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You don't but you also don't know that he wasn't being confrontational, or that the comments were even directed at him.
He was at a meeting about gun control. Both sides were there, it was going to have some back and forth, regardless of who spoke.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 01/29/13 05:19 PM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I found a ton of knife violence rates.. what I had trouble finding was a knife death rate...
https://www.youtube.com/v/yHhUTsNJZkM
#gmstrong
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You don't but you also don't know that he wasn't being confrontational, or that the comments were even directed at him.
He was at a meeting about gun control. Both sides were there, it was going to have some back and forth, regardless of who spoke.
Shouted, at a man who just lost his son.. what more do you need to know.
In fact, let's say he whispered.. to a man that just lost his son. does that make you feel better?
Man losses his son in a brutal attack by a nutbag with a gun... is there really any good reason to ever confront him.. with anger or reason, is there really any good way?
Of course there isn't.
I really thought America and Americans were better than that and that we were a kinda people than that, but apparently, I'm wrong. Apparently, to some, it's more important to keep their toys then to be a human being and to feel the mans loss.
Free speech is a wonderful thing,, free speech that hurts an innocent man that just lost his son to senseless violence? yeah,, that's really very smart.
Keep in mind, I'm not arguing the point the "shouter" was trying to make. Not at all, I question his choice of timing.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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He stood up and expressed his opinion in an assembly about gun controll, some people shouted (per the reporter) back about 2nd amendment.
He had the floor in a legislative forum and asked a hypothetical/rhetorical question.. shouting anything from anywhere was uncalled for.... if you have a point to make, go through the right channels and take the floor and make your opinions heard in a respectful way.... By all accounts, that is what the father did.. he was probably asked to speak, others were probably asked to present opposing views, if not at this time, at least before legislation is considered I'm sure all sides will be heard..... I don't know all of the details of how this went down..
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I also wonder what the reporters definition of shouted was, did the person yell with anger or passion, or did the person yell from the back of the room loudly so they could be heard? Was the "shout" done in a threatening manner, or a loud statement?
This goes to the heart of my PR rants.. doesn't matter how it happened, what matters is how it was perceived as happening by the public..... and the conduit to the public is the media... Like it or don't like it, doesn't matter because this battle is only mildly about reality, it is largely about perception.... and until gun owners start managing the perception, they are going to fall behind in the debate.... most of the media isn't going to paint gun owners in a positive light so don't make their job easy by doing stupid crap like this...
Hey look, here is a 2nd amendment supporter that doesn't have the self-control to sit quietly through a discussion about gun laws... he has to yell out in favor of his cause.. do I really want that guy owning semi-automatic weapon? This is making the other sides case very easy to make.
yebat' Putin
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Like it or don't like it, doesn't matter because this battle is only mildly about reality, it is largely about perception.... and until gun owners start managing the perception, they are going to fall behind in the debate....
Exactly.
I've had lots of conversations lately about the topic with my NRA friends, and a lot of them just shake their heads.
I don't agree with the gun control argument, but the opposite side is looking worse and worse lately.
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I found a ton of knife violence rates.. what I had trouble finding was a knife death rate...
And I have a serious question, if somebody goes into a house and shoots 4 people, is that one gun crime or is that four gun crimes? Likewise, if I don't have a concealed carry permit and I get caught with a gun in my coat, even if I never used it, is that a gun crime? And I would ask the same question about knives in the UK since they have pretty strict laws about the kind of knives people (especially youth) can buy and carry...
I would assume they are separate crimes, as there would be separate charges for each person killed or injured. But back to the knife violence.....
My point in showing the exteme amount of knife crime, is for those that think the world will be much safer if guns were gone. Criminals and lunatics will just find another way to kill people. The largest school massacre in US history was in 1927, and they were killed by a bomb. They will find a way. If they use a blade, they'll just have to be closer. Seeing as I'm a knife and sword collector, I'm ahead of the game on that one. There have been several school sword/stabbing attacks in China recently. These loonies have been able to do the same amount of damage. I think the last one got 20 children, but I don't have the stats on how many died.
