|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Chud is going to have input, and unlike any other OC that the Browns would have hired, Norv Turner is going to influence Chud. You can bet that Chud and Turner were a package deal, and because of that, they work hand-in-hand, so if Chud likes a guy, Norv will probably like the guy.
But since they are on the "sideline" they won't have a say, right? 
They will look kind of funny on draft day standing out on the sidelines of an empty stadium... 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
I'm starting to think you're an attorney. Let me re-prase... The articles you post are ones that compliment the company line.
Maybe the "company line" is the truth... Your whole stance on when people should tell the truth and when they should give the media-friendly answer and how and when you should be able to believe people is really quite confusing to me.
Quote:
I'm glad they landed the fourth guy on their list since the other 3 got jobs don't won't give them credit for having chud listed below the other ones on their list.
I wish I could find the quote from a reliable source.. myself.. early in the interview process when I said that it didn't matter who we hired, some people.. and yes Pit I was primarily referring to you... would claim that we didn't get the guy we really wanted and we had to settle... ow, I think I strained my arm patting myself on the back.. 
Quote:
Banner already said who will have the final say...... Banner. And he has already hired his boy in Lombardi to run the personnel end. Or is it now the coaches?
So either he's lying just like you accused Holmgren of doing and those two aren't the top dogs in the hunt when it comes to the draft......... or they are.
You choose.
I distinctly remember an interview where Banner explicitly said that he thought the coach should have final say over the roster but if the GM had a particular strength in that area that they would work together, or something to that effect.. the only thing I know of that Banner ever said conclusively was that he and Haslam would make personnel decisions shortly after they bought the team, which I took to mean, until they get their own people in place...
I'd love to see you do 1000 interviews and never once appear to have contradicted yourself.. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I still haven't heard a peep about how that supposed "company line", if true, is making sense with what is going on ever since between Lurie and Banner...doesn't add up, there goes this narrative
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
The more I read, the more I think he is just trolling.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
I'm starting to think you're an attorney. Let me re-prase... The articles you post are ones that compliment the company line.
Well...yeah. 
Quote:
I can't speak for dj. What I don't buy into is his "bestie" was first in line to get the axe, no.
That's fine, but when your the owner of a team that represents a ticking time-bomb, and you're down to the last part of a losing season knowing that you have to make changes, do you fire:
A) The head coach that the players and fans love
B) The newly hired, GM-in-training
C) The despised "numbers guy" whom the fans and media hated
I think the answer was pretty easy for Lurie and anyone else to see.
If you wanna win back the fans, you ax the guy the fans don't like.
Quote:
Winning keeps the fans.
Elementary.
I'm sure that's what our current FO's plans are. Or do you think they hired Lombardi to "keep the fans"?
The Eagles didn't win so they were losing the fans.
And what in the world does us hiring Lombardi have to do with the Eagles and Banner?! 
Quote:
Sure we do. Banner is being honest he'll be pulling the strings unlike Holmgren did. You sat right there and claimed Holmgren was dishonest about it but Banner explained it.
"Pulling strings" huh? That term infers deceit, lies, and manipulation. Since Banner has been very forthcoming when he states he's going to only be the tie-breaker, I think you're trying to see something in this that doesn't exist.
If you don't like the idea of Banner having a say in football matters while representing the tie-breaking word, that's perfectly fine and perfectly reasonable, but that's not the same as "pulling strings." That's what Holmgren did.
Quote:
I hold them accountable so far for Lombardi. A guy you know as well as I do is totally unqualified for the position.
What moves has Lombardi made here with this regime? What role will he play? What are his job descriptions? Nobody knows exactly what he's going to do and hasn't made one move yet. You cannot hold someone accountable for moves they haven't made, nor can you hold their employer accountable when the employee hasn't made a move.
Beyond that, it appears people around the league are going to bat for Lombardi. I wasn't expecting that. Perhaps waiting until he actually does something would be prudent.
Quote:
Banner already said who will have the final say...... Banner. And he has already hired his boy in Lombardi to run the personnel end. Or is it now the coaches?
So either he's lying just like you accused Holmgren of doing and those two aren't the top dogs in the hunt when it comes to the draft......... or they are.
You choose.
Actually, here's what Banner REALLY said:
Quote:
Banner dismissed any notion he would have final authority on personnel decisions, reiterating it will be a collective effort.
"We're going to have a group that's now rounded out that's going to collaborate on these decisions and we're going to try to draft a consensus," he said. "We probably won't do things about which we don't have consensus."
