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How many blue chip players have the teams in your division drafted during the time Heckert was GM? AJ Green is the only major one I can think of. In regards to your other two questions, isn't that more dependent on coaching and player development more than the GM?
So he should keep his job based on collective incompetence in the division?
Cincinnati's GM must be doing something right, other than just A.J. Green. They went from perennial loser to back to back playoff appearances.
I'm not sure how capitalizing on a collection of first day selections speaks more towards coaching and player development. The GM has to deliver something to work with.
Continued performance could be argued in that vain but it also speaks to identifying the right players from a personality standpoint. That falls on the GM's plate. You have to get guys that are not only talented but willing to work on improving.
Again, Heck hasn't done a poor job but he also hasn't been great. He's made some solid selections, turned over the roster a bit but he's hardly irreplaceable. People need to get over the fear of change. Cleveland has won 9 games with 3 draft classes from Heckert. It's not as if we're opting to replace a guy who has completely turned things around. Competitiveness has improved but FA acquisitions have been awful and we don't have a whole lot to show for making top 10 selections for the last 3 seasons. There's some promising young players but nothing to bolt his seat down.
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I'm becoming a Kyle Shanahan fan.
The wco is a proven and time-tested winner, but if we switch, his ability to adapt the offense to a rookie 4th rounder showed me he can do things like a real HC.
I wouldnt oppose this either!
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How many blue chip players have the teams in your division drafted during the time Heckert was GM? AJ Green is the only major one I can think of. In regards to your other two questions, isn't that more dependent on coaching and player development more than the GM?
So he should keep his job based on collective incompetence in the division?
Cincinnati's GM must be doing something right, other than just A.J. Green. They went from perennial loser to back to back playoff appearances.
I'm not sure how capitalizing on a collection of first day selections speaks more towards coaching and player development. The GM has to deliver something to work with.
Continued performance could be argued in that vain but it also speaks to identifying the right players from a personality standpoint. That falls on the GM's plate. You have to get guys that are not only talented but willing to work on improving.
Again, Heck hasn't done a poor job but he also hasn't been great. He's made some solid selections, turned over the roster a bit but he's hardly irreplaceable. People need to get over the fear of change. Cleveland has won 9 games with 3 draft classes from Heckert. It's not as if we're opting to replace a guy who has completely turned things around. Competitiveness has improved but FA acquisitions have been awful and we don't have a whole lot to show for making top 10 selections for the last 3 seasons. There's some promising young players but nothing to bolt his seat down.
Going into today the Browns started Rookies in over 77 games this season and still won 5 games. The next closest was the Colts at 48. If that doesnt tell you all you need to know about how well Heckert has drafted Im not sure anything will.
He drafted a top CB some can argue he isnt the best but I feel he is.
He drafted a top DT trading down and getting value for the pick.
He drafted a top RB and while some get on his case T-Rich did set the Rookie RB record. All while hurt all year.
Weeden may or may not be the man its only his first year.
Gordon is going to be a superstar.
I still dont see what your talking about him only drafting marginal players.
Perhaps you want Mike "mad dog" Junkin or Tommy "touchdown" Vardel.
People complained we gave away Sanchez how does that look now?
Tim Couch I think was a gamble because we had nothing, Chip Banks Gerard"big Money" Warren.
I wanted Ngata and got Wimbley. How soon people forget. Yeah so lets trust the money guy to know a football guy when he meets one.
Im not drinking from Haslams cool aid and TBH neither should you.
He should have stuck to selling chips and hot showers to truck drivers.
You now have money guys trying to hire football guys.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Bill O'brien would be top on my list if Saban doesn't want the job. Just look what he did at Penn State is remarkable. He transfomed a quarterback that was average his whole career, and made him into a pretty good one his senior year. PLus the guy is smart, and his leadership is unquestioned. This guy is a high riser in my opinion.
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Going into today the Browns started Rookies in over 77 games this season and still won 5 games. The next closest was the Colts at 48. If that doesnt tell you all you need to know about how well Heckert has drafted Im not sure anything will.
I'd venture to guess that A.) the Browns have had one of the youngest teams in the NFL for the past 10 seasons and B.) They have averaged winning 5 games during that stretch.
That's what happens when you stink and have to continually fill holes, on a yearly basis, with draft picks.
