DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 2013 MLB season - less than a month until Pitchers/Catchers Report

that's what i'm worried about. if only one of those things happen, then we desperately need pitching.

hmmm, there's this Lohse fellow still out there. should we give him a ring?

(i mean there's no way we sign 3 premier FAs in one offseason, right?)

Bauer is the best bet for the Indians to have an elite pitcher.

If they are deciding they are all in then they should at least offer Lohse a one year deal.

sad thing is even with all the signings and suppose we get Lohse, I still wouldn't think we'd match up evenly with the Tigers.

i'd still take our chances given the randomness of baseball, but it's not like we would be the favorites.

The one thing the Indians have going for them is their division. The Twins, White Sox, and Royals all have the potential to be bad.

You are right about the Tigers. They should have no problem running away with that division. It's tough to compete for the wildcard when the teams you are going against are the Yankees, Rays, Angels, Rangers, Blue Jays, and A's. The AL West teams got a few extra easy wins this year with the addition of the Astros to the division.

Indian winter: In big surprise, Cleveland steals Bourn from Mets - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-he...bourn-from-mets

The Indians and Mets are both rebuilding. They are just doing it at different rates.

Cleveland's surprise signing of Michael Bourn for $48 million over four years -- plus a vesting option that could take it to $60 million over five -- was the punctuation mark on a wild winter engineered by young GM Chris Antonetti that also brought native son Nick Swisher back to Ohio for $56 million over four years. So that's more than $100 million for two outfielders when they already had a decent outfield.

The Indians got in the game. Good for them.

As for the Mets, well, they might want to push back their target date for contention back a year, or two. And as for the Mets' outfield, to quote their own GM Sandy Alderson from three months ago: “What outfield?''

There isn't much to see there, so the Mets will now presumably try to pick up one of Cleveland's scraps. Drew Stubbs is very likely the odd man out in Cleveland and eminently available. And guess what, he just might be the Mets' best outfielder if they get him.

The Indians are getting everyone, it seems, these days. This week alone, they've signed up Jason Giambi, Daisuke Matsuzaka and now Bourn, giving folks three more reasons to make the trek over to visit the hidden gem in Goodyear.

The Mets? They are still searching. (Though there isn't much left.)

While the Mets, who seemed like the public favorite for Bourn, debated whether to add a vesting option to their $48-million, four-year pass, they never officially did. And the reality is, the Mets' offer was conditional, anyway, meaning Bourn was left with little choice.

The Mets told Bourn their interest at $48-million over four years was only there if they could be guaranteed that they'd retain their first-round draft choice with a Bourn signing, something that wouldn't be known for a week, and more realistically, two weeks.

Bourn couldn't very well wait around to see whether he might have a lesser deal. He had two other teams in the mix, but he was happy to go to Cleveland, who unlike the Mets had an unconditional offer on the table.

The truth is, the Mets should have obtained a ruling on the draft choice a few weeks back, then bid on Bourn if they won the grievance to keep the pick. The reason they waited was their belief that the price would rise if it came out publicly that they could sign the player while saving the pick.

But realistically, that was their only chance to get him. No team can expect to make a conditional offer to a top free agent and expect to win said player.

The Mets might have won the grievance, but now we'll never know. MLB, citing the new CBA, argued that their pick wasn't a protected pick since it wasn't one of the top 10 picks. The union (and Mets) were prepared to argue that since they were the 10th worst team in 2012 and only bumped back to pick No. 11 because of the Pirates' failure to sign last year's No. 1 pick that by the spirit of the rule they should keep the pick.

To have any real shot at the player, the Mets needed to make their petition earlier, and get their answer, even if it meant public pressure to sign Bourn were to increase. The other choice they had was to sign the player now, then file the grievance and hope for the best in the hearing room later. But they weren't willing to take that chance.

Now, what they are stuck with is arguably the worst. The worst outfield in the bigs, at least if you go by resumes.

Without Bourn, the best center fielder in the game according to the number folks who keep track of range, the Mets have as their center field hopefuls Kirk Nieuwenhuis and Colin Cowgill, two unproven players with serious question marks.

