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I assume nothing,I simply asked a question.
You've made the assumption that his definition of winning is the same as yours,and you've made that assumption because you want so very badly for him to be the right guy,not because you possess knowledge of the man.
Not you,I,nor anyone on this board truely knows what motivates him.Until we find that out we'll not anything about him.
Ooops,we know 1 thing,he associates with weasels.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Haslam is all about making money first winning 2nd make no mistake about that.
Agree, But I think Halsem is smart enough, or I hope he's smart enough to understand....Put a winning team in Cleveland, the money / profit will follow,
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I'd have saved my billion dollars and not bought the team if I was only interested in money.
He wants to win. whether we do or not remains to be seen.
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I'd have saved my billion dollars and not bought the team if I was only interested in money.
He wants to win. whether we do or not remains to be seen.
Rofl re-read what you just wrote. He spent a billion dollars because he wants to make money off that billion. He has said it and Im not sure why refuse to listen to it.
He has said I see many areas of marketing this team that remain untapped. Ticket prices are the lowest in the NFL right now. Expect that to change when his deal with Randy runs out. Logo, uniform, changes, cheerleaders all are about money and winning is a side bonus for even more money.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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regardless of what happens, For the first time since Modell was owner of the Browns, I feel we have quality leadership with our New Owner Haslan and CEO Banner.
I think these guys will hire a good quality that coach that will get this thing turned around...i really do.....
I don't know who we will hire, but i think that hire will be a good one. As for Chip Kelly, I doubt he ends up in Cleveland...Banner is not a moron....he knows that Kelly's O will never work in the NFL...Banner isn't that stupid i don't think....
I do think Jimmy and Joe will hire a quality NFL head coach...im just as curious and excited as all of you to see who exactly that will be.
I just wonder if Lovie Smith made their list? i'd love to have Smith here...that dude is known for his pretty good Defense....and if you got a good D you have a chance to win and that is just so important...and Smith likes to run the ball and we have Richardson....again Lovie Smith got to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman at QB so that speaks volumes about Smith's ability as a head coach....
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All Pro
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one guys opinion. not ESPN's across the board
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EGOS back in power in Cleveland
Banner really just said answering a tough question "even if I gave you an HONEST answer to that"
Back to double talk, inflated egos/opinions, power struggles and dumb mistakes.
I got trashed when I went all storm on Mangini from the get go saying that he was a power struggle waiting to happen, and he proved to be that TWICE.
Same now happens with Banner....I know the naive homers will come out again with "maybe he has learned from Philly" prayers, but it's more likely he won't change his character at this advanced an age and with even MORE power than ever before (someone else see the SAME structure as when Mangini was brought in?).
Good god, stop looking like a freaking backstabbing rat Banner !! You can already see his inflated aristocratic self-assessment the way he is pretty much looking down on the questions.
We are stupid, that should sum it up
Happy new year, I might have watched my last Browns game for a while
Not defending Banner here, but that was a response to a question pointed at the firing of Heckert and he didn't want to bad mouth him. It's a tough question to get asked. If you say, Tom is a great guy a terrific GM, the next question is, so, why did you fire him.
The answer to that I think is they wanted to transfer some of the power that Heckert had to the new HC.. I don't think Heckert wanted that.
This is just a general response to the presser today. If I hear Candidly one more time I'm going to scream. Someone else said it, candidly is the new Battled. I got tired of that as well.
Based solely on their words today (not what I read into them), I'd say that Bruce Ariens isn't going to be in consideration for HC. They want a Leader with strong personnel skills. I think he's a leader, don't know about the personnel skills.
That would leave out McDaniels and Gailey. I don't know how they can take an O'brian or Chip Kelly because they are unproven in the personnel side in the NFL
Probably leaves out Lovie Smith and you know it leaves out RAC.
Man, I just cut down the list of HC's in a hurry,,
It's funny, some on here beat the hell out of Lerner for hiring a HC before hiring a GM and that's exactly the priority Haslam and Banner are saying they intend to work with.
Not a traditional approach.. which is ok if it works. But if it doesn't,, man will they get beat on.
All and all, I'm lukewarm to this new management team so far. But I'd do my ever lovin best to remain open minded.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Many more things a man with a billion can invest in than an NFL franchise and things with alot less headaches.
The guy wants to win and making money will fuel that.
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Haslam is all about making money first winning 2nd make no mistake about that.
Agree, But I think Halsem is smart enough, or I hope he's smart enough to understand....Put a winning team in Cleveland, the money / profit will follow,
Eh... Randy made a half billion.
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He spent a billion dollars because he wants to make money off that billion. He has said it and Im not sure why refuse to listen to it.