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I still dont see what your talking about him only drafting marginal players.
I think you're getting worked up for no reason. I said he has made solid selections. Nowhere did I say marginal.
My argument isn't that he's done a bad job, it's that he hasn't picked enough difference makers.
Players like Gordon, Taylor and T-Rich are good young prospects but none have proven they're elite talents.
I like what Heck has done, he's steadied the ship a bit, the Browns might just need someone else to get them over the hump.
Do I personally agree with showing him the door? I'm kind of indifferent but asking a guy who just paid 1 billion for the team to keep someone else's guy in his chair might be a stretch.
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I woudnt mind giving Hue Jackson a look. He only had 1 year so the book remains open on him. I dont know if Kyle would leave but I wouldnt be opposed to taking a look at him either.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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still have to interview people.... to at least satisfy the Rooney rule even if you already know who you want.
<><
#gmstrong
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I'd venture to guess that A.) the Browns have had one of the youngest teams in the NFL for the past 10 seasons and...
...and you'd be wrong. Heckert took over one of the oldest rosters in football. If not the oldest.
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Let me ask you this. If you bought the Baltimore Ravens would you can Ozzie because you felt you needed your guy in place? Fair question.
What I dont understand if you indeed see Heckert has done an above average job why would you accept a new owner with no previous experence just filling positions because they are his guys?
There is a good chance you and I will be fans of the Browns long after Haslam is no longer the owner. We have been fans for decades before he got here.
Every thing I have seen over those years tells me that what I see happening now with my fav team is regessing farther then I thought possible.
Go look up our last 23 1st round draft picks and then tell me what 3 you would rather have then Heckerts last 3.
On a side note I saw a rumor that Reid and Heckert may end up in San Diego together who do you think will get to a SB faster if that happened, us with Haslams marketing people or SD?
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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still have to interview people.... to at least satisfy the Rooney rule even if you already know who you want.
A good point no doubt.
Another reason you don't make changes mid season.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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If I were Haslam I'd throw everything, includung the kitchen sink at Ozzie!
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I'd venture to guess that A.) the Browns have had one of the youngest teams in the NFL for the past 10 seasons and...
...and you'd be wrong. Heckert took over one of the oldest rosters in football. If not the oldest.
So 3 years later we're treading water, with a younger roster. Is that the argument? That at least it's a younger team?
I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why having a young team automatically equates to losing? Or is a built in excuse for rolling with mediocrity?
The other team cited was Indianapolis and they won 11 games this year, after winning 2 the year before.
The Browns average age is 25.62. The Packers average age is 25.65. 
Other teams of note with really young rosters:
Vikings - 25.65
Seahawks - 25.77
Patriots - 25.81
Bengals - 25.87
So what is the counter to those teams being as young as the Browns but light years ahead of the organization?
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If I were Haslam I'd throw everything, includung the kitchen sink at Ozzie!
Face it, Ozzie is a Raven. He's not coming back here.
The page has been turned.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Way too much negativity here. Why do people love Heckert so much?
Under Holmgren/Heckert they:
- Wasted a year on Mangini
- Wasted a 3rd round pick on Colt McCoy
- Drafted a 29 year old rookie QB
- Dropped the ball on the RG3 acquisition
- Have a record of 9-23
- Gave contracts to guys like Chris Gocong and Evan Moore
- Put a team on the field that had no chance to go to the playoffs either this year or last year
- Allowed Pat Shurmur to be offensive coordinator
Etc etc. Some of that falls on Holmgren but Heckert was the GM so I'm sure his input was considered. I'm not blown away by any of his drafts. You should always hit on top 10 picks.
I'm not saying he did a terrible job but there were many problems and I don't think it's a big loss.
Haslam wants to win. If you are convinced all he wants to do is make money... Well nothing is going to generate more revenue than putting a winning team on the field and he obviously knows that.
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If I were Haslam I'd throw everything, includung the kitchen sink at Ozzie!
Face it, Ozzie is a Raven. He's not coming back here.
The page has been turned.
KILLJOY!! 
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Sorry your going to have to give his brother and his dad some credit as well.
His dad was smart enough to give each of them tasks that complemented the business overall.
I'll give his father and brother credit also. I'll give his younger brother credit for being elected Tennessee governor too.