Personally, I'd rather retired grandparents are hired or volunteer to protect schools. Give them a good backround check and gun training, and I'm sure most of them would give their lives to save 'their' kids.
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
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This goes to the heart of my PR rants.. doesn't matter how it happened, what matters is how it was perceived as happening by the public..... and the conduit to the public is the media... Like it or don't like it, doesn't matter because this battle is only mildly about reality, it is largely about perception.... and until gun owners start managing the perception, they are going to fall behind in the debate.... most of the media isn't going to paint gun owners in a positive light so don't make their job easy by doing stupid crap like this...
I agree on one hand. I vehemently disagree on the other hand. What this "handful" of people did, out of some 2000 people in attendance, was wrong. However - was it a funeral? Or was it a forum about guns? Let's face it, the media has to have a "hot" story for it to sell. What these few people did made it "hot".
Have you, ever, in your entire life, seen the media do a report on "average Joe gun owner"? I haven't. I personally know several people that own anywhere from 20 guns to over 1000 guns. Not a single one of them has been used to commit a crime, let alone murder. Why not do a news segment on them, or write an article about them? Why? Because that doesn't "sell". And I should add - there are millions upon millions of law abiding citizens, owning 10's of millions of weapons......but we don't see that on the news, do we?
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Hey look, here is a 2nd amendment supporter that doesn't have the self-control to sit quietly through a discussion about gun laws... he has to yell out in favor of his cause.. do I really want that guy owning semi-automatic weapon? This is making the other sides case very easy to make.
Again, was this a funeral, or was it a public forum?
It was a public forum. For one side to toss up a father of a recently killed child and not expect anyone to disagree.........well, that right there is a "made for media" tactic.
I have a 12 yr. old daughter. You have one also if I remember correctly - 12, or close to it. Neither of us want to see our kids killed. And, neither of us has put ourselves in front of the media taking sides.
Look, the father took a public speaking engagement. That does NOT offer him the opportunity or the ability to speak his mind without others having a dissenting opinion. I'm sorry - as cruel as it may sound - the dad went public. Terrible, sad, tragic ending to his kids life....something NO parent wants to deal with.......but the discussion wasn't about his kid, nor was it a funeral.
I guess my biggest beef with everything is we have congress working on "assault weapons" bans............when they don't have a freaking clue what an assault weapon is.
Take Feinstein's bill........did you know that my Weatherby .223 rifle, that holds 5 rounds, would be banned if I put a thumb hole stock on it? OR, if I put a muzzle suppressor on it? Yup. My Smith & Wesson M&P 9c would be a banned weapon.........fyi, that is a compact 9 mm handgun. Why would that be illegal? Because it holds more than 10 rounds.
Now, "illegal" is a bit of a misnomer, as I bought it legally. But it couldn't be produced anymore, for me to legally own it (under feinstein) I would have to pay $200, send in fingerprints, tell the gov't..exactly where I store it, and send in my picture. And what do I get in return? The "ability" to own it till I die. Can't sell it, can't give it to my wife, son or daughter.......upon my death, it would have to be forfeited to the gov't.
Oh, did you know the bill excludes fed. employees? That's odd, isn't it? I was under the assumption that congress can't pass a law that doesn't apply to them as well as the citizens.........of course, I was wrong.......see the ACA.
There are also reports that the cn. shooter didn't even use an ar-15. Just handguns. My guess is we don't see those reports because that wouldn't look good.......I don't know.
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Also, I should add........first, I don't have the answers.........but I sure have rebuttals to stupidity. (not you - referring to feinsteins bill)
Secondly - we have more gun laws in this country than most countries do. Where has that gotten us?
We have a gang problem in this country........we have a "I want it, and I want it now" problem in this country, and we have a severe drug problem in this country.
We also have a congress that cares about nothing - NOTHING, but getting re-elected..............hence, the "outrage" over so called "assault weapons" (while allowing fed gov't. employees to have weapons that are banned.) You know - gotta make it look like you're doing something, right?
Again - the father the gun control advocates trotted out....nothing but pulling on the sentimental heart strings of the u.s. citizens. Yelling at him was not right...........although we don't even know if he was being yelled at, do we?
