DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Roster today and where/how to upgrade

While watching the year unfold and seeing growth from so many young players, I find myself thinking about the roster we have now and a lot less about our record.

I’ve been asking fellow Browns fans their thoughts on the roster. The discussion always ends up with the question: “What position(s) is our most important to upgrade for next year?”

I don’t want to make this a “draft thread”…but rather a discussion about the position we should upgrade – FA or draft – and less about which player fills that need along with HOW we can expect to fill the need.

I’ve done this thread before…but man-o-man have things changed these past many weeks?

QB – I’m good with the QBs for next year. I think McCoy is under contract for another year. I’m concerned about Weeden, but he easily gets another year by me. I highly doubt we use any pick here.

RB – I’m good with Richardson and Hardesty along with Obi. I think B Jax is gone. I could see us drafting a RB to develop in the later rounds. I don’t see how Marecic makes the team next year…I don’t think Smelly is the answer at FB…but at least we will get to see now. I hope he is. Maybe we draft a FB very late?

TE – This may be a problem next year. Watson isn’t young anymore but is still pretty good. Cameron seemed to be coming on…then pfft. Smith is busy playing FB. I think we COULD let this position ride for one more year. I won’t be at all surprised if we try to upgrade this position. The thing about an upgrade is that to truly UPGRADE we’d need to use a higher pick (rd 1 or 3) or get a FA. We have the depth…just not the stud. I can see a guy here in Rd 3.

WR – We have our two starters now…couldn’t say that a month ago with much conviction. I doubt we use a high pick (rd 1 or 3) on a WR and if we get a FA, it needs to be a slot guy. I don’t like the idea of getting a vet and moving Little to the slot. So…slot choices are MoMass, Norwood, Cribbs, Cooper, Benjamin or someone new. I think we will use a later pick (4-5-6) on a WR.

OL – We need a backup T…and some say a new starting G. I dunno. To really upgrade thru the draft, we’d have to do so early. Maybe we’d use a 3rd rder…but I highly doubt it. We may go big and/or little in FA to find a new starter at G…which moves a recent starter to backup. As for backup T? Who knows?

K – We need to re-up Phil.

P – I’d like an upgrade…we won’t be drafting a P in rounds 1-4…probably at all. Maybe a 6 or 7…maybe we keep Hodges and hope he gets better another year removed from the injury.

LS – Yount is doing fine.

I don’t think we will use a 1st or 3rd on any of the above positions. I can see a later pick for depth at RB and WR…and possibly an OL.

DL – I like the DL as constructed. If we don’t use a 1st or 3rd here, I think we go with what we’ve got…unless Heckert finds a Billy Winn type DE later in the draft. Here’s the deal…we have very good starters and very good depth…it would be silly to expect that a later round guy can make the 53 at DL. Any new guy for the 53 almost HAS to be a starter…which means RDE…which will require the 1st or 3rd pick. I don’t see us pursuing a pricy FA here. Parker and Rucker are doing well here and Stephens looked good before the injury.

People won’t like it…but I will not be surprised if we go with what we have here for another year. I hear the draft is deep at pass rushing DE…but to be better than what we’ve got, I think requires an early Rd investment.

LB – I’m not impressed with any of them. However, we have a ton of depth guys. The only guy I’d pick with our 1st is Teo…which might push out DQ…which isn’t necessary right now. I’d have a hard time using our 1st or 3rd on darn near ANY outside LB in the 4-3 and we do not need to replace DQ so badly that we’d burn our 1st or 3rd. I think FA is a better spot for finding an upgrade here if we feel we MUST upgrade.

CB – It’s all about S Brown and D Patterson. I think Brown is finished as a starter and D Patterson still does not look like a bonafide #2 CB – and is a FA after this year. We have a lot of good, young depth guys…but we need another starter and our depth guys are probably not “there” yet. I do not see both of those guys on the 53 next year.

This is where we target our 1st Rd pick. We need this position moreso than RDE and the only way we get a true upgrade is thru the draft…and early. I suppose we could go FA for a starter and I’d like that…I just doubt it happens. If we keep Brown/Patterson and draft a CB in the 1st, we will have good depth here along with Joe and a new 1st Rdr as starters.

S – I wish we could get a FA starter at FS…but I doubt it happens. Gipson has played well…at least well for a UDFA…he’s a good backup at a minimum. Here again, we “might” have a starter in Gipson or Young or Haag…maybe not…but we’ve certainly got depth. I doubt a late rd pick improves the FS position. We will need to use an earlier pick if we truly want to upgrade…or go FA – which I don’t like here. I think we use our 3rd Rd pick here if not at TE.

I don’t know who should be the backup SS…but it can’t be Ventrone anymore.

I’m curious what others think. I think it’s interesting to debate the positions and best-options to actually FIND the upgrade.

Playoff talk and offseason talk, ah to be a Browns fan.

Good post tho.

Agree with most of it.

