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I don't worry much about RAC....he isn't a good head coach.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Rac isn't going to have a lot of imput in the offensive scheme much like he'll all of a sudden start eating cottage cheese (with pineapple) instead of Krispy Kremes..
Any new OC brought in was going to be the captain of the offense with Rac being a LOOMING LARGE SHADOW of a man in the background.
He doesn't have a offensive background so he's really out of touch ..he needs someone to take control of the scheme and be efficient not foolish..
Thats the paradox of whether he actually hired Chud or was in the boat for bringing him in.
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Interesting stuff Peen. If what you say is true about Chud's O favoring DA, then I think RAC had very little to do with Chud's hiring as the OC. Why? Because I think RAC feels more comfortable with Charlie in there as QB. He was especially hard on Anderson last season after the second Steeler game in Pittsburgh. From what I remember of the post-game presser, it was the closest RAC has ever come to throwing one player under the bus since he's been with the Browns. I don't know if he was just frustrated or what, but I found it very atypical of him to be so hard on his QB after a game. Frye had made plenty of bone-headed mistakes in games and RAC never called him out in a presser like that. So based on that, I feel that RAC has more confidence in Charlie and is giving him a "leg up", as he put it. If this is the case, why hire an OC who is going to install an offense that favors the back-up? 
And we're guessing here that Chud's offense is going to favor Derek, correct?
Using the word "attacking" you have deduced that this offense, that has yet to materialize on the field, fits DA and not Charlie.
That's powerful, wish I could do that...
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Passing on 3rd and short for first downs - Charlie Frye was 1st in the AFC. 2nd in the NFL. (Garcia was 4-5, Frye was 9-12
LOL!!! Passing on 3rd and short for first downs? Yeah, because we had a moron for an OC at the time who had no faith in our running game!! No wonder Charlie was at the top of the league in this category!!
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Careful Pit,,, you know how some people can be when you tell them thier opinions may be incorrect....  Honestly, I'm not a big believer in using stats as the ONLY barometer of a persons worth.. There are intangables that are simply being ignored by those that want Charlie gone... But what the stats coupled with the intangables tell me is what I've thought all along.. and that is that Charlie deserves more time to sink or swim.. In my eyes, he's earned it. If you ask me if I'm 100% sold on Charlie,, the answer is no, I'm not.. But I'm still open minded about him.. he's too good a kid with too good of a work ethic to kick to the curb until the players around him are held accountable also... How about receivers doing thier job and CATCHING THE BALL.. might be nice right?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And we're guessing here that Chud's offense is going to favor Derek, correct?
Using the word "attacking" you have deduced that this offense, that has yet to materialize on the field, fits DA and not Charlie.
That's powerful, wish I could do that...
Peen suggested Chud's scheme would favor DA. I was basing my argument on that assumption, so yeah. I don't remember using the word "attacking", but I know that is the adjective used most often to describe Chud's scheme. Whether that fits DA or Frye is, as you eluded to, unproven. Again, I was merely going off of Peen's idea, not predicting the future.
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Daman, I am accepting what he says...that's where I got my opinion from...from his own words. Quote:
``In this business, a lot of things happen,'' Crennel said. ``Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason for why they happen."
Hmmm, so it was RAC's decision yet he sees no rhyme or reason for why it happenned? Yeah, right...those are his words.
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``That lets you know that some people see him with the same kind of potential that we thought he had,'' Crennel said.
O....k...? Wille reads as if RAC says: See, I'm not the only guy who thinks he is a legit OC. Last part clearly being my words...not his.
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``I can only work with the guys on the staff now.''
"the" staff...or "my" staff? Ok...possibly too much interpretation on my part. I don't think so, though.
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Said Crennel: ``I was in on every interview, and I made the recommendation to hire everybody we hired.''
Sounds exactly like me choosing the carpet and paint. A perfect example.
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``I think you'll see multiple personnel, multiple formations, and then try to take advantage of matchups,'' Crennel said.
I "think" or "You will"? Ok...maybe too much interpretation on my part again. But, I doubt it...again.
Not trying to pick a fight...just my opinion that those comments stick out like a sore thumb...to me.
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And we're guessing here that Chud's offense is going to favor Derek, correct?
Using the word "attacking" you have deduced that this offense, that has yet to materialize on the field, fits DA and not Charlie.
That's powerful, wish I could do that...
Well that would require looking at what SD ran. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of each quarterback, which requires removing the blindfold when discussing Frye lol
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Quote:
And we're guessing here that Chud's offense is going to favor Derek, correct?
