|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806 |
Quote:
My thoughts... Keep Heckert...
Agree
Quote:
Shurmur, I don't really care either way. I've hated him as a coach for a long time, but this team is getting better. I do think he still has things to learn, and I don't think he ever will.
Haven't been a Shurmur fan starting with the announcement of his hire. I do see some progress but not sure enough. I would like to see what this team would do with a good coach and some stability.I am not sure Shurmur is the guy to be that coach however I would not be totally upset if we gave Shurmur next year (Don't see that happening).
Quote:
If we do get rid of Shurmur, I do not want to abandon the offense/defensive schemes. Keep the WCO and keep the 4-3. I do not want to switch either, in particular defense, and have to deal with having the wrong personnel for it for the next 3 years, causing us to have yet another reboot...
What coach would take over the HC job with those stipulations?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032 |
Quote:
What coach would take over the HC job with those stipulations?
Doesn't mean you put those stipulations on the coach, means you find a coach who fits what you've built.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
I'd like Heckart to pick a QB...now that Holgrams gone, he's done pretty good in all other areas, Not sold on Weedon
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Quote:
I'd like Heckart to pick a QB...now that Holgrams gone, he's done pretty good in all other areas, Not sold on Weedon
Heckert was 100% in on Weeden. If you listened to him before the draft, he really, really loved what Weeden brought as far as talent and ability. I think that he still believes that Weeden can be the guy, and I bet that he would stand pat at QB if he gets another year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
There will be others (not Heckert) who will determine whether or not Weeden is the guy. Heckert has a horse in the race and won't be able to have an unbiased opinion.
If it is determined that Weeden is not the guy Heckert has to go. GM's usually don't get to take a QB bust in the first round and keep their jobs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
It's hard to call a guy who has played as Weeden has, on a team filled with rookies, a bust though. Not yet. 1 and done is usually panic, not evaluation. Even Colt McCoy got 2 seasons.  However, we may panic and go sign some washed up has been to be our QB. Wonder what Jake Delhomme is doing these days? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I agree with that. But Weeden is tied directly to Heckert and Shurmur. He is their guy. If they are gone it will be hard for Weeden to keep his job.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 |
Colt didn't get 2 seasons. He got what, 8 games as a rookie? 10? Then he got a brand new system for his second year, new coach, etc.
Disclaimer: By pointing out the facts, that does NOT mean I'm clamoring for Colt to be the qb. (have to put that in here, otherwise I get accused of being a colt lover)
Oddly enough, what we were told to expect from Weeden - strong arm, super accurate, would free up the running game......none of that has happened. So we are left with "rookie, coach is holding him back",,,,,and now "coach threw so much at him by opening the playbook that no one could've handled it."
Oh, I forgot the special (before today's game) "if you throw out the first game, he's been okay" comments. Neat.
I was not able to watch todays game, so I followed it here, in the game day thread. I said it there, I'll say it here - if Weeden was half as bad as people were saying in the thread, we have a qb problem.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692 |
Quote:
Everybody was bad today.
Especially Weeden. 
I'm tired of the QB carousel in Cleveland, but I refuse to settle and say Weeden has it in him to be a starting QB. If we didn't take him, Weeden would be riding the pine as a career backup somewhere.
This QB thing is something we desparately need to settle soon. This year, we've seen that the team around the QB is finally there. Unfortunately, there's no viable solution in the next draft. I'm hoping next year we get a stop gap FA like Campbell or use McCoy and see if a year on the bench has helped (hey, it kinda worked for Alex Smith).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692 |
Quote:
Colt didn't get 2 seasons. He got what, 8 games as a rookie? 10? Then he got a brand new system for his second year, new coach, etc.
Disclaimer: By pointing out the facts, that does NOT mean I'm clamoring for Colt to be the qb. (have to put that in here, otherwise I get accused of being a colt lover)
Oddly enough, what we were told to expect from Weeden - strong arm, super accurate, would free up the running game......none of that has happened. So we are left with "rookie, coach is holding him back",,,,,and now "coach threw so much at him by opening the playbook that no one could've handled it."
Oh, I forgot the special (before today's game) "if you throw out the first game, he's been okay" comments. Neat.
I was not able to watch todays game, so I followed it here, in the game day thread. I said it there, I'll say it here - if Weeden was half as bad as people were saying in the thread, we have a qb problem.