Biggest thing is who will be calling the shots, if it stays Heckert (as it should) then I think the following, if it changes then they could go in totally different philosophy with totally different needs.
Also assumes no trades during draft to get a 2nd or additional picks.
Not going to get too specific on who I would draft (name-wise) just positionally.

QB - Good with Weeds and Colt for another year, although Colt is a FA in 2014, so after next season, and could see us draft a guy late to develop as a 3rd QB and eventual #2.

RB - I see a mid to late rounder getting picked, or another FA pickup (or both, but most likely only 1 of them makes the final 53 next year.

FB - Have to see what Smelley does. A Smith brings a nice attitude, but can't see him being the 'solution' we want there, so another late round is probable, unless we go FA route.

WR - Possible we get a mid to late rounder again to add speed and replace Cribbs (FA this offseason along with MoMass). Not eager to see them go, but always gotta try to upgrade.

TE - Watson is a FA, so is Alex Smith, leaving just Jordan. Could see us using the 3rd there, or signing a nice FA, possibly both. Bringing back A Smith also, if he makes final 53 no idea.

OL - Another tackle/guard player in mid to late rounds would be a good pick. Possible FA target here depending on how comfortable they are with Pinkston's blood clot.

K - Resign Phil!

LS - Yount is a FA also I believe, but should be resigned.

P - Hodges is also a FA, would like an upgrade here, I think his achilles injury is holding him back, but could see us drafting a new P with one of our last 3 picks (assuming a comp pick in there). Only draft name I will throw out there right now, but not the only punter I'd consider drafting... Quinn Sharp, [kicks and punts for OkStU, so he could handle KO duties for Phil if necessary and even act as backup. Only concern he hasn't a lot of experience being a holder]

DE - Parker is a FA, signed a 1 year deal. Possible to bring him back, but I would like to see us draft at least one DE early (1st or 3rd), and perhaps another later. A FA de is another option, but they would sign knowing they are likely a backup.

DT - Don't see the need to draft here, got great depth and production out of Rubin, Taylor, Winn and Hughes.

OLB - All depends on Gocongs recovery on how I would address this position. Assuming (cause thats all we can do right now) that he comes back 100% I would still draft one in mid to late rounds (4/5/6). Maiava is a FA, I would resign him, but with little in guarantees that he makes the final 53.

ILB - A back up to DQ is possible, Fort does a decent job on special teams, but if someone falls down into our laps late in the draft then sure, otherwise I wouldn't be actively targeting this as a high priority.

CB - Another starter opposite Haden is imperative. Brown is a FA, would bring him back at a team friendly price, also with no guarantee he makes final 53, but I would like to see us get a young Cb from the draft in either the 1st or 3rd rounds.

S - Ward is solid, Hagg, Gipson, and Young are OK, mostly as backups, but we must find a FS. Fortunately Ventrone is a FA this year, would resign him as depth for TC and his special teams play, but would be actively looking for someone to take his roster spot.
I go after a FA strong if any are available (I know some that are 'scheduled' to be FA's but their teams may not let them get there. Drafting one high isn't on my 'best case' list, but if that was all we could do (because all the good FA's are gone) then I could go either way on early drafting one. Not thrilled with the idea, but wouldn't rail against it.

QB. Really depends on what Banner deems at the end of the year with Weeden. Can he take you to the playoffs? McCoy I would be surprised if he is not around next year. He's inexpensive,but also cheap to cut. Would not be surprised if the Browns took a QB in the draft that can make plays equally with his legs.

RB/FB. They are set at RB. Marecic gives you alot of nothing. They can get a FB without spending a 4th RD pick.

O-line. They Browns need to spend a high pick on a OG. They got by with bargin bid specials. Now its time to really upgrade. Greco has value in spot duty.
Lavaou isn't going to get better. He's reached his peak.
They need a OG that can get out and pull, get to the 2nd level.

WR. I think they are in solid shape. Maybe get a WR in FA or Draft that is a precise route runner.

TE. Huge need here. They have no TE that can draw a double team or that drive a LB or DE backwards. a TE that can threaten the middle of the field makes your offense that much better. Cameron isn't progressing,but thats no surprise.
Watson isn't getting younger.

D-line. They need to find 2 pass rushers. Sheard isn't showing growth as a pass rusher. He will never be a double digit sack guy.
In a 4-3 defense, the taller your DE's are,the better.

LB . alot of youth here. But is there any consistant playmakers? They need a LB that can set a tone on the field.

CB. you can't have too many CBs. They need a more physical bigger framed CB that can come up and play the run.

S. If you are starting Eric Hagg at any point,that is a issue.

QB: Weeden gets another year as does Colt.

RB: good enough

FB: no true blocking FB. Can get one later in the draft or FA.

TE: Watson could be re-signed as he is still doing fine.but there are several TEs coming out that are potential impact players.

WR: looking good for the 1st time in years.

OL: good enough. When Pinkston returns, so does legit depth.

