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Every time he was asked a question about Weeden, he responded with future planes, what he's seen, and so on.
now that's a diversionary tactic. wonder what type of future planes are in store or why Norv has been privvy to seeing some of them (perhaps because of SD's Navy bases?).
yeah, I know it's a typo, but what fun is that 
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I really liked Dwaine Board and the job he has done with Big Phil, Hughes and Kitchen. The great job he did was with Sheard. The guy could not hold containement as a rookie and this year, very little came through his side.
Cullen we will see but it is a downgrade imho even thought I thought 2 years ago their DL played very well. Last year they didnt.
As for the Horton hire, when someone interviewed for HC doesnt get it and then is brought in by the new coach, it is the owner that has made a suggestion. Now Pagano was probably the first choice but I got this feeling that Jimmy wanted the Steeler defense brought in. Anyway Chud wanted aggression and he sure got it.
DJ- I loved this D staff and thought it was top to bottom the best in the league. I do not like the 3-4 but if we are going to run it, I am glad we are running Horton's version of it. I dont see the blow up of the roster but there will be turnover. There would have been anyway and I doubt we lose anyone of value other than PHil Dawson.
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I was never a Jauron fan, and felt that he played a very generic defense that was sometimes too vanilla. I was really concerned when we hired him.
I hated the defenses he ran in the past, and was worried that we would get run over because he always preferred very small, fast OLB. The team actually gave him some bigger LB to work with, and I believe that helped him, especially in the physical AFCN.
All that being said, he did do a solid job with the young defense. They had their breakdowns, but also played well at times.
I'm actually now somewhat torn on him leaving. I have a newfound respect for the 4-3. I am actually a bit worried about transitioning back to a 3-4 base. (and I am a huge fan of the 3-4)
In the end though, I really like Horton as DC. I would have preferred Marinelli, but Horton is a very good pick as well. Horton likes to attack, and is not going to sit back while a team marches down the field to win the game against us. He is going to make them fight for every yard. I do like that attitude.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I am actually a bit worried about transitioning back to a 3-4 base.
May not happen. They may determine, based on our personnel, to stay with a 4-3 base. Whatever the base, they'll run elements of both defenses.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I am actually a bit worried about transitioning back to a 3-4 base.
May not happen. They may determine, based on our personnel, to stay with a 4-3 base. Whatever the base, they'll run elements of both defenses.
That is my hope, because I think that we have the makings of a really good, and just as importantly, really deep DL.
The problem I see is the numbers. In our base 4-3, we carry 9 DL and 6 LB. Typically a 3-4 team reverses that number, and may even carry 10 LB. It's hard to balance both defenses, unless one is a specialty defense, perhaps the 3-4 using a DE as an OLB.
I do think that either defense can be used creatively, dropping players into coverage, and bringing others on the rush in their place. It will be interesting to see how the numbers break out by unit when training camp comes to a close ...... and also where we go in the draft ..... for a pure pass rushing DE .. or an OLB ..... or a DE who can also drop back to play OLB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I thought Jauron (and staff) did well here considering some of the limitations that we had with our roster (especially initially). However, I agree with you that I prefer a more aggressive approach.
I wanted Horton, Lovie, or Marinelli. If all three were off the table, then I would have been happy to bring back Jauron (though I whiffed on Cioffi - he doesn't even have a wiki page entry yet he's been in the NFL for nearly 20yrs. another LeBeau disciple that has had alot of success in his career).
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I am actually a bit worried about transitioning back to a 3-4 base.
May not happen. They may determine, based on our personnel, to stay with a 4-3 base. Whatever the base, they'll run elements of both defenses.
That is my hope, because I think that we have the makings of a really good, and just as importantly, really deep DL.
The problem I see is the numbers. In our base 4-3, we carry 9 DL and 6 LB. Typically a 3-4 team reverses that number, and may even carry 10 LB. It's hard to balance both defenses, unless one is a specialty defense, perhaps the 3-4 using a DE as an OLB.
I do think that either defense can be used creatively, dropping players into coverage, and bringing others on the rush in their place. It will be interesting to see how the numbers break out by unit when training camp comes to a close ...... and also where we go in the draft ..... for a pure pass rushing DE .. or an OLB ..... or a DE who can also drop back to play OLB.
I could see guys like Parker & Rucker being switched out for DE/OLB types just as I could see Taylor and Winn at end, and Sheard at OLB in a 3-4 configuration. I could also see a 4-3 scenario where Sheard a new 4-3 type pass rusher line up on the ends.