Lucas Duda, Mike Baxter, Marlon Byrd and a bunch of other guys make up the rest of the Mets' outfield. What's strange is that Alderson, while telling jokes about the Mets outfield in public, privately has told some people inside baseball he believes the Mets can contend. And that's in 2013.

That's with that outfield, plus the sub-.200 hitting John Buck as the catcher at least to start the season, no closer they're happy with (Frank Francisco is the best of the lot right now) and a rotation diminished by the loss of R.A. Dickey.

The Mets took a hit to their credibility by failing to sign Bourn. Their system isn't so deep that they can win without future free agents, and it's easier to lure them if you convince them the foundation is already in place. David Wright's a very nice player, but one player does not make a foundation.

Give the Mets points for locking up Wright to a team-friendly $138-million contract, and also for trading Dickey for some terrific prospects. But pencil them as a possible contender for 2014. Maybe.

It's hard to imagine the Indians threatening the excellent and improved Tigers in the A.L. Central. And a wild card won't be easy in the American League. But they are certainly an interesting story, and team, now. They've given themselves a shot.

The Indians have some definite strengths, with a deep and talented bullpen, one of the best-hitting middle-infield combos in the game, improved firepower around the diamond and the best trio of center fielders in baseball (the Yankees aren't too bad, with Curtis Granderson, Brett Gardner and Ichiro Suzuki).

The Indians also got Bourn at a fair price. The $12 million AAV (average annual value) is the highest ever for a player who never hit more than 12 home runs or topped a .400 slugging percentage, and it's better than the other speed stars who got big deals, such as Juan Pierre, who once got $44 million over five years from the Dodgers, and Angel Pagan, who got $40 million over four from the Giants this winter.

Some might say Bourn's a better player than B.J. Upton (though obviously not the Braves, who gave Upton $75.2 million over five years). But the reality is, power pays.

Bourn also was hurt by the draft-pick situation, as teams desperately didn't want to give up their No. 1 pick and the slot money associated with it. Neither the union nor MLB could have predicted the effect the lost pick (and slot money) would have on teams as they pursued players who received qualifying offers, but it seemed to be immense.

The Indians, as a team with a protected pick, took advantage, signing up both Swisher and Bourn. The top 20 teams were less anxious to make plays for these fine players, including also Adam LaRoche, who went back to the Nationals on a two-year deal, and Kyle Lohse, who remains unsigned.

The new rule led to players who had mediocre years (such as Edwin Jackson) or worse (Shane Victorino) getting big deals because their old teams understandably didn't want to make them the qualifying offer. And also allowed players fortunate enough to be traded during the year (such as Anibal Sanchez) to hit the lottery.

The rule is too quirky to be fair, and surely needs to be changed for next year. It's too late to help the poor Mets though.

Bourn more evidence: Tribe will matter

Feb 12, 2013
Ken Rosenthal
FoxSports.com

My initial knee-jerk reaction: Terry Francona's new team, the Cleveland Indians, might be better than his old one, the Boston Red Sox.

That probably (likely?) is overstating it, but say this for the Indians:

They suddenly are relevant again.

Relevant because of Francona. Relevant because of Nick Swisher. And relevant because of their latest stunning addition, free-agent outfielder Michael Bourn.

The Indians reached agreement with Bourn on a four-year, $48 million contract on Monday night — a deal that seemed unimaginable for them at the start of the offseason, and for that matter even two days ago.

Did anyone foresee the Indians spending a combined $104 million on Swisher and Bourn, even after their owner, Paul Dolan, sold the team’s regional sports network, SportsTime Ohio, to Fox Sports?

Well, follow the money.

The Indians not only received $230 million from Fox, but also rights fees of at least $40 million annually over the next 10 years, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer. The increase, according to a source, will be about $9 million per year.

That’s nothing to rival, say, the Los Angeles Dodgers, but baseball’s new national TV rights deals will provide all 30 clubs with another windfall, netting each club approximately $26 million per season from 2014 to ’21.

The Indians back-loaded Swisher’s contract to reflect those deals, and used a similar structure to land Bourn, right down to a fifth-year vesting option, according to a source.