So I have to choose between choices that you've given me? That either Banner and Lombardi are going to call the shots or they are liars?
How generous of you.
What I choose to believe is that it's all based on consensus until I see otherwise. Banner says he'll only have "final say" if there's a big tie-break that has to be made. Beyond that? Nobody knows what Lombardi's job description actually is, and whether or not he has more say than the coach. Those who do claim to know are making assumptions and those are very dangerous things.
Afterall, Chip Kelly was assumed to be our head coach...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Fwiw, I already debunked that myth, as Roseman was at least as "suspect" to the fans as Banner
You didn't debunk anything. Nobody was as hated in Philly as Banner, and it wasn't close.
I'm going to debunk several of your beliefs with one article. It'll show how badly Philly hated Banner while simultaneously showing why Lurie had to fire him. Enjoy:
Quote:
Joe Banner: Great businessman but terrible PR
things finally came to a head during the Eagles meetings after the 2011 season. Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie took Banner’s advice about not continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.
Lurie decided that he wanted to change the face of the Philadelphia Eagles. He saw the way the Phillies were loved and was tired of his team being the most hated sports team in Philadelphia.
This meant removing President Joe Banner as one of the faces of the organization. It also meant demanding that head coach Andy Reid become more media-friendly and available.
Reid couldn’t have been happy about the DeSean Jackson contract situation. I think he feels it could have been avoided.
The Eagles resigned all of their players and they were willing to do it without “winning” each negotiation. They were more willing to give in to their players, especially if they had been productive. Reid was on the side of not having a war with each and every player during the negotiations.
Any survey of Eagles fans or Philadelphia sports fans would show that Banner is one of the most disliked individuals in Philadelphia sports.
So...yeah.
Quote:
So, if this was a PR move to appease the fans, the easy move would have been to ax Roseman
Good thing you aren't running the Eagles. The fans would come to your house, pull you out, and march you down the street mob-style.
You just fired the wrong guy at the wrong time. Epic fail.
Quote:
Keep ignoring what Lurie said about making notes for years WHO in the building wanted WHO.
So if you're Lurie you fire Roseman, even though you've rated him as the best guy in the building at drafting??
x2
Your football organization is circling the drain. 
Quote:
It's strange Toad, the way this unfolded and the FO setup was exactly what NOBODY wanted in here, even you I'm sure....so now that it's here, you're still defending this mess with "nobody knows the REAL set up of this"....you've hitched your cart to that weasel and now just can't let go, huh?
Nah, you're the guy that lambastes people for having the audacity to change their opinions, where you demand they make a choice and stick by it come Hell or high-water.
I approve of Banner the businessman, and based on the likes of Chud, Turner, and Horton, I'm very enthusiastic about watching this thing grow. Lombardi wouldn't have been a guy I'd have wanted in here, but he's not the GM. His level of control isn't what people think it is. He just one of several voices, not THE voice, and because of that I'm less concerned about his role.
See, that's the difference between us. You want to deal with absolutes. You want to paint me as going down with the ship because you're assuming you know what I'm thinking.  I suppose that's a sign of respect, since you obviously view me as smart as you, and since you don't approve, it's illogical and irreconcilable that I wouldn't absolutely hate what's happened.