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Haslam is a numbers and marketing guy. Its all he cares about here.
He is a numbers guy. Of course he wants to make money. Super Bowls mean money! He's also a fan of the game. Randy Lerner wasn't.
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He has said it over and over and over again. What can we do to market the team better? How can we make the fan experience better?
Those are good business questions. Absolutely. You imply that there is something inherently wrong with asking those questions.
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Banner is the same. Hes a numbers guy. The new President is a numbers guy. The new VP is a numbers guy. See any trends here?
I see that they are all on the same page and understand what is needed to accomplish the goal. Winning football games and making money in the process. That's another thing that the new ownership has over Randy Lerner. They actually want to make money. Randy Lerner didn't. It was a distraction to him and that's why he left the day-to-day operations to Mike Holmgren as the virtual owner authority.
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So lets fire the only real football guy in the building, yeah that will impress and inspire me to be believe these guys have even the slightest clue on how Football teams are built on the field.
Holmgren was, I think, the quintessential 'football guy'. What did that get them? I'm sure that Haslam was able to take a look at how the team was run under Holmgren's authority prior to the sale going through. It probably accelerated once the change was official and Holmgren had the power vested in him ripped away and he was left with no power whatsoever.
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Legend
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Way too much negativity here. Why do people love Heckert so much?
Under Holmgren/Heckert they:
- Wasted a year on Mangini
- Wasted a 3rd round pick on Colt McCoy
- Drafted a 29 year old rookie QB
- Dropped the ball on the RG3 acquisition
- Have a record of 9-23
- Gave contracts to guys like Chris Gocong and Evan Moore
- Put a team on the field that had no chance to go to the playoffs either this year or last year
- Allowed Pat Shurmur to be offensive coordinator
Etc etc. Some of that falls on Holmgren but Heckert was the GM so I'm sure his input was considered. I'm not blown away by any of his drafts. You should always hit on top 10 picks.
I'm not saying he did a terrible job but there were many problems and I don't think it's a big loss.
Haslam wants to win. If you are convinced all he wants to do is make money... Well nothing is going to generate more revenue than putting a winning team on the field and he obviously knows that.
Good job. Nice post, on point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Way too much negativity here. Why do people love Heckert so much?
Because he has done more to infuse the team with young talent in a short period of time than anyone else since our return. He might not be the best, but he is the best we have had since the browns return.
Joe Thomas #73
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Way too much negativity here. Why do people love Heckert so much?
Under Holmgren/Heckert they:
- Wasted a year on Mangini --
That was on Holmgren
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- Wasted a 3rd round pick on Colt McCoy
Alot of people like that pick me included a 3rd round pick for a back up isnt a waste. I
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- Drafted a 29 year old rookie QB
Who has shown he could be a better then avg QB. The book is still far from closed on him
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- Dropped the ball on the RG3 acquisition
So you would rather have RG3 with Mo Mass and no T-Rich No RT no late 1st round pick which wouldnt be a QB and no 1st round pick next year and by extention probably no Gordon? Yeah he really blew that. Hows Cam Newton doing?
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Have a record of 9-23
Again thats on Holmgren he hired him
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- Gave contracts to guys like Chris Gocong and Evan Moore
You have to have players and although I wasnt happy with those contracts they serve a purpose they fill the roster while you continue to build.
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- Put a team on the field that had no chance to go to the playoffs either this year or last year
No one on gods green earth could have filled this roster and made the playoffs with what we had.
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- Allowed Pat Shurmur to be offensive coordinator
Mike Holmgren invalid point once again.
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Etc etc. Some of that falls on Holmgren but Heckert was the GM so I'm sure his input was considered. I'm not blown away by any of his drafts. You should always hit on top 10 picks.
I'm not saying he did a terrible job but there were many problems and I don't think it's a big loss.
Haslam wants to win. If you are convinced all he wants to do is make money... Well nothing is going to generate more revenue than putting a winning team on the field and he obviously knows that.
Haslam bought a team that made tons of money with no winning in sight. What makes you think sold out stadiums with losing teams, the largest backers in the NFL with the losing prior would tell him he needs to do anything but market more.
Winning never mattered before to the bottom line.
Again if the first questions I hear from the owner are
How can I make the fan experence better? What can we do to improve the fan experence? what am I to think?