I do think we will go after a pass rusher, whether he puts his hand on the ground or drops into coverage will remain to be seen. I'm not all that worried about it. I just want a pass rusher, a solid safety and another CB with some help at LB, whatever base we run, (if that actually matters since we'll likely be running aspects of both).
I also want to see the line standing up on occasion... I really like that amoeba D at times. With the proliferation of the speed O and read option, I could possibly see this as a way to combat it effectively.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Guess we disagree here, but to me a total do-over on the coaching and FO front is more than "very little" change.
I'm not talking about the firings and hirings. That's come and gone.
What I'm saying is that the new regime has done nothing yet. All they've done is pressers. And yet everyone is bickering about whether or not Banner has full control, or Lombardi is a GM or there's a consensus ... and most are basing it off of short statements from pressers.
Let it play out ... I mean, there's nothing wrong with hating the moves we've made, or expecting failure, but it's a little crazy to argue over these things when very little has happened yet.
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You guys seem to be good at hitting the reset button every 2 years, me not so much when I didn't see it as necessary...and this was NOT to that extent
IMO it was necessary for Holmgren to go. Guy was just collecting a check.
Shurmur should've definitely been canned. Guy isn't an NFL coach.
The only one who deserved consideration was Heckert, and the team's performance, coupled with the idiotic Weeden pick, stamped his ticket out of town, IMO.
So, IMO, two should've been gone for sure, and one was on the fence.
Now, am I happy with the new regime on paper? Not really. But I'll save my moaning for when they actually begin to do something.
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Rucker seems like a 3-4 DE. Not sure Parker will be back. Our DL will probably be,
Phil Rubin Winn I suspect will be the starters Rucker rotating frequently at DE. Hughes backs up the NT and then we will have 1 more.
Sheard will go to OLB. DQ in the middle I think Robertson has a chance to be the other inside backer with his speed. Moore or Jarvis Jones opposite Sheard at OLB
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We are in a midst of a TOTAL rebuild that 95% of this board DID NOT want just 1 month ago.
Total rebuild would imply that we are getting rid of all of the players as well. Yet all I'm hearing in all of these press conferences is how good our young talent is. I see most of our young guys sticking. That is not a total rebuild.
Yeah, we're in a rebuild...the extent is not known yet, but that's semantics imho.
It is my opinion that it will be a TOTAL one as I anticipate the clowns to make a lateral move at QB or maybe trading away one of Sheard/Taylor for a 2nd rounder, that would make it a TOTAL rebuild, but as I said...for 25+ teams in the NFL what we did qualifies as a TOTAL rebuild, we're just more "used" to it...new coaches, new decision makers and terminology is as total as it gets already. Every team has a roster turnover of 15-25 guys every season
Talk about ignorant. 
We aren't tearing anything down. You might want to educate yourself about what a "Teardown" constitutes.
YTown. Turner and Chud said exactly what they should have said. They like Weeden's physicals but might bring another QB in and have not named Weeden starter. That's what they should do unlike Shurmer handing him the starters job of which it was obvious game one with Philly he wasn't ready.
Turner is a great QB Coach. Proven over and over again over the years.
My guess is Weeden starts and I would not be surprised to see DA back here for the sole purpose of helping Weeden with this Offense.
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Rubin at end? He's pretty stout in the middle. You may be right about Rucker sticking around, but I bet we pick up a pass rusher to play opposite Sheard, whether it's as a 3-4 LB tweener or a 4-3 DE I have no idea. Horton has worked both systems.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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OC/QB Coach - Norv
RB - ???
WR Coach - Norv's Son
TE Coach - John Embree
OL Coaches - Warhop/Sullivan
Offensive Quality Control - Shane Steichen
DC - Horton
D-Line Coach - Cullen
Inside Linebackers - ???
Outside Linebackers - Brian Baker
DB Coach - Cioffi
ST - Tabor
Our new Tight Ends coach was the head coach at Colorado in 2011 & 2012.
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The Browns have hired John Embree as their tight ends coach and Brian Baker as their outside linebackers coach, a league source confirmed this morning for the Beacon Journal.
The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the Browns have yet to announce the moves.
Embree, 47, spent the past two seasons as the head coach at the University of Colorado, but he was fired in November after compiling a record of 4-21. The bulk of his experience is in the college ranks, though he served as a tight ends coach for the Washington Redskins in 2010 and the Kansas City Chiefs from 2006-08.
Baker, 50, spent the past two seasons as the defensive line coach of the Dallas Cowboys. He has 17 seasons of NFL coaching experience. He has coached primarily defensive line throughout his career, but he served as the Minnesota Vikings’ linebackers coach from 2002-03.
