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Said what they wanted to hear. Talked them into a decision made some time back apparently. Stinx.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Jim Nantz is friends with Lombardi so take this with a grain of salt. But he's convinced in Lombardi...pretty compelling stuff. Thanks for the link! 
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OK I din't read through every single post in this thread, BUT I am going to give my opinion anyway. I am almost always upbeat and support the front office, however this time I amm 200 percent against the assinine move we just made. Just look back at any and all drafts this idiot has been in control of and you will see he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. This was by far the wost choice Haslem could have ever made and it makes me wonder if he knows ANYTHING ABOUT the Cleveland Browns? This idiot just sealed his fate in Cleveland and will be known as the next Art Model. Jesus I had no clue just hoe STUPID Jimmy was till now, but I am 120 percent positive he is about to find out. Jimmy good luck with your other business beause I am sure ypour business just dropped 50 percent in this area of the contry you idiot.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Nantz also said Lombadi was "exceptional" at his work with NFL Network. Really? Have you read his draft analyses?
Nantz can say he not biased all he wants, but it was obvious listening to him for one minute that wasn't the case. Let me guess, all those good draft picks for the Raiders the first 3 years (when they had Gruden) were Lombardi's ideas, but after that, Al Davis took over. How can you give credit to the guy for getting the Raiders too the Superbowl but not for the complete collapse of the Raider franchise after that? Someone is drinking the cool-aid...
And giving Heckert crap? He just said the same things Lombardi has said the last year; I wonder where he got his views from. Why didn't he mention Gordon? Winn? Taylor? He goes from saying Weeden could be a pro-bowler under Turner in one sentence to bashing Heckert for taking him in the next. Why didn't we take Russel Wilson? Why didn't 30 other teams not take him?
He sounds like freaking Kendell Storm.
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I will say again that things cannot get worse........however that don't mean these guys are any better. Nothing has placed any confidence with me so far that they are.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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PLEASE PLEASE read over the correct History and see who this IDIOT DRAFTED during his career. He does not have one single draft you could be proud about in all his years of screwing every team this buffone has ever worked for.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I wouldn't put any stock into his career with the Raiders. Al Davis will never be told what to do.
But his record for the Browns speak for itself and is more than damning. Especially when he passed on Sapp...moron.
I am willing to concede that maybe Lombardi has learned something, but I find it highly unlikely.
Joe Banner better know exactly what the hell he is doing, because the honeymoon with the Owner and CEO is 1000% over after this hire. You told the fans they are morons and that the Browns are smarter than everyone else. They better hit homeruns this offseason or it will get ugly for Lombardi.
you had a good run Hank.
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The Browns had something good developing here over the last two years. Heckert was drafting well, and Shurmer, while he made his mistakes, was developing nicely along with the team.
Instead of looking forward to year 3 of what has been a productive rebuild, we are given, well, the garbage we see before us.
How in the world did we go from Tom Heckert running our drafts to Mike Lombardi? - I really can't believe it's true. It's so bad.
Consider that if Haslam had let the Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmer regime have another year to prove itself, right now Tom Heckert would be getting ready for April, and the Browns players would continue familiarizing themselves with the offense and defense. - Come next Fall, anything short of 9 wins would have been unacceptable. At least it would have been something to look forward to.
Now what do we have? Lombardi, out of nowhere now has significant input on our drafts? Our CEO getting into **ing matches with his old buddies? A first time head coach?
As for the coaching staff..
Brad Childress, when he was a head coach, almost had the Minnesota Vikings in the Superbowl. Dick Jauron, when he was a head coach, had the Bears winning the NFC North and in the divisional round of the playoffs.
Now what do we have? Norv Turner had some great success as on OC, but didn't have the same success as a HC that Brad Childress had. - Am I supposed to believe he is an upgrade? And who in their right mind thinks that Horton is an upgrade over Jauron. Is Chud really an upgrade over Shurmer? - Maybe a little bit.
Is there anybody who has a say in the draft process an upgrade over Tom Heckert? - No way.