DL: half decent. Could pick a RDE high in the draft and dominate the LOS.

LB:serviceable, but not outstanding. One more player could get this unit into VG status.

CB: Brown is not a stiff, just aging. Since it takes a season for a CB to develop, the team may invest in a CB high.

S: need an impact FS. We have back-ups playng there now.

K: Phil can't last forever, can he? Give him a 2 year contract.

P: unsure at this time. Not as much of a priority as position players.

KR/PR: Cribbs may be let walk.

OK ... here's my list:

QB: I like the pair of Weeden and McCoy.

RB: Richardson, Hardesty, Ogbonnaya, and Jackson is probably as good as most teams in the NFL

FB: Not sure we need one.

WR: Gordon and Little make a strong starting pair. Benjamin can be effective in matchup situations. I like both Norwood and Cooper. I do wonder if Massaquoi will be back. He has slipped to 3rd place, and a distant third at that. He can be effective in matchups, as he showed against Oakland. I do think that he will wind up being replaced this coming year, unless he signs a really team friendly deal.

TE: Watson seems to have been rejuvenated, but I wonder how long that will last. He'll be 32 next year. Smith is getting up there . Cameron looks like he's got potential, but beyond him I see real need here.

OL: Looks good. Pinkston and Miller can battle it out for starting spots next year, and may the best men win. I like our depth here.

DL: Man, there is a lot to really, really like here. I would like this group even more with a ferocious pass rusher on the edge. I think that this should be a priority.

LB: I really like this group. JMJ, DQ, and Robertson look like a quality starting corps. They have speed, and are sure tacklers. I like them a lot. I would like to see them grow together.

DB: Another top flight CB would always be good, no matter who you have. I would really love to see us find an exceptional FS as well. This is hard to find though.

So .... I would look for a TE (or 2) a WR, a pass rushing DE, a CB and a S.

If I had to pick my priorities, I would go with a DE, TE, and S. I think that's very doable between the draft and free agency.

I'll play.

QB: Weeden and McCoy stay

RB: TR, Hardesty, Obi

FB: I think Smith is doing well

TE: Re-sign Watson for a 3 year deal, keep Cameron, pick up a rookie in the 4th or 5th

WR: Keep the crew.

OL: Good. I'd pick up a late round OG

DL: DTs look good, I'd go RDE in the 3rd.

LB:If there's a shot at Te'o, we trade up to get him if he doesn't fall. I really feel he helps to elevate this D into elite status. He's the kind of player you saccrifice future draft picks for.

CB: Agree that Brown's replacement is needed. Don't know where it's coming from.

S: FS is needed. If we can get Brown's replacement, maybe he can move over? I think Brown would excell in that role.

K: Dawson deserves a 4 year lucrative contract, the man is money.

P: UFA pickup.

KR/PR: I don't think Cribbs takes a pay cut. Benjamin takes over his duties.

Ok I'll put my GM cap on. PM me Joe if interested.

My top priority would be RDE and it would definitely come from Round 1 of the draft. There are quite a few top tier prospects but Damontre Moore is the one that I've been looking at right now. I'm not impressed with Bjoern Werner in the one game I caught against Florida.

My second priority would actually be WR and it would definitely come from Free Agency. Again there are quite a few top tier free agents but Greg Jennings would be my top target. Why? He's actually probably on the backside of his career but he knows the Z position as well as anyone and that could move Little into the slot where he'd be most effective. Gordon X, Jennings Z and Little slot would be killer.

If I could add a ball hawking center fielder I'd do it in a heartbeat. Bacarri Rambo is being mocked in the third round. Maybe he could be the guy. He was touted as that kind of prospect previously.

I'd add a very good free agent LG. Move Greco back to the bench and I think that make the OL complete. Hopefully see more growth from Lauvao or look to replace with a draft pick in 2014.

Roll with the TEs we have and draft one late.

Maybe find a FA FB if Smelley doesn't pan out.

Draft a LB late. Draft our new Kicker and Punter late if need be. Dawson is not being franchised. If he wants to be here on a nice contract he will be if not he's probably finishing his career with the Texans and that's ok.

Oh and get someone to move Skrine off the team. I'm tired of watching that cat chase his tail on Sundays. Coach up the pups, get a FA, whatever.

Roll with the QBs we have and pray that Weeden grows into the role. What did Rodgers say...it took about three years to get it? Let's hope he starts truly getting it mid season next season. Ramp it up in the offseason Weeden!

Nice thread Willie....makes me want to play

QB I don't see any studs available where we will draft...probably around 12th...and I also think Weeden needs his 2nd year. I stand pat.

RB I like what we have. maybe you take a flyer on some flyer late in the draft, but mostly a pick at this position is a wasted pick that won't make the team.

WR I like our young group. I wouldn't look to FA or the draft. I think we can work with what we have.

TE A big problem. Watson is decent but nearing the end. Cameron shows potential but for whatever reason can't find the field often enough...probably because he can't block well enough...a reason that might make me give him a look in the slot.

