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Half of the Y's over 40 league's in better shape.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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Knee surgery for Andy. Out 6-8 weeks.
Should've dumped him in 2010. Kiss that trade value goodbye.
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Just great. How do we get from "bruised knee" to "major surgery"?  I am now in the trade camp. Once he returns and throws down a few double doubles, we should be able to find a taker. I like the way that Thompson has been playing,and hopefully Zeller will develop with playing time. Man we really lack bigs. As little as Samuels did for us, at least he was a big body. We really lack big bodies right now. My dream would be to trade Andy, Casspi, and Walton and get something back. Sure it won't happen ...... but it's a dream ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He won't be back before the trade deadline, I'd be willing to bet.
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You're probably right, unfortunately. That's part of why it's a dream, I guess. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yep. Third season in a row we get him for 20-30 games before losing him to injury. Time to cut bait.
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Quote:
Yep. Third season in a row we get him for 20-30 games before losing him to injury. Time to cut bait.
for what? at least (unlike Hafner for the Tribe) he does not have a cap crippling contract. i don't see much of anyone who is going to give us anything for him with his history. just have to play it out would be my guess.
best chance would be Memphis rolling the dice (they desperately want to get under the luxury line and there are articles saying they would consider dumping Gay for the Sun's Dudley). so, to get them under the luxury line we could offer:
Andy, Casspi, Miles
for
Gay, Bayless
I'd like the trade well enough (does limit what we can do as it eats most of our space though). But, it would come down to Memphis not getting any better deals and rolling the dice they can use Andy as a frontcourt rotation player by the playoffs (and possibly doing the trade while he's still injured). I wouldn't bet on that.
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At this point, you can't do anything. Trade deadline's six weeks from tomorrow. Unless you can convince a team that can reasonably expect to be playing in late May to take a chance that he'll be in game shape for the post-season, they'll have to wait until the off-season. He should not be on this roster by the time October rolls around. The prudent thing would've been to deal him when he had a bazillion double-doubles and it was clear that the Cavs were not going anywhere still. But now the focus has to shift from getting max value for him to just getting him off the team with as little long-term damage to the roster as possible. Hustle and leadership don't mean much when you never see the court after December.
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agreed. that's why I brought up Memphis. the only teams that will even consider it are the ones that are more worried about making a trade for salary cap/luxury line reasons than basketball reasons.
Memphis needs to shed at least $5mil this year to get under the line and about $10mil to stay for subsequent seasons. the deal I put above sheds $8mil this year and close to $11mil moving forward (if they keep Miles and dump Casspi).
if they get Andy back as a defensive rotational player in the playoffs, then it's just gravy.
(odds of them agreeing to even that are still low though)
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I could see a team like Miami or OKC being interested, but I don't really know their salary situations offhand, and I know that Miami, at least, has nothing to offer in trade.
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It will be nearly impossible for the Cavs to get anything of value back for Varejao now that he is injured. Their best bet is wait till he comes back healthy and try and trade him in the off-season.
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I agree. Like no_logo and I said, the only way you're going to be able to move him during this season is if a team poised to go deep into the playoffs thinks he could be that guy that puts them over the edge, but can also excel during the regular season without him while he gets back to 100%.
I thought, pre-injury, that he could be the missing piece of the puzzle for OKC...above average defensively, able to work the pick and roll with Westbrook and 5 or 6 offensive boards a night where he's kicking out to Durant for a three, Westbrook to penetrate or just putting it back up himself.
If they had a similar opinion we could trade Andy plus Luke's expiring deal for their two rookies plus Kevin Martin's expiring deal. We get some more young talent and they get potentially the piece that can put them over the edge.
Who knows...just thinking out loud.
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No way is OKC trading Kevin Martin.
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He replaced Harden as their scoring off the bench and has been gold for them. If they are trading him they have to be getting back someone who can score like him.
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You may very well be right. I don't think they re-sign Martin after this season though. He's also a defensive liability and doesn't rebound.
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Harden was among the worst defensive players in the league. That's why they have Sefolosha. I wouldn't be surprised if Martin left, but I expect him to re-sign with OKC for much less than he is currently making.
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Well ... it was a bit of a far fetched long-shot scenerio for some of us for months/years, but it looks like it's actually getting some traction: link Quote:
Cleveland Cavaliers may target LeBron James in 2014 free agency, according to report
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.By Dan Devine
After a Sunday night loss to the Los Angeles Lakers, the Cleveland Cavaliers sit at 9-30, owners of the second-worst record in the NBA and, outside of the transcendent Kyrie Irving, possessed of relatively little that's likely to stoke fans' interest. In the depths of a lost season, with all eyes on the future, many fans tend to rely on trade rumors to pass the time — if there's any chance of flipping an established veteran for younger, cheaper, more potential-laden pieces that could become foundational elements in a successful future rebuilding project, then, while it's not exactly thrilling, it's at least something.
