|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Raise your hand if you think Jabaal Sheard can cover receivers in space from the 34 OLB spot?
Any takers? Didn't think so.
Raise your hand if you think Jabaal Sheard will be asked to cover receivers (tight ends and backs mostly) on a regular basis?
Any takers? Didn't think so.
Quote:
He becomes an edge pass rush specialist only and possibly off the team. Phil Taylor will be doomed in a 34 as well. He's NOT a 34 NT nor is he a 2-gap 34 DE. Time to throw away ANOTHER 1st round pick. Rubin and Winn (and possibly Hughes in a backup role) are the only DLine that survive the switch IMO.
Edge pass rushing specialist are very valuable.
When coming out of college everyone thought Phil Taylor would be drafted as a nose tackle in the 3-4. People were surprised a 4-3 team drafted him. Also, it was said by Chudzinski that we would be using a "hybrid" defense, meaning the situation will dictate the defense. So at times Rubin and Sheard will be out there together with two defensive ends who have their hands in the grass.
Quote:
As for LB? Ugh. Gocong can make the transition but who knows if he can get healthy. DQ goes from All-Pro to avg at best and very replaceable. JMJ could make the transition. I don't think anybody else survives unless it's out of desperation b/c we can't flip the entire defense in 1 off-season.
I agree with you about Jackson. Although Daryl Washington is a similar player on the Cardinals and he is very successful in the 3-4. A reminder, we have $47 million in cap room and have to spend it. We will be signing some players.
The sky is not falling. Rubin, Taylor, Winn, Hughes, and Rucker can all play in a 3-4. Sheard can rush the passer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Also, it was said by Chudzinski that we would be using a "hybrid" defense, meaning the situation will dictate the defense.
I would think before we all follow the first lemming off the cliff that we'd wait and see how this hybrid defense will be put together.
Isn't it too soon to make assumptions about our roster and systems?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
I guess w/ our offense pretty much set.. we could afford to invest in some defensive pieces during the draft, which we would have done anyway..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 |
Has anyone ever watched James Harrison attempt to cover RBs and TEs?
The word mismatch comes to mind.
Has anyone watched that same Harrison coming off the edge against any LT not named Joe Thomas?
Again,mismatch.
3-4,4-3 it doesn't matter.It takes talent and coaching.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Quote:
Quote:
Also, it was said by Chudzinski that we would be using a "hybrid" defense, meaning the situation will dictate the defense.
I would think before we all follow the first lemming off the cliff that we'd wait and see how this hybrid defense will be put together.
Isn't it too soon to make assumptions about or roster and systems?
It is.. I will say nothing until I see who the DC is ,and what he wants to run..and that includes any thoughts on the draft.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
Doesnt the chargers already run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 and even some 5-2 mixed in? Anyway we dropped Sheard back into zone a zone this year a few times.
I dont like the 3-4 but if you are gonna run it, better to run an attcking 3-4 than well Romeo and Mangini's version.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Quote:
Doesnt the chargers already run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 and even some 5-2 mixed in? Anyway we dropped Sheard back into zone a zone this year a few times.
I dont like the 3-4 but if you are gonna run it, better to run an attcking 3-4 than well Romeo and Mangini's version.
We did..I saw DJ use a 52 against the Redskins in certain series ..with 2 down linemen and 4 backers...I like the 34 if it's a 1 gap..not the 2 gap that was run here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482 |
Quote:
Raise your hand if you think Jabaal Sheard will be asked to cover receivers (tight ends and backs mostly) on a regular basis?
Any takers? Didn't think so.
Right he won't because he can't, but that's my point. He goes from an every down starter at 43 DE to a 1-2 down situational pass rusher at 34 OLB. Disappointing that our leading pass rusher (of which we don't have many to begin with) now will only see 1/3 of the snaps he did before.
Quote:
Edge pass rushing specialist are very valuable.
Sure they are. I think he could possibly do well in that role too, but we'll still be looking for 2 starting 34 OLB who can play every down.
Quote:
When coming out of college everyone thought Phil Taylor would be drafted as a nose tackle in the 3-4. People were surprised a 4-3 team drafted him.
You're right that people thought Taylor COULD BE a 34 NT during that draft. The problem is we already have Rubin for that spot, who is better suited for it. He played NT at Iowa State and with us under Mangini. Maybe Taylor could transition to being our backup NT (though I question it honestly) but much like with Sheard, how much return on investment are you getting when your former #1 pick is now a BACKUP on the DLine?
Quote:
Also, it was said by Chudzinski that we would be using a "hybrid" defense, meaning the situation will dictate the defense.
