DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Officially out: Carr released by Texans

Interesting article:

March 25, 2007, 3:25PM
Carr's tale: Signed, sacked and shipped off
QB's fall from grace took him through a dreadful 2-18 stretch with Texans

By DALE ROBERTSON
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

He would become the face of the NFL's newest franchise, and what a face he had. Tall, dark and handsome only began to describe the Texans' first starting quarterback — a young man with the squarest of jaws, the crewest of cuts and, not insignificantly, the cleanest of reputations.

On appearance, David Carr figured to be equally comfortable under center or on the cover of GQ. Dressed in a Texans uniform or one of those $2,500 Zegna suits the famed designer would foist upon him, no quarterback came into the NFL more perfectly sculpted for the highest-profile job in American sports.

And he seemed a perfect fit for the Texans in another way. They weren't going to be the Oakland Raiders. The church-going Carr, married to his college sweetheart and the father of two infant children, was "a good kid," projecting exactly the straight-laced, family-values image owner Bob McNair wanted for his team — hard-hitting on the field, clean-living off it.

The only tattoo Carr's buffed torso sported was the wash-off kind. It read "Can't Miss," and it was willed onto his skin by McNair, general manager Charley Casserly and coach Dom Capers. The Texans' original management team was a troika of true believers. They all thought their No. 1 pick in the 2002 draft was the right choice to lead the team from infancy to respectability.

But five years later, only McNair remains — an owner can't fire himself — and Carr also is gone, his mission here unaccomplished. The Texans won two more games in 2006 than they had in 2002 and never sniffed a playoff spot during his half-decade tenure that included one particularly dreadful 2-18 patch.

"When Carr was drafted, I didn't necessarily think he'd be a franchise quarterback, but I thought he'd become a decent starter and stay there a long time," Oilers Hall of Famer Warren Moon said Saturday. "I was a little surprised when I heard it all come down."

Here comes Schaub

Inevitably, a page was turned and a chapter closed. Unable to find another team willing to part with anything of value for Carr, the Texans cut their losses by cutting him Friday, having handed the reins to the largely untested Matt Schaub, a former third-round pick in Atlanta.

"To tell you the truth," said another former Oiler, Dan Pastorini, the only quarterback in Houston history to lead teams to the brink of the Super Bowl, which he did in 1978 and 1979. "I'm surprised it took them as long as it did. I was really pulling for Carr, but it's a sad reality of the game. He's a great kid, but you have to deliver in the NFL.

"A lot of what happened to him was his fault. He struggled with his mechanics and not picking things up. He has that sidearm delivery, and he had more balls batted down than any quarterback I've seen."

It was Casserly, the Texans' personnel expert, who played the point in selling the Fresno State phenom as possibly another John Elway, Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman, fellow former No. 1 picks who have arrived at, or are headed to, the Hall of Fame. But, unless Carr dramatically re-invents himself elsewhere — ironically, those unsavory, misfit Raiders are among those most intrigued by him as an unfettered free agent — he's pledging a different kind of fraternity.

Its members include the likes of Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith and Jeff George, monumental failures each because of how their stratospheric draft-day expectations were paired with subsequent desultory results.

Why did things go so terribly wrong for Carr? It's possible the answer is simple. The "good kid" who was supposed to have had it all might have lacked the most essential things — the sufficient talent and an all-consuming passion to succeed in the NFL.

From the moment the Texans ordained him as their cornerstone, there was clucking about his three-quarter-arm throwing motion (Vikings coach Brad Childress was harping about it as recently as last week) and other mechanical flaws. Then, as the seasons passed, questions arose about his leadership skills, maturity and dedication.

That he appeared to lean more on his family, particularly his doting, omnipresent father, than his brothers-in-arms perhaps should have raised more red flags than it did.

"Leadership is the most important thing in the world," Pastorini said. "The quarterback has to go out of his way to build camaraderie with his teammates. He has to make an effort, to sacrifice, to find out what they want and what they need. The quarterback has to spend time with them after practice in the regular season and after practice in training camp. He's got to know that when he steps into the huddle there are 11 minds thinking the same thing."

Although Carr's former teammates have been hesitant to criticize him publicly for lacking a take-charge mentality, it is widely known he didn't reach out to them as much, or as often, as he should have. He never, for example, forged the kind of bond Pastorini shared with crusty center Carl Mauck.

Further, those who observed Carr in social settings were occasionally surprised by his unworldly behavior. After following Carr for a few holes at a celebrity golf tournament, a prominent local doctor who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject said: "He acted like a teenager. It was hard for me to picture him in a huddle, trying to lead an NFL team."

