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Norv adjusted to Smith's skill set and it worked pretty good for Smith. I just dont see Chud handicapping his system with Alex Smith when you have a Josh Gordon and Travis Benjamen that can take the lid off the defense.
Just because these guys will adjust to the QBs skillset doesn't mean they want to start with a QB with a number of limitations. It becomes even more modified when you are now talking about playing in the cold and windy AFC North.
There are several QBs in this draft class that will fit what Chud wants in a QB. Jones has the cannon arm and deep ball accuracy. I think in the right system he can be the next Brett Farve. Now this may be the only system in the league he can run.
Matt Barkley doesnt have the strong arm but he has the best accuracy of this QB class and to all areas of the field. His OL wasn't much this year and questions came up about how he handles pressure so that is something of concern.
EJ Manuel big arm, mobile kinda reminds me of McNabb in his early days. Doesn't appear to be great at making the quick reads.
Bray big arm, has never lived up to the hype. Should have been a star and has the potential but a true under performer. The dude can make all the throws but there is just always an excuse as to why he isn't Great. Hard to live up to Peyton expectations.
Wilson and Glennon they seem to be getting top 15 type Hype and I dont see any more value in them as to compared to the ones just mentioned.
Anyway this is a strong QB class but they are all in the 2nd tier in my opinion. I dont even consider Geno elite level but he sure is fun to watch. RG3 will put him in the top 2.
For Chud's system and Haslam's ego there is a QB in this draft that will jump off the charts to them. As I said earlier, Lombardi loved Barkley and his deep ball accuracy last year. BTW there are several more qbs that I didnt mention that will fit in with this pile of QBs.
It is just one big mess and for any of these kids that do not go to the combine, are you STUPID. This thing is wide open and showing your stuff in a dome is a great way to get noticed and not showing your stuff is a great way to be forgotten.
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Actually, Smith had a year that looked a lot like Weeden's year last year when he played for Turner in 2006. Smith completed 58% of his passes for 16 TD and 16 INT. He did, however, only throw for 2890 yards in 16 games, which tells me that Turner did not trust him to a great degree.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Actually, Smith had a year that looked a lot like Weeden's year last year when he played for Turner in 2006. Smith completed 58% of his passes for 16 TD and 16 INT. He did, however, only throw for 2890 yards in 16 games, which tells me that Turner did not trust him to a great degree.
Yeah, after I said that, I went back and rechecked.. But still, he got more out of Smith than did anyone prior
Mour brings up a good point, Turner adjusted his scheme to fit Smith which doesn't mean that's what he wants to run So, looks like Weeden will get a shot, but they will look for someone in the Draft. I don't think there is anyone in Free Agency worth the look.
In any case, I can't help feeling as if McCoy is gone.
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Damanshot
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I think that McCoy is gone just because Haslam said that they will bring in a QB to compete with Weeden. That seems to indicate that they see McCoy as 3rd string at best.
I do think that Anderson might be the guy they bring in. Chud knows him, and he proved in Carolina that he can handle the mentoring role if Weeden beats him out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Michael Lombardi has said in the past "One of the biggest mistakes new head coaches make is not drafting a new quarterback". I think that should give everyone an idea of what we intend to do on draft day lol.
The Alex Smith and Michael Vick stuff is just their agents trying to draw up interest for their clients.
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That may be, but you still have to get value when you draft.
I don't see any QB I would take at 6. Frankly I wouldn't take any of the QBs in this draft before the 2nd round .... and we don't have a 2nd round pick. That would mean either trading up from the 3rd, or down from the 1st.
I would not want to trade down from the 1st if we are able to grab a premiere pass rusher at 6.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That may be, but you still have to get value when you draft.
Well, problem is: Mike Lombardi has NO CLUE about value...he has shown that again and again as a FO member and media guy. He's always been that gullible sucker to fall for the next Mike Mamula. He LOVED the value of picking Pat White in round 2 for the Dolphins...he was all over it. White went 0 for 5 in his career...and that's just one of many misses....
You wanna know who Mikey boy is going to rank high? Go watch the Combine 3 weeks from now. Dude is a hype sucker...always been. Buying high, outsmarting himself on good players who don't have that shiny ceiling. I'm preparing for a nightmare of a draft weekend picking bad value after bad value...
I have lowered my expectation level so much that I would probably be happy if he somehow avoids picking players from my "please not" list...Mangini managed to draft 2 of them in 1 draft with Robo and Massa, which was double-dumb as they were similar types of WR too. It can't get any worse than this, although Lombardi has me scared and we're the Browns after all: if it happens to any fanbase twice, it'll be us....Heckert in 3 drafts only once btw with C.Mitchell, and that MUCH lower than he was projected. It won't take multiple drafts to find out if this "consensus" group has any clue about value or not. Heckert was the first GM we had here who I can say with 100% that he "got it"....looking at everything Mike Lombardi has done and said I'm close to 100% that he doesn't "get it", so don't get your hopes up too high...that's as positive as I can be right now
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I have to take them at their word that Weeden is going to have to earn the job, not just have it handed to him.
