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I give Kyle a shot for sure!
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All Pro
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Quote:
Garcon was injured a good portion of the year. Just going on stats Gordon and Little outperformed Moss and Garcon.
how can u compare stats when one is injured a good portion of the year???
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No one should be surprised by these firings. Haslam paid over $1 billion for this team and I can't blame him for wanting to have his own guys. Whether they deserve to be fired is a different story.
Paying $1,000,000,000,000 for something doesnt instantly make you smart.
The one and only reason you would spend that is because you knew you could make more money then you invested.
So if failure isnt the issue because its almost impossible to fail in the NFL and not get at least your investment back, how exactly is having "his" guys in charge good for us "fans"?
Its his playground now however I may not be visiting, like I used to.
I'll counter by asking the same question. How is keeping Shurmur and his staff good for the fans? Since Shurmur has been head coach, I've heard more complaints about him on game day than Mangini. Pat Shurmur has a loser's mentality and brings that to the team. He couldn't even just be a head coach and wouldn't let his OC take over the offense because "it's fun calling plays." How's that putting the betterment of the team over his own ego. Sure, the man is easy and professional in front of the media; however, his product on the field leaves a lot to be desired. That, my friend, is not good for the fans. Unless you like engaging in the "our coach is a bonehead" topics we see pop up on here. 
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you will get no arguement over Shurmur from me I was calling for him last season.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I think Heckert will land in San Diego. His drafts did improve year by year when he was GM. He should only improve as a GM. His experience in Cleveland will only help him become a success elsewhere.
This is my only complaint with the foreseeable blow up. In a perfect world, I'd love to retain Heckert. I feel that the majority of his draft picks have performed well and that long term, we are alright due to his diligence. I guess we'll find out how imperfect this world is soon enough.
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Legend
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I hate everything about this.
It feels wrong, it smells wrong. I hope I'm off about this, but Haslam seems like a Jerry Jones type at first glance.
I'm really afraid that they will turn this into a team i I'll root AGAINST, in time.....
Dawgs, I got a baaaad feeling about this-
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Too quick to label him that type of owner.. It's expected initially that he wants to put the people HE wants to help his organization succeed in the NFL.
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I love Haslam as an owner.... not so sure I like Banner though... but Jimmy to me really comes across as a guy who wants to win and is very passionate.... until he makes himself GM (like Jones) I'm not going to worry too much about him being too involved.
<><
#gmstrong
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Jones would never give up as much control as Haslam has already given up.
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As bad as Jones is, I would take the Cowboys last 10 years over ours. Heck I can't think of a team who has had as bad a decade as we have.
To put it in perspective, a large portion of the fan base is crying about the firing of an FO that went 13-35 overall, because he wasn't as crappy as the other guys..lol.
The good news is it can't get worse no matter how Jimmy does, because quite frankly worse doesn't exist.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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As bad as Jones is, I would take the Cowboys last 10 years over ours. Heck I can't think of a team who has had as bad a decade as we have.
To put it in perspective, a large portion of the fan base is crying about the firing of an FO that went 13-35 overall, because he wasn't as crappy as the other guys..lol.
The good news is it can't get worse no matter how Jimmy does, because quite frankly worse doesn't exist.
+1
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The good news is it can't get worse no matter how Jimmy does, because quite frankly worse doesn't exist.
Apparently you missed the Chris Palmer and Eric Mangini years?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Apparently you missed the Chris Palmer and Eric Mangini years?
I liked Mangini, I just think that he needed a real GM to reign him in and pick the players. The whole Kokinis affair was definitely a big mistake and those two apparently never should have been put together. The GM should have been hired first, Mangini second. It should have been clear who's in charge.
But strictly as a coach, I liked Mangini a lot
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No, but I made reference to it since you did. That's exactly what he said. To be fair, it was Elizabeth Warren who he stole it from.
But, still, the point sticks that he's the one who made a success out of the truck stop business.
So, spare me. You don't like it that Heckert is going to fired so you make some silly comment like you did. Do you have something against Haslam because he was a minority owner of the Steelers?
I'll give Haslam credit for building every nickel of the truck stop empire and it wasn't his employees that gave him the business sense.
Ok,, Now you have totally lost me, what the hell did warren say that I repeated?