Any chance of the Cavs engaging in one of those kinds of moves before this February's trade deadline was likely all but scuttled last week, when the team announced that center Anderson Varejao would need surgery to repair a split muscle in his right leg, and that the recovery would keep him off the floor for as much as two more months. Prior to his injury, Varejao's fantastic two-way play and reasonable contract made him a top-tier trade chip for Cavaliers general manager Chris Grant; after his injury, the Cavs' most attractive available assets include Luke Walton's $6 million expiring contract and a chunk of salary cap space that could absorb a bad contract from a team seeking financial relief in exchange for, say, a first-round draft pick.
There seem to be few bites on either "asset" from the 29 other NBA teams, making it less-than-likely that the Cavs swing an interesting deal before Feb. 21. But according to Cavaliers beat man Jason Lloyd of the Akron Beacon Journal, the team's stand-pat philosophy is aimed at making the biggest possible splash in two summers — a deal that would welcome Ohio's prodigal son back into the fold:
[...] With the summer of 2014 quickly approaching, the length of a contract the Cavs will absorb is now limited.
Executives and agents around the league are convinced the Cavaliers won’t do anything to jeopardize their ability to sign a free agent to a max contract during the summer of 2014, when LeBron James can again become a free agent. As fans in Northeast Ohio continue to howl and remain divided about the possibility of his return, more and more people around the league believe there is a strong possibility James will indeed return to Cleveland after next season.
The Cavs are well aware of this, too, and won’t take on a bad contract if it compromises their cap space in two years.
It's ridiculous to talk about where James will play in two seasons' time, but when the Cavs are included in the mix, it becomes the fun kind of ridiculous — not least of which because the rumored James/Cavs reunion has long been, as Scott Sargent of Cleveland blog Waiting for Next Year calls it, just about "the worst kept secret amongst NBA circles." It might not be as crazy as you'd think.
The move is theoretically possible because James has an early termination option in his contract that he can exercise after next season to get out of the six-year, $109.8 million deal he signed with the Miami Heat during the summer of 2010. While it does seem sort of crazy that James would voluntarily walk away from making about $20.6 million in '14-'15 and just over $22.1 million in '15-'16 to play in Miami — and as Grantland's Zach Lowe pointed out last week in an analysis of Cleveland's post-Varejao-injury predicament, "there has been no on-record indication he has much interest in" opting out — it makes some long-term sense.
If James were to opt out, it seems about as sure a bet as could exist in the NBA that a still-healthy, still-productive version of James — who will still be just 29 years old on Opening Day 2014 — would be coveted by any team with enough cap space to offer a full maximum-level contract. The Cavaliers are on target to be one of those chock-full-of-cap-space squads come the summer of 2014; at this point, the only guaranteed '14-'15 money on the Cavs' books is about $18 million earmarked for young building blocks Irving, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters and Tyler Zeller.
Even assuming a long-term extension for Irving following the '13-'14 season, the Cavs will have more than enough space to be able to make the offer, as well as a bonafide star backcourt scorer and facilitator to pair with James, plus some potentially interesting secondary pieces to share the burden and enough room under the cap to add some veteran depth to the core. How attractive a roster Cleveland would have depends heavily on how the likes of Thompson, Waiters, Zeller and the Cavs' 2013 lottery pick develop over the course of the next two years, but provided the team's salary structure remains essentially the same, you'd expect the Cavs to be able to be in the mix.
They're unlikely to be alone. Lloyd's story comes about three months after a preseason report that the Los Angeles Lakers could have designs on luring James to Hollywood to serve as their signature post-Kobe Bryant star and primary scorer. At least a handful of other teams figure to be able to carve out max-salary cap space for '14-'15; given the opportunity to pay as much as they could for the consensus best player in the world, one would figure they'd jump at the opportunity.
After that October report, James promptly pooh-pooh'ed any L.A. interest, emphasizing that his sole focus was defending Miami's NBA title during the 2012-13 season, with no room for thoughts on where he'd ply his trade following the 2013-14 season. Then again, as Yahoo! Sports NBA columnist Adrian Wojnarowski wrote before a Heat/Cavs game in Cleveland last February, "free agency is forever on [James'] mind" and, for some time now, preparing the path for a potential return to Ohio has been, too:
Before mentioning Thursday his openness to playing in Cleveland again, James months ago had an emissary or two carry that message to the Cavaliers’ front office, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. His camp wanted the message delivered to owner Dan Gilbert, sources said, but so far, the response has been silence. [...]