Actually, Anarchy, you don't have to take them at their word. They made it crystal-clear how they felt by what they didn't say.
When new regimes come in, they immediately make one of two statements regarding the current starting QB:
1) "We know what *insert player name* can do and are comfortable going forward with him at the helm.
2) "We haven't yet evaluated *insert player name* and therefore won't be commenting at this time.
Haslam wouldn't support Weeden.
Banner wouldn't support Weeden.
Chud wouldn't support Weeden.
Lombardi wouldn't support Weeden.
We all knew the score before word-one was spoken because of what they didn't say.
I've also got news for everyone. This person who will be competing against Weeden will NOT be McCoy. That's a last-ditch pipe-dream for the Pro-McCoy crowd.
We're going to bring in someone from the outside, and it won't be some backup like Stanton or Anderson. We're either going to draft a QB high, or we're going to go after Smith.
The cold hard facts are that Weeden was the oldest rookie QB in the history of the NFL, and in spite of the lovie-dovie words from that slacker Holmgren, Weeden was a developmental QB, just as many warned he was. Because of his unprecedented only-verified-by-carbon-dating age, he either had to come out in his very-first year as the starter looking good, or he was going to face instant competition. McCoy got limited time because of his limited tools, and Weeds gets limited time because his physical age limits his upside. Like McCoy in his second year, the light either had to come on or he is toast. Now can the light come on? Yeah, he has the tools. He did flash at certain times. However, to hear a soon-to-be 30 year old talk about trying to fix mechanics...are you freakin' kidding me?! To start whining about the coaching staff "not being fair to us" like a 21-year old rookie was a HUGE warning sign to the fan-base and the organization.
Weeden may very-well get the starting job, but like McCoy, if he isn't developing rapidly during this season, he's going to be permanently benched and this "competition" will become the starter.
That's assuming the "competition" isn't Alex Smith, which looks like a very real possibility.
People need to stop with these predetermined notions about what they think Smith is. His 2011 season was that of an elite "game manager." His 2012 season was something very special.
The facts are that no game manager has ever completed 70% of his passes while ranking in the top-5 in yards per attempt. That singular FACT blows away the notion that he's just a dink-dunker who padded his completions by keeping it safe. Furthermore, his performances in the playoffs indicated he wasn't just beating up on bad teams. When the pressure was on, Alex Smith rose to the occasion.
Can we say any of that about the OLDER Brandon Weeden?
I'd love for a home-drafted QB to actually pan out for once, but we're right on the precipice of the idiotic gamble on Brandon Weeden becoming a huge dud. Give me a very-good QB and forget about the position for the next half-decade and build the rest of the team. We've had 14-years of "give our current QB one more chance then if he doesn't work we can just get one next year."
That's worked out really well for us, hasn't it.
I say get Smith, up his contract, and let he and Weeds fight it out. If Weeds beats him out, then we sell Smith to a team that needs a QB. So what if we lose the value of a 3rd round pick and some cash. That is a ridiculously small price to pay to ensure we have a legitimate starting QB. If Smith blows Weeds out of the water, then we've solved the starting gig anyway.
There are so many ways to have this become a winning situation for the Browns with Alex Smith. This stuff of "we can just go get a QB next year if Weeds doesn't work" is the stuff pipe-dreams are made of.
A bird in the hand people...a bird in the hand...The two in the bush have yielded us ZILCH for the past 14 years.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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People need to stop with these predetermined notions about what they think Smith is. His 2011 season was that of an elite "game manager." His 2012 season was something very special.
The facts are that no game manager has ever completed 70% of his passes while ranking in the top-5 in yards per attempt. That singular FACT blows away the notion that he's just a dink-dunker who padded his completions by keeping it safe. Furthermore, his performances in the playoffs indicated he wasn't just beating up on bad teams. When the pressure was on, Alex Smith rose to the occasion.
I debunked that myth 2 days ago and, surprise, got no response from the Frog...here goes again:
As for 70% comp QB. His career numbers (larger sample size) are 59% and that's pretty fair considering his "good seasons" before last year's were 60.5%, 59.6% and 61.3%.