Sure we'll probably HAVE to for a couple years until we get the personnel to actually run the 34. Like I said give it 2-3 years.
Quote:
A reminder, we have $47 million in cap room and have to spend it. We will be signing some players.
The sky is not falling. Rubin, Taylor, Winn, Hughes, and Rucker can all play in a 3-4. Sheard can rush the passer.
Heh well IMO we need to sign a vet OG via FA (and draft another). We need to sign a vet WR (not as a starter but more as a mentor for Little and Gordon - think Amendola in the slot). We need to sign a vet CB (because we need 2 and we'll only get 1 starting caliber guy via the draft). That's 3 FA signed already and we haven't gotten to the D front 7 yet.
Besides, the last thing I want to see is a team full of 30 year old FA's just to "patch holes" as temporary fixes. If I wanted that we could have just kept Mangini.
Make no mistake about it, this draft (and possible FA) will NOT give us a good 34 defense next year, and possibly not even the year after that. It's gonna take some serious time to transition.
Again I don't dislike the 34, it's just not a good time to transition when the O is so young, not close to being top level and still needs all the help from the D they can get.
We needed to build not tear down. Switching the defense is a tear down on that side of the football
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Doesnt the chargers already run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 and even some 5-2 mixed in? Anyway we dropped Sheard back into zone a zone this year a few times.
I dont like the 3-4 but if you are gonna run it, better to run an attcking 3-4 than well Romeo and Mangini's version.
ChargerDawg might be able to answer that better, though all the reports say they did.
I seem to recall that under Romeo we ran the NFL's very first ever version of a "bend but don't break" 3-4 defense. 
Of course that was because we didn't have any talent, which has pretty much been the case since the team moved to Maryland...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,864
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,864 |
Is it your opinion that with proper coaching and time to learn and grow, that Taylor can't learn someting new?
I mean, he's an athlete. a damn tough one.
Good head, hard worker. are you saying he can't become what he isn't today simply because he's neer been asked to do it before.
Some of these D players will go,, I have little doubt of that. My guess it will be LB's Fujita, Gocong.. and maybe even DQ since he was never as good in the 3-4 as he was in the 4-3.
So he might be better suited for something other team.. To tell the truth, I'd hate to lose him, but if trading him gets us something that fits better,, I'm good.
Is he a FA? I don't think so.
With the way defenses are played today, I don't see much difference in the two base formations. I mean, they switch it up so much that it gets hard to tell sometimes.
Anyway, Pagano isn't hired yet, so who knows. Neither is Turner (well, at least they've not been announced formely)
I think solid, smart players can learn to adapt. I don't think it's etched in stone that because a player hasn't played a certain scheme, that he can't learn it and excel.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Oh Lord here we go again....going back to the garbage 3-4....the 3-4 D is awful against the run....the only 3-4 D good against the run is the Lebeau/Cowher one-gap 3-4 system and it relies on a lot of run blitzes to do so.
in 9 out of 10 situations the 4-3 is better against the run....and to win the AFC North you have got to stop the run....if we hired Lebeau as DC then sure move to the 3-4, otherwise forget about it...it won't work....
I will NEVErRunderstand why Cleveland coaches have to make things so darn hard on themselves......I have been advocating for years...the Browns need to go back to running a D that is sound, easy for players to pick up, is easy to draft for, and is a proven system.
that system is Monte Kiffins 4-3 over-under D also known as the "Tampa 2"
it is VERY good against the pass (and all you say the NFL is a passing league, so it makes sense) while still being better against the run the 3-4 is....in fact the ONLY way to beat the Tampa 2 is running the ball up the gut, and with Good DT and above average LB thats a very tough boat to row.....finding personel to fill those holes in the Tampa 2 is not hard.
right now we are a Defensive End, a LB, a CB, and a FS away from having a Top 10 Tampa 2 4-3 Defense...which is good enough to win a championship with....
these guys are just making changes for the sake of making changes...in 2001 this D was Top 10 in the NFL, and would have been Top 10 this year if not for Haden's suspensions.....but yes cleveland coaches...the one part of the team that is actually pretty good, lets tear that part apart because we can right?
unreal....we have 80% of the personal needed for a top 7 4-3 D and were going to scrap it...yup that makes perfect sense....
Banner needs to go out and get Monte Kiffin....Triple Dallas offer i don't care, just bring him here...we only need 3 more players on D for a Top 7 4-3 Tampa 2...go get Monte a real D-Coordinator....i don't want to see this team tear apart a good up and coming defense.