This is a position that deserves some draft attention and or FA attention. I am not sure if any prospects are woth a 1st rounder, but I would think a 3rd rounder might be used.

FB Who cares? If we need a fullback, draft the starting LG from Mt. Union. We don't even have to know his name.

DL.. Edge rusher is important. We could use our 1st rounder on a DE.

LB..again, a edge rushing backer would work.

CB....my target for the 1st pick. Dixon and Minnifield made our D the last time we had a good D. We have half the combo now and know how he impacts our ability. Add a top corner and watch what we have get way better overnight.

S A pretty good group. I'd look at FA to address this position, though Gipson is making the need less every time I watch him play.

K Keep Dawson. He needs to retire a Cleveland Brown. The guy has 2-3 years left.

P Drop Hodges. We had our punter last camp in Spencer Lanning but opted for the vet. Bring Lannig back and let him punt the next 8 years.

KR go all in with Benji and anyone else we might draft and let Cribbs walk. I wish we had switched him to safety 4-5 years back and we wouldn't be talking about safety, but I am afraid it's a little late for that at this point.

I'll make this short,, We need to find someone that scares people like Haden does on the other side. I'm not knocking Brown, for his age, the man is (of late) doing very well. Amazing in fact. Nice picks and the tip on sunday was great.. what a break. But he's no spring chicken. So we need a guy to put over there as good Haden.

We probably need another safety and another LB. I like Richardson, JMJ and of course DQ, but you can't have enough depth there.

DE is another need. We need someone as good as Sheard on the other side. young and coming type guy.

OL depth later in the draft, maybe a RB later in the draft, maybe another receiver later in the draft or maybe FB later in the draft.

Not this year, but next, TE becomes an issue. Not sure we could find another Watson in FA next year but that would be fun to try.

Reading all of these, I just have to note:

When's the last time we were all playing this game at this time of year and we all had the same general consensus that there are this few holes, and most of our holes can be filled in the Draft and we have very little NEED to dip into Free Agency??!!??

It's never happened since The Return.
Heckert did it. We're not rebuilding anymore, we're Built.


Sure, we have weak spots - every roster does.... but, overall, we have few glaring spots in dire need of upgrade.
As long as Haslam & Banner don't go mucking it up, we're looking to take a HUGE step forward this offseason, folks, because we've reached the stage where we are rounding out the roster and setting up to simply reload down the line.

This is good. I agree with most sentiments concerning a RDE need but I think we would take a different path towards it depending on how the cards fall.

Aside from the Weeden panic this year, I think we draft BPA more often than not in the first round. IF there is a better prospect that DE where we're drafting (hopefully we're in the teens) we take them. Then in the 3rd-5th round I think we get a pass rushing specialist. This would allow us to resign our current DEs and allow us to fill a hole AND get whichever player is best available.

I like the signing of Jennings suggested by those above, I would be hugely concerned with his calf/hammy and if he didn't take what was offered I wouldn't worry. See if we can convince MoMass to resign reasonably and I'm happy with those 3.

We need to sign a big FB if Smelly doesn't look the run blocking part. Bringing Vickers back would be wonderful though it'd never happen. I think Trich needs a big FB to clear that 1 LB that always seems to grab him.

In the draft, I'd key on S and TE. Ideally, we'd trade back to get a late first and regain a 2nd rounder. That probably wouldn't happen tho. I think we're missing the new breed of TE this league has found and our center fielder. That could be found later in the draft when we have picks but if there is a Gronk 2.0 I think we grab them in the 1st.

My dream is Teo in the first, Safety in the 3rd, TE/DE/G/T in the 4-6 range. That with a few free agency signings would go a long way.

Tho, if they blow it all up, I might become a Bills fan

I'll play, too:


Positions I stand-pat on: QB, RB, TE, DT


FB: Depends on Smelley. We run the WCO, so a standard blocking FB doesn't fit the bill, so it is something we need to address.

WR: I like Heldawg's idea of Greg Jennings, but that probably isn't very doable.... and I'm not sure how Little in the slot would be, anyway. I do like a lot of our other guys and think that a combination of Benjamin & Cooper can grow into the Jennings type of player. I think that we COULD just roll along with what we have and bring in a bunch of UDFA's to look at in camp - if we have Gordon & Little as #1 & #2, then we just need slot types, and there should be an abundance of them out there.

TE: Re-sign Watson and let it roll. At most, unless a super-stud TE falls into our laps during the Draft, look at some UDFA's in camp.

OL: Depending upon what they determine our running woes to be caused by, stand pat here - bring in guys to build depth. Maybe burn a late round pick on a Guard.

DL: Only reason I do anything here is if we can get a monster at DE. Aside from that, I like this whole group.

LB: This is where I want a major upgrade. Te'o, or whatever his name is. Get him. Between him and DQ, let the best man take the middle and the other work on the outside.