Trotting him out - which the media has done........furthers their "cause". Dad's cause is "my kid got killed".........the media's cause is "hey, this sells press".
Why haven't legal gun owners been in the media? Legal owners that haven't committed any crimes? Why? Because there are millions of them..........AND, it just doesn't "sell".
Try this out for a nightly news segment: "Joe owns 15 guns, some of which could be considered assault weapons. Joe bought these guns legally. They have never been used in a crime. Here is a picture of one of Joe's guns. It is a rifle, used to hunt varmints. Here is a picture of a coyote Joe shot. Joe keeps his guns in his house.
That's one heck of a story.....right?
Oh - no. That story sucks. While it's true of millions of people..............that just doesn't sell, does it?
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Quote:
I found a ton of knife violence rates.. what I had trouble finding was a knife death rate...
FBI stats
#GMSTRONG
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and we have a severe drug problem in this country.
How are guns and drugs different?
They're both devices whose harms stem from recklessness, stupidity and mental illness.
Millions of people use both, and don't seem to have problems.
If we have a severe drug problem, then we have a severe gun problem (IMO we don't have either - we have severe social problems).
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How are guns and drugs different?
Drugs are used to escape reality. They are frequently used as a maladaptive method of coping with emotions, feelings and stress.....without an intention to cause harm to others. In some people, they are only initially used as a recreational outlet from these feelings, but a segment of those people become dependant on or addicted to them. I'm not seeing the connection. Outside of maybe someone suffering from some type of paranoia, guns are not habit forming, addictive or a coping mechanism. Firearms issues are in no way analogous to the social problems associated with drug abuse.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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You can give me 100 reasons why this is NOT like the Westboro Baptist Church, but I'm a reasonable guy who actually supports the 2nd amendment.. .and if that is what popped into my mind, then I'm sure similar things popped into other peoples minds as well.
I can give you the best reason. I would have had the opposite reaction of that man. I believe that we should have armed guards in our schools because of the lunatics. Could you imagine the outrage if a terrorist group ever attacked a school here, like they did in Russia? That cost over 300 lives. These children are put in completely helpless positions without any protection. They have cops at kids' ball games to protect the refs against crazy parents, why not at school to protect the kids too?
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guns are not habit forming, addictive or a coping mechanism.
They can be all three things.
Anything can, really ... guns, drugs, sex, television, video games, etc.
I'm on the side of gun rights, but you can't have it both ways. A bag of weed or coke or whatever and a gun, by themselves, are no threat no anyone, and when used with caution and responsibility, can continue to be that way. What makes them dangerous is their users, and the poor decisions they make.
I'll say it again... we don't have a 'gun problem' or a 'drug problem' ... we have a social problem.
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You don't but you also don't know that he wasn't being confrontational, or that the comments were even directed at him.
He was at a meeting about gun control. Both sides were there, it was going to have some back and forth, regardless of who spoke.
Shouted, at a man who just lost his son.. what more do you need to know.
Guess I missed the part where it said they shouted AT him.....
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DCDAWGFAN
He had the floor in a legislative forum and asked a hypothetical/rhetorical question.. shouting anything from anywhere was uncalled for.... if you have a point to make, go through the right channels and take the floor and make your opinions heard in a respectful way.... By all accounts, that is what the father did.. he was probably asked to speak, others were probably asked to present opposing views, if not at this time, at least before legislation is considered I'm sure all sides will be heard..... I don't know all of the details of how this went down..
I agree.... I wasn't siding with anyone, just questioning Damans interpretation that it was a CONFRONTATION and now that the man was shouted AT.
I only read that someone shouted about the 2nd amendment after this gentleman's comments, and didn't interpret that as a direct assault on the man or his son, but on the subject matter of the meeting.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Actually I was talking all homicides, whether by gun, knife, arsenic, hanging, strangling or being beaten to death the GMs toilet seat.
You actually think people could get close to my bathroom without kicking the bucket before I had time to hit them with the seat? YA right lol
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Have you, ever, in your entire life, seen the media do a report on "average Joe gun owner"?
