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I think you are referring to James-Micheal Johnson?
I don't see Robertson as an ILB.
Robertson would have no problem playing the position. You could cycle in JMJ, L.J. Fort and Acho into the mix as well.
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Robertson would get destroyed as a 220# ILB in a 3-4.
Even JMJ probably needs to add a few pounds at 240. However, he's probably the closest we have to a 2nd ILB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Robertson would get destroyed as a 220# ILB in a 3-4.
Even JMJ probably needs to add a few pounds at 240. However, he's probably the closest we have to a 2nd ILB.
B.S.
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for one, you forgot Gocong.
also, see Daryl Washington. it depends on the player and the system for how big you truly need to be.
#gmstrong
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Robertson would get destroyed as a 220# ILB in a 3-4.
Even JMJ probably needs to add a few pounds at 240. However, he's probably the closest we have to a 2nd ILB.
B.S.
What do you mean? How do except any LBer to be good at 240 pounds, especially when he's 5'11...
Oh wait, that was Zach Thomas (13 seasons, 1,700+ tackles)
People get too caught up on measurables...
If they can play, they can play..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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People seem to think we will be running the Mangini/Romeo 3-4 again. That is far from the case. Horton's scheme is based on speed and attacking. Washington looks smaller than Robertson and he did pretty good for Horton.
It is not a stand your ground discipline defense. Horton blitzes more than anyone in the league and most of his backers are probably same size or smaller than ours. I would not be surprised at all if Robertson and DQ aren't our starting inside backers.
Rush backer is the big thing we need. Hell Sheard probably dropped into coverage more this year than he will next year. Horton's defense gets after it. Hell dont be surprised to see 170lbs of buster skrine blitzing.
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Robertson would get destroyed as a 220# ILB in a 3-4.
Even JMJ probably needs to add a few pounds at 240. However, he's probably the closest we have to a 2nd ILB.
B.S.
What do you mean? How do except any LBer to be good at 240 pounds, especially when he's 5'11...
Oh wait, that was Zach Thomas (13 seasons, 1,700+ tackles)
People get too caught up on measurables...
If they can play, they can play..
Yep ...in most cases I would agree with you. However, in the 3-4, the OLB have to be able to take on an OT. They can't be a 220-230# LB .... which is what Robertson is.
Actually, Fort is 230 as well ..... as is Maiava. Carter is 235#. The 3-4 typically calls for larger OLB than the 4-3.
If you look at the Cardinals defense from last year, the OLB were 265 and 257#. Washington is a smallish ILB for the 3-4, but Horton made him work. I did not watch a lot of Cardinals games, but I would assume that Horton used him as the primary blitzer as opposed to using an OLB.
However, most of our OLB candidates are in that smaller size. That generally does not work in the 3-4.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think Heckert did a above average job.
Agreed.... but for different reasons than you might have. (Explanation to follow-)
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But at the end of the day,in his 3 years as GM of the Browns,he failed to close the gap on the rest of the AFC North.
Disagree. The games we play in-conference are much tighter and much more competitive. That, to me- is progress. There is no tougher division (historically) than AFCN. Play these teams close... and you're a player in this league. Split a series with them, and you're close. Heckert got us close. (In 2.... not 3 years. Don't be stupid enough to forget that in Year One of his post as GM, he was still drafting for a Mangini-led team.... while still trying to stock us for the future.)
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You are what your record is.
Yes... and no. If you are a superficial "just the facts, Ma'am" type, it works. If you are a student of the team, its dynamics, the way it plays even in a loss.... you come to different conclusions (see above response). I've witnessed this team "give up" entirely, mid-season under previous regimes. Heckert picked an entirely different type of player to populate this team. We have NO Gerard Warrens on this team now- NONE. No Braylon Edwards'. No Kellen Winslows. No Antonio Bryants. No "locker room cancers"... and the team is competitive in almost every game it plays. THAT'S ON YOUR GM, son. Have you truly forgotten how dysfunctional we were? Even with so-called "top-tier talent" at "impact spots?" I certainly haven't.
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The ones that feel it odd that Heckert is out of work now are the ones who over rated his body of work in the 1st place.
How about those of us who feel that Heckert was ousted DESPITE his body of work? I don't see how anyone who follows the Browns regularly could look at the 2012 team as anything other than promising, despite their record. After years of being too old, too slow, too "soft," too weak, too "patched-together" and too substandard, we finally got to watch a team that stayed in every single game but 2. Their talent kept them in games that would have been double-digit blowouts in the past. Their youth and inexperience (and Shurmer's youth and inexperience) is what gave us the 5-11 record.... NOT a lack of talent. The record rests on the shoulders of the team and HC. The talent acquisition was Heckert's. Big difference there.