Face it guys, we got a lot worse in the last couple months. There is no plan in place. We don't deserve this. We deserve better.
Personally, I hope we start 0-10 so that Haslam can get rid of everybody and get the right people here.
I'm serious, and I've been rooting for this team since I was in 5 years old back in the early '80s. I hate what I see before me. For the first time, I'm starting to dislike this team. These people need to go asap. This is complete garbage.
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While I hate the Lombardi hire, you defending Pat Shurmur and Brad Childress is laughable. They were the worst combo in the NFL last year. Norv has proven more in the NFL than Childress ever has. Childress had a monstrosity of a team in Minnesota that got lucky one year. Pat Shurmur was a total buffoon who mismanaged far too many things. For all the love that Heckert gets here, he messed up that huge trade by giving away a pro bowl WR for a very good DT and a backup QB. Look, I do not like Lombardi, but Joe Banner has a record of success as a CEO. Norv Turner has a long history of success as an OC, as does Ray Horton. Chud laid out a plan at his press conference to bring "attacking" football to Cleveland, and that's the motto of both of those coordinators. To say that there is no plan in place is being a blind hater of Lombardi. There is clearly a plan in place to get this team to where it needs to be, the question is can they find the talent? I have serious doubts in Lombardi, but...hoping against hope, I fear, I'm praying the group think technique is both used and successful. If you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to. I CERTAINLY don't like this move whatsoever, but let's not act like the last regime was such a huge loss. Outside of Heckert, who did an above average job, there wasn't a huge amount of success. And, seemingly, this group will get several years together. Go Browns.
you had a good run Hank.
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Before I throw myself off the cliff, I think I'm going to wait for a few months and see just what happens in the up-coming draft. See who's leading and who's taking a behind the scenes roll and how it all develops from there.
There's plenty of time later for cliff diving if it becomes necessary.
#GMSTRONG
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I'm praying the group think technique is both used and successful.
Let me save you some time and energy.. This strategy has already failed. I am 110% sure this will fail here. The only thing we can hope for now is for the team to start 0-10 so that Haslam wakes up and clears house.
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I CERTAINLY don't like this move whatsoever
I feel you here man, but don't downplay it's effects on the team as a whole. These guys are making this team worse.
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but let's not act like the last regime was such a huge loss. Outside of Heckert, who did an above average job, there wasn't a huge amount of success.
What do you mean outside of Heckert? Losing Heckert was very bad, replacing him with Lombardi is ridiculous -It's ridiculous, completely, completely absurd. In addition, don't lose sight of the fact that this team was in almost every game they played, save Denver and Washington. We should have beaten Dallas, we easily could have beaten Baltimore 1/2 games, and we should have beaten Philly. Going into the 2013 season, expectations would have been very, very, high and in my opinion, the team would have fulfilled them. Jauron and Childress would have had another year to plan, the players would have had another year to get familiar with the system and it would have been a great season.
I wish nothing bad to nobody, but I hope that one year from now, Banner is enjoying retirement, and Lombardi is happy back with NFLN, - I mean that.
I hate what I see right now. I hate it.
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It's never too early to start following @TheFakeLombardi on Twitter. Same guy who did the FakePatShurmur. Should be fun.
My son would laugh his butt off at those tweets.
#gmstrong
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Before I throw myself off the cliff, I think I'm going to wait for a few months and see just what happens in the up-coming draft. See who's leading and who's taking a behind the scenes roll and how it all develops from there.
There's plenty of time later for cliff diving if it becomes necessary.
Plus ..... if you wait till a lot of people have jumped, the pile of bodies makes it softer when you land ..... 
I think that we're going to have a very high quality coaching staff. Hopefully that will help offset any mistakes made in player personnel. I also hope that player personnel will be better than I currently believe it will be.
In the end, if it's not ... then it's another few years of losing football. Not like we haven't gone through that for decades now. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I wouldn't put any stock into his career with the Raiders. Al Davis will never be told what to do.
But his record for the Browns speak for itself and is more than damning. Especially when he passed on Sapp...moron.