I have, and recently. (Well... you might have me at a disadvantage where the term: "mainstream" is concerned, but it is readily available to anyone... I guess that qualifies it-)
It was such a compelling story, I was hooked from the first minute- and it paints a decent advocacy portrait of the legitimacy of the 2nd amendment, too.
You'll never guess where I encountered such a story. I heard it on the radio, on
(wait for it....)
NPR.
 ... you know- that "staunch bastion of rampant liberalism?"
It was on a program called "Snap Judgement"... a show which features ordinary people forced into life-changing decisions by circumstance.
In this spot, we spent almost 20 entire minutes portraying a gun owner as the protagonist of the story. Joe is a rural Texan who has a gun in every room of his house. His wife is armed. There's a shotgun in the shed. In short- he's "armed to the teeth.... and for good reason.
Rather than bore you with one of my Homeric-lenght narratives, I'll just link you to the site- where you can listen for yourself.
I'm sure you'll find it as compelling, funny, scary and entertaining as I did. You might even become a fan of the show. (I've been listening since Day One... and when I can't be near the radio during local airing times, I download the podcast ASAP)
BUT: to answer your question- mainstream media coverage of "Average Joe Gun Owner" is indeed rare. Perhaps it's not so much a function of "liberal media bias," as much as it's a function of lack of sensationalism (which we can ALL agree is what fuels the "news" these days...)
Let's face it- the "Average Joe with a gun or two" isn't going to create headlines, arch. He isn't breaking any laws, he's going to work every day, attending his daughter's b-ball games/son's orchestra/band concerts... and handling his daily business- under the radar. There's simply no "news" in the lives of most gun owners. Even the story that I'm linking us to probably only received local/regional coverage... because nobody actually died.
Maybe it was because of the absence of stories like these in the everyday news that my ears locked in on the story. Maybe it's just that I'm a fan of the show from Day One. either way, you're right in the assertion that "everyday law-abiding gun owners" don't get media coverage. IMHO, they don't get coverage, because they don't fit the description of someone worthy of "news."
This story gives us a chance to examine "Average Joe" in a life-altering experience.
...I guess it doesn't hurt that his real name is "Joe," either- (hehehe)
Click my link, and give it a listen. Not for nothing, it IS national media exposure that not only gives us a glimpse into why "Average Joe" should be allowed to keep and bear arms- it also casts him as the protagonist of the narrative.
...and from NPR, no less
Who'dathunkit?
http://snapjudgment.org/texas-vs-texas
p.s. I hope this spot will get you (and all My Dawgs) hooked on the show- it's very, very cool.... and pushes the listener to re-examine who he thinks he is with almost every show. It's accounts of Real People- being pushed to make "Snap Judgements" in the moment.... a moment which can change their lives- forever.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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There have been several school sword/stabbing attacks in China recently. These loonies have been able to do the same amount of damage. I think the last one got 20 children, but I don't have the stats on how many died.
Hint: less than 1.
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JC
I'd be interested to know (if it's even quantifiable) how many crimes have been prevented/slowed by legal gun owners. For example, a criminal breaks into a house and is either shot, chased off, or held at gunpoint by a homeowner.
I would guess that our gun crime rate would go higher if the average citizen was not allowed to own a gun to protect him/herself.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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There have been several school sword/stabbing attacks in China recently. These loonies have been able to do the same amount of damage. I think the last one got 20 children, but I don't have the stats on how many died.
Hint: less than 1.
As I said, I was unsure. In that case I'll bring up, again, the Belsan school shooting in Russia. Islamic terrorists take over a school, holding over 1100 hostages. When all was said and done, there were 380 dead, with 186 of them being children. Reports say an armed civilian was able to kill 1 and injure 2 of the terrorists before he was killed. Imagine if all the parents were armed. Yes, it would be a blood bath. Yes, innocents would be killed. But, it probably would have been much less, or at least they would have had a fighting chance. Instead, the unarmed people were herded into the gym to be held as hostages.
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Actually I was talking all homicides, whether by gun, knife, arsenic, hanging, strangling or being beaten to death the GMs toilet seat.
You actually think people could get close to my bathroom without kicking the bucket before I had time to hit them with the seat? YA right lol
OK,, let's be real here, who wants to get close to your bathroom?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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