A GM can only put the pieces in place. What the coaching staff does with them from Mon-Sat determines the final record. How thick must one be to not see this?
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why would a team hire Heckert now? so they can go through the trials of a 5 year plan and not see progress?
They'd hire him to do exactly what he did here... if they were as woeful as the Browns were when he arrived. Do you forget how awful we were when H3 came aboard? Do you seriously forget how bad we all felt when Randy brought out The Big Broom... and hired Mike to "reset" us? The difference is this: If I was a Noob owner, and saw the difference in play from Year One to Year Three that we have seen.... I'd stay the course- and let the man complete what he started.... and that's My Problem with the choices that Jimmy Haslam has made- he hasn't seen the Browns under the same microscope that we fans have. He was busy with the Stoolz and his truck stops until he bought the team. Now, because he needs to get up-to-date... and fast- he's hired Joe Banner to do it for him. Exit Heckert- because of 'personal history'. IMHO- Jimmy's second Big Mistake as Rookie Owner. His first- Joe Banner, as CEO.
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3 year plans are the new 5 year plans.
Yep.... and that's all we've ever seen here in Cleveland since The Return. Average life expectancy for a FO/coaching regime in Cleveland is 2.5 years. Let me repeat that, because you seem to need help at this time.
TWO.
Point.
Five.
Years.
You can't even grow a decently-productive garden in 2.5 years. What makes you think that you can grow a perennial playoff-bound NFL team in that much time?
So I ask you: how well has your "3-year plan" worked out for us? With the crap-pile we've been fielding (by constantly re-tooling, from top-to-bottom?)
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If Heckert was any good,Haslam and Banner would have retained him.
Pure speculation/projection on your part- and without addressing any of the other possible reasons why such a thing came to pass. It's been suggested even in this thread that Heckert's competence wasn't really at issue.... decision-making and control were. Heck... it's shhown up in almost every thread since JH announced that Banner would be CEO.
But that's OK.... see what you want to see. Close your eyes, plug your index fingers into your ears and repeat "I can't hear yoooooou...." til your heart's content. It won't change a single thing about what Heckert did, or why he's no longer here.
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Warhop and the special teams coached were retained. why?
cause they are good at what they do.
Yup. Agreed. AND.... they weren't direct threats to the new CEO's authority/influence on draft day. One has nothing to do with the other. Warhop and Tabor weren't making decisions that effect the entire team- Heckert was.
Any way you slice it, Haslam made his bed when he chose to lie down in it with Banner [shudder.... now I'll NEVER get that image out of my mind-] There was absolutely no way that Heck and Banner would work together, unless Jimmy played Big Boss... and said: "make this work."
I believe that Jimmy, as a rookie owner, hitched himself to Joe, to help him transition into the world of NFL ownership (for better or worse), and isn't secure enough to force a 'power play' over his hand-picked "facilitator" this early in the game. Exit Heckert. I personally think it's a mistake... and that J&J should have found a way to work with Heckert for the remainder of his contract. Why? because 3-year plans yield a "flash-in-the-pan" one-and-done playoff contender. 5-year plans set the table for repeated playoff appearances.
All you really have to do is look around the League to see who's always there.... and who comes and goes. Would you really rather the Browns look like Tampa Bay- or New England? Pittsburgh? Indy?
Damn, man... you really like your "Life Answers" to be- simple,-don't you?
Quick brick to the head for you: Life doesn't work that way- except in MaddenWorld.
[shakes head slowly]
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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JMJ and Roberston (according to Wikipedia and the Steelers website) are both the same size as Harrison and Timmons.
Put on 20-30 pounds and they are in Woodley territory.
I think Harrison and Timmons do well enough for themselves at 6'-6'1 and 230-240 lbs
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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How many ILB can we play at one time?
I suspect that JMJ and DQ will be our ILB ..... maybe Sheard drops back to play OLB, and we find another in the draft for the other side. Robertson will probably find a role in the nickel and dime. just don't see a lot of 3-4 OLB on this roster though. Maiava might be the closest .... and that scares the crap out of me.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Is anyone on this roster Clay Matthews jr or Von Miller?
No. Of course not. Because if they were our 4-3 would of been that much better.
We needed LBer(s) regardless of what defense we ran. But let's say we don't get a Jarvis Jones or an Anthony Spencer.
You're assuming we're going to just trot out our current LBer core in a straight 3-4 set and send guys like Robertson and Miava at LTs all game.
I seriously doubt that.