I am willing to concede that maybe Lombardi has learned something, but I find it highly unlikely.
Joe Banner better know exactly what the hell he is doing, because the honeymoon with the Owner and CEO is 1000% over after this hire. You told the fans they are morons and that the Browns are smarter than everyone else. They better hit homeruns this offseason or it will get ugly for Lombardi.
Take a half an hour and look every single one of this idiots drafts with every team he has ever been with. He has never and I mean NEVER had a single good draft in his life.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I think that we're going to have a very high quality coaching staff. Hopefully that will help offset any mistakes made in player personnel. I also hope that player personnel will be better than I currently believe it will be.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I have no clear thoughts on this hire but I do not have the same sense of dread that all you folks seem to be having about this.
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When was he the final say on any draft. I really don't know. We know he was not in Oakland. So what about Cleveland and Philly?
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It's never too early to start following @TheFakeLombardi on Twitter. Same guy who did the FakePatShurmur. Should be fun.
My son would laugh his butt off at those tweets.
It's a damn shame, but there are already some classics on there.
" Watching Browns game-film. The only guy that I'm really impressed with thus far is Buster Skrine". 
Last edited by jfanent; 01/18/13 09:38 PM.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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For the first time, I'm starting to dislike this team.
You have 31 other flavors to choose from.
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I think that we're going to have a very high quality coaching staff. Hopefully that will help offset any mistakes made in player personnel. I also hope that player personnel will be better than I currently believe it will be.
Ytown, you cannot over come not picking good talent. The NFL nor any other team sport operates like that. You have to have a combination of both! I'm starting to think that Haslam is letting Banner make some BAD decisions. Look, there was only one coach to get, and it was Bruce Arians. Now Chud is a OK pick because of N.Turner backing him up. Ray Horton to me is a stretch because he will WANT to go to a 3-4. That hybrid talk is crap, either you are a 4-3 team or a 3-4 team, NOT BOTH! Now Lombardi! BTW - what has he done to deserve that job?? .. This just is not good.
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I would much rather have Django running our draft room than Lombardi. Yes, seriously.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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When was he the final say on any draft. I really don't know. We know he was not in Oakland. So what about Cleveland and Philly?
look back at his drafts over his entire NFL career. (Just do us both a favor and grab a barf bucket first:) 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! You fools! You idiotic fools!
I watched the presser...they trotted him out there knowing the backlash..and Banner admitted some of it is warranted.
Now whoever Haslam spoke to high up in the NFL , is he really blind to believe that the reason they all told him to hire ML was to make him a winner? Or did he get the biggest PUNKED ever???
My stomach has a pit in it that I can't get rid of today..They knew since Banner was hired what was gonna happen to the GM job..heck it's been reported since August..When I hear WTAM and Triv slam the move and Triv say he doesn't like Lombardi ..U gotta know this ain't gonna be good for someone.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 01/18/13 10:33 PM.
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I think that we're going to have a very high quality coaching staff. Hopefully that will help offset any mistakes made in player personnel. I also hope that player personnel will be better than I currently believe it will be.
Ytown, you cannot over come not picking good talent. The NFL nor any other team sport operates like that. You have to have a combination of both! I'm starting to think that Haslam is letting Banner make some BAD decisions. Look, there was only one coach to get, and it was Bruce Arians. Now Chud is a OK pick because of N.Turner backing him up. Ray Horton to me is a stretch because he will WANT to go to a 3-4. That hybrid talk is crap, either you are a 4-3 team or a 3-4 team, NOT BOTH! Now Lombardi! BTW - what has he done to deserve that job?? .. This just is not good.
I have no idea what he has done in Banner and Haslam's eyes to get the job.
As far as his previous jobs, I know that he wasn't anything approaching the final word in Cleveland the first time around. I remember the story about Belichick wanting a specific player in the infamous draft that brought us Craig Powell. When the player was taken ahead of our spot, Belichick was slamming stuff in the draft room, and then he made the trade down to get Powell. I can't blame that one on Lombardi. I really don't know how much of any of the Cleveland drafts I can blame on Lombardi.