Thanks.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Me thinks you haven't gotten my point about Lurie making notes...my point was that he fired Banner because of incompetency...BECAUSE he was making notes and knew Roseman was better at it than Banner. I said he could have fired Roseman to discredit YOUR argument that he needed a PR push. He could have simply fired Roseman, who I know for a fact (know numerous diehard knowledgable Eagles fans) was seen as "suspect" or "incomplete" since nobody knew him and he was successing a well liked and respected guy named Heckert You said he fired Banner for PR, my standpoint has been all along that he fired him for incompetency and/or becoming power hungry on the personnel side. Lurie saw that Roseman was better at evaluating and fired the guy who only wanted to use him as a puppet....the fan dislike becomes a "welcome side effect". You don't just cut out a 40+yo friendship to appease the fans....hell, we got shoved Lombardi down our throats...did Haslam care what we think of it? Got it now McFly? As for Lombardi's role: Haslam had a couple of slip of the tongue moments and called Lombardi "general manager" in his intro presser...whatever that might mean. It's a pretty safe bet that he and Banner will oversee the big board As for the "consensus": ok, you seem to be content that they aren't the only voice...so tell me again which one of those "voices" you're confident in to "make up" for them? Haslam? Rookie HC? When I predicted this mess of a setup you defended your fence riding with "no evidence that Banner will have any say" since he was either bringing in a strong HC or strong GM type....now that this ship has sailed and the evidence has mounted that Banner in fact will be the de facto GM with a puppet, you paddle back to "we don't know how it really works"...so yeah, I'm kinda curious to know why you defend Banner to the core. Not because I care as much about your opinion, in fact I'm pretty confident in my own views and could care less about others. With me it's all about making a good and consistent point and you simply don't make any, mainly because you don't make many at all, hence the fence riding... back to Banner: is it because you hitched your cart to him (talk about absolutes)?...same thing was evident in the epic TRich-Weeden debates. I haven't read ONCE one single negative thing about TRIch...I at least was consistent with my boom/bust on Weeden. So who's thinking in "absolutes" here? You seem to be the one defeding whatever you said from the beginning, even if what you pre-supposed has crumbled since. I don't suppose to think what you think, that's why I want it white on black. Stupid me thought that's the whole point of a message board. Guess you over-played your fence riding and now start getting called out for it. Your psychology 101 is neat, but I push you because I can't stand your opportunistic/hindsight posting style. Many on here see through that by now, but I'm here to make sure you put your neck out instead of "hiding" behind semantics and "what I really meant was" rhetoric...because that's where you're least comfortable and get exposed the most. To be honest, I do it for pure entertainment...it's funny when a Frog tries to sell a croak for a song
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Me thinks you haven't gotten my point about Lurie making notes...my point was that he fired Banner because of incompetency...BECAUSE he was making notes and knew Roseman was better at it than Banner.
That ignores more than a decade of decided success. Banner was fired because they made the wrong push with the wrong people for one last shot at a super bowl, a move they had no choice but to make.
Furthermore, Lurie's comments were as much or more about Roseman over Reid, not Banner, since Banner didn't have anything to do with the 2012 draft.
Quote:
You said he fired Banner for PR, my standpoint has been all along that he fired him for incompetency
You're subtly trying to swing Banner over to the level of a complete dolt. His resume says otherwise. However, my points are that Banner was fired for his failure with the big-push AS WELL AS for a PR move. My reasonings are more well-rounded and objective.
You say it's just for "incompetency" and therefore are far from well-rounded and objective.
Quote:
As for the "consensus": ok, you seem to be content that they aren't the only voice...so tell me again which one of those "voices" you're confident in to "make up" for them? Haslam? Rookie HC?
Chud and Turner are well-rounded coaches. Horton knows defense. Each guy knows his unit. Their resume's suggest they know their stuff. Turner surely does, of that there's no dispute. I also maintain that Banner had more input than any of us knew, which leads to the next point...
Quote:
When I predicted this mess of a setup you defended your fence riding with "no evidence that Banner will have any say" since he was either bringing in a strong HC or strong GM type....now that this ship has sailed and the evidence has mounted that Banner in fact will be the de facto GM with a puppet, you paddle back to "we don't know how it really works"...
Because I'm man enough to admit when I'm not in possession of the entire picture.
Your reference of my beliefs that Banner wouldn't have any say were based on the (wrong) belief that he didn't have any say in Philly. Since I uttered those words, it has been proven otherwise. Since he did have say, he has experience, and since he has experience, I'm less concerned with his role in decisions.
See how that works?
Of course it's just wrong for anyone to suggest they don't know the entire picture, and therefore take a wait-and-see approach. That flies in the face of your stance that people have to make a claim and stick by it until death.
Feel free to walk away from your belief's in Gabbert, Freeman, and Sanchez at any time. I won't hold it against you in the way you hold it against other posters.
Quote:
I at least was consistent with my boom/bust on Weeden.
 
Yeah...you sure are consistent...
"I'M TELLING YOU ALL RIGHT NOW...AND YOU CAN WRITE THIS IN STONE...WEEDEN WILL EITHER FAIL OR SUCCEED!!! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!!!!!!"
Oh boy...thanks for that man. I have to head to work and needed a great laugh.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216 |
Quote:
Maybe the "company line" is the truth... Your whole stance on when people should tell the truth and when they should give the media-friendly answer and how and when you should be able to believe people is really quite confusing to me.
Like I said, Banner says he has the final say. ie... Everyone has to answer to Banner. You can be honest in a politicly correct manner. So if we are to believe them, even in their politicly correct form, Banner is the decider
I don't see what's so confusing about giving an honest yet PC answer. It appears you seem to find it hard to mesh the two.