Owners make money when they sell teams, not really when they run them. While the NFL is an easy league to make marginal gains, do you really think a guy who has a net worth in the billions is solely interested in how he can make an additional 5-10 million per year? Those are modest yearly returns on such a massive investment (1%). It's like using a billion dollars to open a checking account and draw interest. For guys like Haslam, that isn't really where they draw their motivation.
When you've made more money than you know what to do with, you take on management challenges, not monetary ones. I don't know where you draw your quotes from but I have yet to see or hear Haslam focus on monetary issues like you claim he has. There will surely be some of that, because he's no doubt trying to steer a business in the right direction but someone doesn't buy a perennial loser and then not obsess about winning.
Haslam has reached out to Kraft and Blanks, he's spent time with Jerry Jones, he's been actively involved (from day 1) in extending an olive branch to successful owners.
"Nobody wants it more than we do. Nobody is going to outwork us. I will say this, though, we're not going to take a bunch of shortcuts to go 9 and 7 one year and then fall back. We're going to do it the right way."
Go fish his direct quotes from every interview and Haslam focuses on how important personnel decisions are. People getting caught up on anything directly correlated with marketing or money are latching on to a minority of his comments.
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The good news is it can't get worse no matter how Jimmy does, because quite frankly worse doesn't exist.
Apparently you missed the Chris Palmer and Eric Mangini years?
I was including Mangini in this statement (thus the "decade" comment earlier in the post). I am sorry, but Palmer was an expansion coach who was given two years............no way in hell do I blame him for that mess. At the end of the day these guys had three years, and never improved above 5 wins.......that is scary bad in today's NFL.
Vers posted on the main board about Heckert's inability to plug holes via FA as his undoing, and I agree with that. This is the modern NFL, and you simply can not exclusively build through the draft anymore because of the shortness of rookie contracts. Is the draft your main source?? Most definitely. However, that shouldn't preclude you from playing a legitimate FS and not the likes of Hagg.
I think people get caught up in how many rookies we had starting without asking the question how many of these guys would start on other teams??? Hagg...zero. Johnson....zero. Lavaou.......zero.
The product has not been watchable for the better portion of 5 years. I don't blame Heckert exclusively for that by no means. As a matter of fact I think he did a pretty decent job considering what he inherited. My point is quite simply when a guy spends a billion dollars he wants his team set up his way, and barring a super star GM or Coach that was going to happen. We know Pat isn't a super anything, but I would argue that Heckert although being above average isn't irreplaceable by any means..........and certainly shouldn't be a reason to set the organization up the way they want it (aka it appears a big time HC by the interview).
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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J/C Peen was emphatic about not liking Shurmur because he had a "rat face". I do not know if I have ever seen anyone more rat-faced than Banner. Conflicting stories: Reported during the Steelers game, Shumur claims Banner never had a conversation / sit down with him. Then Banner goes on to talk about their "relationship". Banner seems like a liar to me. I don't think I will ever understand hiring such a smarmy guy right off the bat. It doesn't bode well for the future IMO.
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I assume nothing,I simply asked a question.
You've made the assumption that his definition of winning is the same as yours
and you've made that assumption because you want so very badly for him to be the right guy,not because you possess knowledge of the man.
You assumed that I assumed mine and his definitions are the same after saying you don't assume anything, you then assumed that I "want so very badly for him to be the right guy" and that my some how non existent personal relationship with the man prevents me from formulating an opinion contrary to that which is popular in this thread.
I said I INFER from what I have seen and heard from him that the man cares about winning very much so, I never said once that he is the savior of Cleveland and we need to start worshiping the man. I also don't know how him and Banner are going to turn out but I feel like we at least have an owner who cares very much about his product, much more so than Lerner ever did.
You need to read a little bit more before you respond with assumptions.
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This is what you said;
I don't care what they say up there. I know Jimmy Haslam wants to win and wants to win bad. The media isn't entitled into who they are looking for yet and we will all know soon enough what is going on. This was a formal end of year conference and a lot of the questions they were asking I don't feel like Haslam should have been able to answer (questions about Weeden, that's not his job, that would be the upcoming coach) and questions regarding the roster. On the other hand it's clear that Haslam cares and is going to do anything he can to bring a winning environment back to Cleveland.
You can stand behind your words,or not.Makes no nevermind to me.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Vers posted on the main board about Heckert's inability to plug holes via FA as his undoing, and I agree with that. This is the modern NFL, and you simply can not exclusively build through the draft anymore because of the shortness of rookie contracts. Is the draft your main source?? Most definitely. However, that shouldn't preclude you from playing a legitimate FS and not the likes of Hagg.
