end of this season wouldn't be the only factor in determining the futures of the coaching staff and front office.

"We're not stuck on exactly how many games we win between now and then," said Banner, who spent 19 years with the Philadelphia Eagles, including 12 as their president. "We're wanting to see the qualities and the decision making at any level of the organization that we think says that person or that group two years from now, as we implement our systems, our culture, can function at a championship-caliber level."

When evaluating coaches, Banner asks himself, "How do they lead? How do they think? How do they strategize? What kinds of players do they like? Do players grow under them? What's the quality of their staff?"

Banner said general managers must excel at player evaluation, possess many of the same qualities he seeks in coaches and stick to their philosophies.

"Sometimes they get accused of being stubborn," Banner said. "But I actually welcome people that have thought it through and have strong convictions about what they do."

During his tenure with the Eagles, Banner worked with Shurmur and Heckert for 10 and nine years, respectively. He said they're not a package deal, meaning one could be retained and the other let go.

Heckert left the Eagles to join the Browns in 2010 because he wanted final say on roster decisions. Banner admitted he was fine with the move but rejected the notion that he did not have a good relationship with Heckert.

"There was nothing negative in either my or Tom's departure from the Eagles," Banner said. "It was more a reflection of our desires and the organization being well structured and having a lot of levels of quality people that left it OK for that kind of move. So in that sense, I was OK with it because it was what Tom wanted and we were in good shape in terms of replacing him. But I've always had a very good relationship with Tom, and we like each other. That hasn't been different and isn't different here."

Banner, 59, said he believes the Browns have made good moves and are on the right track.

"I've seen people take over a franchise in which you looked at the roster and you're like, 'Oh, my God. There's nothing here to build on,"' Banner said. "This is not the case here. Exactly how many of those players we can build on, exactly how good some of the younger players are going to be, some of that we have to project, some of that time will tell. There's clearly a foundation of players that you can start to add to and move forward from as opposed to needing to get to begin with."

Banner was asked about Jason La Canfora of CBS reporting that the NFL Network's Mike Lombardi, who worked for Banner in Philadelphia, is viewed as a candidate to help oversee personnel for the Browns.

"Well, since I haven't even decided whether the people that are here are staying or going, I think speculation that I'm actually deciding or have decided who I'd bring in if we made a change is not right," Banner said. "And then getting into comments about who we would be looking at if we made a change when we haven't made a decision whether to make a change is not anything I'd engage in."

Football decisions

Banner will be one of four or five people who are involved in making decisions about the team and its roster. And he'll implement his philosophies on that decision-making process.

"You increase the chances of getting a higher percentage of the decisions right by having that quality of intelligence, that number of people and an open dialogue and debate to come to a conclusion," Banner said. "You want to create consensus … because then you have everybody pulling in the same direction."

He prefers the coach to have the ultimate authority on roster decisions. Eagles coach Andy Reid wields such power.

"When you get to the 53-man roster, who's dressing each week, who's playing, you certainly want to give the coach an awful lot of freedom," he said. "Whatever he may contractually have, I think when you get down to that level, I think you really want to have the coach either deciding or having an overwhelming influence over it. But if you had somebody in personnel that was particularly strong and a coach was comfortable with that, you don't have to etch that in stone."

Stadium

On Sunday, Banner attended a game in Cleveland for the first time since he began working as Haslam's right-hand man. Banner said he and Haslam have had a few conversations with architects about their ideas for stadium enhancements, but they have yet to hold any meetings.

Banner doesn't favor the idea of adding a retractable roof to the stadium, but he said the scoreboards and sound systems would be changed eventually. He gushed over scoreboards with high-definition screens.

"I'm kind of inherently, personally, an old-fashioned, play-the-game-outdoors-and-deal-with-it person," Banner said. "But there may be some rationale, so we're going to have a full menu and, frankly, look at the thing from scratch on all aspects. Now clearly in the area of technology as it relates to scoreboards and sound systems, things have advanced so far from when these systems came from. I don't want to prejudge anything, but it's inconceivable we won't be making some very dramatic changes there."

Banner also said the stadium would be equipped with wireless Internet in the near future.

"We'll have Wi-Fi in the building," he said. "Now will we have it by next year, meaning 2013? I hope so. It depends upon how it fits into the more comprehensive changes."

Banner was instrumental in striking deals for the Eagles' new stadium and practice facility. He said he prefers the set-up of the Browns' training facility to that of the lakefront stadium.

"The stadium has more variation from if you were starting from scratch what you'd like to see than what you have, and trying to figure out what to do about that will be one of our big challenges and, frankly, from a long-term perspective, is one of the most important issues the organization has to deal with," Banner said. "You want from a player, from a fan, from a business, from a community-relations perspective, to have a stadium that gives us the opportunity to do everything the best it can be and to do so going forward, not just in the moment. We'll have to figure that out."

Hopefully not in that order. Be kind to the clueless guy.

Now we'll have 4 or 5 guys in the Draft Room. Haslem and Banner, neither of which are talent evaluators; the GM, who has no authority over the 53 man roster; and the Head Coach who does although some decisions will go through Banner. Who's the 5th guy, a janitor?

I am sure it will be the marketing guy, gotta decide which guy you draft is going to sell the most tickets.

Maybe one of the geniuses from this board?