And why the OBAMA comment.. Damn, the hatrid is so freakin stupid.. DUMB
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Glad you liked Mangini. The headmaster of the oldest roster in the NFL. I didn't. Now, Mangini might do a better job in this (coming) FO structure. But I'm also guessing that he'd never come to a place where he couldn't control everything like he tried to do here. And make no mistake about it, no matter HOW he says it what Banner means when he says he wants the coach to have control of the roster, what he means is he wants the coach to decide the final 45 from the guys he's given by Banner. The coach will have little say on who is picked by the "GM". Only on who doesn't get cut by the end of training camp. Which is the reason I believe they won't get a big name to come here. It'll be a guy in his first NFL head coaching job. Gosh, that'll be new..... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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ESPN just reported that Shurmur is fired, and it will be official at 9:45am.
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For better or worse, he got his tutoring from the Rooney Family and honestly, Love them or hate them, they've pretty much run a model organization since the late 60's and they have the Lombardies to prove it. I can't think of a better school of thought to come from.
So, he's gonna screw up here and there.. it's almost impossible not to.
But for the moment I have to give the guy some room to move around, shift things, get comfortable with the organization and the folks he has running it. He paid for that right. One Billion times he paid for that right.
As we have paid for the right to expect him to turn it around and turn it around quick. Exactly how much of a honeymoon do you plan to give him to "get comfortable"?
How much did Haslam really learn from the Rooney family? He was a minority owner for only 4 years. During that time, he was the CEO of Flying J.
With a full time job as a truck stop magnet, the minority ownership was nothing more than a part time job. Did he learn anything from the Rooney family? I'm sure he did. But he did not make the NFL anything close to a full time job until after he bought the Browns.
So let's not act like he truely invested the time it takes to build and run a franchise as a part time NFL owner for four years. He knows how to say all of the right things and he has the passion. Outside of that? We'll have to wait and see if he knows how to build an NFL franchise.
In the truck stop world you go through employee turnover a lot when it comes to the actual front line employees. In the NFL you need to build a sense of continuity.
I'm not saying he can't do it. But to try to sell a guy who was running a truck stop chain full time, while devoting part time as a small minority owner for 4 years isn't a very convincing arguement.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Now, Mangini might do a better job in this (coming) FO structure. But I'm also guessing that he'd never come to a place where he couldn't control everything like he tried to do here.
He was able to coach the Jets with Mike Tannebaum as his GM. Tannebaum is definitely in charge of the Jets roster and is above Rex Ryan in the pecking order. He was also ahead of Mangini in the pecking order.
The structure setup here made no sense, but had we hired a GM first who was a real GM, then Mangini would have fallen in line IMO.
And I think that if a team (who already has a GM) offers him a job, he'd take it if it's a good fit. And that means if he can work with the GM. But he will definitely be behind the GM in pecking order.
As for Banner. I don't get what people are saying. Banner is CEO. There's plenty of other NFL teams that have CEO's. But just because he's CEO doesn't mean that he is going to tell the GM who to pick and what players get to be on the field, etc. Where in any interview do you see that? I haven't seen it at all.
There's this doom and gloom attitude that Banner is going to control what players the team goes for and as you said "The 45 guys the coach can play", like some sort of tyrant.
I just think it's ridiculous, and I'm gonna give the guy a chance.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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ESPN just reported that Shurmur is fired, and it will be official at 9:45am.
Interesting that they didnt mention Heckert as well. We all knew Shurmur was gone. I guess there is still a glimmer of hope yet for Tom. Im not holding my breath but I am holding on to hope.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
ESPN just reported that Shurmur is fired, and it will be official at 9:45am.
Looks like Heckert's gone too.
web page
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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and for other teams,
KC - RAC is out but they are keeping Pioli
Jets - Tannenbaum is out and Ryan is staying.
Jags - GM Gene Smith is gone.
#GMSTRONG
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yep.. Heckert is gone too..  but i mean.. lets be real.. we knew Heckert was gonna get the boot too.
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For sure. No surprises. Now let the fun begin. No Lombardi's, No Lombardi's, No Lombardi's, Stop. 
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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I cannot emphasis this enough:
Do not hire Michael Lombardi
you had a good run Hank.
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Don't know if this has been posted yet, but I got a new flash on my I Phone from the WKYC App. It says that Shurmur and Heckert have been fired..
I didn't check but my my guess is that you can check it on WKYC.com
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Heard it on Fox 8 also.
Heard Kelly is a SERIOUS candidate.
Nothing on any sports outlets about any of it though.
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Press conference scheduled for 11:30 a.m.
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Andy Reid officially gone too.
He's getting all the coverage though.
Norv Turner now too.
