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What did Matt Cassel get trade for? He was a 7th round pick (number 230) by the Patriots. Traded for pick 34 by the Pats.
Okay. And that has bearing on what exactly?
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How about Matt Shaub what was he traded for? He was a Falcons 3rd pick trade for 2 second round picks.
Again. I'm not sure how that has any bearing on Alex Smith.
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And Alex Smith a former first pick in the draft who has done the following for the 49'ers:
Most game winning drives in a single season: 6 (2011)[58]
Most 4th quarter comeback wins in a single season: 6 (2011)[58]
Fewest interceptions in a single season: 5 in 2011 (16 starts) [58]
Most consecutive pass attempts without an interception: 249 (previous record: 184, by Steve Young).
All of it means nothing.
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And he is going to only get a fourth rounder in trade. I don't think so.
I don't think he's going to be traded anyway, so I think that they'll get anything for him. And if he was traded, I don't think that SF would get much more than a 4th for him.
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Hall of Famer
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Because Mike Holmgren misplayed a winning hand and didn't land RG3.
Then he over reacted and drafted Weeden a round or two early.
That is why we are where we are and why I will hate Holmgren forever. Players like Griffin do not come around very often. He should be playing for the Browns.
Now we have to suffer through a decision on Weeden. Then go back to square one and find a quarterback capable of leading a team for years and being good enough to win a Super Bowl.
RG3 makes the Redskins better but it remains to be seen if he's going to put the Redskins in a position to win in the near future.
Also, remember that Holmgren tried to get Sam Bradford from St. Louis on more than one occasion (including last year - before trying to make an offer to get RG3). With the trade that was pulled off, the Rams have several more years of additional high draft picks to land the premiere QB to replace Bradford.
There are a number of QBs that I think will be very good QBs in the NFL that are coming out this year and we will be in a position to get one of them if we want. Although, I think we'll probably go with either McCoy or Weeden next year with a real competition and not the Weeden anointing because of draft position that we saw this year. Of course, the offensive plays will be designed around whoever the QB is.
Replacing the HC and improving the offensive play-calling will be critical to the team's future progress.
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Legend
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Legend
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How about market value of a quarterback based upon when he was drafted, what he has accomplished, and his age.
Market value is not much different than slotting salary for draft picks. It is based upon precedence.
So you think a player is going to make around $8 mil a year and sit on the bench?
You think maybe there maybe be issues in the locker room?
Think back to when Tom Brady took over for Bledsoe?
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Legend
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Legend
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I like RG3, but he isn't worth 3 firsts and more.. Nobody is.
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Really?
Whoever you believe are the top three quarterbacks in the league and you tell me they are not worth 3 number one draft picks?
Keep in mind draft picks are prospects. They do not always translate into great players.
Try winning consistently over a ten year period without a great quarterback.
If nobody was is worth 3 first rounders and a second why did Washington pay up?
The Browns won 4 games last year. Washington won 5. Who do you think is in a better position now to win consistently?
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Legend
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Here's the bottom line. Call QB Position 1.
Positions 2-53 just aren't that different from team to team. The talent is not that different in Positions 2-53 from team to team. The way Positions 2-53 are built from team to team are not that different. Everyone can argue all day until they are blue in the face about who's team has better Positions 2-53. It simply doesn't matter. Only one position really matters. If the post that Clevesteve put up showing the groups of three players by team doesn't drive this point home I don't know what will. Really awesome post by the way.
To that point it is extremely disappointing that we set ourselves up so beautifully with the ammunition to get RG3 and failed to do so. That was the whole point. And we didn't get it done. So we don't really have that many options left at this point. Hopefully Weeden can become that guy. I don't think that final chapter has been written yet but I think its trending downward and that scares the crap out of me. I'm tired of watching losing football.
Banner / Haslam's #1 priority has to be QB. If they believe in Weeden then bring in a coach that will get the most out of him. Its obvious Shurmur does not play to his strengths. If they don't believe in him ....and if you read between the lines they do not ....then I hope they have a plan.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Legend
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Legend
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Correct.