But it's also possible that a succession of injuries to critical supporting-cast members, myriad strategic gaffes and just plain rotten luck doomed him.

Weak link on the left side

First, there was Tony Boselli, who was supposed to have had Carr's back from the get-go at left tackle, the most important and highly paid position in the offensive line. Yet, beset by chronic shoulder problems, the Jacksonville All-Pro never played a down for the Texans and Carr's introductory year in the NFL came to constitute the most cruel and unusual of punishments. His 76 sacks set a league record and left him with psychological scars that surely affect his decision-making.

"He's been hit so much," said Pastorini, who knows a good bit about the subject because he was similarly tortured at the outset of his career, "I think he's damaged goods."

Still, Carr, 27, toughed it out that season and the four that followed. No one questioned his pain threshold. He missed only four games despite being dumped an astonishing 249 times. But he proved to be consistent only in his stoic fortitude. His game-to-game football performance was erratic and a graph of his "progress" became a succession of parabolas, not the upward-trending straight line you hope to see.

"I've got some sympathy for the fact that he had to begin his career with an expansion franchise," said Oliver Luck, once Moon's backup with the Oilers. "It's tough to start out as the top draft choice for an expansion team. He wasn't surrounded by great talent, and I think the Texans would admit that. But, quite honestly, I don't have much sympathy for David because he didn't show what a first-round pick needs to show.

"If you see signs of a guy getting better year to year that's one thing. But he didn't. In some games, yes, he looked like a legitimate NFL quarterback. But he didn't do it in enough games. Most quarterbacks find certain things — special plays, a particular receiver — to fall back on when they need to. David never really established any of that."

Luck, the president of the Major League Soccer champion Dynamo, suggested Carr's college statistics and, hence, reputation could have been skewed by the caliber of the competition he faced at Fresno State.

"It's a hard thing to do as a scout, to decide if a quarterback, coming from a smaller school, has what it takes to move up to play in the NFL," Luck said. "It's the most difficult position to evaluate because so much more than physical skills are involved. So much of it is mental. It's also about how much time a guy is willing to invest, how much homework he'll do. Is he willing to watch film all night long? Does he have the leadership skills an NFL quarterback needs?

"At the end of the day, David just didn't show enough in all the areas for Gary (Kubiak) to have justified hitching his wagon to him."

Kubiak, who took over for Capers last offseason, is the mystery component in the Carr saga. McNair, Casserly and Capers had a vested interest in giving Carr every opportunity to establish himself. But, afforded the opportunity to give Carr a thumbs-down a year ago when the likes of Vince Young, Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler were options, Kubiak chose the status quo.


Move was overdue, Pastorini says

"Man," Pastorini said, "to think we could have had one of them ... But I hope the Texans have turned the corner. I want to see them win. What (the Oilers) experienced in 1978 and 1979 was worth all the injuries, pain and losses I had. I wouldn't trade those two seasons for anything.

"This (Carr's release) should have happened a long time ago. When (Sage) Rosenfels got to play, he showed a lot of promise. And I like Schaub's mechanics a lot better than I liked Carr's. But he's got to prove himself."

Something the man Schaub supplants never was able to do.

"Carr got sacked so much and (the Texans) committed so many blunders that he just didn't get any better," Moon said. "Watching him last season you could tell he's lost a lot of confidence. He needs a change of scenery. I think a new environment will do him good."

The Chronicle's John McClain contributed to this report.

dale.robertson@chron.com

Source

Feels like Houston Chronicle is helping to justify the cutting of Carr for an overpaid backup. jmho.

When players are signed, all the positives are put into print.

When players are released, all the negatives are put into print.

I think it's pretty funny that the guys they are quoting are freakin' Pastorini and Oliver Luck. The game isn't the same as it was back in their day.

I'm not going to say Carr is something he isn't, but I think this article and ones surely to be just like it are laughable. It reminds me when......who was it? Freakin' Mike Pagel?........said he could fix Couch

Going beyond all that, it's fair to judge Carr based on what he can and can't do, just as you can judge ANY player in that regard. Carr still has tools and IMHO can be a pretty steady QB in this league when he's not setting sack and QB pressure records.......