CB: I want a 2nd monster at CB opposite Joe. I don't care how. Love how Sheldon has been playing this year, but he's getting older... have to plan for the future.

FS: I want a Polamalu/Reed type FS. Period.


If we have two very good CB's, a ball hawking FS that the QB has to account for at all times, and two above average LB's... our DLine will have a field day every day. This D becomes for the next decade what the Ravens D used to be.


Beyond the above, I would simply look at who is available and whether or not they make us better than what we have. We're ridiculously young with a good distribution of talent throughout the roster. We're a pretty solid group.

My turn.


Offense:

Qb - We need better Qb play. Hopefully that comes from Weeden as there is no significant upgrade in the draft and not much that looks to be available in FA.

Rb/FB - I think that we are set here. Depending on what role they coaches want from the FB. Personally I wish we had a bruiser. I really liked Clutts.

Wr - Gordon and Little are money. Benjamin will have a role. The bottom of the Wr squad is up for grabs. I would still like to adda veteran Wr. Not a big splash but a guy like Donald Driver. He can help the development of the young guys, provide solid reliable depth. He won't be expensive and will know his role. Then fill in with Cooper, Norwood, Cribbs or whoever else we have. Possibly MoMass but I think that he is gone. Possibly a middle round draft pick.

OL - We can upgrade OG. Not sure who will be available in FA. We definitely need to upgrade at backup OT.


Defense:

DL - A pass rushing RDE would be nice. It would need to come through the draft.

LB - I am okay with where we are at with our Lb's though it migh be easier to find a rush OLB rather than a pass rushing DE.

DB - I am okay with our corners when healthy. Haden is more than solid. I like Patterson as a #2 Cb. Brown/Skrine/Wade/Bademosi as 3-6 is okay. I would not be opposed to adding another guy. Even a high (1st round) Cb. Especially if Patterson leaves. Safety, yikes. We need help. Gipson has been a pleasant surprise but we need starting improvement and increased depth. Unfortunately I don't see much in the draft and don't envision much in free agency.


Special Teams:

LS is set. I would have Benjamin as our full time punt returner. I would like to keep Cribbs as our cover guru and KR. Will he be cost prohibitive? Punter - For as much crap as Hodges gets around here he has not been bad. Not great but not horrible. Upgrade? Certainly if possible. Especially if we can do it with a younger cheaper alternative. I would be okay with keeping the status quo at punter. Now for the most difficult decision in my mind. I love Dawson and his reliability. But his age is getting up there as is his salary. I would love to keep him around but if I could get Dustin Hopkins FSU I might consider a change. Not sure where I would draft him. Definitely round 7, probably round 6. Deep year at K. There are several other guys coming out that should be pretty good too. Not sure if I would try to sign any of them as an UDFA. Guess it all depends on what we can do with Dawson's contract.

Well, it's coming. Might as well brace yourselves for it.

I can see Weeden bring replaced as well and that being the catapult to get rid of Heckert since he drafted Weeden.

As for the roster, we absolutly need RDE, CB, TE, FS. If we can hit on two of three of these in the draft, that would be sick. And btw, I really like Jackson in the middle so while Te'o is tempting I just don't see the need.

Hel, love the Jennings idea. That would be sick.

I'll go with what I think would make the biggest positive impact and let everything else go at this point.
Much like Peen, we need another edge rusher.

Last year told our oponents that Sheard is a beast. But now that they know that, they simply key on him. I really like our rotation there and all the talk about us being able to "do much better and should have explored better options than Parker and Rucker" have been laid to rest in my mind. I liked those signings and feel both upgraded our rotation.

But we do need Player X as another true threat at pass rushing. Between player X and Sheard, they wouldn't be able to stop them both.

CB is something we will need to address. While Brown has shown he can still play the game, having another top flight CB and moving Brown to the nickel would be HUGE in the secondary!

Our O is very young and in reality we only seriously addressed the O in one draft and using the second round pick from the upcoming draft. So I believe we leave this unit in tact and see how it progresses. We can look at those needs depending on their progress next year in 2014. With one real acception. We need a G who CAN run block! People seem to be blaming TRich for the fact he has no holes to run through.

What I see as draft priorities are... (and in no particular order.....

DE (pass rusher)
CB (opposite Haden)
LB (run stopper/pass rusher)
G (Mauling run blocker)
FB ( We really need a good lead blocker)
TE ( Watson is ageing and Cameron simply isn't enough depth at the position.)

I do believe that the three defensive positions are the most critical here. I don't see drafting a TE as replacing Watson, just adding much better depth. The only real upgrade I see a need for on O is G and FB at this time.

My only comments are:

Why not move Sheldon to S? He's slowed down a tick, but I don't wanna lose his experience.

Draft RDE and CB. Get the best G in FA money can buy. Keep Heckert.

While I have been impressed with Sheldon's instincts this year, I just don't think he has the range to play safety.

I think this is Sheldon's last year.