It astounds me that some people just do not get it.
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Legend
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Really?
Whoever you believe are the top three quarterbacks in the league and you tell me they are not worth 3 number one draft picks?
You can't tell if a qb is going to be top 3 at draft time no matter who he is, and it would be foolish to give up so much for an unproven talent. To use your game here....Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24th, Brees was a second rounder and Brady was a 7th rounder. Rapistberger was picked 11th. The Giants didn't give up that much for Eli, yet you're ticked that the Browns didn't trade the farm for someone when it's nothing more than a crapshoot if he'll be as good as any of them.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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I do not remember one person who as a professional in the NFL involved in player evaluation either currently or in the past not believe that Andrew Luck and RG3 were going to be great QB's.
Obviously Washington thought so.
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Legend
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Legend
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How about market value of a quarterback based upon when he was drafted, what he has accomplished, and his age.
What does "when he was drafted" have to do with anything?
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Hall of Famer
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I have never seen a QB as pro ready as Luck and with RG3, he just took to many shots but everything else was pretty damn good.
Anyway, I havent seen enough bad from Shurmur to fire him nor have I seen enough eureka moments to make me think he is going to be a great head coach. I actually think the guy is learning and improving. We had an incredibly balanced offense last week against the steelers. Not sure what the pass/run ratio was last week but I imagine it was close to 50/50.
My defense of Pat is more about defending the staff in place, than defending Shurmur. Promote Jauron and keep everyone in place, I would be thrilled. Promote Chilly and keep everyone in place, I am thrilled.
With that said, gotta keep Heckert teamed with this staff, they have chemistry in finding guys for this system.
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Legend
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What does "when he was drafted" have to do with anything?
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It is a gauge of what GM's thought of his talent level when leaving college for the pros.
And it determines his contract value.
After being in the NFL for his first contract period draft class doesn't mean much.
However, Alex Smith was just given an a 3 year extension at $8 mil or so.
Let's make this simple. In my opinion Alex Smith is a better option at QB than Weeden.
If the options are:
1. Play Weeden next year.
2. Draft a QB in the first round
3. Trade for Alex Smith.
I am for option:
2. If they identify someone who they believe in. ( I like Tyler Wilson)
3. If Smith were available for trade and it was reasonable. Meaning a second rounder in 2014, or a third rounder this coming year. Then yes.
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Legend
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I do not remember one person who as a professional in the NFL involved in player evaluation either currently or in the past not believe that Andrew Luck and RG3 were going to be great QB's.
....have the potential to be great qb's. A team that needs a talent infusion doesn't give 3 first rounders + for potential.
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Obviously Washington thought so
The same Washington that paid out the nose for Albert Haynesworth, Clinton Portis and gave up draft picks for Donovan McNabb. You're ticked because we didn't outbid a notorious outbidding failure of an owner?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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It is a gauge of what GM's thought of his talent level when leaving college for the pros.
Irrelevant.
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And it determines his contract value.
Irrelevant. (Though you admitted that.)
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However, Alex Smith was just given an a 3 year extension at $8 mil or so.
Just for clarification:
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Smith's projected cap figures for the three years of his contract are $9.25 million in 2012, $9.75 million in 2013, and $8.75 million in 2014
Link
Whoever wants Smith will likely wait till he is cut, then try and sign him.
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In my opinion Alex Smith is a better option at QB than Weeden.
We know.
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If the options are:
1. Play Weeden next year.
2. Draft a QB in the first round
3. Trade for Alex Smith.
Why are there only three options? Other QB's that might be available: Mike Vick, Matt Flynn, Matt Cassell, Ryan Fitzpatrick.