Judge it for what it is, Weeden will have 16 starts in the NFL and McCoy will have 21. Weeden has both a better line and WRs that are catching the ball better (at least in the second half of the season). When I was watching the games last year, my biggest complaints wasn't the QB performance but the WR drops and the revolving door we had at RT. I didn't think we got a fair assessment of what McCoy can or can't do based on his supporting cast's performance. I fear that McCoy will get his shot after next year or we dish him in a trade for a low pick and he severely outperforms the opinion many in Cleveland (and on this board) have of him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Quote:
I agree with that. But Weeden is tied directly to Heckert and Shurmur. He is their guy. If they are gone it will be hard for Weeden to keep his job.
Maybe.
Harbaugh came in and kept Smith as his QB. (San Fran)
Usually teams that make coaching changes have QBs like Quinn, or the duo in Arizona ...... with no potential upside at all.
Plus, who is a new staff going to replace Weeden with?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
Quote:
Quote:
I agree with that. But Weeden is tied directly to Heckert and Shurmur. He is their guy. If they are gone it will be hard for Weeden to keep his job.
Maybe.
Harbaugh came in and kept Smith as his QB. (San Fran)
Usually teams that make coaching changes have QBs like Quinn, or the duo in Arizona ...... with no potential upside at all.
Plus, who is a new staff going to replace Weeden with?
Alex Smith. who knows. somoene not named Weeden or McCoy
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Alex Smith was a pretty wretched QB for much of his career.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Colt didn't get 2 seasons. He got what, 8 games as a rookie? 10? Then he got a brand new system for his second year, new coach, etc.
Disclaimer: By pointing out the facts, that does NOT mean I'm clamoring for Colt to be the qb. (have to put that in here, otherwise I get accused of being a colt lover)
Oddly enough, what we were told to expect from Weeden - strong arm, super accurate, would free up the running game......none of that has happened. So we are left with "rookie, coach is holding him back",,,,,and now "coach threw so much at him by opening the playbook that no one could've handled it."
Oh, I forgot the special (before today's game) "if you throw out the first game, he's been okay" comments. Neat.
I was not able to watch todays game, so I followed it here, in the game day thread. I said it there, I'll say it here - if Weeden was half as bad as people were saying in the thread, we have a qb problem.
Judge it for what it is, Weeden will have 16 starts in the NFL and McCoy will have 21. Weeden has both a better line and WRs that are catching the ball better (at least in the second half of the season). When I was watching the games last year, my biggest complaints wasn't the QB performance but the WR drops and the revolving door we had at RT. I didn't think we got a fair assessment of what McCoy can or can't do based on his supporting cast's performance. I fear that McCoy will get his shot after next year or we dish him in a trade for a low pick and he severely outperforms the opinion many in Cleveland (and on this board) have of him.
That's to say nothing of the RB situation last year. What a damned mess that was! Remember, it was this front office that brought Hillis in from Denver.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 745
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 745 |
Colt McCoy did more with less last year. Weeden is doing less with more in 2012.
can anyone imagine Weeden would do with last years offense around him?
worse than McCoy did.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
McCoy did nothing last year.
Sorry, but that's the truth.
We beat a pair of teams that went 0 for the 1st half of the season last year. We beat the Jaguars ... along with damn near everyone else. We beat the Seahags 6-3.
Incredible.
McCoy was largely ineffective in many of our games until the game was out of reach and teams started playing soft zones, trading time off the clock for field position.
The Raiders' game last year is a perfect example.
McCoy went 21-45 for 215 yards and 2 TD.
However, most of his stats came at the very end of the game when the Raiders eased up because they were up by 2 scores. On the final 2 drives of the game, he went 11-16 for 104 yards and a TD. The game was all but out of reach ... but we did score to make it closer. Then we recovered a magnificent onside kick .... and we were within 7.
That final drive .... included in those numbers above ..... McCoy went 1-4 for 7 yards.
Before the game was completely out of reach, McCoy went 10-29 for 109 yards and a TD.
That was the Raiders game.
In the San Fran game, McCoy went 22-34 for 241 yards and 1 TD. (and 1 INT)
His final 2 drives, the first of which started with the Browns down 20-3, and with 8:41 left in the game, he went 7-10 for 100 yards and his TD.
