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Quote:
There was one player who said that Shaffer was stealing money. That's a player saying it, not some fan.
Shaffer was disrespected by most of his teammates. He is not a technician at all. He compromised the entire line. He had a big salary and didn't put in the time to improve himself.
That is a fairly revealing bit of information.
So what the hell is wrong with this guy? If your source is to be believed, it looks like Shaffer got the big contract and then got lazy. I thought one of the things we liked about him was his work ethic. We were told he worked hard coming from the undrafted ranks to work his way up to a starter. We were high on his 'potential'.
Man, this is the type of stuff I do not like reading because where I thought we would be good moving him to RT, now I almost don't even want him on the team. I cannot stand people that don't work hard. And for you to be disrespected - in any profession - you have to have some serious issues.
This is not a good sign at all.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Stats can be a uselful tool, but using stats for offensive linemen is very tricky. That's all I'll say about it. The guy made his point by using stats and if he wants to believe it........then more power to him.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I believe you. I also find the news disturbing. From what I understood he was a good character guy coming out of Atlanta. I hope he turns around his attitude. I love Tucker but I don't see him being here much longer. He has had problems with injuries and is getting old. Drafting Thomas might be more of a priority with Savage then I thought. If Tucker is the only tackle we can depend then we are in real trouble.
#gmstrong
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Easy man. Don't slit your wrists. You could choose not to believe me and then you would feel better.  Besides that..........if we draft Joe........and Sears or Blalock in the 2nd....our OL could be well on its way to being very good. I don't think there is anything the Browns could do to improve their team more than drafting Joe in rd. 1 and one of those 2 guards in rd. 2. And I am not one of those guys who say draft OL OL OL in the first 3 rds. every year. This year is different. Thomas is going to be a great LT and Sears and Blalock can be good guards in the NFL. With the addition of Steinbach and Bentley maybe coming back, this line could get real good and our skill players would finally be able to excel. Our D would be off the field more and be able to take a few more chances. We finally are in a great position to really improve this team. And relatively quickly. Oh..........I ain't asking anyone to agree w/this..........but, I've thought a lot about it and drafting Joe in rd, 1 and a G in rd. 2 is the way I pray we go.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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It's time to stop the bleeding...
And this doesn't have a damn thing to do with getting a STUD Left Tackle...It's got everything to do with getting the CRAP off the Island we've had for 8 years...And Thomas just happens to be a STUD in the making...
I'm 99% sure Thomas will be there at 3...Russell or Johnson is going #1...And Quinn is going #2 if Millen has any hair on his fat ass...Passing on a QB rated as high as Quinn for a LT is flat out IGNORANT when your QB is ANCIENT and u don't have another that even a FAN can name...
And to top it off u have a decent LT signed long term...
Go Browns!!!
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We haven't strengthened Left Guard anywhere near what ya'll think...
Enter Joe Thomas and we've SEVERELY strengthened that combo...
Your BEST lines have a LT that can stand on the Island ALONE...THAT makes your Interior that much stronger...We field a Thomas/Steinbach/Bentley left side and it may just be the BEST the NFL has seen in 20 years...
You know...........that's an excellent point.
Who the hell posted that for you, Dawg? 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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And BTW...
Much like the Jets did last year...And much like we did with the Linebackers...
I take Thomas and come right back with whoever's there from Sears and Blalock for RG...
Incredible start when u add Bentley and Steiner to the mix...
COMMIT TO THE PIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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Easy man. Don't slit your wrists.
I usually only hear that from my girlfriend on Sunday afternoons right about 1pm PST. 
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Oh..........I ain't asking anyone to agree w/this..........but, I've thought a lot about it and drafting Joe in rd, 1 and a G in rd. 2 is the way I pray we go.
I just don't see this happening unless Savage plans on treating OL this year like he did LB last year.
I think that's plausible, but I won't believe it until I see it.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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COMMIT TO THE PIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL......that should be yours, Pit's, and my signature.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I think you misunderstand...Savage wouldn't make those statements about Schaffer if he were truly playing at a Pro Bowl level...hell, Schaffer would be in the damn Pro Bowl and he wasn't even close.
I think these stats are pretty much bogus...cause if you've actually watch the games as many times over as I have, you'd see how ridiculous this "All-Pro" comparison truly is...
Other than missing my intentions, I totally agree with the rest of your assessment.
Mav, didn't miss your intentions. I re-read my post and can see that's how it came off. Sorry about that.
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All Pro
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Oh OK, I'm sorry about that. 
[color:"white"]
Go Browns
[/color]
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There was one player who said that Shaffer was stealing money. That's a player saying it, not some fan.
It was also stated by a INSIDE source that the line wasn't putting out in practice like they should have been..I posted about it..that combined with the inner power struggles going on made it impossible for the line to do anything..oh and they wouldn't have anyway cuz they lacked talent..
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Quote:
It was also stated by a INSIDE source that the line wasn't putting out in practice like they should have been..I posted about it..that combined with the inner power struggles going on made it impossible for the line to do anything..oh and they wouldn't have anyway cuz they lacked talent..