So acting as if it's the "norm" to expect Smith to produce even close to 70% is laughable at best as 9 starts with 70% and 60+ on the other with around 58-61% clearly show what is the norm and what is the exception
Even taking a closer look at Smith's 2012 stats clearly show him for what he is: a game manager: in a D dominated game vs ARI (24-3 win) when they only had to run the ball and he was managing he was an almost perfect 18 for 19. When you look at his (only) 3 starts he had to throw 30 times or more, you'll see why he still isn't a QB that wins games for your team: 49ers were 1-2 in those games and Smith had a yds/PA of 6.56, that against DET, MIN and NYG...so not exactly "killer" Ds vs the pass.
I wouldn't even take him for a 7th just because of his salary. He's simply not worth it and I can guarantee that he won't be a Top 10 QB at the end of 2013, wherever he's going to start. Dude will make 7.5mil the next 2 seasons. It took the last regime 3 years to get to the cap heaven we're in now and an envy-less locker room due to a strict play-reward oriented management. I think it is no coincidence that this roster kept playing hard till the last play of the season. Yeah, let's throw all of that out the window too while we're at it
Here's another "game manager" fun fact:
Did you know that Alex Smith threw over 300yds just ONCE in 25 starts under Harbaugh? 303yds last season in a 45-3 win vs the Bills. He didn't even reach 240yds in any other of his 8 2012 starts and ecclipsed that mark just 3 times in 16 2011 starts. So in his past 2 "career" seasons Alex Smith threw LESS than 240yds in 21 of his 25 starts. 12 of those 21 starts he didn't throw over 200yds.
He is what he is: a game manager
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I say get Smith, up his contract, and let he and Weeds fight it out.
I'll leave it at that...
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So now you want us to not only give up a draft pick for Smith, you also want us to extend his contract, which will push him into top-10 QB money, and, when he fails, trade him away, which will accelerate all that money from the extension you just gave him, for a pick that will be much lower than the one you gave up to get him (because teams are always beating down other teams' doors to give them good draft picks for failed QBs). Makes sense, I guess.
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Trading for Alex smith would be one of the dumbest moves this team could make. Wasting a draft pick for someone who doesnt fit the Air Coryell offense would be a new stupid for even Lombardi.
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Trading for Alex smith would be one of the dumbest moves this team could make. Wasting a draft pick for someone who doesnt fit the Air Coryell offense would be a new stupid for even Lombardi.
Does giving up a later pick(s) to get Smith - meaning 4th or 5th - change your mind?
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2nd String
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Trading for Alex smith would be one of the dumbest moves this team could make. Wasting a draft pick for someone who doesnt fit the Air Coryell offense would be a new stupid for even Lombardi.
I would give up 2014 2nd rounder or a 3rd and a 4th/5th for him in a heart beat.
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Quote:
Quote:
Trading for Alex smith would be one of the dumbest moves this team could make. Wasting a draft pick for someone who doesnt fit the Air Coryell offense would be a new stupid for even Lombardi.
I would give up 2014 2nd rounder or a 3rd and a 4th/5th for him in a heart beat.
A 2nd round pick? For Smith?
No offense, but I pray that your real name isn't Michael Lombardi. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Trading for Alex smith would be one of the dumbest moves this team could make. Wasting a draft pick for someone who doesnt fit the Air Coryell offense would be a new stupid for even Lombardi.
I would give up 2014 2nd rounder or a 3rd and a 4th/5th for him in a heart beat.
so glad ur not running the show.
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I debunked that myth 2 days ago and, surprise, got no response from the Frog...here goes again:
As for 70% comp QB. His career numbers (larger sample size) are 59%
That didn't debunk squat.
You wanna try and SPIN this into his career numbers. Teams interested in Smith aren't interested in the "career averages" of Smith. They are interested in what he's become.
The only thing debunked is your poor attempt at spin.
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So acting as if it's the "norm" to expect Smith to produce even close to 70%
Show me one person...JUST ONE...who says they expect Smith to produce that every year.
If you can, we can continue with that thought. Problem is you can't. Search away.
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Even taking a closer look at Smith's 2012 stats clearly show him for what he is: a game manager:
Then you continue by prattling on with the same tired old running joke of what you do: Cherry-picking stats to fit your argument.
Wanna take a closer look at his stats? Look at his yards per attempt and his completion percentage. Show us all one game manager in history that accomplished that.
You can't. That's because last year he became anything BUT a game manager.
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I wouldn't even take him for a 7th just because of his salary.
Which exemplifies that you've gone WAAAAAY past reason because every single team that needed a QB would give a 7th for him and his salary.
We can stop right there. We know what you're really up to...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I"m not sure if I'd like what you say or care more if you weren't so condescending, but I'd sure like to find out. Do you think you dial back the condescending oral diarrhea.
I'm reasonable confident you'd get taken a great deal more seriously. now your more like a kid that had too much to drink and thinks he knows it all.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Honestly, I see very little difference in Smith and McCoy. Its the same QB one just has a couple years of experience over the other and I wouldnt use a 7th for both in this scheme. The strength of this scheme is mid to deep passes. Weakness for smith is mid to deep passes.