James can’t opt out of his contract until after the 2013-2014 season, but he understands that the Cavaliers would have to make a decision to hold back on their rebuild, preserve cap space, and wait on him all over again. He has to convince Gilbert to make the leap of faith, and that includes first working over the fans.
Of his return, James said: “I think it would be great. It would be fun to play in front of these fans again. I had a lot fun times in my seven years here. … I’m here as a Miami Heat player, and I’m happy where I am now, but I don’t rule that out in no sense.
“And if I decide to come back, hopefully the fans will accept me.”
That, of course, would be the $64,000 question. Could Cleveland fans accept LeBron James back into the wine and gold?
Yes, the summer of 2010's a long way in the past and Cavaliers fans have since turned to Irving as their favorite son, and yes, James' national reputation has undergone a major rehabilitation following a remarkable year that saw him win not only a third NBA MVP, but also an NBA title, NBA Finals MVP and Olympic gold medal with Team USA. But after the psychodrama of "The Decision" and its aftermath — after all the losing that followed it and the relative lack of hope that's clung to the Cavaliers franchise since LeBron headed south — it still seems like a massive leap of faith to suggest that owner Dan Gilbert and Cleveland fans at large would be able to get right with a return.
Then again, the prospect of having the best player in the world again and the Cavs returning to relevance could prove to be pretty enticing for a fan base that hasn't even sniffed the playoffs since James left. And as CBSSports.com's Zach Harper notes, the potential redemption story of LeBron healing past wounds by fulfilling the promise of his youth and bringing a title to his home state is almost too good a narrative to be true. If Lloyd's right, and Grant and company are determined to make an honest-to-goodness run at James, we might just get a chance to find out how a script like that ends.
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yeah, no surprise it will continue to be a rumor. but, i don't think there is any way that it happens.
he can get what he wants for his brand just by getting us interested and bringing him in during the FA period. "see, they wanted me back"
then, he can just go back to Miami or wherever has a ready-made contender for him in a city that will ignore any past transgressions (which would not happen here)
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He wouldn't be able to go back to Miami, not for anything near a max deal anyways.
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He wouldn't be able to go back to Miami, not for anything near a max deal anyways.
Correct ... if he opts out, then he waives his Bird rights. Then it's up to who has the most cap room.
I honestly don't see why he would "want" to go to the Lakers. If he wanted to be surrounded by stars, he already has that in Miami. He has no real bias to wanting to become a Laker either ... it's not like he's from the west coast or was a Laker fan growing up. I don't think he really cares about "carrying on the Laker tradition, like the guys who write these articles do. I'd could see him becoming a Bull or Knick before becoming a Laker. Honestly, the only moves that would really make sense would be Cleveland or Miami. In Miami, he'd keep the current situation going ... in Cleveland you'd have the whole "Prodigal son" angle with a team full of young studs like Irving that he was never able to get last time he was here.
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He wouldn't be able to go back to Miami, not for anything near a max deal anyways.
alot of factors at play there. technically, yes, they could still offer him but it will cost them as they'll be repeat-offenders of the luxury tax by then.
very good chance he just opts-in on his deal as well.
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Not if a max deal would put them over the cap, which, given that Wade and Bosh will get around $41 million combined in 2014, is a very real possibility. Joel Anthony and Norris Cole will get just under $6 million combined in 2014. Haslem gets $4.6 million. Mike Miller gets $6.6 million. Anthony and Miller are untradeable. Miller would have to be waived via amnesty after this season.
Even if it doesn't put them over, they'd have even less flexibility to fill out the roster than they did in 2010. They'd have Bird rights for Chalmers, Battier and James Jones.
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they would have LeBron's Bird rights too (so they could go over the cap to sign him). the new CBA I didn't think changed that (it only changed the fact that they have much less flexibility of signing other FAs because they'd be in luxury territory)
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Quote:
his brand just by getting us interested and bringing him in during the FA period. "see, they wanted me back"
)
I don't think Dan Gilbert would fall for that.
I think Lebron opts out for sure. Where he goes is anyone's guess.
I think one party will reach out to the other, and there will be some talks, but if Lebron wants to parade around team execs like he did in 2010, I don't think Gilbert gets put into that trap.
I think the Cavs feel like they should get preferential treatment in any talks. I honestly think both sides have grown up so I don't see LBJ doing anything close to what he did in 2010, before, during, and after the decision.
I think the Cavs will simply offer out an olive branch, sit down with him, and lay it out. They then walk away with their pride still in hand, and if Lebron wants it, he takes it.
I've been driving the "Bring Back LeBron" bandwagon for 2 years now, but I won't stoop to the way both some of these teams and their fans did in 2010.
They have a few nice young pieces now, a superstar point guard in the making, another lotto pick this year (+ the Lakers pick?), and maybe even another next year. Lots of cap room. I think it would be an ideal situation for Lebron. It all depends on what he wants. If he wants to win multiple titles, go play in LA and make Dwight into the superstar he's supposed to be.