Perhaps it's all sour grapes. Perhaps the writer felt that balancing his negatives by printing his positives would defeat the purpose of his article. I don't know, I don't care. What jumped out at me was the commentary on his lack of leadership skills, his inability to build chemistry among his teammates, and his perceived lack of maturity. Possible character traits that haven't been discussed and go beyond his abused body, TD to INT ratio, sack total, lack of supporting talent or poor mechanics. Areas of interest the average fan may have no knowledge of. Your opinions of his tools and possible potential are duly noted, (I certainly won't argue them,) I merely posted the article as a point of interest and discussion. Maybe he can be a steady QB somewhere and cutting him will prove to be a colossal mistake. Or maybe he's just a bust and that's why he was cut. Whatever the case, I'm just not interested in finding out through prolonged experimentation by seeing him signed with the Browns. JMHO.

Boise, Boise, Boise, my friend. Take a deep breath, clear away the cobwebs, grab some wd40 and oil the hinges, then open that closed door in your mind buddy

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What jumped out at me was the commentary on his lack of leadership skills, his inability to build chemistry among his teammates, and his perceived lack of maturity.

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Here's the kick in the butt on that Cal,,, last year, when Kubiak came on board,, you didn't hear that stuff about Carr.. In fact, I dare say you heard just the opposite.

Something happened to change Kubiaks mind on Carr. Not sure what it was exactly.

I'm not FOR getting Carr in here. But at the same time, I find it impossible to trash a guy that's been under the pressure he's been under with all those sacks and hurries since day one..

No QB should have to endure that kinda pressure and then be kicked to the curb like an old rag doll.. UNLESS he's injured and they aren't talking about it!

Which was kinda the case with Tim Couch if you remember.. (not saying that Tim was or wasn't as good as Carr.,,, not gonna go there)

Things we DO know about Carr are that he's got a good arm, seems to read D's pretty well and he's fairly mobile. Things that worry me about him are whether or not he's toasted and gunshy for life given his experiences in Houston.. You can't know that until you protect him and he feels it.. Then you will know.

To me, it's a risk that may just be worth taking if you are in need of a QB!

I think he'll be bernie 2.0

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He may ultimately prove to be worth the risk, I just hope it's some other team that takes it.

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I was just trying to be nice when I said he may be worth the risk for a team in need of a QB,,,, I should have just been as blunt as you and said I'd rather it not be the Browns

lol, hey, it may be worth the risk... the Phins seem to collect used QBs, why not a Carr?

I was on the "Let's sign Carr" bandwagon too. Until I read this article....

Carr's tale: Signed, sacked and shipped off
QB's fall from grace took him through a dreadful 2-18 stretch with Texans

He would become the face of the NFL's newest franchise, and what a face he had. Tall, dark and handsome only began to describe the Texans' first starting quarterback — a young man with the squarest of jaws, the crewest of cuts and, not insignificantly, the cleanest of reputations.

On appearance, David Carr figured to be equally comfortable under center or on the cover of GQ. Dressed in a Texans uniform or one of those $2,500 Zegna suits the famed designer would foist upon him, no quarterback came into the NFL more perfectly sculpted for the highest-profile job in American sports.

And he seemed a perfect fit for the Texans in another way. They weren't going to be the Oakland Raiders. The church-going Carr, married to his college sweetheart and the father of two infant children, was "a good kid," projecting exactly the straight-laced, family-values image owner Bob McNair wanted for his team — hard-hitting on the field, clean-living off it.

The only tattoo Carr's buffed torso sported was the wash-off kind. It read "Can't Miss," and it was willed onto his skin by McNair, general manager Charley Casserly and coach Dom Capers. The Texans' original management team was a troika of true believers. They all thought their No. 1 pick in the 2002 draft was the right choice to lead the team from infancy to respectability.

But five years later, only McNair remains — an owner can't fire himself — and Carr also is gone, his mission here unaccomplished. The Texans won two more games in 2006 than they had in 2002 and never sniffed a playoff spot during his half-decade tenure that included one particularly dreadful 2-18 patch.

"When Carr was drafted, I didn't necessarily think he'd be a franchise quarterback, but I thought he'd become a decent starter and stay there a long time," Oilers Hall of Famer Warren Moon said Saturday. "I was a little surprised when I heard it all come down."


Here comes Schaub
Inevitably, a page was turned and a chapter closed. Unable to find another team willing to part with anything of value for Carr, the Texans cut their losses by cutting him Friday, having handed the reins to the largely untested Matt Schaub, a former third-round pick in Atlanta.

"To tell you the truth," said another former Oiler, Dan Pastorini, the only quarterback in Houston history to lead teams to the brink of the Super Bowl, which he did in 1978 and 1979. "I'm surprised it took them as long as it did. I was really pulling for Carr, but it's a sad reality of the game. He's a great kid, but you have to deliver in the NFL.