Using the word "attacking" you have deduced that this offense, that has yet to materialize on the field, fits DA and not Charlie.
That's powerful, wish I could do that...
Well that would require looking at what SD ran. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of each quarterback, which requires removing the blindfold when discussing Frye lol
You're just begging for a reply aint ya...
Here ya go:
You think Anderson should start, like I stated earlier, your opinion is null and void... IMO of course. 
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I think you make a good point...I don't even know if RAC is going to have much say on who starts. If Chud wants Chuck....Chuck is the guy.....if he wants Anderson...Derick is the guy.
I think Chud is going to want a guy who can fire the ball into the seam and stretch the field.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Any new OC brought in was going to be the captain of the offense with Rac being a LOOMING LARGE SHADOW of a man in the background.
Isn't that kinda the way it should be... I mean, if RAC had to be the "captain" of the offense as you put it, then why bother bringing in any OC..
I agree with you... Chud will make the calls, RAC will continue to have VETO power, but I doubt he uses it much.. JMO however
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You're really reaching Willie,,,, and you're interpreting things your way, the way you see them,,, You are reading way to much into things I think.. But that's JMO,,,,, you don't have to agree with me.... But if you don't, then you owe me a beer
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's not a insult to know Rac's mind is for defense not offense..
That remark was for anyone who might get peeved ...
So thats why the new OC has to have that down..and NOT be a liability to Rac..
Rac needs to be able to focus on his D yet have enough management of the offense to assist or take charge when need be.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 03/28/07 01:21 PM.
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Ummmmmmmmmmmm....beer.  With Peen talking about "hitting the seam"...and Vers earlier informing me about the 30, 40, and even the 50 defense beers - 50 ounces of defensive beer!!! ...and now I owe you a beer.  Yippee! What an awesome offseason!!! Calm down Willie...get back to taxes.
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Quote:
Careful Pit,,, you know how some people can be when you tell them thier opinions may be incorrect....
Honestly, I'm not a big believer in using stats as the ONLY barometer of a persons worth.. There are intangables that are simply being ignored by those that want Charlie gone...
But what the stats coupled with the intangables tell me is what I've thought all along.. and that is that Charlie deserves more time to sink or swim.. In my eyes, he's earned it.
I'm right there with you Daman!
I don't believe stats tell you the whole story. They are IMO only a piece of the puzzle. If you add these stats to the "fact" that Charlie went 3 wins and 4 losses in his starts under Davidson as OC,I think the puzzle becomes clearer.
Firstly.Mo was a terrible OC! Once he was removed,things did get better under Davidson and it shows by Charlie going 3 wins and 4 losses as our starter. But people seem to omit,ignore.or simply don't know this. And his "holding the ball too long". Well,it seems Davidson and Charlie were working on that as well. In his last start vs K.City,Charlie went 11-13 for 122 yds and 1 TD. Zero interceptions. He stepped back and threw. Not holding the ball long at all.
I feel Davidson got the shaft here. I think Charlie was developing under Davidson rather quickly. He was "getting it". And still we had NO running game! So yes,I think Charlie deserves this season. Hopefully Chud will make a decsent OC and continue to develop Charlies talent at the same pace Davidson was doing. If so,a lot of people may be retracting some of their comments. Or denying they ever made them. One or the other.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I almost feel bad for RAC...he was an assistant for so many years on the defensive side of the ball, and now its almost as if hes out of touch with the other side of the game.
I think our defensive gameplans have been tailored to our talent (or lack thereof), but our offense was just offensive. I think if Romeo had it, he would have moved up the ranks alot faster.
I like the guy as a person and as a coordinator, but I think his window for being a head coach passed him by if it ever existed.
That being said....prove me wrong RAC...prove me wrong.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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If so,a lot of people may be retracting some of their comments. Or denying they ever made them. One or the other.
I'm putting my money on the latter.
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I find it hard to believe that a guy who can turn the ball over 33 times across 20 games is really our "franchise qb". Nice kid or not, 33 turnovers all caused by the same guy...that's an issue. Then again...DA turned the ball over 9 times across 5 games. Honestly...I don't like either of these guys. 
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So thats why the new OC has to have that down..and be a liability to Rac..
I don't understand that comment??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Not be a liability..I had to edit it..
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Oh....LOL....Ok..that makes sense....wasn't trying to point anything out. I read it a couple of times and for the life of me couldn't figure out what you were saying.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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find it hard to believe that a guy who can turn the ball over 33 times across 20 games is really our "franchise qb".