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so, he worked with TonyG, Cooley, and Fred Davis
is there a prominent TE in the NFL that hasn't worked directly with one of our coaches?
(ok, yeah the NE guys and Vernon Davis - it was a joke!)
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I'm glad Embree is getting a shot...
It was heartbreaking the way his tenure ended at Colorado. They didn't give him the time he was told he would be given as the head coach, and that he fought tooth and nail to keep the job but they didnt give it to him, and that he thought it would be his only head coaching chance. Was a real sad story.
I'm really glad he's here, and hope that he can move up the ranks as time goes on.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Well, an ILB and OLB coach means that we will transition completely to the 3-4 over time.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well, an ILB and OLB coach means that we will transition completely to the 3-4 over time.
That's kind of telling, isn't it?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Well, an ILB and OLB coach means that we will transition completely to the 3-4 over time.
That's kind of telling, isn't it?
Don't worry, it's just a "little" rebuild and nothing has happened yet
No need to go 
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I'm glad Embree is getting a shot...
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and hope that he can move up the ranks as time goes on.
I hope he turns Gronkowski into a Gonzales... 
I did like what Hagen did with Watson.. Although Jon has worked with some very good TE's ..
I'm interested in what Chud & Norv have in mind for the TE's
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Well, an ILB and OLB coach means that we will transition completely to the 3-4 over time.
Can you make that transition over time? or is it better to just bite the bullet and make the change... I guess I'm not sure how you have a roster designed around the 4-3, then you start acquiring 3-4 talent but you stick with the 4-3.. It just seems to me that for a couple years, some people are going to have to play out of position..
yebat' Putin
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I'm glad Embree is getting a shot...
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and hope that he can move up the ranks as time goes on.
I hope he turns Gronkowski into a Gonzales...
I did like what Hagen did with Watson.. Although Jon has worked with some very good TE's ..
I'm interested in what Chud & Norv have in mind for the TE's
Well they liked using Gates so hopefully they can get the most out of Cameron, he has a lot of upside and physical gifts, time to see if they can maximize them.
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Well, an ILB and OLB coach means that we will transition completely to the 3-4 over time.
That's kind of telling, isn't it?
Don't worry, it's just a "little" rebuild and nothing has happened yet
No need to go
I actually don't think there is a reason to go I mean seriously. They've said about a thousand times in a week that they will work with what they have. I took that to mean, they will work with what they have until they find what they want.
Seems like a perfect reasonable way to operate.
Next question:
Q: How long will it take you to get the players you want
A: As long as it does
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I like the outside linebacker and inside linebacker coaches idea. The outside guys in a 3-4 are pretty much defensive ends, in that they rush most of the time. In a hybrid defense they will play both standing and with their hand in the ground. Baker has the ability to coach both. Many of the guys Baker has coached have had great success: Quote:
Baker brings 29 years of coaching experience, including 17 on the professional level. He spent the past two seasons (2011-12) as the defensive line coach with the Dallas Cowboys following two seasons (2009-10) as the Carolina Panthers’ defensive line coach. In 2010, defensive end Charles Johnson led the Panthers with 11.5 sacks, which was tied for the fourth-most in the NFL. In 2009, defensive end Julius Peppers led the team with 10.5 sacks en route to a Pro Bowl selection. Prior to arriving in Carolina, Baker spent three seasons (2006-08) coaching the St. Louis Rams’ defensive line. In 2006, defensive end Leonard Little tied for fifth in the league with 13 sacks. Baker spent five seasons with the Minnesota Vikings serving as defensive line coach (2001 and 2004-05) and linebackers coach (2002-03). He helped defensive tackle Kevin Williams earn his first of first of six Pro Bowl selections after recoding a career-best 11.5 sacks in 2004. Prior to Minnesota, Baker was the Detroit Lions’ defensive line coach from 1997-2000. Under his tutelage, defensive linemen Robert Porcher (1997 and 1999) and Luther Elliss (1999 and 2000) were selected to the Pro Bowl. Baker made his NFL coaching debut as the defensive line coach with the San Diego Chargers in 1996 after spending 12 years on the collegiate level.
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i also like the fact that we are bringing in an extremely veteran staff thus far.
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DC - Horton
D-Line Coach - Cullen
Inside Linebackers - ???
Outside Linebackers - Brian Baker
DB Coach - Cioffi
I wonder if they keep Davis on as ILB coach... And is Rhoades still on staff ?
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Well, an ILB and OLB coach means that we will transition completely to the 3-4 over time.
That's kind of telling, isn't it?
Don't worry, it's just a "little" rebuild and nothing has happened yet
No need to go
For the third time ... nothing has happened yet.