McCoy was good when teams dropped off into soft zones, but if they mixed things up, or played man to man, he was lost. He was better at throwing to a spot than throwing to a receiver. (by far)
Outside of those 2 final drives in the 49'ers game, when the game was lost, McCoy went 15-31 for 141 yards and an INT.
Let's not turn McCoy into something he wasn't last year. He was a guy who could make some plays against soft zones, but who struggled against man and more complicated zone defenses.
In the Texans game, McCoy went 14-22 for 146 yards with a TD and an INT.
In the final Browns drive, with the game out of reach at 30-6, McCoy went 5-6 for 57 yards and a TD.
That means that he went 9-16 for 89 yards and an INT outside of that final drive.
McCoy became more effective when the other team called off the dogs, and played prevent style soft zones, that traded field position for time off the clock. he was largely ineffective in too many games prior to that point. That's why he is no longer starting.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
I think we have to be honest with ourselves here.. (well some of us).. in that there is still in the back of our heads that Colt could possibly win the Browns some ball games..
I can see him winning, but you have to also remember that he can't make all the throws Weeds can.
I think we need a new QB.. but I'll wait until the season is over to say it for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275 |
How would you compare last year's team talent to this year's team talent?
Not to mention the improved play of Little.
Weeden has looked lost and confused since the concussion...actually before that.
McCoy should have gotten a look by now...not to be the new long-term starter...but to give Weeden a chance to take a step back - off the field - and watch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Quote:
How would you compare last year's team talent to this year's team talent?
Not to mention the improved play of Little.
Weeden has looked lost and confused since the concussion...actually before that.
McCoy should have gotten a look by now...not to be the new long-term starter...but to give Weeden a chance to take a step back - off the field - and watch.
Like it or not, Shurmur does not change QBs in season.
He didn't change last year when McCoy was stinking up the place, and he hasn't made a change this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
At this point, if we move forward with Weeden and without Shurmur, I hope the next coach will play to his strengths and not try to force a system on him. I mean isn't that the sign of a great leader? Play to your players strengths. Adapt to your personnel.
In the same vein, if it's someone like Saban who is a 3-4 guy, I hope he sees that the strength of our personnel is a 4-3. The best coaches should be the ones that adapt, not force.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275 |
Quote:
Quote:
How would you compare last year's team talent to this year's team talent?
Not to mention the improved play of Little.
Weeden has looked lost and confused since the concussion...actually before that.
McCoy should have gotten a look by now...not to be the new long-term starter...but to give Weeden a chance to take a step back - off the field - and watch.
Like it or not, Shurmur does not change QBs in season.
He didn't change last year when McCoy was stinking up the place, and he hasn't made a change this year.
I agree that Shurmur won't put in McCoy.
What are your thoughts on my questions tho? Especially that which is bolded.
FYI: I am not trying to be a jerk here...I respect your football commentary and wonder what your thoughts are on last year's team vs. this year and if you see what I do regarding Weeden needing a break.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Quote:
At this point, if we move forward with Weeden and without Shurmur, I hope the next coach will play to his strengths and not try to force a system on him. I mean isn't that the sign of a great leader? Play to your players strengths. Adapt to your personnel.
In the same vein, if it's someone like Saban who is a 3-4 guy, I hope he sees that the strength of our personnel is a 4-3. The best coaches should be the ones that adapt, not force.
I would agree with that.
Unfortunately, I think that we'll wind up with a washed up guy like a Michael Vick or someone ..... and we'll probably switch to a 3-4, just because it would necessitate a complete teardown.
I have this sick feeling in the pit of my gut that this is the direction we're heading in. I don't think that Banner wants to share credit with Heckert as far as players go, so we'll see many who "no longer fit" moved out at bargain prices. I just get the feeling that Banner looks at this as "his" chance to be the man, and to take the credit. We'll get some idiot like Lombardi. Then we'll go back to crappy drafts, overspending on crappy free agents, and continuing the downward spiral we've been in for far, far too long, and looked like we might, finally, be pulling out of.
I have this vision in the back of my head of us trading Richardson, and Weeden, and Taylor, and JMJ .... and they all go on to star in other places. Bleh.
Unfortunately, I don't know if this head coach is the answer ..... so staying the course may not work ...... but switching coaches brings its own problems ........
I just want a winner sometime before I die. Is that too much to ask for? Just a team that can string together 3 or 4 winning seasons ..... maybe playoffs berths ..... and perhaps, maybe, even a Super Bowl?