I heard nothing about the actual team and then now its come out they didnt even talk to the coach I can tell they give less of a crap about the product on the field and more about how much money they make.
Jones from Dallas is his hero. Who cares what the product on the field is the fans will come its a matter of how much can we get from their pockets. Thats why Jones let him hire away our new Pres.
Last edited by NickBrownsFan; 12/30/12 08:22 PM.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Way too much negativity here. Why do people love Heckert so much?
Because he has done more to infuse the team with young talent in a short period of time than anyone else since our return. He might not be the best, but he is the best we have had since the browns return.
For the record, I didn't make the comment you quoted me as saying, but to comment on your comment.....just because Heck was the best we had, which I agree, it doesn't mean he was all that good.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Not incredibly high marks to live up to eh?
He's done ok and I'd rather not see it blown up.
I didnt pay a billion for the team though...
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Not incredibly high marks to live up to eh?
He's done ok and I'd rather not see it blown up.
I didnt pay a billion for the team though...
LOL...neither did I.....but if I did, and I suspect you as well, I'd be making the damn picks.
I can assure you that. At least until I was proven incompetent.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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So you would rather have RG3 with Mo Mass and no T-Rich No RT no late 1st round pick which wouldnt be a QB and no 1st round pick next year and by extention probably no Gordon?
Yes. Franchise QB > Anything else
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Hows Cam Newton doing?
Very good. Do you think he is bad?
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J/C
Regardless of what happens, the power structure in cleveland will be different under Haslan/Banner.
Banner is on record saying he "prefers" the Head Coach has final say on the rosters and what not (this means draft picks, free agents, etc) much like Andy Reid has in Philly.
so our next Gm will be nothing more then a glorified scout.....so this begs the question exactly "who" is out there in the coaching world that has a track record able to have this type of power and be successful?
Well my 1st thought is Marty Schotenheimer....the dude knows how to build football teams, he has won everywhere he has been, and the guy has 1 more stint left in him. He was on the radio a few years back saying he would come back under the right circumstances...meaning having final control over the roster. I would give Marty Schotenheimer final control in a minute and not bat an eyelash...1st year will be 8-8...after that will be playoffs in consecutive years...the dude means business and has the track record to prove it.
my 2nd thought is Bill Cowher....Cowher is tough nut to crack though....does he really even want to come back at all? thats the question. Cowher interviewed for the Browns job before the Steelers hired him, Cowher is on record saying Head coach of the Cleveland Browns is his dream job....in fact we would get preference over anyone else...but it just comes down to if Cowher even wants to get back into coaching again at all...Cowher only turned us down before because simply put he don't want to coach anywhere right now....could new ownership change his mind? could him having final say over the roster, and complete control in Cleveland be, just enough, to perhaps be cowher's last dance in the NFL? that remains to be seen...to be honest im not sure Cowher even wants to comeback to the NFL...thats going to be the deciding factor with him.
Andy Reid? If Reid is canned in Philly, we may be his next stop. The media hyped up a big power struggle with Baner and Reid, but i don't believe that to be true at all. only believe half of what you read. Banner had good things to say about Andy Reid when asked about him, and Andy Reid seemed to think they had a pretty good relationship. I see no hard feelings amongst these two at all.
I think Andy Reid, if fired, Banner and Co are going to go all out to nab him up.....think about it...Jauron was a former DB coach/DC under Reid. Childress was Reid's former OC....most of our coaching staf would stay in place with hiring Andy Reid, and it wouldn't be a huge shock to the program we are trying to build.
look people have disagreements from time to time, but the news media just blew the Banner/Reid thing way out of proportion...they made a mountain out of a molehill....If Andy Reid is fired in Philly, i'll be 85/15 that he is our next head coach...it makes sense...two of Reid's most trusted coordinators are already here....so those positions are filled with guys he already knows, trusts, and has spent years working with already....and Reid would be given final say on the roster....and it just makes sense...
i wouldn't be suprised at all to see Andy Reid as our next Head Coach with Childress and Jauron staying on if Reid is available...
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I'd venture to guess that A.) the Browns have had one of the youngest teams in the NFL for the past 10 seasons and...
...and you'd be wrong. Heckert took over one of the oldest rosters in football. If not the oldest.
So 3 years later we're treading water, with a younger roster. Is that the argument? That at least it's a younger team?