Chud used the word "hybrid" and Horton had my favorite quote regarding scheme. It doesn't matter.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I suspect we will have Jackson and someone not currently on the roster as our inside linebackers. Sheard and someone not on the roster will be on the outside.
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Are there many converted DE's to OLB that are successful?
I'm wary of ever trying to convert a player. But I don't know how well it works league wide.
Thoughts?
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Are there many converted DE's to OLB that are successful?
I'm wary of ever trying to convert a player. But I don't know how well it works league wide.
Thoughts?
Kam Wimbley.
Oh wait you said successful.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis did it this year for the Colts this year. Freeney had 5 sacks in 14 games, Mathis had 8 in 12 games. Andre Carter failed miserably at moving to outside linebacker. Dumervil went from DE to OLB and now back to DE. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Coming out of college many people had Sheard becoming an OLB in a 3-4. Link (Video) Quote:
Jabaal Sheard is a tweener who could potentially play either defensive end or outside linebacker in the NFL. He's a little small for defensive end, but has the potential to add some bulk without sacrificing much speed or agility. What he does have is an explosiveness off the edge that will be very attractive to NFL scouts. And he looks like a natural for the rush linebacker position in a 3-4 set.
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All those wanting to trust him , I got one question for ya..with all the GM openings from 2008 up till now,why didn't someone hire him before this???
Maybe he wasn't ready for the job? He was interviewed by the 49ers in 2011.
Don't say that. That can't possibly be true. (Sarc Off)
Could it be that he was happy at that time with his cushy Network job? No. That couldn't be either.
The guy's getting his next chance at an almost primo job. Why almost? Because we did not give him full control.
It's funny how alot of guys around the league have good things to say about Lombo. Maybe. Just maybe they see the guy has learned over the past 5-7 years? No. That can't be true either.
We're doomed. And our new owner and Pres are worthless. 
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U miss my point.. he wasn't expecting the media to throw his remarks back at him and exploit his so called evaluations..in case U don't know he's poo-poo'd the Browns draft and the move to take Gordon.
Dude is a snake.
And? He also poo-pood us moving up 1 spot to take a RB. And poo-pood taking Weeden at 22.
Many people poo-pood those same 3 moves. Why?
Gordon was a major risk. There's no doubt about that one.
Richardson. Many thought he'd be there at 4 anyways.
Weeden. Everyone thought we should have waited until 37.
And I do remember him saying he thought Gabbert would be the best QB to come out of the 2011 draft. So what. That was the weakest class in years. Guys went way higher than they should have including Locker and Ponder. Others thought Newton would fall flat on his face. Which may not be too far from the truth because he struck me as a very weak individual this year when up against adversity.
I know exactly what you and some others are setting up to do in April's Draft. You'll recognize the name at 6 but may not recognize the names in rounds 3-7 and you'll bring out the ole' "I could've done better than that" card.
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^this
I am very happy Heckert has not gotten another job. That has helped us tremendously in keeping our scouting team together. With the addition of Chud, Turner, and Horton...as long as Lombardi and Banner aren't strongly steering, we should turn out okay.
I can't say I disagree with Lombardi about Richardson or Weeden. They have question marks for where they were drafted in terms of value and injury history.
Gordon is a significant risk as a second round pick, but man his body and his hands totally fit the bill. It is possible he slips back into the ganja this off season. Honestly I want a Randy ratio with this guy on Chuds offense. We didn't get enough testing of his 1 on 1 toss ups (oddly they went to benjamin). I want to see this guy winning 1 on 1 contests over and over again.
I think Heckert did a pretty good job. I am not happy having Richardson and Hardesty on the same squad. I think we could have possibly snagged a quality FS or RDE at those spots. I don't see either being a huge upgrade over any scrub. Sort of my value slant, RB's should always be late round - FA.
There is a strong possibility Weeden works out beautifully in Chud's offense. If that is the case I don't see many glaring deficiencies in our team or how we have drafted. I would be very confused to see the team pick up a QB in the 1st. I doubt Chud or Turner would advise that.
I think if they do this thing by committee we have a decent shot at having fantastic drafts. I have a bit more faith in Lombardi than I do Banner at this point.
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It's funny how alot of guys around the league have good things to say about Lombo. Maybe. Just maybe they see the guy has learned over the past 5-7 years? No. That can't be true either.
 So, you (and others) are saying the hiring thought process went like this:
"Even though he has a crap draft record and had accomplished very little in 3 other stints in the NFL, other NFL people have said good things about him! .... and he might have learned something! Sounds good to me! No point in interviewing anyone else! Let's hire him!"
Now that is precisely the storyline we were given, and you wonder why people are ticked off? 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Robertson would get destroyed as a 220# ILB in a 3-4.