"A lot of what happened to him was his fault. He struggled with his mechanics and not picking things up. He has that sidearm delivery, and he had more balls batted down than any quarterback I've seen."

It was Casserly, the Texans' personnel expert, who played the point in selling the Fresno State phenom as possibly another John Elway, Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman, fellow former No. 1 picks who have arrived at, or are headed to, the Hall of Fame. But, unless Carr dramatically re-invents himself elsewhere — ironically, those unsavory, misfit Raiders are among those most intrigued by him as an unfettered free agent — he's pledging a different kind of fraternity.

Its members include the likes of Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith and Jeff George, monumental failures each because of how their stratospheric draft-day expectations were paired with subsequent desultory results.

Why did things go so terribly wrong for Carr? It's possible the answer is simple. The "good kid" who was supposed to have had it all might have lacked the most essential things — the sufficient talent and an all-consuming passion to succeed in the NFL.

From the moment the Texans ordained him as their cornerstone, there was clucking about his three-quarter-arm throwing motion (Vikings coach Brad Childress was harping about it as recently as last week) and other mechanical flaws. Then, as the seasons passed, questions arose about his leadership skills, maturity and dedication.

That he appeared to lean more on his family, particularly his doting, omnipresent father, than his brothers-in-arms perhaps should have raised more red flags than it did.

"Leadership is the most important thing in the world," Pastorini said. "The quarterback has to go out of his way to build camaraderie with his teammates. He has to make an effort, to sacrifice, to find out what they want and what they need. The quarterback has to spend time with them after practice in the regular season and after practice in training camp. He's got to know that when he steps into the huddle there are 11 minds thinking the same thing."

Although Carr's former teammates have been hesitant to criticize him publicly for lacking a take-charge mentality, it is widely known he didn't reach out to them as much, or as often, as he should have. He never, for example, forged the kind of bond Pastorini shared with crusty center Carl Mauck.

Further, those who observed Carr in social settings were occasionally surprised by his unworldly behavior. After following Carr for a few holes at a celebrity golf tournament, a prominent local doctor who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject said: "He acted like a teenager. It was hard for me to picture him in a huddle, trying to lead an NFL team."

But it's also possible that a succession of injuries to critical supporting-cast members, myriad strategic gaffes and just plain rotten luck doomed him.


Weak link on the left side
First, there was Tony Boselli, who was supposed to have had Carr's back from the get-go at left tackle, the most important and highly paid position in the offensive line. Yet, beset by chronic shoulder problems, the Jacksonville All-Pro never played a down for the Texans and Carr's introductory year in the NFL came to constitute the most cruel and unusual of punishments. His 76 sacks set a league record and left him with psychological scars that surely affect his decision-making.

"He's been hit so much," said Pastorini, who knows a good bit about the subject because he was similarly tortured at the outset of his career, "I think he's damaged goods."

Still, Carr, 27, toughed it out that season and the four that followed. No one questioned his pain threshold. He missed only four games despite being dumped an astonishing 249 times. But he proved to be consistent only in his stoic fortitude. His game-to-game football performance was erratic and a graph of his "progress" became a succession of parabolas, not the upward-trending straight line you hope to see.

"I've got some sympathy for the fact that he had to begin his career with an expansion franchise," said Oliver Luck, once Moon's backup with the Oilers. "It's tough to start out as the top draft choice for an expansion team. He wasn't surrounded by great talent, and I think the Texans would admit that. But, quite honestly, I don't have much sympathy for David because he didn't show what a first-round pick needs to show.

"If you see signs of a guy getting better year to year that's one thing. But he didn't. In some games, yes, he looked like a legitimate NFL quarterback. But he didn't do it in enough games. Most quarterbacks find certain things — special plays, a particular receiver — to fall back on when they need to. David never really established any of that."

Luck, the president of the Major League Soccer champion Dynamo, suggested Carr's college statistics and, hence, reputation could have been skewed by the caliber of the competition he faced at Fresno State.

"It's a hard thing to do as a scout, to decide if a quarterback, coming from a smaller school, has what it takes to move up to play in the NFL," Luck said. "It's the most difficult position to evaluate because so much more than physical skills are involved. So much of it is mental. It's also about how much time a guy is willing to invest, how much homework he'll do. Is he willing to watch film all night long? Does he have the leadership skills an NFL quarterback needs?

"At the end of the day, David just didn't show enough in all the areas for Gary (Kubiak) to have justified hitching his wagon to him."