Heckert's undoing was Randy Lerner selling the team. Look we had a free agent attitude surrounding this Browns team. Guys that didnt want to practice and just really was all about me had destroyed this team. See the dismisal of Patterson as one of the later examples of an issue with free agency and also Peyton Hillis. We had a team full of those issues.
We removed attitude problems and replaced it with a college team mentality where guys wanted to play for each other and it made this season one of the most enjoyable I have witnessed. 5 win team that was fun to watch.
Haslam has been consistent in stating we are building through the draft, it is the Steeler model. Banner has gone after the expensive free agents which simply has produced little results for his Eagle teams.
Hopefully Haslam is true to his word and keeps Banner out of the free agent market on those big name guys.
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This is what you said;
I don't care what they say up there. I know Jimmy Haslam wants to win and wants to win bad. The media isn't entitled into who they are looking for yet and we will all know soon enough what is going on. This was a formal end of year conference and a lot of the questions they were asking I don't feel like Haslam should have been able to answer (questions about Weeden, that's not his job, that would be the upcoming coach) and questions regarding the roster. On the other hand it's clear that Haslam cares and is going to do anything he can to bring a winning environment back to Cleveland.
You can stand behind your words,or not.Makes no nevermind to me.
Ok, so here are two of the scenarios then...?
1. Haslam is being honest when he says he wants to win and his passion up in the press box is a legitimate reaction to his teams failure or success. "Knowing" he cares,as i put it, based on these reactions and the emphasis he has put on winning and building a legacy in Cleveland is something he really means, and his massive investment over a billion dollars into a franchise that has suffered losing season after losing season is an investment and project he wants to undertake to bring success to Cleveland.
- He is also a businessman, and I would ASSUME that he understands that bringing a winning team to Cleveland will also make him a wealthier individual.
2. Haslam is a complete two faced lying POS who doesn't care about anything besides money (losing a ton brings in better money than winning, right?) He doesn't care about his teams failure or success, and his reactions in the press box and comments to the media about how much he is ready to win and turn things around is a complete facade that he has started to screw with the entire city of Cleveland and milk them for their hard earned money.
Which one is more likely I'll leave up to you.
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Josh McDaniels will be staying with New England. Link
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Great news. McDaniels was my biggest fear.
The interview process makes me think Haslem is looking for a big time power coach, and I have no interest in McDaniels having any say in personnel decisions
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I don't care what they say up there. I know Jimmy Haslam wants to win and wants to win bad.
[sarcasm]And of course Lerner, Mangini, RAC, Palmer and everyone else who owned or coached this team wanted to lose. Thank God Haslam wants to win.[/sarcasm]
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On the other hand it's clear that Haslam cares and is going to do anything he can to bring a winning environment back to Cleveland.
[sarcasm]And of course the Lerner family didn't care if we won or not. They didn't bring in guys with impressive resume's whose careers were riding on us being successful.
Only Haslam and Banner meet that criteria......[/sarcasm]
And the fan base is ready to buy a bill of goods because some smooth talking marketing guy knows how to talk. For the love of God.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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McDaniels was my biggest fear.
Chip Kelly is my biggest fear.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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never getting to witness the Cleveland Browns win a championship is my biggest fear..
at the end of the day, the majority of our Wins & Losses comes down to the players, and mainly the QB play.
Shurmur didn't fumble those balls on Sunday. Shurmur isn't out there covering Antonio Brown, etc. Get better players and we win regardless of our HC.
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Sure you have seen worse. Cowher and Forrest Gregg (although we used to call him 'ferret face'"), and both were well above average spitters when angry. Just sayin. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I don't believe that Randy Lerner cared one bit about a winning football team. All he wanted was to appease the fans until the day he could sell the team.Haslam seems to be a guy who genuinely wants to have a winning team.
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I want to see who they hire as head coach before I go nuts.
Stop with the crazy talk. 
You know, when we brought in Mangini, I thought it was a terrible idea. But I let it play out, because the truth was, I really had no idea.
The same goes for what's going on right now. I don't know that I've ever seen this board act so irrationally. I mean, it's understandable to be uneasy or wary ... but the ridiculous 'I'm done with this team' stuff so many are trotting out is bordering on childish lunacy.
I remember when Heckert came on board, many were fuming that he was merely a puppet in Philly, and that Reid was the man with the plan. Preconceived notions are being taken as fact lately. I know that happens often here... but this is a new level of irrationality going on, IMO.
Am I wary of Banner? Yes, a bit.
But the doom and gloom is just odd.