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Mour, I get that you like Weeden, but obviously the FO doesn't 100% agree with you. So who do you bring in for a real competition if not Smith? I mean Manual or Jones aren't real competition as they are bigger projects than Brandon is at this point. So if your the FO and don't want Weeden as your long term guy who do you bring in to realistically compete? Barkley? I like him better than most and think he's the best prospect in the class, but I don't think he's a top 10 pick either. Mallet? God I hope not.
I just don't see any better options out there, and we are probably going to either bring in Smith or trade back a little bit and take Barkley. What's your take? Again it doesn't matter what we want, but rather what the FO apparently wants to do.
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That didn't debunk squat.
You wanna try and SPIN this into his career numbers. Teams interested in Smith aren't interested in the "career averages" of Smith. They are interested in what he's become.
The only thing debunked is your poor attempt at spin.
Ask any scientist if it's "spin" when talking recent small sample size and past large sample size...and then ask them which they take and believe in and which they call deviation...go ahead
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Show me one person...JUST ONE...who says they expect Smith to produce that every year.
Yeah, you never said it...you just suggested it..we get it..same old, same old game.
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Then you continue by prattling on with the same tired old running joke of what you do: Cherry-picking stats to fit your argument.
Wanna take a closer look at his stats? Look at his yards per attempt and his completion percentage. Show us all one game manager in history that accomplished that.
You can't. That's because last year he became anything BUT a game manager.
Oh right, he was a BENCHED game manager 
A simple fact I almost forgot during all your cheering of the 2nd coming of Christ. When was the last time anyone offered an already overpaid, then benched QB a raise? Not even Lombardi would be that stupid
...and btw: unlike you I TOOK a closer look at his stats
Now have fun cheering your boy on the bench
#gmstrong
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I am a believer in drafting a QB every year until you get your franchise guy. Now the free agent crop is pure crap and trading for a guy like smith is pointless.
I like Weeden but I dont like him enough not to go fishing for another QB. I had both Laundry JOnes and Barkley rated much higher than Weeden last year. If I can move up into the 2nd and get one I go for it. Manuel is the intriguing guy. I think you draft him for 2 or 3 years down the road potential.
I am not the least bit convinced that Weeden can beat those guys out. I would hope he can. I believe the guy will be much better in this system but I am not so convinced that I pass on not drafting a QB. The only question is which one cause there are a ton to pick from.
Guys like Smith just have the potential to get another coach fired because they arent good enough to put a team on their back and make the big plays.
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JC
I sure hope we keep Weeden this year and see if we can find a Colin Kaepernick later in the draft.. I know he's having a bad day right now, but still, he's the kinda kid you can build a long term future on. Maybe we can give up something next season to move up into the 2nd and find the next one like him.. I really like how that kid plays. 2 years in, first year sat mostly, then came on in the second year.. just what we need...
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/03/13 09:03 PM.
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I understand your point, but I'm not a fan of drafting mediocre QB prospects that I have to waste a high middle round pick on. I'm for drafting one in rounds 4-6 every year, but just not comfortable taking them over guys who can start day one potentially in rounds 2-3.
That said, I'm not high on either Manuel or Jones enough to waste a 2nd-3rd rounder on them. In years past these guys would have been mid round selections, but with the league QB crazy right now their value is inflated. I wouldn't be against Geno nor Barkley, but I would want to trade down. Problem is both are going to go early IMO. I hope Glennon lights up the combine and drops Barkley to bottom of the first.
In regards to Smith, I'm not against signing him for the simple fact it buys us some time to find a long term solution. I simply don't have faith in Weeden to be that 5 yr stop gap while we search.
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Ask any scientist if it's "spin" when talking recent small sample size and past large sample size...
Yup, that's what I thought: More spin.
Fact: You tried to use Smith's career numbers to define his value.
Fact: Teams who are going after Smith aren't looking at his career numbers. They are looking at his development.
BUT, let's play by your rules for a moment. What are Weeden's career numbers again, and where does that rank him?
Ooohhh....but you'll tell everyone that is different because of some obscure belief of yours in his "ceiling." Meanwhile, Smith has been curving drastically upwards the last two seasons, yet you'll call that something like a "deviation." 
Most call that "development."
Spin, spin, spin. Quote:
Show me one person...JUST ONE...who says they expect Smith to produce that every year. (70% completion rate)
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Yeah, you never said it...you just suggested it..we get it..same old, same old game.
Have some crow, old crow
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'Toad: "However, let's say we got a player who wasn't quite as great as Smith was in 2012. I wouldn't expect him to be that great again."
From my own hand
I know you love to twist, spin, manipulate, and otherwise mis-quote, mis-interpret, and mis-state stats, facts, and peoples statements. It sucks to get caught doing it, though. 