This Defense has been the best D play the last two years we have had here since 94 and Bellichik and these guys are going to toss it in the trash......figures....
rookie LB get the
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
i think the 3-4 is awful against the run as well, and is the main reason I hate it now..
will it somewhat confuse a QB? sure.. but stopping the run has to be your number 1 priority in my eyes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Oh Lord here we go again....going back to the garbage 3-4....the 3-4 D is awful against the run....the only 3-4 D good against the run is the Lebeau/Cowher one-gap 3-4 system and it relies on a lot of run blitzes to do so.
49'ers run the 3-4 and rank 4th in the NFL against the rush.
Redskins run the 3-4 and rank 5th in the NFL against the rush.
Chargers run the 3-4 and rank 6th in the NFL against the rush.
Texans run the 3-4 and rank 7th in the NFL against the rush.
As Chris Carter might say....
"C'MON...MAN...."
Quick...if you hit "delete post" in the next four minutes, I'll do the same...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520 |
"Quick...if you hit "delete post" in the next four minutes, I'll do the same... " Can we delete all your posts ? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
All it takes is a private note to a Ref 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
Quote:
Quote:
Oh Lord here we go again....going back to the garbage 3-4....the 3-4 D is awful against the run....the only 3-4 D good against the run is the Lebeau/Cowher one-gap 3-4 system and it relies on a lot of run blitzes to do so.
49'ers run the 3-4 and rank 4th in the NFL against the rush.
Redskins run the 3-4 and rank 5th in the NFL against the rush.
Chargers run the 3-4 and rank 6th in the NFL against the rush.
Texans run the 3-4 and rank 7th in the NFL against the rush.
As Chris Carter might say....
"C'MON...MAN...."
Quick...if you hit "delete post" in the next four minutes, I'll do the same...
Thank you, Mr. Toad.
Pagano is the prevailing thought. From San Diego. Interesting.
Graf. Go watch some actual footage. Hardly any LOLB in a 3-4 is asked to drop very often. And when they do it's a very shallow drop.
Sheard is a Woodley clone. I'm liking this 3-4 switch.
There's a huge reason it didn't work for us before. We never had a quailty starter at the 2 most important spots in a 3-4.
Nose Tackle & Rush OLB.
This would need a couple of upgrades over the next 2 years. Specifically ILB. But if we're smart when it comes to the 6 pick this year we will snag one of the potential studs coming out and take care of that Rush OLB immediately. We have 2 Nose Tackles here.
Go get one of these guys.
Jones
Moore
Jordan
Werner
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,765
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,765 |
I thought Shaun Rogers was a very affective Nose Tackle. As a matter of fact, I'm sure of it!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
Quote:
I thought Shaun Rogers was a very affective Nose Tackle. As a matter of fact, I'm sure of it!
Rogers HATED being a NT in Cleveland. Total waste of his talents.
This dude was one of the baddest Defensive Tackles around until we threw him into a spot he was useless in.
His penetration capabilities were written for being a DT in a 4-3.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,765
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,765 |
I don't disagree that he was better suited for another position. but his combination of size, strength and speed made him very good at the NT position.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,560
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,560 |
The guy also had serious conditioning issues. When he wanted to stud up he was as stout as it gets. The problem with Rogers was he had to take too many breathers.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,404
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,404 |
I agree he had all the physical traits for the 3-4, but in the two gap system we played with him, he left home way too often and left the linebackers out to dry. Davis and Jackson already had enough trouble getting off blocks.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101 |
The Texans must run alot of the hybrid D that Chud talked about because I swear the last game I watched of theirs I saw alot of four man fronts with JJ Watt playing everywhere along the line. The Ravens have moved Ngata to DE in their 3-4 and he and Taylor seem to be of similar size speed etc.( from Ngatas pre draft scouting report he is probably slightly stronger). So why can't Taylor play 3-4 DE?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246 |
Quote:
I would kind of like to see Cromwell retained. I think that he did a great job working with the receivers, and really helped the youngsters really develop.
I agree on keeping Cromwell but I can't think of any reason we should pass up on some of Turners' offensive staff as I would like to see their wide receivers coach, Charlie Joiner, come here. If he becomes available.
Would like to get a look at Hal Hunter as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
The Texans must run alot of the hybrid D that Chud talked about because I swear the last game I watched of theirs I saw alot of four man fronts with JJ Watt playing everywhere along the line. The Ravens have moved Ngata to DE in their 3-4 and he and Taylor seem to be of similar size speed etc.( from Ngatas pre draft scouting report he is probably slightly stronger). So why can't Taylor play 3-4 DE?
Exactly.
It's even been noted we won't run a straight 3-4. It's going to be a hybrid.