Even JMJ probably needs to add a few pounds at 240. However, he's probably the closest we have to a 2nd ILB.
What do you mean? How do except any LBer to be good at 240 pounds, especially when he's 5'11...
Oh wait, that was Zach Thomas (13 seasons, 1,700+ tackles)
People get too caught up on measurables...
If they can play, they can play..
What you just said is exactly what I mean.
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How many ILB can we play at one time?
I suspect that JMJ and DQ will be our ILB ..... maybe Sheard drops back to play OLB, and we find another in the draft for the other side. Robertson will probably find a role in the nickel and dime. just don't see a lot of 3-4 OLB on this roster though. Maiava might be the closest .... and that scares the crap out of me.
Sheard is a tweener and will be taking a lot of snaps. He'll play OLB (yeah, he can do that) in the 3-4 and play a DE (yeah, he can do that too) in the 4-3. Why is it hard to imagine anyone in the NFL really telling you what they're going to do? When they say that they'll run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 defense, what's so hard to believe about it? We even have some other parts on the team that can play the position. Auston English can do it. So can Emmanuel Stephens. We have players that can be play either the 3-4 or 4-3.
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Is anyone on this roster Clay Matthews jr or Von Miller?
No. Of course not. Because if they were our 4-3 would of been that much better.
We needed LBer(s) regardless of what defense we ran. But let's say we don't get a Jarvis Jones or an Anthony Spencer.
You're assuming we're going to just trot out our current LBer core in a straight 3-4 set and send guys like Robertson and Miava at LTs all game.
I seriously doubt that.
Chud used the word "hybrid" and Horton had my favorite quote regarding scheme. It doesn't matter.
The truth is that you have to get a hat on a hat or someone is going to come free. Our DTs often draw double teams. Going to a 3-4, we could put 3 of them out there with our OLBs showing blitz with one or both falling into coverage or both of them blitzing.
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I know. And the new regime hasn't even made a decision on free agency or draft choices yet and people are screaming for the good ol' days for 4-12 or 5-11 every year! If it wasn't so sad, it'd be comical.
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The hiring of Chud and Turner I stand behind. Have no problem with either man. Horton could be a good hire but I am not behind changing defensive schemes.
Lombardi on personal level from what I have seen of him on NFL Network seems like a nice guy. Professionally, as a talent evaluator I see nothing in his resume to indicate he knows what he is doing. I know all about his personal relationships with Belichick and others in the league. However, to measure him on his own achievements? He is suspect at best.
I will throw out there that is hard to determine what personnel decisions were his alone from his work with the Browns and the Raiders.
In the context of his new position with the Browns it all depends in how they work together.
The one fact that stands alone here is that none of the new team of management is married to Brandon Weeden. That to me that is a good thing. It is extremely important that Weeden be evaluated solely on his own merits and not by the people that drafted him in the first round and gave him the starters job.
I think it unlikely that the Browns will go to camp with what they currently have at quarterback. Someone will be coming in to compete.
My guess Ryan Mallett. I think Mallett is more likely than Alex Smith. The other option of course is the draft. I doubt Geno Smith because I think he will be drafted before the Browns pick. Barkley does not fit the offensive scheme. The two players that I think will be on the radar are Tyler Wilson and Ryan Nassib. I doubt that the Browns would take either with the sixth pick. So a trade down is a real possibility if they decide to go that route.
Lombardi at this point is one of a group that according to Banner will be part of a "consensus of opinion". That to me spells trouble. Talent evaluation is an art. It is not something that people with other responsibilities can do. Head Coach has more than enough on his plate but should be consulted. OC & DC have their responsibilities but should voice an opinion. CEO Joe Banner should not be part of talent evaluation. He has no background to even suggest it. He should and I am sure will be a part to determine "need". As in "we need to look at the quarterback position". Banner should not be part of the "who we pick".
Lombardi if he is truly a talent evaluator and according to his title of VP of Player Personnel is suppose to be. Then he should be the guy who decides what free agents fit and what draft picks fit the playing personality of the Team.
My concern is that Banner will make personnel decisions. If that proves to be the case then the team is domed to fail.
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It's funny how alot of guys around the league have good things to say about Lombo. Maybe. Just maybe they see the guy has learned over the past 5-7 years? No. That can't be true either.
So, you (and others) are saying the hiring thought process went like this:
"Even though he has a crap draft record and had accomplished very little in 3 other stints in the NFL, other NFL people have said good things about him! .... and he might have learned something! Sounds good to me! No point in interviewing anyone else! Let's hire him!"
Now that is precisely the storyline we were given, and you wonder why people are ticked off?