If you want to come back and finish what you started? Let's worry about one before we talk multiple.
I do think if Lebron came back, with our pieces, and I'm not entirely sure who's available but I would say we'd have a good chance at getting a really good player. Even more than when LBJ was with us before. It was always just come play with Lebron and some players. Now it's, come play with Lebron, Kyrie Irving, a few really nice young pieces..
The other thing is, Coach Scott. I hope he can turn things around a bit so he can keep his job. Byron Scott pushes his players. He always has. He works them harder than a lot of other coaches. Lebron respects him, even if he didn't choose to come back, and if LBJ did come back, bought into Scott's coaching, that would really set the bar for that team.
I'm not gonna worrry about if/when he's coming back. I'll let all that play out anyway. I'm not putting any kind of emotional value in it like we all did in 2010. The way I see it, if he comes back? Awesome. If he doesn't? Good luck wherever you go. He won't get me again though. I want him back but as a fan I'm not getting on my hands and knees and neither will Dan Gilbert. A lot to be worked out there.
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Quote:
they would have LeBron's Bird rights too
Not if he opts out.
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Quote:
Quote:
they would have LeBron's Bird rights too
Not if he opts out.
i'm looking through Coon's site and I don't see anything that confirms this statement. i thought as long as it was the player (and not the team) that opted out, the Bird rights remained.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q32
one passage that is a bit fuzzy in this is:
Quote:
The player must complete his contract immediately prior to becoming a free agent, which essentially means he can't have cleared waivers. If he signs a series of contracts, then this only applies to the last contract. If a team signs a player and waives him after one game, signs and waives him after one game again the next year, and in the third year signs him and keeps him the entire season (assuming he didn't sign elsewhere during those three seasons), then they will have full Bird rights following the third season.
Once Bird rights are established, they don't go away unless the player is renounced or signs with another NBA team. This means teams retain Bird rights to many players who have long since retired, and could still use those Bird rights to re-sign such a player if that player attempts a comeback (but not for a sign-and-trade transaction -- see question number 99 for details).
LeBron opting out means he doesn't go to waivers though.
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ok, i found it in the option answer. you guys are wrong, they still hold his Bird rights. they closed the loophole by limiting contracts to 1 option and only in the last year of a deal, but LeBron/Wade/Bosh all have the loophole built into their contract (as it was agreed to before the new CBA): Quote:
Player options were previously used as a way to give the player more money. A long-term deal was agreed upon with a player option after the player obtained Larry Bird rights. The player invoked the option, became a free agent, and then the team & player signed a new contract for more money using the Bird exception. However they closed this loophole by preventing player options and ETOs before all but the last season of a contract.
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I could legitimately see this happening. The Cavaliers would have Irving, Waiters, Zeller, Andy, Thompson, and 2 first round draft picks. Add LeBron back onto this team and he legitimately might win a few championships. Imagine Andy and Zeller, both able to hit a 10-15 foot shot, along with Irving and Waiters, any of whom could be a drive and kick target for LeBron ...... and visa versa.
Could be fun.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Theres a small part of me that would rather never win a title than "needing" LeBron to come back to win one...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Theres a small part of me that would rather never win a title than "needing" LeBron to come back to win one...
I've thought about that too. Not to spite him, but to shove it in the national media's face.
Then I came to the realization that I'm a Cleveland fan and stand a better chance at my first title with him, than without.
I don't care how we get one. I realize if we won one with him back, that the national media would spin it as poor old Clevo couldn't win without the guy that turned his back on them, blah blah blah. Bottom line is, I'd be too drunk to realize that.
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I just don't think I'm going to be "as excited" as I was in 08-10, I really think Orlando screwed us out of a title in 09 and then I will always blame LeBron for 2010 against Boston...
That was the pinnacle, and we've come crashing down so far, I don't know that it'll be the same if/when we get back up there...
I was more interested in the Heat losing than the Cavs winning for two years, and now that they won, I just don't care...
Had he went 0fer with the Heat, and then came back? it's a completely different story....
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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The option is an ETO, not a player option, but it appears that you're right from what I gather. I stand corrected.
He would still have a ~$20 million cap hold, so Miami wouldn't be able to do anything that they wouldn't have been able to do if he didn't exercise the ETO, though. But yes, it does look like he could test the FA waters and return to Miami if he wanted.
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Lakers vs Heat might be good
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Cannot figure out how Miami is only up 2 right now.
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Cannot figure out how Miami is only up 2 right now.
This should be a blow out if you look at points in the paint and turnovers
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The Lakers are among the laziest teams I have ever seen.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
LeBron just took out Kobe with a heavy screen.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Basketball Thread Part III
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