Saying the 3-4 stinks and we shouldn't run it is akin to people saying any offense won't work before they've even seen what that offense is.
The facts are that the 3-4 works in the NFL, and teams that use a hybrid of it have success as well.
Taking a wait-and-see instead of Chicken Little'ing (little'ing?  ) is the prudent course of action.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246 |
I would rather run a 3-4 than a 4-3. I am watching these playoff teams and seeing as how they are pass pass pass happy by stretching the field as far as the eye can see, and the mobility of the QB has to be factored in as well. I would much rather have 8 capable defenders on any given down, and would much rather have a speedy LB spying the QB then relying on fat defensive lineman getting the sack.
I almost think I'd rather see a team run nothing but nickels and dime defenses anymore.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
Taking a wait-and-see instead of Chicken Little'ing (little'ing? ) is the prudent course of action.
Or "chitlin" for short
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,653
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,653 |
Quote:
Quote:
Doesnt the chargers already run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 and even some 5-2 mixed in? Anyway we dropped Sheard back into zone a zone this year a few times.
I dont like the 3-4 but if you are gonna run it, better to run an attcking 3-4 than well Romeo and Mangini's version.
ChargerDawg might be able to answer that better, though all the reports say they did.
I seem to recall that under Romeo we ran the NFL's very first ever version of a "bend but don't break" 3-4 defense.
Of course that was because we didn't have any talent, which has pretty much been the case since the team moved to Maryland...
So I probably should chime in...
3-4 or 4-3 it is all about personnel. The Chargers are deeper at the DL right now so have been running some more 4-3 in passing situations. The only real threat as a pass rusher has been Phillips, and to a lesser extent Ingram.
The 3-4 works best when any of the 4 LB's can rush the QB. You need at least 3 for sure to be effective. Donnie Edwards was the classical non-rush (too light in the pants) LB, that would sit back and cover the RB out of the backfield. Same way with DQ when the 3-4 was run in Cleveland. So the difference between attacking and non-attacking is how many LB's pose a legitimate threat as a pass rusher.
I don't like teams that run the 3-4 yet dedicate only one LB to rushing, it is only a modified 4-3 then. Think about how many times you have seen DeMarcus Ware drop back and play coverage. In addition the ideal DE for the 3-4 is about 300 lbs, with good speed, not the 265 lb ends that you see in the 4-3.
I have seen the 3-4 be more effective against the run than a 4-3. It is a pretty good defense, and the stats prove it. San Diego was really stout against the run a few years ago, and Pittsburgh / Baltimore is self evident.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
J/C
As I sat here and read this whole thread,I find it amazing how many board posters know exactly what the staff is going to do.
I watched the same presser, and nowhere did I see him say he was switching to the 3-4. He said numerous times that it depended on the coordinator. So if all you know it all posters who are spouting off like you were in the room with him and Haslam, for God's sake, can you please just wait until someone is hired?
I'm sitting here reading how the 3-4 sucks against the run, but yet the teams best against the run, run the 3-4. For God's sake, we got posters who have them bringing in DA, and saying it as if it is fact. We got posters evaluating the DL as if they are in practice every day.
I don't claim to know a lot, but I do know that the evaluation of players by posters on this board is pitiful. How many bashed Burfict, yet he is a stud at Cincy. A few years ago, I read hos Chad Greenway was a waste, yet he has started for Minny and played very well. A few years ago, John Lynch was a FA, and the braintrust on here called him old and done. He had a probowl year that year, and I believe the following one. Mike Adams was said to be nothing but a back-up, yet, he is starting for Denver and is way better than any FS we have here. John Hughes was said to be terrible pick by Heckert, yet he is a damn good DL.
So while many of you fancy yourselves as the ultimate personnel guys, reality shows a different fact. And while you are so sure that Chud will do everything you say, again, I state, most of you are full of crap.
One thing Chud has on his resume' is the ability to adjust to players strengths. I see no way that he comes in here and completely blows up the defense. IMO, if a change is made, it will be subtle.
JMO
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,864
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,864 |
All right now,, quit messing up our fun will ya
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
Chris Mortensen reporting O-line coach George Warhop will remain with Browns after declining KC job.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482 |
Quote:
Is it your opinion that with proper coaching and time to learn and grow, that Taylor can't learn someting new?
I mean, he's an athlete. a damn tough one.
Good head, hard worker. are you saying he can't become what he isn't today simply because he's neer been asked to do it before.
Well sure he could learn it. But that's starting from square one instead of building on what he already does so well. Not to mention, even if he does adjust, he'll still be behind Rubin IMO. Either way we're looking at yet another #1 pick which is either off the team or in a back-up roll.