Let's see, Belichick did nothing in Cleveland but was hired by New England and has won 3 Super Bowls since. By your football logic, Belichick couldn't have won any Super Bowls in New England.
Now, let's just take a step back and look at how successful the Browns have been over the past 5 years. It seems that it has to be repeated over and over and over again before it gets grasped by some folks.
2008: 4 wins, 12 losses (Crennel) *coincidentally Chudzinski was the OC on this team
2009: 5 wins, 11 losses (Mangini/Kokinis) * Mangini hired his own GM
2010: 5 wins, 11 losses (Holmgren/Heckert/Mangini)
2011: 4 wins, 12 losses (Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur)
2012: 5 wins, 11 losses (Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur)
If you're not okay with Lombardi being hired as the VP of Player Personnel (and he held the position of Director of Player Personnel under Belichick in Cleveland) but are okay with Chudzinski being hired, don't you have a bit of a contradiction in your thinking?
If Chudzinski was hired as the HC but could learn and grow to that position, why would Lombardi not be able to do so? It doesn't make sense to totally criticize the hire of one but not the other.
I do not accept the notion that one could be thought of as acceptable but the other thought of as unacceptable. It smells of inconsistency and hypocrisy. I dare say that it smells like politics.
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Just clicking ...
Let me see if I have the Cliff Notes version of what has transpired in the Cleveland FO.
These 4 guys will be making decisions on players based on "consensus". And if no consensus is reached, they'll move on.
1. Jimmy Haslam. Made his billions building, owning, operating truck stops. Although he was part minority owner of Steelers, obviously very green in the NFL. Never had any experience with player acquisition, FA or draft.
2. Joe Banner. By all accounts, very good business man and handler of money and budgets. I'm still waiting for the reports that indicate he has experience with player acquisition, FA or draft. From where I'm sitting, it's slim to none.
3. Michael Lomardi. By all accounts, it's unclear how much influence he's had in all in his previous NFL stops in picking players. But what we do know is his hand was in the pie and the track record is awful. He's been out of the NFL for 5 years although he's been reaching out and practically begging to get back in. Yet, no takers for this supposedly smartest man in the business (just ask Jim Nantz, who deserves zero respect from anyone after that little tirade ... what a clown).
4. Rob Chudzinkski. First time head coach. No player acquisition track record to speak of.
These are the 4 guys making the personnel decisions. What I've stated I believe to be mostly fact with my own little color added here or there. This isn't about getting into a pissing match over who gets another chance or who's right or who's wrong. This IS our FO. These are the guys making the big boy decisions this April and in FA. That scares the crap out of me.
And this whole thing about "consensus" is absolute lunacy. Sometimes the best route to go is the one where there is no consensus. That's why "final say" is so important to the expert guys. They know the intricacies of the player acquisition business that cannot be determined by a video highlight reel.
Oh well, these guys will live off of the job Heckert has done, they'll take the credit, and then in 3 years when they have to reap what they sow ... Haslam will fire Banner, give more lip service to the fans, go on TV and ask forgiveness for being so green ... yada, yada, yada.
After all, Haslam loves lip service. He pretty much said that's how Lombardi got here.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/why-di...ksEnabled=falseWhy did Browns hire Mike Lombardi? Go back to 1998 draft By Nate Ulrich Beacon Journal sports writer Bryan Broaddus has an intimate knowledge of what Browns CEO Joe Banner sees in Mike Lombardi, and it all goes back to their days with the Philadelphia Eagles. But Broaddus realizes the majority of Cleveland sports fans don’t share Banner’s view. Broaddus knows most of them are not pleased about his dear friend, former co-worker and the best man in his wedding, Lombardi, returning to the Browns as vice president of player personnel. “They hate him,” Broaddus said during a phone interview Friday evening, hours after Lombardi’s introductory news conference at Browns headquarters in Berea. Lombardi joined the Browns as a scout in 1987 before rising to director of pro personnel in 1989 and director of player personnel in 1993. In coach Bill Belichick’s five drafts from 1991-95, the Browns were never slated to pick lower than 10th overall but selected just one Pro Bowler. Lombardi and Belichick also chose to cut quarterback Bernie Kosar in 1993. Lombardi made a point to tell reporters Friday that Kosar called him to congratulate him on his new job. “I think Michael had to make a lot of his own mistakes,” said Broaddus, a former NFL personnel man who’s now an analyst for the Dallas Cowboys’ website. “I think there were things that he regrets that happened in Cleveland. There are things that he should have maybe handled a little bit differently. Maybe the decision he made wasn’t the right decision. “Maybe he should’ve done some things differently, and I think he would admit that. But he’s grateful for the second opportunity. I think Michael now has a real good understanding in his mind, ‘OK if I got another opportunity, the mistakes that I made here, I would do this differently.’ ” Still, with all the draft missteps the Browns took on Lombardi’s watch, the fact he hasn’t worked for an NFL team since the Oakland Raiders fired him in 2007 and the lack of other organizations pursuing him, many Browns fans believe this is a recipe for disaster. On Friday, Banner said, “I understand that I’m going out on the limb by myself” by hiring Lombardi, who spent the past five years working as an analyst for NFL Network. But Banner is willing to do so partly because he has a much different perspective than Lombardi’s critics. Leaving an impression Banner remembers the work Lombardi did as a member of the Eagles’ personnel department from 1997-98. In early 1997, Lombardi joined the Eagles as a pro personnel consultant, and Broaddus was hired as the organization’s college scouting administrator. Lombardi and Broaddus ran the 1998 draft together and picked three-time Pro Bowl offensive left tackle Tra Thomas 11th overall; four-time Pro Bowl middle linebacker Jeremiah Trotter in the third round (No. 72); one-time Pro Bowl return specialist Allen Rossum in the third round (No. 85); and one-time Pro Bowl special teamer Ike Reese in the fifth round (No. 142). They also picked defensive end Brandon Whiting, who became a regular starter for the Eagles for four seasons, in the fourth round (No. 112). And a month before the draft, Lombardi was credited for n
gotiating with New York Jets coach Bill Parcells and trading second- and fifth-round picks in exchange for three-time Pro Bowl defensive end Hugh Douglas. Banner called it “one of the best drafts you’ve seen anybody have” and said it laid the foundation for the Eagles’ four consecutive trips to the NFC Championship game from 2001-04. “A lot of what differentiated Mike [was] the idea of building teams versus picking players,” Banner said. “There are a lot of teams in the league that pick players and don’t really have a clear understanding of the difference between doing that and assembling a team where people complement each other. You’re creating the right culture, attitude, work ethic, picking players that fit your particular program as opposed to just picking good players that end up making personnel people look good necessarily and not necessarily making the team any better. “I’ve had the pleasure of working with Mike. I’ve stayed in touch with and had a relationship with Mike since we worked together. I know the effectiveness when we were together as well as the years of talking before and after drafts, what players we liked and didn’t like. I feel like I have firsthand knowledge on his ability to evaluate players, which is the most important thing he’s going to do.” So why did the Eagles fire Lombardi a month after the 1998 draft? Broaddus said Banner and owner Jeffrey Lurie wanted to build a culture similar to that of the Pittsburgh Steelers, so they hired Steelers personnel executive Tom Modrak as the Eagles’ director of football operations. Shortly after Modrak arrived in May 1998, Lombardi and Broaddus were shown the door. “I don’t blame Jeff Lurie or Joe Banner,” Broaddus said. “That’s their prerogative. It’s their football team. But I think the one thing that Joe Banner learned from the whole thing was Michael Lombardi was a pretty damn good personnel guy. “The guys we drafted in that ’98 draft, once they saw that these guys were two years into the thing, [they thought], ‘Wow, they actually did do a good job. They did hold this thing together. They did have a good eye for these players.’ ” Together again Perhaps Banner gained a greater appreciation for Lombardi after he saw the fruits of the 1998 draft develop. They have reunited 15 years later in hopes of achieving similar success. Banner said he, Lombardi, new coach Rob Chudzinski and owner Jimmy Haslam will collaborate in an effort to reach consensus on roster decisions and find the types of players the coaching staff wants. Neither Banner nor Lombardi would reveal who has final say on such matters, but Haslam announced Oct. 16 that football operations would report to Banner, so he’s expected to have the ultimate power. That’s a concern for some because Banner was primarily known for being a salary-cap manager and contract negotiator during his 19 years in the Eagles’ front office, not a talent evaluator. “I see them working together,” Broaddus said. “I don’t see this as a power grab or anything like that. I see Michael putting together plans, putting together draft boards and free-agency strategy. … Joe will fight you on players. He fought us on the draft. He fought in a good way. He didn’t fight in a bad way. He was very vocal about what we were looking at and what he saw. I think that’s what they’re trying to get to. They’re talking about consensus, and that’s surely what we did in that draft. There was discussion. There was debate. You kept it in the room, and you didn’t take it personally.” Lombardi said it’s the best approach and the 1998 draft is evidence. “I like working with smart people,” Lombardi said. “I like people that challenge you and make you answer questions. I think Joe is always good at doing that. I don’t take offense to being asked questions. I think that draft was about a lot of us working together in a collaborative effort to build the best thing we could.” Extra points Browns special-teams coordinator Chris Tabor received a two-year contract extension that locks him down through 2015, USA Today reported. … Haslam was asked Friday about his reaction to Chip Kelly deciding to leave the University of Oregon to coach the Eagles after flirting with the Browns during their coaching search a few weeks ago. “I didn’t really have [a reaction],” Haslam said. “I’m not worried about any other situation. We’ve got a lot of work to do here.”