Is that really ... really too much to ask?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
You couldn't have done that with Weeden for the simple fact that, as of yesterday, we were still in the playoff race.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Has anyone else already talked themselves into the Lombardi/Saban combo? I know I have.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
Quote:
Has anyone else already talked themselves into the Lombardi/Saban combo? I know I have.
I haven't.. probably won't either. Saban is one helluva coach, but I don't see him coming here. But if he did, I don't see him staying longer than two years. Lombardi hasn't done anything to deserve consideration in my view.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656 |
Quote:
Has anyone else already talked themselves into the Lombardi/Saban combo? I know I have.
Not enough booze in the bar for that to happen for me!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
I guess you could take comfort in knowing that we won't trade Richardson.
Unfortunately, I think everyone else is fair game.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447 |
I for one would love to see Colt play the last two games .. Like to see what the young man can do with this improved Team and as well as see if there is any difference in the play calling ( and execution ) Would not kill Weeden to to sit back and watch for a couple of games either .. He seems to be playing like his head is spinning right now ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
I for one would love to see Colt play the last two games ..
Elvis Dumervil, Von Miller, James Harrison, Larry Foote and Lamarr Woodley agree with you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
I for one would love to see Colt play the last two games ..
Elvis Dumervil, Von Miller, James Harrison, Larry Foote and Lamarr Woodley agree with you.
not to mention the only thing I care about the rest of this season (other than the development of the young players) is beating the Steelers.
Colt McCoy vs. Pitt 0-3 22pts to 83pts
Brandon Weeden vs. Pitt 1-0 20pts to 14pts
I don't care that it was Batch on the other end. Let Weeden get a 2nd shot at Pitt.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275 |
Quote:
You couldn't have done that with Weeden for the simple fact that, as of yesterday, we were still in the playoff race.
That's exactly why I wanted them to do that with Weeden yesterday...actually for the Dallas game.
FWIW, I understand why you said that and it makes perfect sense when looking at it from that perspective.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Shurmur's fate likely sealed in latest loss
December, 17, 2012
Browns' slim playoff hopes ended in Sunday's 38-21 loss to the Redskins. Any chance of coach Pat Shurmur returning next season is likely gone, too.
A week ago, Shurmur was being praised for his creativity. On Sunday, he was being questioned by his own players for being too one-dimensional. The Browns threw 35 times and ran 15.
David Richard/USA TODAY Sports
Trent Richardson's lack of touches in the second half on Sunday had many people questioning Browns coach Pat Shurmur.The final decision on Shurmur's future will be made by owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner. But, based on what the players said Sunday, they are ready to move on from Shurmur.
Running back Trent Richardson seemed puzzled by the play calling. In the first half, Richardson scored two touchdowns, carrying nearly half of the Redskins defense in the end zone on one of them, and had 28 yards on nine carries. In the second half, he received two carries and produced zero yards.
Richardson was asked why he only had two carries in a game where the Browns didn't trail by two scores until midway through the third quarter. "It's shocking," he said. "But like I said, the game's much bigger than me. I've got to let Coach do what he does."
What Shurmur didn't do Sunday was find a way to get the ball to the team's top playmaker. Just like most teams that will face the Browns, the Redskins' game plan was to shut down Richardson. But the Browns have to figure out a way to keep Richardson involved in the game. They used the No. 3 overall pick on Richardson for a reason.
“When you get one-dimensional, it’s impossible in this league to do it for an extended amount of time,” quarterback Brandon Weeden said. “But that’s on us.”
Weeden never called out Shurmur by name but there were plenty of subtle jabs at Shurmur's offense. In praising the play of Redskins rookie quarterback Kirk Cousins, Weeden said, "Coach [Mike] Shanahan put him in a great spot. They tailored what he does well."
When asked about having four passes batted down, Weeden said those mostly occurred on the underneath throws about two or three yards beyond the line of scrimmage. “It’s been one of our better plays," he said.
Marla Ridenour of the Akron Beacon Journal thinks these comments sound like veiled indictments of the Browns coaching staff, and it's tough not to see it that way. The Browns offense ranks 26th in total yards and 24th in points scored.
All of the good feelings from a three-game winning streak vanished with Sunday's dismal home finale.