Quote:
Anyway, Pagano isn't hired yet, so who knows. Neither is Turner (well, at least they've not been announced formely)
Absolutely. And I hold out hope that whomever we hire as DC just sticks with the 43, at least for a couple years to allow our O to develop. I have no qualms with the 34 in general...in fact I did a study a couple season ago which showed teams that ran the 34 were either REALLY GOOD, like top 6/8 in the NFL or REALLY BAD, like bottom 6/8 in the NFL. Teams than ran the 43 tended to be bunched up in the middle, neither excellent nor terrible.
My conclusion from that analysis was that the 34 IS the superior defense, but ONLY if you have the FO/coaches who can draft and develop the players to fit it, which is much easier said than done.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
It's hard to know how good our position coaches are because we rarely hear about them. With that said, Warhop has been in Cleveland for Mangini, Shurmur, and now Chud. Also, other teams have tried to get him. Both of those things tell me he is probably good at his job.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482 |
Quote:
Quote:
Oh Lord here we go again....going back to the garbage 3-4....the 3-4 D is awful against the run....the only 3-4 D good against the run is the Lebeau/Cowher one-gap 3-4 system and it relies on a lot of run blitzes to do so.
49'ers run the 3-4 and rank 4th in the NFL against the rush.
Redskins run the 3-4 and rank 5th in the NFL against the rush.
Chargers run the 3-4 and rank 6th in the NFL against the rush.
Texans run the 3-4 and rank 7th in the NFL against the rush.
As Chris Carter might say....
"C'MON...MAN...."
Quick...if you hit "delete post" in the next four minutes, I'll do the same...
This. If it's run properly with the right personnel the 34 is superior. Without the right personnel and coaches it can be a disaster. "If" we switch let's hope we're the former...but it will still take time to build.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511 |
Didn't see this posted Quote:
Tony Sparano is scheduled to interview Monday for the Kansas City Chiefs' offensive line coaching job, league sources told ESPN.
The Chiefs and new head coach Andy Reid had been in serious negotiations with George Warhop for the offensive-line job. But Warhop decided to remain with the Cleveland Browns. Warhop has worked previously with Norv Turner, who will be named the Browns' offensive coordinator under new head coach Rob Chudzinski.
Sparano has been in talks with several teams for offensive-line coaching jobs since he was fired as the offensive coordinator of the New York Jets. Sparano was set to visit with the Browns when Warhop decided to stay in that same job with Cleveland.
The Jets were ranked 30th in total offense in Sparano's first and only season in the role, doomed by their unsettled quarterback position.
Mark Sanchez regressed this past season under Sparano and ultimately was removed from the starting spot for Greg McElroy in Week 16.
Sparano also was unable to determine a role for Tim Tebow, who didn't have much of an impact after he was acquired in a trade with the Broncos. New York's Wildcat package was ineffective, and the Jets were unsure how to use Tebow in other packages.
web page
Last edited by jaybird; 01/13/13 04:44 PM.
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
Good move, the OL play has been a constant improvement and he has really did a fine job teaching the youngsters like Lauvao and Schwartz. Pinky I thought greatly improved last year but wasnt the same in camp guess the blood clot issue was effecting him.
Warhop ran a lot more zone when under Turner.
(I meant Pinky improved throughout last year.)
Last edited by Mourgrym; 01/13/13 04:58 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
The Plain Dealer has a link to a story about the Browns refusing other teams' permission to interview Special Teams Coach Chris Tabor.  Phil Dawson did say that he felt that Tabor was getting better and better as his 2nd year went along, so maybe that played into it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
The best think about Warhop staying is that Sparano will not be coming! Gawd if we hired him id be really disappointed. Sparano is a bum...
As for Tabor not being granted interviews...eh...I agree we did improve as time went on, so okay.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Sparano is one of the best o-line coaches in the NFL.
But Warhop is better and knows the talent. So I'm glad he is staying.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
How about Warhop outliving 2 head coaches ... so far.  He was a Mangini hire IIRC. So was Gary Brown, the RB coach ...... and Steve Hagen, the TE coach. Rick Lyle, the Assistant Strength coach was also hire by Mangini. We may blow through head coaches, by we get our money's worth out of the assistants.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
Quote:
Sparano is one of the best o-line coaches in the NFL.
But Warhop is better and knows the talent. So I'm glad he is staying.
Exactly. If Warhop were gone, I'd be really happy with Sparano as OL coach, But I am happier that Warhop is staying.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Coordinators/Assistant Coaches
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