Kubiak, who took over for Capers last offseason, is the mystery component in the Carr saga. McNair, Casserly and Capers had a vested interest in giving Carr every opportunity to establish himself. But, afforded the opportunity to give Carr a thumbs-down a year ago when the likes of Vince Young, Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler were options, Kubiak chose the status quo.


Move was overdue, Pastorini says
"Man," Pastorini said, "to think we could have had one of them ... But I hope the Texans have turned the corner. I want to see them win. What (the Oilers) experienced in 1978 and 1979 was worth all the injuries, pain and losses I had. I wouldn't trade those two seasons for anything.

"This (Carr's release) should have happened a long time ago. When (Sage) Rosenfels got to play, he showed a lot of promise. And I like Schaub's mechanics a lot better than I liked Carr's. But he's got to prove himself."

Something the man Schaub supplants never was able to do.

"Carr got sacked so much and (the Texans) committed so many blunders that he just didn't get any better," Moon said. "Watching him last season you could tell he's lost a lot of confidence. He needs a change of scenery. I think a new environment will do him good."

The Chronicle's John McClain contributed to this report.

Maybe it is a lack of skill that led to his demise and now I'm not so sure I'd want to see him occupying any of the Browns cap money.

Already posted....

Sorry BiF!

Didn't read the whole thread.

It's alright, just don't let it happen again.

I'll be honest here. Nobody knows wheather Phil will go after Carr or not. I don't claim to be a mind reader and don't plan to pretend that I am.

One thing I try to do when reading an article,or even listenning to somebody talk,is ask myself one question,"What does this person stand to gain by telling me this?" Do they have an angle?

Let me pose it to you this way..............Have you ever heard an NCAA coach,who has a "high pick" talent on his team coming out for the draft say "HE SUCKS!"??? No,you don't. This kid is their project. He's "their guy". They aren't going to discourage him from being drafted high.

Now let's look at the reverse of that. You just sign a guy to a contract extension. A HUGE $$$ contract extension then cut him the very next year? Sounds like they got "some splainin' to do" huh?

Now I'm not saying they don't believe this,nor am I saying they DO believe this. But it sure looks much better when you try to cover your ass with such a bone headed move doesn't it?

Just something one might want to consider before buying a story like this hook,line and sinker I believe.

JMHO

FWI Peter King's Monday Morning QB article today (pg 3 )said Carr was paid $31.47 million for his services. On page 4 he goes in to detail about Kubiak trying to give Carr in depth training and the bad decisions Carr was making. It was these continued bad decisions that led Kubiak to decide they needed a new qb.
sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writerspeter_king

just clicking,

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It was these continued bad decisions that led Kubiak to decide they needed a new qb

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Why does everyone seem to think Kubiak knows so much about QB's? Who is this guy "tied to" besides Plummer, Carr, and now Schaub?? Have I missed something?

I was one of the few Plummer fans on this board but even I know he was a LONG way from being an elite QB on his best day.

Kubiak has liked Carr enough to give him an $8 mil bonus and pass on Young. He's disliked him enough to cut him. Seems like he doesn't have a clear opinion.

And Schaub, like him or hate him hasn't proven jack... either way

So why do people keep acting like this guy raised Elway, Montana, and Manning from birth??

Does the name Elway mean a thing to you?

Wasn't Kubiak Elway's backup?

Kubiak was indeed elways back up in the 80's... but he was elways position coach and later OC for Denver when they won Back to back SB's

And he won those SB's with Elway. Denver hasn't been close since. (Well, closer than us but who can't say that). I think the point is that while he might be a good coach he hasn't proven that he's the next coming of Vince Lombardi so maybe his QB judgements could be slightly askew.

Frankly, I can't believe Carr is as bad as he's being made out to be. And I doubt Schaub is as good as some on here would have you believe.

if Carr was smart... he'd be trying to sign with the Panthers...

To Gift and Otto,,

Look, all I'm saying about Kubiak is that he knows good when he sees it.. He got the most out of Plummer,, He goes away Denver, Plummer goes to hell in a handbasket...

I am guessing here, but it seems to me that if Kubiak thought Carr had the skills, he would have been nuts to pay Schaub,, a completely UNPROVEN guy, the kinda money they did.. It would just be STUPID!

If your asking me do I think that Kubiak is the QB Guru,, no, not really, but the original question I responded to was from Gift,,, and he forgot to mention Elway..

As for the impact Kubiak had on Elway,, you would have to ask Elway.. I do remember him saying that Kubiak was a huge help to him,, but of course, that was ages ago and those quotes are long gone... So I can't prove it to you.