Rish.. sorry.. I added to my comment before I saw your response. I think we can put off the S ned for now. I honestly think Sheldon can fill that role for the next year or so.. would allow us to concentrate on greater needs.

And we can use the exp of Haden, TJ and Sheldon to bring along that new CB I wanna get.

Well, if thats the case then I think we need to move on. No matter what happens to him, I favor drafting CB.

I still say drafting a CB and moving Brown to the nickel position would be a win/win for everyone. He still has a lot of skill and is crafty.

I just feel his ability to cover man on man on the edge is diminishing.

J/C

I think it is safe to say most feel CB and DE are the two positions that would most help the team.

Just a quick look ahead to the draft shows a bunch of nice DE's to choose from but only Milner of Alabama and Banks of Miss St are 1st round corners.

My thought is to go get a corner in FA if any are available...a big if as teams don't usually let them go without a fight. If we wait for the draft, we might get snookered. I view corners like I do QB's. If you aren't going to draft them in round 1, you are banking on dumb luck they turn in to a plus player. It just doesn't happen often with corners since their skill set is easy for scouts to read. You can cover and play the position well, or you can't. Not a whole lot left for projection. Guys can flop out, but you don't find many who go from the 4th round to the pro-bowl.

I differ from most on the front office issue. While I am happy with Heck and even beginning to warm up to Shurmer, I don't think a change is a automatic bad thing, so I am not going to go all nuts if a change is made.

The reason is we do have some players and this won't be a total blow-up. The new guy as an example isn't going to totally purge the roster.

A change in scheme doesn't really impact the O, and might actually help. As an example, I feel Weeden would do much better playing in the gun more often.

It might hurt the D is we went 3-4 again, but we need some edge backers anyway and I think we have some flexibility with our linemen that wouldn't preclude them from being solid in a change of scheme.

Again, I am not calling for a change in Heckert, but if it happens I don't see it as all doom and gloom.

JMO

I like Weeden for at least another year. He's shown improvement and there is not a clear cut guy out there any better... Don't say NO to Michael Vick.... say HELL NO!!

RB and WR are fine (Never thought I'd be saying that about our WRs after about week 4)

TE is ok but a really good every down TE could do wonders for us.

I love the OL in pass protection, still looking for a little more push on run plays, would consider an OG.

DL is set

LB corps is good but could use a a really good pass rushing OLB.

Secondary, could use a corner and FS

I want to hear the tune being played after these next three games, but right now I think we're looking to strengthen our depth on offense and would go back to defense as the focus of the draft.

I'd like to see a Guy like Jonathan Banks at CB or a Sam Montgomery at DE in the first round.

Pick up a FS like TJ MacDonald or Kenny Vacaro in the 3rd, or maybe a OLB like Sean Porter.

Wouldn't mind picking up Landry Jones to develop if he were to fall far enough for us to grab.

TE, maybe FA. FB, who knows. WR, FA, maybe, but doubtful. OL, tweaking at depth. DL tweaking at depth depending on contracts.

Jarvis Jones if he's there.

Dee Milliner if he's not.

I do agree that we need a CB more than a LB, but I think Jones is the best player in the draft.


To be completely honest, I'm not impressed with any of the guys coming out this year. Ideally, I'd LOVE to trade back and pick up an extra first for next year.

Perhaps the Jets run off 3 in a row here and make the playoffs, but decide to still give up on the Sanchez experiment and wanna come up for a QB.

Trade back into the 20's, grab Xavier Rhodes and pick up a first for next year.


Pipe dream, but it's December, I'm allowed pipe dreams.

Just to help out, for information purposes only, here are the current slate of 'scheduled' free agents currently on the active roster, or IR. (This is what I came up with at the start of the season).

Brandon Jackson, RB
Eddie Williams, FB (restricted FA (RFA))
Ben Watson, TE
Alex Smith, TE/FB
Josh Cribbs, WR
Mohammad Massaquoi, WR
Jordon Norwood, WR (RFA)
Oniel Cousins, OL
Phil Dawson, K
Christian Yount, LS (Exclusive Rights FA (ERFA))
Reggie Hodges, P
Juqua Parker, DE
Auston English, DE (ERFA)
Emmanuel Stephens, DE (ERFA)
Kaluka Maiava, OLB
Sheldon Brown, CB
Ray Ventrone, S



Figured this was as good a place as any for this list, to assist with the thread.

All of the ERFA's will be kept.

We need to start talking with ... pretty much every one of them. Austin English, Eddie Williams and Brandon Jackson are the only two that I would be concerned about in one way or another. Though, I would like to see English in camp next year.

I am assuming that we are picking in the 8 to 10 range. My primary goal would be to get our 2nd round pick back. Maybe give Hardesty more reps to try to entice a team to trade a draft pick(s).If it doesn’t work out I am fine with him on our roster.
QB – I am O.K. with Weeden. I think he is doing well for a rookie although at times I do have minor concerns but I think he can work those out.