Quote:
I wish I could find the quote from a reliable source.. myself.. early in the interview process when I said that it didn't matter who we hired, some people.. and yes Pit I was primarily referring to you... would claim that we didn't get the guy we really wanted and we had to settle... ow, I think I strained my arm patting myself on the back..
I guess I would have to give you credit in creating the perfect loophole and strategy against anyone and everyone who would question the results. Not that it really means anything. I've seen that tactic used before. I think in your circles they may call that a pre-emptive strike. But luckily, even by your own admission you tried to use it as some kind of set up.
Quote:
I distinctly remember an interview where Banner explicitly said that he thought the coach should have final say over the roster but if the GM had a particular strength in that area that they would work together, or something to that effect.. the only thing I know of that Banner ever said conclusively was that he and Haslam would make personnel decisions shortly after they bought the team, which I took to mean, until they get their own people in place...
So setting the roster equates to drafting the players? I thought you hired a GM or PP guy to handle the draft and the HC handled the roster? They are nowhere nearly one in the same thing. I'm pretty sure that GM's don't set the roster on game day.
Quote:
I'd love to see you do 1000 interviews and never once appear to have contradicted yourself..
It's not that difficult if you have a simplified version of the truth and stick to it. But I can see how in this case that may be too simplistic to fess up to....... Maybe this will help clear up what was stated above........
Quote:
“We made the determination that the greater impact on our future was going to be the head coach, that we need to make sure we find two people that fit together well and complement each other well and that we wanted the skill set of the head coach to kind of drive what we’d be looking for in the position that we would hire after that,” Banner said. “Time will tell if that’s right and if we can find the right two people that are both high quality and fit together as well as we hope.”
Banner said the coach could be the ultimate authority when it comes to drafting, signing and trading players, but it all depends on who’s hired. Either way, football operations will report to Banner, so he’ll wield significant power in those areas.
Banner is the Decider
Now unless you somehow feel they're going to let a first time HC the final say in the draft, I would think this speaks volumes. As I mentioned above, the HC will have the final say on the roster.
Quote:
On Friday, Banner said, “I understand that I’m going out on the limb by myself” by hiring Lombardi......
Since he understands the risk, who should ultimately be held accountable if Lombardi fails?
I really think it's funny how they hire Lombardi to do a job, but before it even starts, damage control is being done to indicate they will be paying millions to him to do a job they won't let him do.
Banner gets boo koo bucks and Lombardi gets boo koo bucks. Everything must go through Banner. Yet somehow Chud will have a major say in who we draft?
Very imaginative stuff there! I give you an A in creativity!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 6
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 6 |
If Joe Banner has final say on your personnel, I truly feel sorry for Browns fans....really sorry.
Last edited by McMVP; 01/22/13 06:38 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
I'm lost ... did he call himself 'the decider' at some point?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
If Joe Banner has final say on your personnel, I truly feel sorry for Browns fans....really sorry.
Thanks 
He's hiding behind some obscure "consensus" term and my biggest fear is coming true: Haslam and Banner playing hands-on GM with the Browns.
We now are led by the "triumvirate" of Haslam, Banner and Lombardi when it comes to player aquisitions....3 inflated EGOs that have no business to be in this position
Go Browns...I guess
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
I know what Banner said when asked about how they will decide in case of a difference..Haslam should NOT be making any decisions at all regarding drafting players.
Period.
I don't like Banner doing it but the reality is,there isn't anyone else who is set up to do that but that him.
They put people in to do things under JB. So he constructed things so he's got the power.
I certainly don't don't want Lombardo calling the shots.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216 |
Quote:
I'm lost ... did he call himself 'the decider' at some point?
Banner said the coach could be the ultimate authority when it comes to drafting, signing and trading players, but it all depends on who’s hired. Either way, football operations will report to Banner, so he’ll wield significant power in those areas.
All Football Operations Report to Banner
Banner has diagramed an organization chart that calls for football operations to report to him. That means Heckert’s position will be replaced by a glorified player personnel director who will work closely with Banner. He may win some battles but ultimately he will have no real authority to establish a vision, pick players or make trades. Banner will set the agenda.
All Football Operations Report to Banner
Haslam made Banner "The Decider". You can call it whatever you want to.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Eagles' Jeffrey Lurie, Browns CEO
Joe Banner trade jabs
|
|