When Lombardi worked with Banner in Philly, Banner said that Lombardi was essential in them grabbing some high quality players.
In Oakland ..... who knows? Al Davis was famous for hiring people to advise him on personnel matters, then ignoring them in favor of his own opinions. He handled veteran contracts there ...... but I really don't if he picked players, or just recommended them.
I do know that this is going to be a different system than in the past.There is no GM. Lombardi will not pick players, but will evaluate players and make recommendations to the CEO and Head Coach.
I do know that Lombardi seems driven to atone for the mistakes of the past, and really seems to want to make things up to the people of Cleveland ..... so hopefully he'll do just that.
In the end, there's nothing I can do about things. If the structure is something along the lines of the Coach, CEO, and Lombardi sit down and go over the team's needs ..... they set priorities ....... Lombardi makes a list of available players in free agency ...... They all sit down and Chud gives his opinion as far as which player fits best, and then Lombardi and Banner go sign him ...... well, I don't have a huge problem with that.
The draft will be a whole different animal, but I think that the head coach will watch a great deal of film on a number of players available at #6. He will probably have a huge influence as to which guy we pick. The further down the draft we go, the more Lombardi will probably be involved. If this team improves, though, we won't see drafts where the entire class makes the roster as rookies. We won't be replacing 22 players in every draft.
In the end, we have gone 5-11, 4-12, 5-11, 5-11, and 4-12 over the past 5 seasons. We haven't been good at all. I hope that this will help us become a great team. I don't know if it will ....... and I am concerned ...... but I have no choice but to hope that these guys can do what needs done.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I remember the story about Belichick wanting a specific player in the infamous draft that brought us Craig Powell. When the player was taken ahead of our spot, Belichick was slamming stuff in the draft room, and then he made the trade down to get Powell.
Kyle Brady.
For whatever reason, Belichick LOVED him.
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I remember the story about Belichick wanting a specific player in the infamous draft that brought us Craig Powell. When the player was taken ahead of our spot, Belichick was slamming stuff in the draft room, and then he made the trade down to get Powell.
Kyle Brady.
For whatever reason, Belichick LOVED him.
That sounds right.
People could put that on Lombardi if they wanted to, but it was 100% Belichick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Man, I just listened to that Jim Nance interview, and he is 150% in on Lombardi.
I think that Nance is possibly the best announcer out of any on TV today. He is absolutely convinced that Lombardi is the right guy for the job.
I guess that I can give Lombardi a year or 2 .... especially since I have no choice but to do so. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't care what Nantz has to say. The fact that the guy has had one interview in five years with as many as 20-30 openings during the same time span says all I need to know on the subject. We were the only one stupid enough to give this guy a job.
As GM said, look at his drafts in the past. He has never been a part of a quality draft.......ever. I know it can be debated how much of a role he had in any of these picks, but to NEVER have been involved in a successful draft?? What the hell makes him qualified to be the leader of a draft board now??
Sorry bro, but I have no excitement at all with this move. Absolute horrible hire. As I posted earlier, it can't get any worse, but that is mainly because we are the new Bungels and quite frankly have sucked since re-birth.............worse doesn't exist.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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sorry for the thread hijack, but hel.... your sig is just frakkin' raw, Dawg!
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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The closest argument I could make is that the 2005 wasn't a total loss.
Again, I'm not arguing his history. I'm not even arguing that he'll do a good job.
I'm praying for adequate...or that he isn't making the final say. I definitely wouldn't put any money on it.
The only defense I can make is that Lombardi did set up what is the current scouting system that the Ravens use. And that's about all I can think of.
I don't think he'll still have that rat attitude, and I'd imagine that there is no chance that Banner would stand for that, as he seems to have the all power ego type. Who knows, I guess I'm praying that the front office can get just enough talent to let the coaches do what they have shown they could do in the NFL.
you had a good run Hank.
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Really? Have you read his draft analyses?
Have you? Because I can't find it anywhere, maybe you can give me a link where I can find it.