RB – I think that teams have been going into games with the sole purpose of shutting down Richardson and making Weeden and the receivers beat them. Once we are able to do that consistently then Richardson will show more of what made him the number 3 overall.
TE – Cameron looks, to me, like he has potential. I would probably be O.K. with what we have right now and give the position another year to develop. But if we were able to draft Eifert or Ertz I would pull the trigger.
WR – I would look at veteran WRs to possibly upgrade from Mo Mass. Earlier Greg Jennings was mentioned and I would be good with that type of move. Aren’t Bowe, Welker and Amendola also available?
OL – If BPA in the draft when we pick is a guard then I’m O.K. with that.

K – Dawson.

P – I don’t really pay much attention to punters.

DL – We may have to wait on drafting a high round pass rushing DE until 2014.

LB – As another poster said. It comes down to Gocong. If he returns to form we may be able to defer the LB

CB – I think CB is a primary need. Another top CB to pair with Haden makes the Browns D one of the NFLs premier defenses.

S – Move Sheldon Brown, give some of our younger players more time to develop and bring in a mid rounder to compete.

So I look to trade down to around 23rd in exchange for amongst other things a second rounder.
1st round , 23– Tyler Eifert, Xavier Rhodes,Alex Okafor
2nd round,? - CB,TE
3rd round, DE/FS/OLB/G BPA
4th round, DE/FS/OLB/G BPA

we need improved QB play and improved OL play at run-blocking. but, these are things that I believe our youngsters can learn and develop.

as far as what I think we truly need to go out and improve from outside the team:

CB2
FS
RDE (only if we get a top10 drafted guy - otherwise roll with what we got)
OLB
TE
FB
WR (a third guy, maybe it can be Benjamin, but I think we need to add another)

It is strange to list the defensive positions ahead, but I think that is where the biggest need is at. And, we need depth in alot of places (OL especially, but pretty much everywhere) and that needs to continue to be built through every offseason.

Gonna piggy-back off of you, 'Peen, cause you're making sense.

Agree on QB's, RB's, and WR's. We already have a young developmental guy in Benji. He's a mid-round rookie who doesn't get the NFL yet. Give him another camp and time in the slot and I think he can do some damage. Norwood? Cooper? As a 4 or 5? That's as good a risk as anything.

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TE A big problem. Watson is decent but nearing the end. Cameron shows potential but for whatever reason can't find the field often enough...probably because he can't block well enough...a reason that might make me give him a look in the slot.

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There are 5 BIG upgrades from where I'm sitting, and this is one of'em.

I've been very quiet on the whole Cameron thing. I hadn't seen enough of him in college or the NFL to comment. Too many folks just see the words "athletic" and "raw" and instantly get wood and envision Gates or Jimmy Graham. Well, I've focused HEAVILY on Cameron when he's in the game. Wanna know what I see?

Not too damned much.

The guy is a pathetic blocker. I mean he is just flat-bad. That's a big reason why he can't see the field.

Watson is a one-trick pony. As a receiver he can still make plays, and in that role, I'd like to see him resigned. But he's never been even an average blocker, and that won't get better as his body tells him it doesn't want to get pushed around anymore.

Alex Smith is a poor receiver, and in spite of the undeserved reputation that he's a solid blocker, he isn't. He's playing fullback because Marisuck is a bum and Smelley wasn't ready. There have been many guys over the years here which earned this statement from me: We won't be a solid unit until someone better than this guy is starting. Alex Smith is that guy.

We have 3 TE's and not one of them can block. If we're going to become a playoff contender, we have to get better at this position. Sadly, there aren't any real good blocking TE's in free agency outside of Heath Miller, and I doubt the Steelers will let him walk.

But yes, I have a guy I've been quietly watching, and I've come to the conclusion that he's going to be a sleeper until draft day, assuming he comes out, which he should.

His name is Dion Sims, TE Michigan State. He's caught 33 passes for 451 yards this season. Those aren't eye-popping numbers, but he shows ability. The catch for me is that Sims at 6'5 goes 285 and has very strong power as a blocker. He's only a Junior but if he comes out he's going to be gone by the 3rd round, and I wouldn't mind seeing him come on-board if we gambled with him in the 2nd. That would solve the position for the future as a receiver, and as a power-blocker.

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FB Who cares? If we need a fullback, draft the starting LG from Mt. Union. We don't even have to know his name.

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If we're going to have and use a fullback, we need to find a good one. We blew it with Marisuck. Maybe Smelley can do the job. I don't know yet, but if he can't, we gotta find one somewhere.

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DL.. Edge rusher is important. We could use our 1st rounder on a DE.

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Parker has done some decent work. He's given us more than he was supposed to with Stephens flaming out. But he's going to be 36 and there isn't much left on those tires. He's still got some rush ability but has always been a liability against the run and it's getting worse. Rucker gets pushed around when teams run right at him. I focused on him in the Chiefs game and when they ran at him it was ugly. He's given us some decent work, but he isn't a full-time starter, as he gives us nothing in terms of pass-rush. Yeah, we need a true edge-rusher, and there are a bunch available in the 1st and 2nd rounds this year.