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When was the last time anyone offered an already overpaid, then benched QB a raise?
More hyperbole. It's your calling card.
If Weeden was making $8 million a year and gave us a 104 rating on a winning team, he'd be hailed as the 1st round QB that finally made it. In fact, that would be the case on any team.
It would also be worth noting the entire situation of why Harbaugh went with Kaepernick. I'd have done the exact same thing. But "benching" Smith in favor of Kaepernick doesn't make Smith a mediocre QB. That is YOUR insinuation.
Let's see who offers what for Smith then gives him a raise. My bet is more than one team will be willing. Why? Because they view him as the guy you portrait for his career numbers? Nope. Because of the guy Smith has become.
It's amazingly hypocritical, actually. Smith turns the corner and has a good year, then follows it up with a great one, yet you want to forget all that and use his career totals to devalue him, yet you'll turn around and shrug off Weeden's numbers and pimp him because of nothing more than tools.
Way to go down with the ship.
Hey, for what it's worth, I would be back-pedaling as fast as your are as well. I wouldn't want anything to do with the last two seasons Smith produced. I'd try scaring people based on his career averages as well.  Afterall, who wants to focus on how much class Smith has showed with his situation, coaching up Kaepernick in spite of losing his playing time. Meanwhile there's the older Brandon Weeden, calling out his coaches and crying "It's not fair to me!" to the media.
Nope, I wouldn't touch any of that. I'd fall back to his career numbers and his injured shoulder and concussion. Of course others would then bring up Weeden's injured shoulder which forced him from baseball and speak of his own concussion. 
You and the rest who don't care for Smith better hope that some team like the Chiefs or Cards offer a huge package for Smith, because our situation looks FAR FAR better to an incoming QB. Smith may block a trade to one of those teams by not accepting their terms of a contract extension, while helping the Browns get him because he'll like having a good pass-blocking line, two emerging receivers, and a guy name Richardson in the backfield all being coached by his old bud Norv Turner.
I'd urge fans to get past the hangups of fearing what it would mean to lose Weeden and have him replaced with Smith. There's alot to like about the guy. God knows he's played better the last two seasons than any single season by a QB here in the last 14, but let's not allow that to get in the way of Weeden's "ceiling."
I know some fans fear losing the "value" of the 22nd pick of the 2012 draft if Weeden isn't kept.
I know some fans will rue the cost of sending a draft picking and paying Smith if he's brought here.
I know some fans want to paint Smith as a one-hit wonder, even though he's coming off 2 good seasons.
It's a tough spot, no doubt about it. However, it's hard to paint Smith as a one-hit wonder, and it's impossible to paint him as anything but a great teammate and a pro's pro.
Alex Smith is going to solidify some teams QB position for the next several seasons. How many years has it been since we were able to say that about the Browns...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Honestly, I see very little difference in Smith and McCoy. Its the same QB one just has a couple years of experience over the other and I wouldnt use a 7th for both in this scheme. The strength of this scheme is mid to deep passes. Weakness for smith is mid to deep passes.
Smith has a stronger arm, more accuracy, more experience, can read a defense and remains calm under pressure whereas McCoy panics. Other than that they are exactly the same guy.
The difference between Jesus and religion
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Here is a twist to take this thread in a little different direction.
Flacco is a FA at the end of the year. Say he get the franchise tag. Do you offer him say $20 million/year (making him the highest paid Qb in the NFL is what it will take to sign him away from the Ravens) for say 5 years and be willing to give up 2 1st round draft picks (franchise tag compensation)?
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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Not I said the fl...er...Toad.
Flacco pulled an Eli Manning and rose to the occasion. He's good, but I'm not sure he's worth being the top paid QB in the league. Of course the highest paid QB isn't always the best one. Now throw in a couple of 1st round picks? Nope.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I like Flacco as a QB quite a bit. The only thing about him is that there is some projection that has to go into making him one of the highest paid players in the NFL. He's always been a big piece of the offense for the Ravens, but he's never thrown more than 25 TDs in a season. I do think that a large part of that is the offense the Ravens run though.
In the playoffs, Flacco went 73/126 for 1140 yards and threw 11 TD passes and No INT. That's pretty damned impressive.
If we could pry him out of Baltimore for a pair of 1st round picks, I'd sure try to do it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Alex Smith is going to solidify some teams QB position for the next several seasons. How many years has it been since we were able to say that about the Browns...
Sorry dude but Alex Smith isn't going to solidify anyones QB position.
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Alex Smith is going to solidify some teams QB position for the next several seasons. How many years has it been since we were able to say that about the Browns...
Sorry dude but Alex Smith isn't going to solidify anyones QB position.