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I'll never be 'done' with this team... but there are a few people that if we hire I'd be totally shocked and saddened...
<><
#gmstrong
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Am I wary of Banner? Yes, a bit.
But the doom and gloom is just odd.
+1, which due to all the Gov. Politics stuff, is very odd for me to say PDR.
But I absolutely agree. I'm just very surprised with the attitude of some people on the board.
Am I weary? Of course. But I'm definitely interested in letting the situation play itself out. I did want to keep Heckert, but apparently it just wasn't meant to be with Banner coming in as CEO and his vision of how he wants to run the team.
But man, a lot of people on here don't seem to care to give the new Front Office a chance and are just very negative. And I really wasn't expecting it at all
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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+1, which due to all the Gov. Politics stuff, is very odd for me to say PDR.
Off topic a bit, but over the years I've noticed that those I completely disagree with in political forums are those that I tend to agree with in football forums.
Go figure.
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We are making the exact same mistakes that put us in this freaking mess to begin with just as we were starting to poke our heads above water.
Carmen Policy 2.0 in Joe Banner Another contract lawyer that has been given power over the football side. Lets find the HC and then let him find his GM and boy that has worked well. Butch hired his puppet that refused to listen to his own scouts. Mangini hired Koko puffs who hid in his office and preteneded not to be in so he wouldnt have to talk to people lol.
I am not a fan of banner and believe he is nothing more than a worm that will set this franchise back for another decade. King of the quick fix Joe Banner.
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What is your basis for saying that though?
That's where the doom and gloom comes in.
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Carmen Policy 2.0 in Joe Banner Another contract lawyer that has been given power over the football side. Lets find the HC and then let him find his GM and boy that has worked well. Butch hired his puppet that refused to listen to his own scouts. Mangini hired Koko puffs who hid in his office and preteneded not to be in so he wouldnt have to talk to people lol.
I have trouble remembering exactly what went down with Carmen Policy.
But with Banner here, I don't see how the situation is similar to Kokinis and Mangini. Mangini was basically given free reign, where as I think that banner would keep a balance with things.
The guy has been in the NFL for awhile, he does know what he's doing to some degree. Now he might be more interested, now, in being a bigger player in making the decisions, but he still has the guys running operations (coach and GM).
As I said, I don't really know much about Policy. Didn't he and Savage get in a power struggle and he got fired? I know he got fired, but I don't remember what really happened.
Anyway, I don't see untapped power ALA Kokinis and Mangini where Kokinis found himself in a situation he didn't expect. And, if I'm not mistaken, Banner held a similar position with the Eagles for awhile. So he has to have some sense of what he's doing.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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No that was the 2nd lawyer we hired to run the football side of things lol Hey 3rd time is the charm i suppose
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What is your basis for saying that though?
That's where the doom and gloom comes in.
My basis for not liking Banner is simple: Mike Holmgren knows a lot more about football than Joe Banner does. - A LOT more. Mike Holmgren thought enough of Tom Heckert to give him final say on personnel decisions. - Tom Heckert isn't here anymore because Joe Banner doesn't want him having final say on personnel decisions. Simply put, who in the world is Joe Banner to question Mike Holmgren's judgement? Additionally, the consensus around Cleveland was that Heckert was doing a great job and should not have been let go. Think Banner cared? Banner is going to do this his way and he is going to fail. Instead of making solid, level-headed decisions about what is best for the team, Banner is taking a giant risk in a: finding a new coach and b: giving the new coach more say in personnel decisions than the gm will have. - And for what? At this point of the current rebuild, the wisest, smartest, and most solid decision would have been to give Heckert and Shurmer another year.
Let me ask you this: What do you think Mike Holmgren thinks of what is going on here. I have a feeling that he is shaking his head saying to himself that Banner is leading Cleveland into perhaps the most ridiculous 3 years of football we have ever seen.
I guarantee you, with the way Banner is setting this up, the next three years will be very similar to what we saw with Mangini.
Personally, I can't wait for the next three years to be over with because it means that Banner will be gone. - I'm that sure of it.
Only an arrogant, egotistic, person lets go of Heckert at this point, and Shurmer should have been given another year also.
Make no mistake, this team is ruined. I was born in 1978 and have been going to Browns games since 1983 and for the first time in my life it feels like this team is completely hopeless.
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What do you think Mike Holmgren thinks of what is going on here.
Mike Holmgren did a bad job. Yes he hired Heckert, but I would argue that was more the doing of his agent then him. He then hired Shurmur, one of the worst coaches in the NFL, without interviewing anyone else.
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Additionally, the consensus around Cleveland was that Heckert was doing a great job and should not have been let go.