In both cases, they exploited their unique position in the market, landing accomplished free agents for less money than most in the industry expected those players to receive.

Yes, for once the system actually worked to their advantage.

The Indians, as a team with a top-10 selection in the next amateur draft, could not lose their first-round pick for signing free agents who received qualifying offers from their previous clubs.

Swisher, 32, was one such free agent. Bourn, 30, was another. Teams drafting from No. 11 to No. 30 were reluctant to sacrifice their first-round choices and corresponding slot money for those players. But the Indians only had to forfeit their second rounder, currently No. 45 overall, for Swisher, and their next pick — a new competitive-balance pick, currently No. 69 — for Bourn.

So much for the criticism of Dolan as an owner who won’t take advantage of an opportunity.

Earlier in the offseason, the Indians offered free-agent center fielder Shane Victorino a four-year, $44 million deal, a questionable decision at best. As it turned out, they got Bourn, a younger, superior player, for only $4 million more — and at a lower average salary ($12 million) than the Red Sox gave Victorino over three years ($13 million).

Bourn also came in much lower than B.J. Upton, whom the Braves signed as his replacement for $75.25 million over five years. Upton is two years younger than Bourn and hits for more power. Did the Braves overpay their new center fielder? Well, they had their old one pegged just right — they believed Bourn was worth $40 million to $48 million over four years.

Bourn’s problem in the market wasn’t just draft-pick compensation; Upton faced the same hindrance. The Braves and other clubs thought Bourn’s agent, Scott Boras, was unrealistic in his expectations. And Bourn, let’s face it, is not without flaws.

His value is dependent almost entirely on his speed. He strikes out too much, his on-base percentage is just OK for a leadoff hitter and he declined markedly after the All-Star break last season.

Well, the Indians will take him — take his base-stealing ability, his elite defense in center field, his average of 153 games played over the past four seasons. The Cleveland rotation probably won’t be good enough for the team to compete with the Detroit Tigers in the AL Central. But offensively, Francona’s new club sure is interesting.

If Drew Stubb hits, the Indians can go with an outfield of Bourn in center, Stubbs in right and Michael Brantley in left — second, perhaps, only to the Braves’ in defensive ability. Swisher would play first base and Mark Reynolds would be the DH in that scenario.

If Stubbs falters, Swisher can play right and Reynolds first; Jason Giambi, a non-roster invitee to spring training, represents an intriguing option at DH. The Indians also can try to acquire more pitching by trading Stubbs or — if they want a bigger return — Brantley.

As it stands, their rotation will be led by Justin Masterson, Ubaldo Jimenez and free-agent signee Brett Myers, with Carlos Carrasco the likely No. 4. Newcomers Trevor Bauer, Daisuke Matsuzaka and Scott Kazmir also are options, along with holdovers Zach McAllister and Corey Kluber.

It’s not an inspiring group, and actually could prove to be quite a mess if Masterson and Jimenez don’t improve upon their 2012 performances. But the improved outfield defense should enhance the pitching, and a better offense should help, too.

I’ll be watching. We’ll all be watching.

The Indians suddenly are a must-see team.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/micha...brantley-021113

Whether or not this all works out, isn't the point. The good thing is that they finally tried. They finally pushed some chips forward. This isn't going all in, but it's good enough to where I can give the Dolans, and Shapiro/Antonetti some credit.

Probably also Terry Francona, who probably would not have agreed to manage the team if they didn't agree to make some changes. If nothing else, these moves show how awful a job they were doing the last few years. You just can't throw some of the stiffs out there that they did, and not take the heat for it.

The Jose Canseco stuff on twitter is hilarious too.

Is it too obvious to make a Michael Bourn/Jason Bourne/David Webb joke here or would that be too "Chris Berman"?

Good signing. I'm excited. I think I'll dust off one of my Indians hats that I wasn't going to get out until April and start sporting it around town now.

Go Tribe!

you can make bets with Cubs fan of who is the real curse-buster: Francona or Epstein?

This last move may be the one that puts me over the top as far as buying the MLBtv package goes.

I opted not to last year, and it ended up being the right move, because the Indians were awful, unwatchable most of the year.