I agree.
The Niners were his perfect situation, and he lost his job there. What other team is going to provide a top 5 running game, a top 5 defense, and an offense that puts very little pressure on him?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Alex Smith is going to solidify some teams QB position for the next several seasons. How many years has it been since we were able to say that about the Browns...
Sorry dude but Alex Smith isn't going to solidify anyones QB position.
Alex Smith will make another Toad prediction look like crap. Frog should keep his mouth where it is best...on the fence
I mean he's trying to talk up a dude's "career years" where he threw under 240yds in 21 of those 25 games and under 200yds in half of them 
If that's "development" I want no part of it..only if they ship that top 3 D and Frank Gore with him, than I'll gladly watch Smith dink'n'dunk his way to glory and throw an occasional 20yds pass off of play action.
Whoever is buying Smith is buying high, he's this offseason's Matt Flynn...oh look, the same Matt Flynn who had a 124 QB rating and 10.6yds PA.... HE IS GOLD, HE HAS DEVELOPED
#gmstrong
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Ooohhh....but you'll tell everyone that is different because of some obscure belief of yours in his "ceiling." Meanwhile, Smith has been curving drastically upwards the last two seasons, yet you'll call that something like a "deviation."
Most call that "development."
I already exclusively LOOKED at his "develpopment years" and 21 of 25 games under 240yds do NOT excite me sorry. I also showed that when he had to throw, he was same old Alex Smith. He had his best games where he had to throw less than 20 passes. You think he will have that luxury ANYWHERE else? Which team do you know thayt has a top 5 RB, Top 3 D and an open QB position...good luck
As for scientific terms: the same scientists will tell you that a 14 game sample size is different than a 70+, buth thanks for trying
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Spin, spin, spin. Show me one person...JUST ONE...who says they expect Smith to produce that every year. (70% completion rate
Ok here's what you wrote friday in this thread:
"Any QB who completes 70% of his passes in a season is a guy that gets it done based on talent and ability, not just on supporting cast. When it's all said and done, a QB still has to make the reads and make the throws."
I'll let the whoever reads that decide what you "suggested" but never really said You're really turning into thisboard's version of Eric Cartman. Please play that stupid semantics game with posters dumb enough to be fooled by it
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'Have some crow, old crow
Toad: "However, let's say we got a player who wasn't quite as great as Smith was in 2012. I wouldn't expect him to be that great again."
Oh cool, another backdoor post. So tell us exactly what "not so great" means in numbers, as you can›apologize everything else you said with that sentence, because if you don't provide that it's just more typical Fence-Frog....let's hear as I want a quotable laugh 12 months from now
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I know you love to twist, spin, manipulate, and otherwise mis-quote, mis-interpret, and mis-state stats, facts, and peoples statements. It sucks to get caught doing it, though.
Caught? lol If I did where's the proof? I mean if I "mis-stated" stats you'd be the first to shove em back to me....I can read your gnashing of teeth in your words Quote:
When was the last time anyone offered an already overpaid, then benched QB a raise?
More hyperbole. It's your calling card.
Here's what you wrote...umm, 15 hours ago in this thread, lol
I say get Smith, up his contract, and let he and Weeds fight it out.
I gues you never "meant" what you wrote...right?
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It would also be worth noting the entire situation of why Harbaugh went with Kaepernick. I'd have done the exact same thing. But "benching" Smith in favor of Kaepernick doesn't make Smith a mediocre QB. That is YOUR insinuation.
No, it's my opinion....we will see who was closer to being right 12 or 24 months from now, but if I were you I would start praying. Benching Smith on a .750 record team is even worse than on a .500 team. If he was anything more than "average" he would not have been benched on a winning team
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Let's see who offers what for Smith then gives him a raise. My bet is more than one team will be willing. Why? Because they view him as the guy you portrait for his career numbers? Nope. Because of the guy Smith has become.
Hold on. Are you trying to spin this now into a "I didn't say it, am just predicting it?" Sure, in a league that gave Mark freaking Sanchez close to 10mil/season, he sure could get a raise from some dumb team. But what you said and suggested was the THE BROWNS should trade for him and then "up his contract"...that's what you WANT J&J to do...do not even try to spin your way into a prediction of what's going to happen but you don't agree with it, you were pretty clear that you want to trade as much as a 2nd for him (even suggesting the 6th overall, but quickly backtracking from it) AND to extend and UP his contract...I could care less what if some team DOES it or NOT, so let'smake it clear before it happen: I think it's stupid and wouldn't even waste a pick on Smith let alone up his already bloated contract and you clearly WANT that to happen
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It's amazingly hypocritical, actually. Smith turns the corner and has a good year, then follows it up with a great one, yet you want to forget all that and use his career totals to devalue him, yet you'll turn around and shrug off Weeden's numbers and pimp him because of nothing more than tools.