And for the record ... if you're going to act like a know-it-all prognosticator, it helps if you have a track record of being right.
IIRC didn't you pimp Gabbert? And Weeden? And thought we were going to have a good season last year?
It's OK to be a know-it-all when you have a track record for being right ... when you don't, it's not a good look.
Again, I'm not too happy about what's going on right now, either. But I'm not about to whine about how our drafts are handled when we've yet to have a draft.
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Former offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski left to become Cleveland’s coach, and two staffers went with him – offensive quality control coach Scott Turner and defensive assistant Bobby Babich.
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For the third time ... nothing has happened yet.
Yeah, "nothing", we just replaced our owner, CEO, HC, OC, DC, D-system and most positional coaches...absolutely "nothing" has happened. You shold tell that to the players like DQ, Sheard and Robertson...I'm sure they'll agree. In every other city that would be enough to label a "teardown"...what it happens in Cleveland, it's "nothing"....hilarious
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And for the record ... if you're going to act like a know-it-all prognosticator, it helps if you have a track record of being right.
IIRC didn't you pimp Gabbert? And Weeden? And thought we were going to have a good season last year?
It's OK to be a know-it-all when you have a track record for being right ... when you don't, it's not a good look.
It's actually more proof of my pretty good track record when all people can come up with is Blaine Gabbert...again and again. This board was waiting for years to have anything to shove back to me. Have fun with Gabbert, I can take it. Considering I make tons of quotable predictions on prospects and the Browns, I'm good with a miss here and there. Should have checked Lombardi first on Gabbert, as it's a pretty safe bet to just go contrarian on him, my bad.
Weeden is far from a bust after 15 starts, but that has been discussed to death...of course no mention that I pimped us to draft Roethlisberger, H.Nicks, Oher, Barwin, MJD, DQwell, Rubin, Ward, Haden, Sheard and many more...I can give you my mock drafts since 2006 for proof. We would have a much better roster today if I was picking players from my PC, sad truth.
As for the 2012 season: I'd like a quote on that, lol. I just said that Vegas had us at 5.5wins and everybody and their Moms were whining us to 2-3 wins max. Turns out Vegas (and me) was pretty spot on, especially considering the amount of close games swinging against us.
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Again, I'm not too happy about what's going on right now, either. But I'm not about to whine about how our drafts are handled when we've yet to have a draft.
Sure, they haven't done anything yet when it comes to moving around players, but the setup is SCREAMING it from the rooftops, that shouldn't be hard to prognosticate. I've heard this song before...."we haven't fired Heckert yet, did we?", "we haven't switched schemes yet, did we?". If you look at this board just 1 months ago, people were going MAD just at the thought of Lombardi working in any capacity for the Browns, of Banner bein the head honcho and a D-switch...now? "nothing has happened"....how much cool aid can you guys take? This looks to me like another episode of "lowered expectations" from this board as a collective, it's depressing to watch unravel. All of a sudden things that were considered incredibly dumb moves are "ok'ed", "let's see" etc etc We're back to "hope" and nothing more
Oh and btw, I'm not trying to make you look like an apologist, I know you aren't, but I can't really believe that you really think "nothing" has happened yet...yeah, you're right on a factual level, as much as the naysayers were "right" that we won't switch to a 3-4 2 weeks ago and I had already said it's a given...pretty much everything I've said since J&J took over has happened and I was trashed on every step of the way for it and got answers like "when it REALLY happens, I'll be with you trashing them"....but I still read tons of apology lovefests for J&J, it's somewhat funny, as if people have forgotten what they just said a week ago.
This isn't about being right or wrong, it's about the Browns making the right things and right now, looking at this setup and what it means for the players..I don't like it one bit and I think I have every right to say so. You seem to think that "nothing" has happened yet, but reality is that A LOT has happened and I'm sure that EVERY player in the building would tell you that. Ask a player what it means that the GM and coaches that got them into this league are gone after only 1 or 2 seasons...ask some front 7 guys that were brought in the past 2 seasons what it means for their careers to be brought in under false pretense and now have to look for another situation while being 2 years older....it's EXACTLY why FAs don't wanna come here, so acting as if "nothing" has happened is naive at best... A LOT has happened
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It's more than nothing, but it's far less than a teardown. 2005 was a tear down.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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From PFT... Browns officially fire Dick Jauron, believe it or not Posted by Darin Gantt on January 28, 2013, 7:49 PM EST This seems like far less than breaking news, but I suppose it is. According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, the Browns “officially” fired defensive coordinator Dick Jauron today. That’s courteous of them, since they hired Ray Horton as defensive coordinator 10 days ago. Letting Jauron twist for so long seems odd, but anyone who was interested in hiring him knew he’d be available about a week and a half ago. web page I did not realize Jauron had not been released yet...maybe there is a good explanation for this action by the Browns front office...hope so, because on the surface we look very tacky.