Brown is getting some love, but he's finished. He's done some work against these bad teams, but still gets beat deep and gets too many penalties. The dude simply can't run anymore and needs to be replaced. Watch what Manning does to him. That won't be Quinn or Batch out there. Gotta get a guy in free agency if possible, but the draft may be the only way to get a starter.

We gotta have a FS. Ward is what he is, which is a big hitter but a poor cover-guy. It would be nice to see him get better in that area because we need him to, but he isn't a huge concern. Replacing Young or whomever else is back there is a priority. That's a black-hole in a pass-happy league.

Last, is at least one mauling guard. Pinky got replaced by Greco who has outplayed him. That's very telling. Lauvao has made strides as a pass-blocker but he doesn't do well with combination blocks or movement. I could see a case being made that we need to spend picks on other areas, but if we REALLY want to have a good line, not just a good pass-blocking line, we have to find an elite guard to plug in somewhere. This becomes more critical when we realize that Mack, as good as he is, isn't a power-center, and Thomas is a shield-blocker in the run-game.

In a twist, I'm possibly changing my mind on our OLB's. I'm not stating that they are bonifide starters, but I'm liking what I'm seeing from Mr. Nobody Craig Robertson. If we can have a guy like Maiva continue to slowly progress, or if we get another stop-gap guy back there, I think we can focus on other positions.

We still need a lot of help, but it's promising that we're actually beating up on the bottom-feeders of the NFL right now. We used to BE those bottom-feeders. Even though we are what our record says, we're close to being an average NFL team. That doesn't sound like a compliment, but when the age of our roster is factored in, it becomes much better.

Right, but assuming a guy like Heckert stays on board, he has a track record of moving back into the second if there's a guy he really likes. Hardesty was that guy.

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His name is Dion Sims, TE Michigan State. He's caught 33 passes for 451 yards this season. Those aren't eye-popping numbers, but he shows ability. The catch for me is that Sims at 6'5 goes 285 and has very strong power as a blocker. He's only a Junior but if he comes out he's going to be gone by the 3rd round, and I wouldn't mind seeing him come on-board if we gambled with him in the 2nd.

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We don't have a 2nd round pick.

I was thinking trade down and go TE in the first but if this guy is the real deal then I would be happy with CB/DE in the late first and TE in the second. I have not heard of Dion Sims but I will check for highlights.

General Reply:

I really don't get the "We must draft an OLB" crowd.

Robertson has made steady progress since the start of the year. Maiava has also improved his game. I suspect that they will either share that position, or that Robertson will push him to the bench. I have no problem there.

DQ has been a really good MLB. He's not making quite as many plays at or behind the line many times simply because the DL has really picked things up.

JMJ is a star in the making if you ask me. He missed the 1st 4 or 5 games of the year with an injury. It might have been longer than that, actually. He appears to have sound technique, and sets the edge nicely against the run. He is a sure and certain tackler, and I honestly cannot remember him missing one yet.

He has taken over the SLB spot and made it his own. Look at how our defense has improved since he's acclimated to the defense as the SLB starter. I think that his speed and quickness has really helped the defense a great deal.

I would rather see us find a quality starter at FS, and a pass rush demon at DE. Add in a TE and I'd be pretty happy about the team's prospects for next season.

I agree that DE, FS, and CB are our biggest needs. Wouldn't mind an upgrade at OG, either, but continuity is almost as good as a talent upgrade.

I also agree with Top that I'm not crazy about what's available in the first round this year. I don't think we'll be picking high enough to have a guy available that triggers the sort of "must-have" instinct that would warrant us a first rounder for next year. Sad, because ammo to go get Clowney next year would be my #1 draft target this year.

Ideally, I'd like to see us drop our first into the second (picking up a 1st or 2nd next year) and take Amerson to play FS. The guy is a big ballhawk but can be beaten on double moves. I think he could be a very good option at FS, though, and has a lot of potential as a corner.

In the third, take one of the injured FSU DE terrors, Carradine or Jenkins. John Simon as a fall-back.

If we're not sold on Smelley, then Trey Millard would be an excellent choice as a WCO (assuming we're still running one) FB in the 4th. The guy can catch the ball and make stuff happen afterwards. http://thenewsportsguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ou-hurdle2-10-13-12.gif

Rest of draft, go with best available guy that fell, similar to Winn and Wade last year. Build depth. OG, RB, OT, TE, CB.

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Ideally, I'd like to see us drop our first into the second (picking up a 1st or 2nd next year) and take Amerson to play FS. The guy is a big ballhawk but can be beaten on double moves. I think he could be a very good option at FS, though, and has a lot of potential as a corner.

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I could fall in line with that plan and be happy with it.

Question: Would you prefer Amerson or Reid from LSU.