I haven't even used career totals...the season before that was enough and that season was pretty close to that 2012 season don't you think? He never "turned the corner", he was a game manger in those 25 starts, that was put into a perfect situation to NOT MESS IT UP....if he woud have turned around anything, he would NOT have been benched. He was benched because he still had the SAME limitation he had the seasons before...those limitations and his strengths were managed perfectly but the end product was still not good enough to win games on his back.
If Weeden gets managed perfectly, he has a much bigger ceiling than Smith as you CAN win games on his back if he reaches that ceiling...that's the difference...and an uncomparable sample size, but I already "noted" that
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I'd urge fans to get past the hangups of fearing what it would mean to lose Weeden and have him replaced with Smith. There's alot to like about the guy. God knows he's played better the last two seasons than any single season by a QB here in the last 14, but let's not allow that to get in the way of Weeden's "ceiling."
I know some fans fear losing the "value" of the 22nd pick of the 2012 draft if Weeden isn't kept.
I know some fans will rue the cost of sending a draft picking and paying Smith if he's brought here.
I know some fans want to paint Smith as a one-hit wonder, even though he's coming off 2 good seasons.
It's a tough spot, no doubt about it. However, it's hard to paint Smith as a one-hit wonder, and it's impossible to paint him as anything but a great teammate and a pro's pro.
Nice speech, lol
21 of 25 starts throwing under 240yds, half of them under 200yds..."good seasons", huh?
Matt Flynn had a QB rating of over 100 and 10yds/PA too, you want him as the Browns QB too? and Matt Flynn at least threw over 240yds in BOTH his career starts, lol
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I'm not entirely sure your efforts to remove head's from dark corners of the body are worthwhile Django.
In my mind some people have reached the very reasonable conclusion that Smith doesn't fit the system and has had a luxurious environment to play in.
Other people want to ramble on for pages selling an idea that reasonable people will dismiss. I'm not sure if there is any way around resolving that conflict with more typing.
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If Weeden was making $8 million a year and gave us a 104 rating on a winning team, he'd be hailed as the 1st round QB that finally made it.
toad...you cherry pick a half a year of stats by Smith, who was surrounded by Super Bowl talent and try to spin that into, we need to get that guy...now that is rich...actually it is funny as hell ! ...
Smith's 7 year career QB rating is 79.1...and when Smith was QBing a team much like our Browns today...a team in rebuilding mode...Smith's passing stats were horrible. Only when the 49ers got closer to finishing their rebuild, did Smith's numbers begin to show hope that he might be a good QB.
Anyone believing Alex Smith would walk into Cleveland and put up a 104 qb rating on a team that is about 60% down the road in rebuilding process is out of the touch with reality.
If Weeden never gets the chance to develop into a franchise QB, he won't be one.
I posted Peyton Manning's rookie numbers compared to Weeden's rookie numbers to show everyone, he is not junk and could very well be the Browns answer at the QB position...here they are again..
.Rk.....Player.....Comp..Att.....Pct......Yds...Avg...Yds/G...TD...Int...Sck...Rate ..
19.....Weeden... 297...517....57.4...3,385..6.5....225.7...14 ...17.. 28...72.6 ...
.Rk.....Player.....Comp..Att....Pct......Yds.....Avg...Yds/G...TD...Int...Sck...Rate ..
..3....Manning....326...575.....56.7....3,739...6.5....233.7...26....28...22....71.2..
But if the front office refuses to support Weeden, overspending for the 49ers castoff QB, Smith, you can stick a fork in Weeden because he will never even get the chance to develop into the Browns franchise QB.
If Banner goes after Smith, overpaying for him, then tries to spin it as the Browns bringing in some competition for Weeden...and you buy that spin...you are a fool.
This is all about Banner's ego, whether the Browns go with a QB picked by Holmgren/Heckert...or they dump him for someone else's trash.
Around 2 PM yesterday, I read the PFT story about Alex Smith and saw the Browns named as a place where Smith could land...I had to grin a little, thinking where does Florio come up with this stuff?
Of coarse, I already know the answer...
Last edited by mac; 02/04/13 08:06 AM.
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I am not big on comparing numbers, but I am for seeing Weeden one more season. If we don't see a nice spike in his production, throw the kitchen sink at one of the qbs available the following season.
I might even take steps this year to see that we are in good position next year. I wouldn't mind trading down enough to pick up a first rounder next year.
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I am not big on comparing numbers, but I am for seeing Weeden one more season. If we don't see a nice spike in his production, throw the kitchen sink at one of the qbs available the following season.
I might even take steps this year to see that we are in good position next year. I wouldn't mind trading down enough to pick up a first rounder next year.