So are you saying that the line struggled because of the power struggles with Davidson/Carthon/Romeo? and if so has this been since rectified with the new coaching staff?
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j/k I can't say anything that Vers and Pit haven't already said. It's the same every year. Everyone complains about the O-line but when it's time to fix it they all think it's better to ignore and the problem will fix itself. I like the Steinbach signing as much as the next guy but one good guard does not an O-line make. If Shaffer was just decent you wouldn't here as many people saying we need Joe T. The fact is he isn't. The other fact is that I've watched Joe Thomas throughout his college career and I believe him to be the real deal. (Some may say I'm biased living in the cheese state ) He is without a doubt the safest and best pick for us in the first. If he's gone and we get someone else I'll be fine with that but if we pass on the guy that can anchor this line for the next decade then we made the biggest mistake of Phil's career as a GM and he shouldn't have a very long one.
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j/c
Let's see...we have a nothing special (at best) 7th round pick LT on a weak OL.
We might have a chance to pick a franchise LT with the 3rd overall pick.
hmmm...what should we do?
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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but one good guard does not an O-line make.
Your logic is good I think, mmm
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I can't say anything that Vers and Pit haven't already said. It's the same every year. Everyone complains about the O-line but when it's time to fix it they all think it's better to ignore and the problem will fix itself.
Just playing Devil's Advocate here. I haven't heard one person say that the OL should be ignored.
It's more of a question of do we want to address it with Thomas in round 1, a guard in round 2, or both?
Both sounds great, in fact, it sounds fantastic. But the huge problem is our corner situation is an absolute mess, probably worse than any other unit we have (and that's saying a lot considering how bad our OL and DL are). We still have to address the other side of the trenches too with DL.
Then there's the whole QB debate, but that's for a topic all to itself.
I see us doing one or the other. It's Thomas in the first, or a guard in the 2nd. Maybe we'll get a 3rd or 4th round guard somewhere. I don't know.
I'll be pissed if we don't get some day one OL though.
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I never said that Shaffer was the next Tony Bosselli, but he's not Mandarich either. I actually found myself complaining about him during the games too. My point in showing the stats was that he is not the worst player on the team. In my opinion. Again as I stated "statistically" speaking he holds his own. Doesn't give up alot of sacks and wasn't called for as many penalties as it seems. I do feel that we need an upgrade at the position, but do we do it with that high of a draft pick? We can upgrade in round 2 with Joe Staley or trade back into the twenties and pick up Levi Brown if he happens to make it that far. Quote:
I know for a fact that he asked for help on almost every play. People like saying Andruzzi negatively impacted Shaffer, but it was actually the other way around. And I'm not defending Joe, because he was awful too.
There was one player who said that Shaffer was stealing money. That's a player saying it, not some fan.
Shaffer was disrespected by most of his teammates. He is not a technician at all. He compromised the entire line. He had a big salary and didn't put in the time to improve himself.
That's intersting to know. The teammates know more about a player than any of us fans.
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He is slow out of the stance and doesn't really have a good knee bend. His lateral movement to the left is very poor. He relies on his hands way too much and often reaches for defenders instead of moving his feet and sealing the defender off. He plays too upright and doesn't get his chest over his thighs as well as he should. He has pretty good strength, but his poor technique compromises his strength. He needs to be moved from the LT spot and it would be best if we actually part ways w/the guy.
A fair analysis. Not sure if we have to part ways with him, but if he is replaced he should probably have the option to restructure his contract before he is cut outright.
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Now..........go ahead and ignore my points and launch another personal attack.
I never personally attacked you!
What I said was that you spew alot of negativity for someone who is so passionate about the Brown's. You constantly second guess the organization and trash talk our own players. I suggested that you try to be more positive in your outlook and trust the people in the organization.
Never made a personal "ATTACK" . Can't say the same for you. When you respond to me more often than not you tell me where to go and what to do when I get there with a usual censored word or two.
To me that's making it personal. 
You have your personal reasons for wanting to pick Thomas. I wouldn't mind having him just not at 3.
We have other glaring needs at skill positions. I know you get the accessoris after you build the line, but if all goes right we won't be picking this high for quite some time. You don't often get a chance at players who are game changers further down in the draft. I feel Quinn ( because he played in the spotlight his whole career,and put up some damn fine numbers and performances while at it. Was mentored for the last 2 years by one of the best offensive minds we had in the NFL so he should have a minimal learning curve. Appears to have the same drive as Frye and has better tools to work with.) or Peterson (because he has the total package. Been a long time since we had a good quality RB that defenses have to respect.) will have a bigger impact on this team. Especially if we still get one of the other mentioned tackles. 
Last edited by RoadDawg; 03/25/07 06:47 AM.
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All you guys that want Thomas in the 1st better hope that Phil signs Carr pronto.  Otherwise, there could be more than a few slit wrists around here.
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All you guys that want Thomas in the 1st better hope that Phil signs Carr pronto.