Knock seven of those of those off for receivers that don't know how to keep the ball in thier hands.... now we are down to 26 Turnovers.. Now take 5 more off because he probably wouldn't have fumbled so often if he hadn't been sacked so often (44 times last year in 12 games).. now we are at 21 turnovers..
Now consider that John Elway had 29 interceptions alone in his first 24 games. This doesn't take in to account any fumbles.. I can't tell if he did or did'nt because the stats aren't written that way.. at least not where I looked.
This is why I don't like to use STATS as the ONLY yardstick to measure a guys performance. It leaves too many holes in the thinking to be worth anything more than horse manure!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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This is why I don't like to use STATS as the ONLY yardstick to measure a guys performance. It leaves too many holes in the thinking to be worth anything more than horse manure!
Well, I do agree. I just needed to grab on to any piece of real information I could so I could display my disdain towards the idea of either one of them being our franchise qb
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How does the head coach not say who starts?
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Romeo decides who starts right after he asks Phil for permision to start him lol
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II think Chud is going to want a guy who can fire the ball into the seam and stretch the field.
If by "stretch the field" you mean over throw the WR and hit the safeties in the hands over and over again, then Derek IS the guy. It's what he did in college and it's what he's done thus far in the NFL. I was stuck watching this guy on local TV during his Beaver days. He is an interception machine. He's always been a big armed, over thrower. He threw 54 interceptions in three years of starting for the Beavers. FIFTY FOUR, that's not counting the three he threw as a frosh. He'll be a starting QB in the NFL the day they start allowing WR's to carry ladders onto the field or run on stilts.
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Why hasn't someone worked with him on his accuracy?
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I'm sure all his coaches have worked with him on his accuracy. It hasn't helped. In his Beaver starting days he had two games with 5 ints, three games with 4 ints, and three games with 3 ints. And many, many 2 int games.
Big arm, no control. A young Vinnie Interceptiverdi, only less talented.
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I think everyone is thinking way to hard. Just because it says an attacking type offense doesnt mean it favors DA or Chuck.
It usually means its going to attack the defenses weaknesses without mercy. If a team has an undersized line we're going to run it at them, if they have slower linebackers we'll use the tightend alot, if they have shorter corners or safeties that are poor in coverage or stiff in the hips we'll be attacking with the recievers more using double moves.
It has nothing to do with arm strength, especially since the biggest knock on Philip Rivers is his akward release and arm strength. Whoever can run this type of offense the best will be the qb and I dont think we have that qb yet.
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A completely new system.
``That's right; we're doing it all,'' coach Romeo Crennel said at the coaches' breakfast at the NFL's annual spring meeting.
That means that quarterbacks Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson will have to learn new terminology, new plays and new line calls. Chudzinski is still putting together the new playbook, Crennel said.
For Frye and Anderson, it's an offseason of adjustment -- something that's not unusual in the NFL but is challenging.
Will one of the boards deep thinkers be so kind as to explain why this is necessary? If I were the top dog in the organization, all the plays would be in the main play book. When a new OC or HC is hired we'd pull favored plays out and make a yearly (say 2007) play book. The terminology would remain the same. Isn't it easier to have one coach and a few new guys learn new terminology than everybody start over from square one? Would this not better for the development of project type players? Seems to me they are unnecessarily making things more difficult than it needs to be. Heck! I'll even donate a 3 ring binder to the cause. 
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Interesting stats Pit. I doubt they will change the minds of the Frye haters on here but they should. I can't understand how anybody could watch the Browns last year and blame Frye. If all it takes to win is a big arm Spergeon Wynn would be in the HOF.
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If all it takes to win is a big arm Spergeon Wynn would be in the HOF.
Truth has been written!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Attack I've got a ? This attacking style O were going to run is suppose to be simaliar to what Chud ran in Miami right. Wasn't Doresy the QB. And if this is the O were going to run where's the big arm needed? I think it's more on whats between the ears, and that leads towards Quinn. jmo
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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That's what I thought too Duty. If you actually break it down after Mo left? Under Davidson,Charlie progressed a lot. But some either refuse to see it,don't want to see it,or refuse to admit it. Not sure which one. BTW- Portland said "starting for the Beavers" hee hee
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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shhhh..... Beaver.... he he he There is a Beaver this year I wouldn't mind drafting in the 3rd or 4th round... Sabby Piscitelli. I've watched him the last couple of years come into his own. He needs to work on his tackling some but I think moving him to FS next to Jones would give us the speed and versitility needed from the safety position. He can run with WRs and TE's can't outrun him. His combination of size and speed isn't coachable. But he's intelligent enough to be coached. http://www.nflfans.com/x/2007/showplayer.php?key=Sabby%20Piscitelli6'3" 224 Forty: 4.47 Bench Reps: 19 Shuttle: 3.90 Cone: 6.84
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Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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I turn out to be right and the rest of you start changing your tune but refuse to admit you were a Frye boy when I was considered a jerk for not being on the Frye bandwagon.