I agree with that wholeheartedly.. I also think another method is Weeden this year and see if we can move up to the second and find a guy to groom behind him.
But either way would be fine with me
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DC.. u acting like Vick is just str8 garbage...
No, I just think his occasional highlight reel plays have caused him to be highly overrated by some.. Outside of one year, I think he has been pretty mediocre.
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I'd also take Vick over any other QB we have had since 99....
I try to not grade Browns players by the lowest common denominator... I don't want a guy who is marginally better than a bad collection of players, I want a guy that can get us where we want to go... and I do not believe that is Vick.
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even an older Vick is STILL a threat with his feet,
He's also a threat to play a lot less than 16 games a year because he can't stay healthy...
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and he can put the ball wherever u need it.
If on the ground is where you need it, then great. He can throw it a long way and once in a while make a wow throw... for the most part his accuracy is below average and his decision making has always been a question mark.
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Vick wouldn't be a long-term answer, bc I truly believe we wait and get "our" guy in next years draft when theres a TON of QBs to choose from.
We have a first round draft pick on the team right now... if the goal is to find somebody to man the ship for a year.. then let it be him. He had some warts last year but overall he didn't play too bad. Give him a year to see if he can take the next step and be the guy.. if he can't, fine, go get the guy you want. If he can, then you don't have to spend yet another high draft pick on a QB... I see no upside to bringing in Vick other than he can be exciting and fun to watch at times... I don't see what it does for the long term growth of this team at all...
I will amend that, if Norv and Chud really do plan to go get a running, read-option type QB in the draft next year, if that is there plan... then fine, end the Weeden experiment and go get Vick so the rest of the offense can spend a year preparing for it... but if the plan to install and run a power football offense, with vertical passing primarily from the pocket, then I don't see what we gain by getting Vick for one year.
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I am not big on comparing numbers, but I am for seeing Weeden one more season. If we don't see a nice spike in his production, throw the kitchen sink at one of the qbs available the following season.
I might even take steps this year to see that we are in good position next year. I wouldn't mind trading down enough to pick up a first rounder next year.
I'm in total agreement with you. I'm more than OK using our picks and FA to improve the rest of the team. If Weeden doesn't get the job done in 2013, we will all know for sure. We gave Colt (3rd round pick) a year and a half, I think Weeden (first round pick) deserves more, if not the same amount of time.
People want instant results, but it doesn't always work out that way. When you consider the garbage offense he was inserted into, it makes more sense. Chud's offense is all about throwing downfield, and running the ball. That should be the strength of this team. If Weeden can't show us anything next year, then I'm all for looking elsewhere. Who gives up on a first round QB after a year?
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Not I said the fl...er...Toad.
Flacco pulled an Eli Manning and rose to the occasion. He's good, but I'm not sure he's worth being the top paid QB in the league. Of course the highest paid QB isn't always the best one. Now throw in a couple of 1st round picks? Nope.
Yes Flacco rose to the occasion (as all good Qb's should). But he has gotten progressively better each and every year. He wins games and rarely is the cause for a lose.
As for money, yes it is a lot but in 3-4 years he won't be the top paid Qb and his salary will look like a bargin. Plus we have cap space.
Draft picks? Yes two 1st round picks i a lot. But Look what the Redskins gave up for RGIII, A guy with potential vs Flacco a known top 10 Qb. I think you stated earlier that you would give up a 3rd for Smith. At that price Flacco for two 1st is a bargain. He is head and heels better than Smith. And aren't you the one who keeps spouting that if you have the chance to fill the Qb position you do it? And aren't you the one that keeps saying that we keep saying that we will get one next year and continually fail to do so? I agree with those sentiments btw But this would definitively fix the Qb problems for the next 5-10 yrs whereas Smith will hopefully/possibly fix the Qb spot for 5-6 years.
On top of that you hurt the Ravens. All of a sudden we are set at QB and the Ravens are the ones trying to fill a void in the most important position on the field.
I don't know if the Ravens will let Flacco get to that point but if they do I most certainly drive up to Flacco's house in a Brink's truck. I don't know if Flacco would consider leaving the Ravens for the Browns no matter how much we offer but I make the attempt. And even if we don't get him we make sure that the offer hurts the Ravens from a salary cap standpoint.
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Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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That is a excellent point. You DON'T give up on a first round qb after 1 season. That's stupid.
I am all for creating a competitive environment, but not simply creating competition for the sake of creating competition.
This isn't a good year to draft a QB. I like Bray if we could get him at the bottom of the 3rd. The problem is we draft at the top of the 3rd.
I am also not sold on Smith.
I believe the prudent thing for us this year is to build on the foundation we have and supplement positions other than QB. I just don't see a qb fix this year, so don't try to force it. You have to allow the process to pan out.
JMO
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