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They let him know that he could interview for any job he wanted long ago .... so is it really any kind of surprise to anyone at all?
Kind of a non-story. Plus, as bad as anyone may feel for him, he will get paid for the rest of his deal.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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j/k
Maybe they didnt fire / release him 10 days ago was so he could line something else up and still remian on the Browns payroll, and still have insurance.
Maybe he helped the new cordinator with personnel questions and other items people have while starting a new job, Jarons been thru it before, he knows to take nothing personnel, he knows he was hired to be fired.
Sometimes parting ways is done in a way to benifit both parts, dosent always have to be a negative thing.
Last edited by ClayM57; 01/29/13 08:22 AM.
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most companies keep you on insurance through the end of the month regardless (since most insurance companies have them pay the entire month up-front, it doesn't cost anything extra). so, the release would actually be more likely to ensure they don't have to pay his insurance next month.
as for the delay, I don't think it matters. he knew he was gone, others knew he was gone, and he was free to interview anywhere he wanted.
#gmstrong
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Maybe since they were paying him they were trying to negotiate a way for him to stay on in a different capacity than DC... while still giving him the option to interview elsewhere...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Maybe since they were paying him they were trying to negotiate a way for him to stay on in a different capacity than DC... while still giving him the option to interview elsewhere...
Thats kinda what I was thinking. No proof, just a hunch.
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Honestly, I believe the entire coaching staff knew they were history once Haslam named Banner as the man running the team.
Heckert admitted, he knew he was gone the day Haslam bought the team and hinted that Banner would be involved...I believe it was back in August.
I doubt that the coaches ever bought into this notion that Haslam and Banner were "evaluating" and no decisions had been made about who was staying and who would be fired. I believe two coaches were retained and they are probably as surprised as anyone.
The coaches and players went through this entire season with a cloud of uncertainty hanging over their heads. I believe the coaching staff did a good job of coaching these young players to the very end of the season, even though they knew their jobs were history...and the players never quit...
Now the players have to go through the process of not knowing if they are part of the future plans or not. It can't be a great atmosphere at this time...all the uncertainty facing the players, new coaches, new playbooks, new routine.
Haslam is on record saying he believes in building through the draft, but then again, Haslam is not running the team. We could see a flood of free agents brought in to replace the young guys who have been drafted over the last 3 yrs...a move away from the youth movement and change just for the sake of change.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
aslam is on record saying he believes in building through the draft, but then again, Haslam is not running the team. We could see a flood of free agents brought in to replace the young guys who have been drafted over the last 3 yrs...a move away from the youth movement and change just for the sake of change.
yeah, he stepped down as CEO of Pilot so that he could kick his feet up and let someone else run rampant with his billion dollar investment.
cmon now, he hired Banner because he believes that he is knowledgeable and will make good decisions, but there is no way that Haslam is going to sit idle. I don't think he's going to go Jerry Jones on us and meddle in every decision, but I sure as heck do think he is going to set the organizational philosophies and make sure everyone is on the same page.
why are you trying to start fires that don't exist yet?
as far as FA's, we need to sign a few. we are likely going to lose some of our veterans (every team does, moreso when a FO changes), so signing a few more FAs than Heckert did in his time does not mean we are abandoning the youth movement. just want to get this in ahead of time
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Quote:
Haslam is on record saying he believes in building through the draft, but then again, Haslam is not running the team.
If you are Haslam and you want to build through the draft would you hire somebody who didn't have a similar vision to run your team? and then just sit idly by and watch them do it in a way that you disagree with?
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We could see a flood of free agents brought in to replace the young guys who have been drafted over the last 3 yrs......a move away from the youth movement and change just for the sake of change.
We could see a lot of things... we could see ticket prices go up 80%, we could see the team colors changed to green and purple like Barney... both of which are as likely as what you said above.. Haslam has said he wants to build something stable and consistent.. he's not going to sell off young talent for aging veterans just for the sake of change...
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All I know is my contact out in Berea is gone now ( Drat , double drat ) He had Nothing nice ti say about Banner .. Basically , what you see and what you have heard , is what you got !
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Holy Cow man.....you act like we were in contention for the Super Bowl. We sucked, yet you complain at every move.
What gives??
I am sorry it isn't going the way you want it, but from the sound of it you want it like it was, and it sucked.
Just look at the record the past few years.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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