If we keep Shurmur, Alex Smith is a okay option (if it is determined that Brandon Weeden is not a better option. And if that is determined it is hard to see Shurmur keeping his job). But, it would also be scary to see what kind of checkdowns Alex Smith would be capable of under Shurmur. Smith was just fired from his job as the starting QB of the 49ers, by a coach who likes him, because it was determined a 2nd year player who has barely played is a better option. Mainly because he opens up the playbook.
If Shurmur is fired Alex Smith might not be a good option anymore. Especially under your preferred coach Ken Whisenhunt. Whisenhunt prefers to through the ball down the field, Alex Smith's strengths are short passes. That is not a match.
Smith is a good QB to have if you are looking to be average. Weeden may be a bad QB, but he also has a higher ceiling than Alex Smith. We just don't know yet.
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Legend
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Why are there only three options? Other QB's that might be available: Mike Vick, Matt Flynn, Matt Cassell, Ryan Fitzpatrick.
I don't want any of them
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Neither do I. Just pointing out the other options besides Alex Smith.
Would you want any over Alex Smith? That is a legit question.
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Legend
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Legend
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The same Washington that paid out the nose for Albert Haynesworth, Clinton Portis and gave up draft picks for Donovan McNabb. You're ticked because we didn't outbid a notorious outbidding failure of an owner?
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I'm ticked alright but the reason is because I believe that Griffin is a championship caliber quarterback and should be wearing an orange helmet.
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Just to be clear, jfanent was the one who made the Haynesworth comment, not me.
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Legend
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Umm.... Donnie Avery, 5 yrs & Reggie Wayne, 12 yrs.
Those are their starting WR's -- and their receptions and yardage leaders by a large margin.
Donald Brown, 4 yrs
Starting RB -- second in attempts behind their rookie now, but mostly because he has been nursing a knee injury.
OLine - they are not starting any rookies on their OLine, they have two 2nd year guys.
Conversely, we have Little & Gordon - both still learning how to play, one of which missed all of the mini-camps and couldn't even start to get up to speed on things until training camp. Our most experienced WR is MoMass who has missed most of the season (again), and even at that, he only has 4yrs experience.
Our RB is a rookie, who missed large parts of training camp and preseason, and is playing very injured.
They list all of 3 rookies starting for them on offense, two of which are TE's... .so, in reality, they have a QB & a TE. The rest of their offense is very experienced.
We have a rookie QB, RB, RT, and two WR's with the other primary WR's being in his 2nd year after spending his first year converting from RB to WR.
Shall I go over defense and the fact that they have guys named Freeney, Redding, Mathis, Bethea, and Geathers?
They may be young, but there is just absolutely no comparison to us, at all. None.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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I'm not willing to make excuses on their behalf.. they need to just execute..
its football.. not rocket science.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I'm not willing to make excuses on their behalf.. they need to just execute..
its football.. not rocket science.
The best fisherman isnt always the first to catch a fish.
The changing of the guard is around the corner and I believe we are/were part of a group of teams that are going to be fighting for championships over the next half decade.
Indy just shows why teams can make those leaps in only a year or 2. They have a solid foundation to build on and dont have to build the foundation to start like we did. We finally have a foundation to build upon. You can see the form of the building going up.
1 more quality draft and we are there. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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That's just blatantly untrue. They've completely overhauled the team over the past two years, without Manning on the field at all. They even lost the coach that they brought in to do the job to a life-threatening illness and have used an interim head coach (the OC) to do the job in his absence.
What are the Browns' excuses?
We score about 1 point less per game than they do, we give up 3 points less per game than they do... so what is the difference? I would argue the difference is what made Luck the consensus #1 pick in the draft and made Weeden a late 1st early 2nd type of pick... they have won a few more games late than we have...
I get that they have a lot of rookies on the team, even guys in their 2nd year but if you put our roster next to theirs, we are asking a lot more of our rookies than they are... other than Luck, are their top 2 WRs rooks and 1 year guys? What about their leading rusher? RT? Do we have a Reggie Wayne to stabilize the WR spot?
yebat' Putin
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