....and there's me thinking that you were considered a jerk for your man crush on another QB.
#gmstrong
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LOL...U turn into quite the Statistician...
I'm so ripped in half on Frye it ain't even funny...
At one point he runs the offense solidly...Next point he's fumbling or throwin' up some lame ass duck...
BUT...Giving the so called confusion and animosity surrounding Carthon and this Offensive Line...I gotta look at what we fielded for this virtual ROOK at the most important position on this field...
2 Interior Linemen in Druzzi & Coleman that couldn't hold Pee Wee Hermans Jock let alone Steinbachs...A RT strugglin' with personal problems...A Center new to the team...And a LT that simply don't have the feet to play on the Island except in the MOVIE...What's all that do for a ROOK QB???
A VIRTUAL SET-UP FOR FAILURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No running game...No play action passing...No passing at all...
Then I look and say...What if???
What if we bring in a Steinbach/Dielman???...DONE...And I'm gonna tell u guys sumptin' right now if SHAFFER REMAINS AT LT...Eric Steinbach's game is going to REGRESS because he will no longer have the comfort of a LT next to him that NEEDS NO HELP ala Levi Jones...
I've done the research...I've looked at TOP LG's that have left that team and how it affected the LT...You replace a Hutchinson with some stiff and all of a sudden Walter Jones now has to HELP THE INTERIOR AND HIS GAME REGRESSES...It ain't coinsidence...
But guess what...There's NO DATA to look at when a TOP LT leaves to see what happens to the LG...WHY???...Because TOP LT'S never ever EVER hit the open market...That's no coinsidence either...
NOW.............TAKE JOE THOMAS AT THREE....NO TRADE...........
U guys that want the Fancy Pick in Peterson just do not understand Offensive Line importance...Particularly YOU Spectre & Hot Be Youngin' Turk)
ABSORB this for a few moments...
NO RUNNING GAME......NO TIME TO THROW........NO PLAY ACTION.............
Joe Thomas will be able to handle the Island ALONE...Eric Steinbach will be his normal self with Thomas to his left...LeCharles Bentley WILL be back...It might be 2008 but he will be back...If ever a player wanted to play for a team it's Bentley...He'll WILL HIMSELF BACK...
Do u guys even have a semblence of a CLUE what a left side of Thomas/Steinbach/Bentley would do for this team and Frye or Green or Carr???????....
The ONLY hole we might have is at RG and that can be fixed EASILY...I don't care if it's Sowells or McKinney or a draft pick at RG with Shaffer at RT...With the TOP NOTCH left side of this line...U can have the LUXURY of taking your Running Back and keeping him in for protection and NEVER HAVE HIM CONCENTRATE ON ANYTHING BUT THE RIGHT SIDE...
THAT IS TREMENDOUSLY HUGE and will FIX the Running game...The Passing Game AND the Play Action game...
Go Browns!!!
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I sit here and laugh at the fools on this site that laughed at me 2 years ago when we drafted Frye, when I said he would not succeed at this level. Now I turn out to be right and the rest of you start changing your tune but refuse to admit you were a Frye boy when I was considered a jerk for not being on the Frye bandwagon.
so let me get this right,, a few guys on here decided that Frye wasn'tt gonna be our QB of the future and your claiming victory?
Kinda jumping the gun there aren't you,,, won't you feel a bit like a jerk if he starts this year and does well behind an improved Oline?
I mean,, even some of those that think Charlie can't be the man are still, to some degree wondering if a line could have helped him,,,, But not you,, you claim a victory,,,,
Kinda hollow isn't that victory,,, Geez
#GMSTRONG
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Wasn't Doresy the QB. And if this is the O were going to run where's the big arm needed? I think it's more on whats between the ears, and that leads towards Quinn. jmo
That works in college ball..in the NFL , defensives are much more complex and FASTER..those quick hits require a stronger arm and if a play is to go deep , the QB needs to be able to hit the route..
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