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Quote:
Just clicking ...
Let me see if I have the Cliff Notes version of what has transpired in the Cleveland FO.
These 4 guys will be making decisions on players based on "consensus". And if no consensus is reached, they'll move on.
1. Jimmy Haslam. Made his billions building, owning, operating truck stops. Although he was part minority owner of Steelers, obviously very green in the NFL. Never had any experience with player acquisition, FA or draft.
2. Joe Banner. By all accounts, very good business man and handler of money and budgets. I'm still waiting for the reports that indicate he has experience with player acquisition, FA or draft. From where I'm sitting, it's slim to none.
3. Michael Lomardi. By all accounts, it's unclear how much influence he's had in all in his previous NFL stops in picking players. But what we do know is his hand was in the pie and the track record is awful. He's been out of the NFL for 5 years although he's been reaching out and practically begging to get back in. Yet, no takers for this supposedly smartest man in the business (just ask Jim Nantz, who deserves zero respect from anyone after that little tirade ... what a clown).
4. Rob Chudzinkski. First time head coach. No player acquisition track record to speak of.
These are the 4 guys making the personnel decisions. What I've stated I believe to be mostly fact with my own little color added here or there. This isn't about getting into a pissing match over who gets another chance or who's right or who's wrong. This IS our FO. These are the guys making the big boy decisions this April and in FA. That scares the crap out of me.
And this whole thing about "consensus" is absolute lunacy. Sometimes the best route to go is the one where there is no consensus. That's why "final say" is so important to the expert guys. They know the intricacies of the player acquisition business that cannot be determined by a video highlight reel.
Oh well, these guys will live off of the job Heckert has done, they'll take the credit, and then in 3 years when they have to reap what they sow ... Haslam will fire Banner, give more lip service to the fans, go on TV and ask forgiveness for being so green ... yada, yada, yada.
After all, Haslam loves lip service. He pretty much said that's how Lombardi got here.
All this from someone posting on a message board.
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I'm not following.
What's your point?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Let's see, Belichick did nothing in Cleveland but was hired by New England and has won 3 Super Bowls since.
I think 1 point about BB that has been missed. He said he was willing to learn more and went to be the Jets DC for a year and then was hired to be New Englands HC. The point being, he was willing to let himself be taught and did not start off with a know-all attitude. That came later 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Two rather convenient and important facts missing
2007 with Chud as OC we won 10 games, DA had a career year, Edwards and KW had career years.... Lewis didn't have a career year but an effective one.
2008, virtually the same players, but the results were different but mostly due to injuries (KW) and drops (BE) and a 300 less yards by Lewis. That's as much player performance as anything in 2008.
Then the firings started.
So, with a healthy crew, Chud did a pretty good job.
Edwards production dropped in about half, Winslow only played 10 games that year.
Jamal Lewis dropped in production but to be fair, still had over 1000 yards. in 2007 he had over 1300 yards.
DA suddenly showed his true colors and there you have it.
But if you wanna be fair, you gotta take the good with the bad. 2007 was good, 2008 wasn't so good but it doesn't land entirely on Chud.
Just thought I'd clear that up for ya..
I guess what I'm saying is, coaches can be consistent year to year, but if the players aren't, (which is what happened in 2008) the results wont' be the same.
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/20/13 11:32 AM.
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Two rather convenient and important facts missing
2007 with Chud as OC we won 10 games, DA had a career year, Edwards and KW had career years.... Lewis didn't have a career year but an effective one.
Another inconvenient fact about 2007, we faced a pathetic schedule that season.
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2008, virtually the same players, but the results were different but mostly due to injuries (KW) and drops (BE) and a 300 less yards by Lewis. That's as much player performance as anything in 2008.
Based upon that 10-6 record the previous season, we played better competition. Of course, you are what your record says you are. We were 10-6 that season. We also had a 9-7 season under Butch Davis and came within a whisker of dealing Putzburgh a loss in the playoffs. The following season, we were 5-11 by Davis succumbing to public pressure and replacing the franchise QB (Couch) with the popular backup QB.
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Then the firings started.
So, with a healthy crew, Chud did a pretty good job.
Edwards production dropped in about half, Winslow only played 10 games that year.