I'm not much of an MLB fan either, so it's primarily for the Indians. It becomes a great investment if the Tribe is still in the race at the end of the year and you can watch other teams that you're trying to beat out for playoff spots.

A close friend just re-tweeted that the last time the pope resigned the Cubs won the World Series.

We normally bet which team will have more wins at the end of the season (a "whole meal of food").

The Cubs are still a few years away. They're finally doing things the right way over there. For their case I hope they don't run Theo out of town before he can fully get that thing going. He's pulling a Tom Heckert and trying to flip the age of the roster.

Hard to copy and paste on this phone but the article from Paul Hoynes I just read said that Antonetti and Francona have talked to all parties and Brantley will play LF, Bourn will play C, Stubbs will play RF, Swisher will play 1B, and Reynolds will the everyday DH. Here's my line-up:

1. Michael Bourn CF
2. Jason Kipnis 2B
3. Asdrubal Cabrera SS
4. Nick Swisher 1B
5. Carlos Santana C
6. Mark Reynolds DH
7. Drew Stubbs RF
8. Michael Brantley LF
9. Lonnie Chisenhall 3B

I don't really get that. DHing Reynolds takes away some of his value and moving Swisher to 1B takes away some his value. I would just use Stubbs as a platoon guy against lefties and a defensive replacement.

Good lineup, but I might flip Chisenhall and Stubbs, if only to break up the string of 4 lefty hitters, 8-9-1-2. I also think Chisenhall is going to be a .280 hitter eventually, with some pop.

I'd change the bottom of the order to Brantley/Chisenhall/Stubbs, but when we are arguing the bottom third of the order, we are parsing details.

the why:

Brantley - one of our best hitters last year, still young and coming into his own. I don't think he's a weak link with his bat and he's 7th even on my lineup card.

Chisenhall - really hope he does well this year. we'll see.

Stubbs - I love the idea of a speed hitting guy in the 9-hole. When he gets a hit and turns over the lineup we now have Stubbs/Bourn/Kipnis all in a row. That is some serious speed on the basepaths.

Quote:

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man, I wish we got Marcum instead of Myers.

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i don't understand why we didn't get Marcum even after getting Myers? 4 mil for 1 year? Marcum has been a great, consistent pitcher, his arm must be in worse shape than we know.

The way I look at it is this ...... the more good players you can bat and/or play in the field, the better.

With Brantley/Bourne/Stubbs we'll have a very, very good defensive outfield .... probably one of the best in the American League. They all have speed, and can cover a ton of ground. out there.

Further, we can use Stubbs in conjunction with other players if we need to make a trade for pitching down the road.

The Yankees have been looking for a right handed outfielder all off-season. I would trade Drew Stubbs for Ivan Nova right now.

I would trade Drew Stubbs for anyone and you're about to see why.

Scotty Rolen not coming back to the Reds is music to my ears.

Frazier is ready to step up and take the reigns at 3rd, and here's his chance. Upgrade.

Drew Stubbs is on the Indians.

Yeah, and.......

March is almost here. On a list of AL impact rookies:

Quote:

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RHP Trevor Bauer, Indians. As with Myers, if you’ve been reading this space, you’re familiar with Bauer, who was chosen one spot ahead of Bundy out of UCLA in the 2011 draft. The now-22-year-old gained attention for his unorthodox throwing program and extreme long-toss regimen, but struggled in four big league starts with the Diamondbacks. Beyond his control problems (13 walks and two wild pitches in 16 2/3 innings), he battled with catcher Miguel Montero and other teammates, so general manager Kevin Towers made a statement by gifting him to the Indians in an unbalanced three-way trade.

Bauer’s exceptionally deep repertoire stars a 93-95 mph fastball that can touch 97, an outstanding curveball, an average-to-above-average slider with a two-plane break, a deceptive, late-breaking changeup and even a splitter and a cutter. Given that he has whiffed 11.5 per nine in his three minor league stops, he’s a welcome addition to the strikeout-poor Indians rotation, but in order to succeed, he’ll have to adjust to the major league level with less hard-headedness than he showed in Arizona.