Last edited by 1oldMutt; 12/31/12 11:09 AM.
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Just Clicking Quote:
Heckert, Shurmur relieved of duties with Browns
Posted 13 minutes ago
Tom Heckert and Pat Shurmur have been relieved of their duties with the Browns.
Tom Heckert and Pat Shurmur were relieved of their duties as general manager and head coach, respectively, of the Cleveland Browns today, the team announced.
“We felt that these moves were in the best interests of the Cleveland Browns and our future,” said Browns Owner Jimmy Haslam. “I enjoyed getting to know Tom and Pat over the past several months, and want to thank them, not just for their contributions to the Browns, but also the insight they were able to provide. They are both fine men and hope they have the best of success as they move forward with their careers.”
“This decision was not an easy one because of my relationship with Tom and Pat and the fact that they are both quality people,” said Browns CEO Joe Banner. “Ultimately our objective is to put together an organization that will be the best at everything we do. On the field, our only goal is trying to win championships. I have a great deal of respect for Tom and Pat, and I want to wish them and their families nothing but the best.”
“I leave the Browns feeling very good about many of the things we accomplished here and the direction in which I believe this team is headed,” Heckert said. “Having been around this franchise growing up, I was really excited for the opportunity to come here three years ago, and I want to thank Randy Lerner and Mike Holmgren for making that possible. I also want to acknowledge many of the hard-working people in the Browns organization, especially our player personnel staff, who are outstanding at what they do and supported me immensely in my role. I wish the team nothing but the best as they move forward.”
“I am extremely proud of the players on this team, who I felt made tremendous strides and helped to make the Cleveland Browns relevant again,” Shurmur said. “I want to thank them, as well as my entire coaching staff for making the past two years enjoyable. My coaches are outstanding teachers and even better men. They helped me lead these players through a unique time of transition. This group of players will achieve success soon, and there will be a part of me that will feel very good when that happens.
“I want to thank Randy Lerner, Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert for bringing me in and having the faith in me to lead this football team. I am disappointed that we did not win more games, but I do know the Browns are on their way to becoming a consistent winner. I appreciated the time spent with Jimmy (Haslam) and Joe (Banner), and wish them all the best as they provide a new vision for the Cleveland Browns.”
From the Browns main site
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well so much for hope.  While I totally disagree with firing Heckert obviously there is nothing I can do about it. Well Haslam is officially on his own and must find good football people to continue the growth this team has started. I said last night with a new coach I expect to make the playoffs next year and nothing has changed that. We have the talent to contend and with another draft/FA period should be good enough to make a serious push for the post-season. Nothing to do now but sit back and watch what Bannar does.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I can understand Shurmur being fired but Heckert has more of a leg to stand on to be able to stay. Looking at those draft picks, Heckert did not do bad at all. If someone cries about not getting FAs, part of that was Holmgren's plan. I think the Heckert part might be a bigger mistake.
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Quote:
Andy Reid officially gone too.
He's getting all the coverage though.
Norv Turner now too.
Romeo out in KC
The Bears fired Lovie Smith 
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Im suprised about Lovie Smith being canned. He had the team at 10-6.
Wonder what was going on there?
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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I can understand Shurmur being fired but Heckert has more of a leg to stand on to be able to stay. Looking at those draft picks, Heckert did not do bad at all. If someone cries about not getting FAs, part of that was Holmgren's plan. I think the Heckert part might be a bigger mistake.
I don't' know how much of the "no big money FA" was holmgren. I mean, if you look back on Philly when Banner, Heckert and Reid were all there together, they never really went after too many Big Money FA's.. But Heckert leaves and they went buck wild..
I think the No Big Money FA thing was more Heckert with Holmgrens agreement than an edict by Holmgren and Lerner..
Whereever Heckert goes,, let's see what he does. If he brings in a ton of High Priced FA's that might tell us somethimg.
But we'll probably never know for sure.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Wasnt Smith a D coordinator?
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Quote:
Wasnt Smith a D coordinator?
He used to be D-Coordinator with the Rams.
Bears players love him.
I'd definitely be interested in him as our coach. Or may be we can bring Tony Dungy out of retirement!
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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I doubt Jauron sticks with an entire new regime.
There's my D coordinator.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Wasnt Smith a D coordinator?
He used to be D-Coordinator with the Rams.
Bears players love him.
I'd definitely be interested in him as our coach. Or may be we can bring Tony Dungy out of retirement!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shurmur and Heckert expected to be
fired Monday
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![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