Jamal Lewis dropped in production but to be fair, still had over 1000 yards. in 2007 he had over 1300 yards.
DA suddenly showed his true colors and there you have it.
But if you wanna be fair, you gotta take the good with the bad. 2007 was good, 2008 wasn't so good but it doesn't land entirely on Chud.
Just thought I'd clear that up for ya.
You didn't have to clear up anything. I know what happened during those seasons. I remember them.
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I guess what I'm saying is, coaches can be consistent year to year, but if the players aren't, (which is what happened in 2008) the results wont' be the same.
And yet the reverse can be true, which unfortunately for us was true, of coaches. We suffered through two gruesome seasons with Pat Shurmur as the HC of the Browns.
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How many ILB can we play at one time?
I suspect that JMJ and DQ will be our ILB ..... maybe Sheard drops back to play OLB, and we find another in the draft for the other side. Robertson will probably find a role in the nickel and dime. just don't see a lot of 3-4 OLB on this roster though. Maiava might be the closest .... and that scares the crap out of me.
Sheard is a tweener and will be taking a lot of snaps. He'll play OLB (yeah, he can do that) in the 3-4 and play a DE (yeah, he can do that too) in the 4-3. Why is it hard to imagine anyone in the NFL really telling you what they're going to do? When they say that they'll run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 defense, what's so hard to believe about it? We even have some other parts on the team that can play the position. Auston English can do it. So can Emmanuel Stephens. We have players that can be play either the 3-4 or 4-3.
If we have Austin English and Emmanuel Stephens playing OLB in a 3-4 alignment ... well .... I can spell disaster .... can you? Bleh.
We "hope" that Sheard can play OLB .... but we really don't know. He has already said that he much prefers playing DE. He has also said that he'll do whatever the team needs him to do ..... but how much of his heart will be in a position change?
If we are going to play the 3-4, we need at least 2 solid to starter quality OLB, a couple of backups, and probably 2 ILB. Remember, DQ was far more impactful in the 4-3 than he ever was in the 3-4. Now we're going back to a defense that doesn't play to his strengths, and which forces him to try to shed blockers far better than he has in the past.
Now, we can probably pick up some decent LB in free agency. They probably won't be star quality, because 3-4 teams generally don't let star quality 3-4 LB walk. We'll probably sign a couple of guys like Scott Fujita to tide us over until we can fill those positions "for real".
English and Stephens ...... English played zero games this year, and went on IR. Stephens played 8 games, had 9 tackles, and 1 sack. This was his 3rd year. Yea. No offense, but if we count on them for anything except taking up space in training camp, and accpeting anything they give us as a bonus, then we're nuts.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Are there many converted DE's to OLB that are successful?
I'm wary of ever trying to convert a player. But I don't know how well it works league wide.
Thoughts?
DeMarcus Ware (Cowboys) comes to mind. So does Aldon Smith (49ers).
There are plenty of others, but these sack masters are just the first two that come to mind.
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I think, for this year anyway, to much is being put on 3-4 vs. 4-3. Horton(hears a hoo) has already said that it does not matter. I think he'll use what he has now, and wait until he gets the guys he thinks he can win with in a 3-4. I don't expect to much change in the 4-3. Maybe more hybrid, but he'll use what he has, and I think he'll get the most out of these guys. I'm not worried 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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And to those that said that 230-240 was too small, LT played the position between 230-240 pounds.
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My thoughts on DQ in the 34 vs 43. I agree that he did much better after the transition to the 43. Question is why?
I believe that he played so poorly in the 34 because of the 34 scheme that was used. Crennel and Mangini ran the same type of 34. It was not an attacking, force mistakes 34 like the Steelers. It was a sit back don't give up the big play, let the offense make the mistake 34. This type of 34 is much more dependent upon assignment integrity. DQ way too often left his assignment to attack the ball leaving a huge cutback hole right where he was supposed to be.
In the 43 the MLB has the assignment to attack the ball. This seemed to come much more natural to DQ. I presume that if we run an attacking 34 that he will be much freer to be aggressive to attack from the ILB position and less responsible for scheme integrity - but I don't know for sure.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
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I can agree with that. always more than one way to look at things..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And to those that said that 230-240 was too small, LT played the position between 230-240 pounds.
Irrelevant. Different time, different era.
LT played from 1981-1993. Offensive linemen from that era who have been inducted into the HOF include Jackie Slater 6'4 283# and Mike Munchak 6'3" 263#.
Would you be happy having a 263# LG and a 283# Tackle starting for us next season?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Plus the fact that you know he does not want to break up a very good front 4. He will use these guys. He has said that he was a coach of men not systems.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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