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Well ... I'm fairly optimistic about the coaching staff. Uh... as for Lombardi, that mess in Oakland and the Mike Junkin caper concern me but... I'm rooting for him anyway. I guess.
I think that Marty was the power behind the Mike Junkin pick. He loved the kid ..... calling him a "mad dog in a meat market".
Unfortunately, his career was put to sleep about the same time Marty's Browns' career was ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, this is the problem I'm having, too.
However, Terry Pluto nailed it. He said he's willing to give the guy the "chance to fail." I generally take a wait and see approach. Yes, his history is pretty poor. However, maybe he's changed. Only time will tell.
Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it, though.
Here's how I see it.. the Browns will be improved next year because our young guys will have one more year of experience and because I think Chud/Norv will get a lot more out of the talent we already have then Pat did. So we are going to win more games and look better next year regardless of what else happens... the real results of this move will be felt a couple of years later as players contracts may or may not be renewed and as draft picks are expected to contribute... so I think, much like most presidents, Lombardi will get an initial bump in his approval rating because, outside of anything he does, the Browns will look better... then we will see what happens from there... all Lombardi has to do... all he has to do, is pick one solid contributor with the #6 pick in the draft.. that's it. (regardless of who ultimately writes the name on the card) If he can do that one time, he will start his tenure here on a positive note.... If the 3rd round pick and beyond aren't stellar right away, he'll get some latitude because 3rd round guys often don't have big impacts as rookies...
Make one pick.. that's all he has to do.
OK. After sleeping on this and not spewing emotional disgust yesterday, I agree.
Also, is there any VP of Player Personnel people in this league that have Final say? I don't think there is. So that comforts me a little.
The bigger thing being lost in the shuffle is Horton's hiring as the DC here.
Mr. Haslam: You didn't get where you are today by being a misled fool. Make sure Chud, Turner and Horton have a say in what's needed on this team.
I keep telling myself it's gonna be OK. I am now distancing myself from who is in our FO. For the next 2 years I am all about Chud/Turner/Horton.
I feel better already.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 99 |
We just teamed up the two WORST personnel people in all of football. Banner who had a D- and an F in Philly and Lombardi who has never had higher than a D in any draft he had any say in.  Looks like my first hunch was right, Banner put one over on Haslam for sure. He bought this team as strictly a business, it's all about the $$$$, not winning, the city or the fans. At least Lerner really did care and tried it's nothing but, downhill from here on out.  They just want to sell all the new gear they are going to promote, already sold the name and it's only the biginning. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,423
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,423 |
Well ... since I have no choice but to do so, I guess that I'm just going to hope for the best.
Who knows .... maybe the combination will somehow manage to actually work out. It would be really hard for this iteration of the Browns brain trust to be worse than the ones we have had in the past. This team has been so bad for so longÏhat maybe this will work .... and if not, then in another couple of years we'll blow it all up again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101 |
Everyone keeps saying "his" drafts but I see it written nowhere that he was the man that made the final decision on any draft pick. If so where? Because those are the drafts that he should be held accountable for.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
Quote:
Well ... since I have no choice but to do so, I guess that I'm just going to hope for the best.
Who knows .... maybe the combination will somehow manage to actually work out. It would be really hard for this iteration of the Browns brain trust to be worse than the ones we have had in the past. This team has been so bad for so long that maybe this will work .... and if not, then in another couple of years we'll blow it all up again.
That's about all we can do.
I just listened to his presser Part I & II. Banner was asked about Final Say. His response was like this:
If we have 4 people in the draft room and we are split 2 & 2 on a player we will probably not take that player and move onto another in order to get that concensus.
I'm more than fine with that as should everyone.
Now cue the Nay-Sayers. It's never gonna work like that and Banner or Lombardi will have Final Say. LOL.
I know one thing. This is going to be a group effort. And that I can live with.
This is your one shot Lombardi. To make it right with alot of disgruntled fans about you being here. Don't blow it.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lombardi Hired as VP Player
Personnel
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