I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why having a young team automatically equates to losing? Or is a built in excuse for rolling with mediocrity?
The other team cited was Indianapolis and they won 11 games this year, after winning 2 the year before.
The Browns average age is 25.62. The Packers average age is 25.65.
Other teams of note with really young rosters:
Vikings - 25.65
Seahawks - 25.77
Patriots - 25.81
Bengals - 25.87
So what is the counter to those teams being as young as the Browns but light years ahead of the organization?
Indy was a 11/12 win team a year before last year....They got a Qb that they could plug n play n mold him with pieces already set, experienced, group thats been together. We have none of that.
Our current team was learning how to win this year and we could of very easily been 8-8 and in the playoff hunt. Weeden imho is pretty much gone. I dont see a new coach coming in hear and keeping him. Our WR's were creating space and getting open all year. Little and gordon have come along nicely. I'm glad that someting mid-season made Little play much better. IDK what it was but it was enough to revitalize him, so to speak, and change my opinion of him.
We are a young team with some very talented young players. I hope we keep Jauron and Heckert. Cuz now that this young team, who definitely looked like they hit the rookie wall, will have some experience and did learn how to win a lil bit. This is a good, young competitive group that from what i've heard has a great lockerroom. It may be a bit of glasses half full, but we were 3 plays away from being in the playoffs. And I got to watch some good competitive football from my favorite team and I haven't had that oppurtunity in a while. I just dont want another blow it up scenario. Make a few tweeks, replace a few key spots, and next year I expect us to make playoffs... no excuses, cuz we finally have the talent to do so.
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Banner has been down that path before. I don't think they go there once more.
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Legend
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You just gave three examples of things that will never happen.
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I thought Banner and Reid werent close?
I'd take Brian Schottenheimer though.
A good GM can bring along a younger HC. I'm sure they'll be on the same page.
At least I HOPE theyll be on the same page...
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Legend
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It sounds like Haslam and Banner want a young HC who hasn't been a HC before.
<><
#gmstrong
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I thought Banner and Reid werent close?
I'd take Brian Schottenheimer though.
A good GM can bring along a younger HC. I'm sure they'll be on the same page.
At least I HOPE theyll be on the same page...
Unless...It's Mike Lombardi.
I friggen give up if we hire that guy! 
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I think he is going to be as good as Vick and Tebow and any other QB like that.
NFL defense adjust everytime.
I personally have no faith RG3 will ever win let alone reach the SB.
Same for Cam Newton Let me know when Cam makes the playoffs.
Now I agree you have about a 98% better chance of making the playoffs with a franchise QB they are NOT worth 4 1st round picks to a team rebuilding.
How many SB winning QB's not named Manning have been drafted 1st or 2nd overall? They come from everywhere. People got caught up in the hype. I still think the hype machine is in effect.
I dont think RG3 would have gotten us to the playoffs without the talent we aquired this year in the draft. Ill agree we probably dont have our franchise QB yet but then again I saw enough in Weeden to think we may.
If weeden isnt the guy then you keep searching. That was what Holmgren said you keep drafting QB's until you find "the one".
For example Lewis looked pretty good today could he be the one? we may never know. Flynn looked pretty good was beat out by a 3rd round pick.
McCoy looked decent until he discovered that he sucks.
Sanchez was a franchise QB he took the Jets to the AFC championship games. Never got over the hump. Same with Kosar.
The list is littered with could haves wanna bes and may haves. You dont know if you have one until they actually get there.
I would venture to say most would be crying about how Heckert didnt get RG3 enough talent to help him as he would be toast.
Then they would be crying about how we wasted so much on him setting the team back because hes a bust.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Dawg Talker
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I would rather have griffin. He is playing for the division tonight, while we are stuck looking forward to the draft and another rebuild.
I just believe he is a rare breed of athleticism, smarts, leadership, and work ethic. The guy has no flaws like Vick or Newton. Vick was lazy when he first came in, and newton has struggled with tough times. Something Griffin excels with. Unless he gets injured, I think he will play in a super bowl or two.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133 |
Quote:
McCoy looked decent until he discovered that he sucks.
 If only we could have kept him from finding that out.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 512
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 512 |
Me too but you can't change his mind, Heckert is GOD... GOD I tell you!!!!