"Today we let ourselves down and we let the whole city of Cleveland down -- especially, the season-ticket holders," Richardson said, via The Plain Dealer. "I feel bad for them and I want to say as a man, I just want to come to them and apologize because this was the last home game. We're supposed to go out with a blast. It was a big ballgame and we didn't do what we were supposed to do."
It's nothing short of idiotic that you totally abandon the run in a game where you're leading.
He's earned his firing.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
Everyone in save your own arse mode.
These next two games should be a real joy.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
I don't know that it's gotten that far just yet, but it sure does sound like people have just about given up on Shurmur, and I don't mean just the players.
Oh, and did you see we just cut Dimitri Patterson? 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
At this point I am fine with canning them all including Heckert. We had three picks in the first 40 and came out with one long term starter ( I love Trent but he's not the same back he was before the knee injuries and plethora of Tide carries). I realize you blame Weeden on MH but I remember Heckert's hard on for him before the draft......he wanted him. So although I don't think TH stinks I think he certainly replaceable.
There is a good chance we lose our last two games, and I just can't see how you retain a FO that has gone a combined 13-35 in their tenure. Whomever the new guys are can figure out who they want and who to can as far as players go.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,075
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,075 |
Quote:
I don't think that Banner wants to share credit with Heckert as far as players go, so we'll see many who "no longer fit" moved out at bargain prices. I just get the feeling that Banner looks at this as "his" chance to be the man, and to take the credit.
If so, then he's a fool, pure and simple. Now, I've never been the boss of anything, but I'm pretty sure that employing the best, most competent people you can find would be a prime characteristic of being a good Top Dawg. Having said that, I find it hard to believe that there is a more accomplished, knowledgeable GM (or GM prospect) in the league than Tom Heckert.
And I don't give a fig about "compatablility issues," either. I spent 8 years in a string quartet with a person I personally couldn't stand, and we managed to do our jobs well. We didn't need to like each other to do successful work together. It's called 'professionalism.'
Haslam has a great opportunity to hit the ground running with a system that's already in place and making progress. If he plays his cards right, he could be hoisting a Lombardi in record time... and put his stamp on a dynasty that is ongoing. That would entail putting a leash on Banner, and telling him to 'play nice' with Heckert. If Mike Lombardi truly is penned in, this team will suffer immediately and for a long time.
A blowup for vanity's sake would go a long way toward losing me as a regular fan. I've suffered through too much incompetence, too many FO power struggles. bad drafts, and having gumbys in charge to start the cycle over again. Maybe it's because I allowed myself to feel some optimism this year, but the prospect of seeing us play out "Groundhog Day" is wearing me out.
I'm trying hard to believe that Haslam might retain Heckert for the good of the team....
...but I've been a Browns fan for far too long.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
I find it hard to believe that there is a more accomplished, knowledgeable GM (or GM prospect) in the league than Tom Heckert.
Heckert's done a decent job, don't get me wrong, but lets not get carried away here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
McCoy did nothing last year.
He had 3 game-winning drives in 13 games.
(source)
Weeden has had just one.
(source)
Both had completed 57.2% of their passes with 14 TDs. Weeden has 17 picks compared to McCoy's 11.
McCoy had fewer yards, but he didn't have Weeden's leading receiver either and he didn't have a RB that was drafted #3 overall.
Quote:
Sorry, but that's the truth.
What's Weeden's excuse for 'not doing anything'? He was sold as being 'mature' and not needing much in the way of how professional sports works. He'd been there before. So, what we face now is that we have a QB that will end up as a failure in both baseball and football and a wasted first round pick to show for it. The pick that we got for trading away the rights to draft Julio Jones to the Falcons.
Quote:
We beat a pair of teams that went 0 for the 1st half of the season last year. We beat the Jaguars ... along with damn near everyone else. We beat the Seahags 6-3.
Incredible.
And we've beaten who this year? A Steelers team with a geriatric QB that hadn't gotten the rust knocked off him and quite possibly the two worst teams in the AFC this year?
Quote:
McCoy was largely ineffective in many of our games until the game was out of reach and teams started playing soft zones, trading time off the clock for field position.
And yet, McCoy had 3 game-winning drives last year and Weeden has had 1.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Has anyone else already talked themselves into the Lombardi/Saban combo? I know I have.
Not enough booze in the bar for that to happen for me!
+1 
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pat Shurmur and Tom Heckert
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