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Shurmer should have been given another year also.
Wasn't the consensus that Shurmur should be fired? So the consensus only matters sometimes?
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Mike Holmgren knows a lot more about football than Joe Banner does. - A LOT more.
I agree with that. But does he know more about hiring people? I say no.
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I guarantee you, with the way Banner is setting this up, the next three years will be very similar to what we saw with Mangini.
Personally, I can't wait for the next three years to be over with because it means that Banner will be gone. - I'm that sure of it.
Doom and gloom. You know that this is bad before anything of significance has happened.
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I don't understand all the doom and gloom....to be honest, the doom and gloomers are not even being fair here. its like you people don't even want to give Haslan and Banner a chance...i mean come on...
Look bill Parcells said it best and i quote "You are what your record says you are"
With Heckert/Homlgren/Shurmur...drafts included they were what...9-24? again you are wat your record says you are...if these guys were so good at drafting players we would have been better then 9-24....the proof is in the pudding.
All i am saying is....why don't we give Banner and Haslan a chance here....thye can't do any worse then what we have already seen the last 8 years or so....who knows maybe things will turn out good.
I understand many are afraid of change, but we have to give this new ownership a fair shot here...they just may deliver us a team that no one laughs at anymore, that actually competes year in and year out...but we gotta give them a chance...
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Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
Completely hopeless?
I totally disagree. We have an owner that knows how to win and is trying to bring in the people here to do it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,552
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,552 |
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He then hired Shurmur, one of the worst coaches in the NFL, without interviewing anyone else.
don't forget he first wasted a year on Mangini before hiring Shurmur...
I like Shurmur and was hopeful he would become a good HC.... but hiring him after basically not interviewing anyone else was just really strange.
<><
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,975
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,975 |
Quote:
never getting to witness the Cleveland Browns win a championship is my biggest fear.
In the broader football perspective I agree. In the search for a new HC, I worry that the wrong coaching hire will make that fear come true. I am not getting any younger.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,138
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,138 |
Quote:
I don't understand all the doom and gloom....to be honest, the doom and gloomers are not even being fair here. its like you people don't even want to give Haslan and Banner a chance...i mean come on...
Look at how many regime changes we've had over the past decade. Now look at how many of those regime changes actually lead to success. This is just more of the same. Plenty of reasons to have a bad feeling about this. I can't think of one reason to feel all warm and fuzzy.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
I don't understand all the doom and gloom....to be honest, the doom and gloomers are not even being fair here. its like you people don't even want to give Haslan and Banner a chance...i mean come on...
Look at how many regime changes we've had over the past decade. Now look at how many of those regime changes actually lead to success. This is just more of the same. Plenty of reasons to have a bad feeling about this. I can't think of one reason to feel all warm and fuzzy.
I can. Look at what happened from 1999 thru 2002.
1999 - 2 Wins, 14 Losses
2000 - 3 Wins, 13 Losses (Chris Palmer is fired)
2001 - 7 Wins, 9 Losses (Butch Davis takes over has HC)
2002 - 9 Wins, 7 Losses (playoffs)
In October 2002, Al Lerner died. He had passion about the Browns and wanted to build a winning franchise. From 2003, his son, who inherited the team and did not have the same (or any) passion for the Browns took over.
2003 - 5 Wins, 11 Losses
2004 - 4 Wins, 12 Losses (Davis quits, interim HC Robiskie takes over)
2005 - 6 Wins, 10 Losses (Crennel is hired to take over has HC)
2006 - 4 Wins, 12 Losses
2007 - 10 Wins, 6 Losses (weak schedule and we just miss the playoffs as Dungy sits his starters the final week)
2008 - 4 Wins, 12 Losses (Crennel is fired)
2009 - 5 Wins, 11 Losses (Mangini is hired as HC)
2010 - 5 Wins, 11 Losses (Holmgren/Heckert come in) (Mangini is fired after the season)
2011 - 4 Wins, 12 Losses (Pat Shurmur is hired as HC)
2012 - 5 Wins, 11 Losses (Jimmy Haslam buys the team in July and takes control in October) (Holmgren is fired mid-season) (Shurmur & Heckert get fired at seasons end)
2013 - Record TBD (as yet unnamed coach and personnel director/general manager to be hired)
The difference has been that Al Lerner had a passion for the team. His son did not. The new owner has an undeniable passion for the team. It's going to make ALL the difference in the world.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
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Mike Holmgren thought enough of Tom Heckert to give him final say on personnel decisions.
...except for quarterbacks.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shurmur and Heckert expected to be
fired Monday
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![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