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
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I think he is going to be as good as Vick and Tebow and any other QB like that.
NFL defense adjust everytime.
While Vick has not been as good as he could have been, he is in a different stratosphere then Tebow. Comparing those two to each other is a major insult to Vick. RGIII is having a better season, in his rookie year, than Michael Vick has ever had. He also has shown a willingness to work that Vick never had until he was released from the pokey.
True defenses adjust, but so do offenses. Especially when they have good coaches and talented players.]
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Same for Cam Newton Let me know when Cam makes the playoffs.
Newton has played very well his first two seasons on a Panther team that has one player to throw to and no defense. He will be very successful.
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How many SB winning QB's not named Manning have been drafted 1st or 2nd overall?
Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw (4 times), Jim Plunkett (2 times), Troy Aikman (3 times), Steve Young, John Elway (2 times), Peyton Manning, and Eli Manning (2 times).
There have been 46 Super Bowls, so 34% of Super Bowls have been won by the #1 overall pick. And then there are Len Dawson (5th overall), Bob Griese (4th overall, 2 times), and Jim McMahon (5th overall).
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
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Me too but you can't change his mind, Heckert is GOD... GOD I tell you!!!!
Lol hes not God by any means but he is better then people make him out to be.
Name me 1 just 1 GM of the Browns that has been better in the last 40 years.
I can think of maybe 1.
As to RG3 how well do you think he would do on this team without those players?
I guess probably after being destroyed by our bad line with no RT and G's we would have won the same if not less games.
Then we get to look forward to another year of the same.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Quote:
Quote:
I think he is going to be as good as Vick and Tebow and any other QB like that.
NFL defense adjust everytime.
While Vick has not been as good as he could have been, he is in a different stratosphere then Tebow. Comparing those two to each other is a major insult to Vick. RGIII is having a better season, in his rookie year, than Michael Vick has ever had. He also has shown a willingness to work that Vick never had until he was released from the pokey.
True defenses adjust, but so do offenses. Especially when they have good coaches and talented players.]
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Same for Cam Newton Let me know when Cam makes the playoffs.
Newton has played very well his first two seasons on a Panther team that has one player to throw to and no defense. He will be very successful.
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How many SB winning QB's not named Manning have been drafted 1st or 2nd overall?
Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw (4 times), Jim Plunkett (2 times), Troy Aikman (3 times), Steve Young, John Elway (2 times), Peyton Manning, and Eli Manning (2 times).
There have been 46 Super Bowls, so 34% of Super Bowls have been won by the #1 overall pick. And then there are Len Dawson (5th overall), Bob Griese (4th overall, 2 times), and Jim McMahon (5th overall).
Ok so ill take my chances with 66% being not 1st round or 2nd round picks over the 34% that did.
Your cam having no one to throw to would have been us. For the next 3 years do you think this fan base and media would have let him do that?
They wont even give T-Rich an injured year. Weeden who played without a playbook learning a very complex playbook 5 games it seems.
Dont forget you would have had the same coach in Shurmur.
Again I eat crow when RG3 gets to the SB but even the great Elway got there 3 times and lost then finally won 2 times. Jim Kellly got there 4 times and never won.
RG3 has better WR's and way more experenced WR's then we have. It is my opinion that he would have faired the same here 5-11. Fans and media would be proclaiming him he biggest bust ever and then I would actually be on the fire heckert bandwagon if we had made that trade.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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It's not like the redskins had an offensive juggernaut a year ago. Last year they averaged 18 pts, this year 27. plus their running back was drafted in the 6th rd, and is doing better than Richardson. Shanahan is a pretty darn good offensive mind, but he was doing nothing in dc until he drafted griffin.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
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It's not like the redskins had an offensive juggernaut a year ago. Last year they averaged 18 pts, this year 27. plus their running back was drafted in the 6th rd, and is doing better than Richardson. Shanahan is a pretty darn good offensive mind, but he was doing nothing in dc until he drafted griffin.
You forgot to mention their FA signings this year which at least 1 of them we tried to sign and he flat out said he wouldnt come here.
Ill give you Shanahan is a good offensive mind wonder what he could do here?
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Posts: 2,186 |
Garcon was injured a good portion of the year. Just going on stats Gordon and Little outperformed Moss and Garcon.
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