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http://mlb.si.com/2013/02/20/wil-myers-d...6&eref=sihp

Hopefully, this kid will grow up and drop the punk attitude. Sounds like he has great stuff. All that remains to be seen is if he has the head for the big-leagues.

J/C

FYI for local baseball fans - the Indians spring training opener will be on WTAM tomorrow at 3PM, assuming its not still snowing in Arizona. Unfortunately, I don't think they can stream the game online. It'll be good to at least hear the sounds of summer, even if the weather is brutal here.

Tribe looks like they are getting lucky with the AZ weather so far. Only in the 60s. By the end of March it sometimes creeps into the triple-digits.

I'm decidedly not a baseball guy. I'll catch a tribe game in person if I'm around but will almost never watch a game on TV including the playoffs.

That said I actually did read a story when he was traded here...

And they said he shook the catcher off in his first game on the first pitch.

LMAO.

If I was the catcher I would have called time...walked to the mound and punched him in the face.

Montero is still bashing him in the press.

Apparently, there was more to that story too. That Bauer tried to talk to Montero about the game ahead of time, what pitches he likes (he has a strange variety of pitches), and such and Montero refused to even listen to him.

Pitchers and Catchers need to work together, so I don't think either is without blame there.

Francona posted his lineup for tomorrow. A little different, and likely meaningless, but here it is:
CF Bourn
SS Cabrera
2B Kipnis
1B Swisher
LF Brantley
C Santana
DH Reynolds
3B Chisenhall
RF Stubbs

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/...-outfield-plans

first, I think the premise of the story is hilarious. Cmon, the Yanks can still try out Granderson in LF (and they should) when he comes back from injury. Gardner is the better defensive CFer though he's a bit frail as well.

NYY really seems to be injury riddled though. I guess that is what you get when you put together a team of guys in their 30's. I don't think I'll be shedding many tears for them though

Yankees now have lost: Nick Swisher, Russell Martin, Raul Ibanez, Andruw Jones and Eric Chavez, A-Rod (at least 1st half), Granderson (out April). And are depending a ton on Jeter repeating his big year at the plate last year.

Yankees added: Kevin Youkilis, Travis Hafner, Juan Rivera and Matt Diaz

I'm not shedding any tears. But, it sure seems like TB is the favorite in the AL East now (NYY and Boston down, Toronto unknown and noone trusting Baltimore to repeat last year).

And either Detroit or Anaheim is the favorite in the AL now. And, I'm only putting Anaheim there because I didn't want to just list Detroit (who should be the heavy favorite overall). The AL Central may be the weakest overall division, but I think we have the heaviest heavyweight in the AL as well.

Indians home opener sells out in 6 minutes. If I didn't have to work I would have tried to get tickets. I think maybe the signings have added some excitement for the city of Cleveland.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2013/02/indians_home_opener_vs_yankees.html#incart_river
By Joey Morona, cleveland.com
on February 25, 2013 at 11:31 AM,
updated February 25, 2013 at 12:29 PM

Fans say 'Go Tribe' as Cleveland Indians opening day sells outA line formed outside Progressive Field this morning as Cleveland Indians single-game tickets went on sale. The home opener sold out in six minutes, one of the fastest sellouts in Tribe history.Watch video
The Indians' home opener against the Yankees sold out in six minutes after tickets went on sale this morning.

It was one of the fastest sellouts in Indians history, according to a team release.

Excitement around the 2013 team is at its highest level in several years, with the additions of outfielders Michael Bourn and Nick Swisher, manager Terry Francona and others.

Fans without opening day tickets can still attend the game by purchasing full-season ticket packages. Tickets for all other individual games are on sale now at Indians.com.

The Tribe plays the Yankees in the home opener at Progressive Field on Monday, April 8 at 4:05 p.m. The club opens the season on the road at Toronto on April 2.

This assures a 34 degree and snowy day!

Let's hope the Tribe can get off to a fast start and keep the momentum going..

I wonder how many tickets actually sold in the 6 minutes.

Between the opener being offered in the 10 game packs prior to today, along with the presale on Wednesday, I don't think they had that many to sale.

I was on Wednesday morning for the presale at 10am and best available was upper reserve and upper deck, few minutes after that it was upper deck only.