Why???
Signing Carr is a very good idea...Again eliminates a NEED...I sign Carr and take Thomas...End of story...
But why would anyone get bent outta shape if we don't sign Carr and end up with Quinn or even Russell at 3???
Franchise QB's are number one on every NFL teams list...WHY would we get bent not taking Thomas in leau of a Franchise QB???
Go Browns!!!
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I'm not going to slit my wrists in any event...but I do not view Quinn OR Russel as "Franchise QBs".
The top of this year's class? Yes. Franchise QBs? No.
Too much risk...too much money...too many other needs.
But as soon as we draft one, I will be their biggest fan.
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I'm not one of the "you guys" you referred to.
If you read my posts you would see that.
I am of the thought of getting your franchise QB or RB while we have a shot at one at 3.
I would like to have an upgrade at left tackle but not a no. 3 pick.
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Signing Carr is a very good idea...Again eliminates a NEED...I sign Carr and take Thomas...End of story...
I could possibly live with that, but FA Carr, 1st Peterson, 2nd Staley, 3rd Beekman- I like that better!
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My point in showing the stats was that he is not the worst player on the team. In my opinion.
Again as I stated "statistically" speaking he holds his own.
And I didn't berate you for having that opinion, did I? I think using stats for an offensive lineman is bogus, but I didn't criticize you. Instead, I provided some insight and my own personal evaluation of him as a LT.
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I never personally attacked you!
LOL..........this is the first time you haven't attacked me. I make my comments on a topic and you come in, blast me, and ignore the topic. It's like you are a stalker.
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Never made a personal "ATTACK" . Can't say the same for you. When you respond to me more often than not you tell me where to go and what to do when I get there with a usual censored word or two.
So you are the guy who whined to the refs. That "censored" word sure is hurtful. Sorry pal, but attacking someone's credibility and character is much more hurtful than cussing at him.......at least in my world.
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I feel Quinn ( because he played in the spotlight his whole career,and put up some damn fine numbers and performances while at it. Was mentored for the last 2 years by one of the best offensive minds we had in the NFL so he should have a minimal learning curve. Appears to have the same drive as Frye and has better tools to work with.) or Peterson (because he has the total package. Been a long time since we had a good quality RB that defenses have to respect.) will have a bigger impact on this team. Especially if we still get one of the other mentioned tackles.
I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. I think I've explained why I disagree, so I won't bore everyone again w/the same rhetoric.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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So you are the guy who whined to the refs.
No Vers he wasn't. I saw the post in the Ref's forum. I'm not going to repeat who said it but it was not him.
#gmstrong
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Sorry pal, but attacking someone's credibility and character is much more hurtful than cussing at him.......at least in my world.
Questioning someone's integrity or credibility isn't against the rules, but profanity and masked profanity is Your perception or "hurtful" pointing to the contrary is irrelevant.
The individual that "whined" to the Refs was correct in doing so.
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Yeah vers, smarten the up.  You can't even mask profanity these days....
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Then there's the whole QB debate, but that's for a topic all to itself.
I was waiting for your post, spouting off about a QB.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Now post the LG next to those tackles, Andruzzi is probably the worst, Steinbach was such a great pickup.
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
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When you lack the "skill set" to play LT,who's beside you won't help your skill set. Ala Shaffer.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Your perception or "hurtful" pointing to the contrary is irrelevant.
Irrelevant to whom? Are your rules supposed to shape what we believe in as human beings?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Your perception or "hurtful" pointing to the contrary is irrelevant.
Irrelevant to whom? Are your rules supposed to shape what we believe in as human beings?
Just let it go man.
Not that I agree or disagree with you...
but..
Trust me, if you are right or wrong is irrelevant.
I know from experience.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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No, but they sure as heck shape how people behave here ... with complete disregard for their personal beliefs as their personal beliefs have absolutely zero bearing on how things are done.... thus "irrelevant".
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Quote:
Quote:
Then there's the whole QB debate, but that's for a topic all to itself.
I was waiting for your post, spouting off about a QB.
But I never did
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Are you enjoying yourself? How about we stick to football? Ref 2 already addressed this issue w/me in a private message. He/She didn't feel the need to publically flex his/her muscles.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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He/she didn't bring it up in here either, neither did Ref00
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Another great football post.
You wanna add anything about Shaffer and whether we need a replacement? It's amazing how many people would rather concentrate on board personalities rather than football on these boards.
And if you want me gone, PPE...........just say so. No sweat........
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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So are you saying that the line struggled because of the power struggles with Davidson/Carthon/Romeo? and if so has this been since rectified with the new coaching staff?
They struggled because of that power play that was going on..
They struggled because of no continuity..
They struggled because they lacked talent..
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I find it hard to believe that Walter Jones gave up 10 sacks.
I don't know, how many times did we see a defender walk casually while sipping a MaiTai right through the middle of the line, and give Droughns a dirty look to make him kneel down? Our guards gave up alot of sacks.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shaffer's numbers compared to
ProBowl tackles
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