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People are going to be pissed when Colt McCoy beats out Weeden in training camp.
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I really doubt that will happen. McCoy doesn't fit the offense, and the Browns brain trust has said all along that they are bringing in a QB to compete with Weeden. McCoy may not make it to training camp.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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I will be shocked if Colt isnt traded or just flat out released before training camp. I think most that like Weeden would like for us to draft competition but most also think bringing in Alex Smith to run the coryell offense is really dumb and almost as dumb as thinking Colt could ever beat out Weeden in this type of offense.
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I'm probably the biggest Weeden pimp around and I would have no problem selecting a QB, IF the value is ok
Give me YOUR definition of "Value" in a draft.
I can tell right now that as soon as this draft is over you are gonna spew more hatred for Lombardi because YOU don't agree that we got "Value" with any pick from round 3 on. And that right there will show your ignorance.
The talking heads do that because they get PAID to do it. Smart people grade drafts 2 and 3 years down the road. Anyone. And I mean ANYONE that does it before that time has ZERO Credibility with me.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to spew "Value" when a dude hasn't even stepped on an NFL football field. But you go right ahead and spew it. It's comical to read every morning. Starts my days off with a good laugh. And you're the self-proclaimed resident draft guru? lmao.
I've read enuff of you to know how you go about your so-called draft scouting. You've even said it yourself. You take every single internet guru's analysis and every You Tube video you can find and you come to these great conclusions about players. Then you have the GALL to sit and spew we didn't get "Value" before a guy even steps on a field. It's really hilarious but you enjoy yourself.
FACT. YOU said Gabbert was going to be a Franchise QB and that WE should take him the year he came out. FACT. Lombardi said the SAME EXACT THING. Hmmmmmmmmm. Hi Mike. And I know your response already. The same response any pompous attitude would spew. "I missed on ONE player". Yeah OK go with that one.
You have your fun doing your little Internet Scouting. Intelligent people will let guys hit the field for a couple years before we spout "Value".
PEEN. Dysert is the EXACT QB I would take a flyer on in Round 4. And let him sit for a couple of years to see what we've got under Turner's tuteledge. THEN and ONLY then will we be able to say we got "Value" in that selection.
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I will be shocked if Colt isnt traded or just flat out released before training camp. I think most that like Weeden would like for us to draft competition but most also think bringing in Alex Smith to run the coryell offense is really dumb and almost as dumb as thinking Colt could ever beat out Weeden in this type of offense.
A voice of reason. I agree totally.
Sorry Toad. Smith will not be a Brown. You're way off base with this one and the only reason the media is even mentioning Cleveland is because Smith was with Turner before. WOW. That's an easy one to tie Smith to Cleveland.
DA and Dysert in 4. That's the smart way to do this.
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Weeds is a first round pick...
The way I look at it Weeden WAS a 1st round pick.
Fans and teams get too caught up in this. Once a guy a is drafted, where he was drafted has little to no meaning. He is just another guy on your team. He shouldn't get any more playing time because of where he was drafted even though a lot of teams will play a guy based solely on where he was drafted. I think this is the wring approach and teams suffer because of it.
Woud out team be any different had we drafted Schwartz at the end of the 1st and used out 2nd round pick to take Weeden? Should Weeden get more chances because he was taken in the 1st instead of the 2nd? The answer to both is a resounding no.
Do you give up on a 1st rounder after one season? If he stinks yes. (not saying Weeden does or does not stink). Do you replace a guy who wins rookie of the year after one season because he was drafted in the 6th round? No that would be silly. Once a contract is signed, in my mind, it makes no difference where a player was drafted.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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Thanks to the archived draft forum where I voice my opinion on 100 and many more prospects anyone can read what I think is value, a good pick, a decent gamble and at what spot etc...I'm consistent and quotable: feel free and if you think that Banner/Haslam/Lombardi or even Heckert watch every snap of 20+ games of 300+ prospects, then I'm sorry to burst your bubble, that's the job of REGIONAL scouts and they read their profiles and double check themselves on targets...that's why every NFL team has a scouting TEAM. Missing on a player isn't the worst thing that can happen, as everyone has busts (my biggest evaluation miss I consider to be WR Hardy btw...I'm getting tired of only hearing about Gabbert, lol), the worst thing though is missing consistently...and that's the problem with Lombardi is that he misses more than he hits....what are the players he "hit" on? I've yet to hear that one great player he "found" or 3rd day sleeper he hit on Having said that, everyone who goes through the draft process has a good feel for the prospects and their value, their boom/bust factor etc, so evaluating a draft RIGHT AFTER it went down is as normal imho as evaluating the players BEFORE it, it's actually a direct consequence of it. What you're advocating is letting monkeys with darts decide which player goes where, because if you really think you can't evaluate a draft right after it, there's no point in scouting alltogether Totally offtopic, but you probably gave away that you are a "former" poster of this board or a 2nd nick of someone unless you are secretly lurk-hate-reading my posts for years...which would be worse btw 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Also, by your standards, we should have stuck with Brady Quinn. 
So SF had no business sticking with Smith for a 2nd year, let alone 4 (or 5 or whatever)? And the Giants should have replaced Manning after the 1st year?
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People are going to be pissed when Colt McCoy beats out Weeden in training camp.
Pissed,, no.. surprised,, you bet
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Weeden had no business running a dink and dunk WCO.
In the same way McCoy and Smith have no business running an Air Coryell.
Weeden is the prototype you look for in that offense. With the glut of quality QBs coming out next season I see no reason to not give him a shot this year.
I'll stand by whatever Chud and Turner decide. So long as the GM/Scouts don't take too much control I think we'll be alright no matter what way we go at QB.
The issue to me seems like Weeden is our best hope for an Elite QB in this system. And the outlook doesn't look that great for him. But scrambling for options doesn't seem to be finding a suitable solution until next season.
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I just dont understand why the Weeden bench here has such a problem with bringing in som alternatives.
I think you are overgeneralizing the other side. I don't think people are saying we shouldn't look for alternatives or someone to challenge Weeden. We just don't think Alex Smith is a good alternative, and a marriage to Alex Smith would be really dumb given his career under everyone not named Harbaugh. The only thing I can see being worthwhile at this point is giving Weeden another shot. If we can find a mid-round value pick or a decent free agent who does not blow the bank to come in and challenge him, I'm all for it.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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You DON'T give up on a first round qb after 1 season. That's stupid.
If a person doesn't want to give up on a 1st round pick after just one season for the sake of trying to recoup value when they don't believe in the player, that's called throwing good money at bad money and is faulty logic.
If a team thinks Weeden can turn the corner, that's different.
Does the organization think Weeds can do it? I haven't seen much, if any, support...
FAULTY LOGIC ?
Giving up on a first round pick after just one season goes beyond common sense...and "is" an example of "faulty logic".
Giving up on Weeden after he posted these numbers, is an example of faulty logic and defies common sense !
Weeden's rookie year vs Peyton Manning's rookie year...again !
.Rk.....Player.....Comp..Att.....Pct......Yds...Avg...Yds/G...TD...Int...Sck...Rate ..
19.....Weeden... 297...517....57.4...3,385..6.5....225.7...14 ...17.. 28...72.6 ...
.Rk.....Player.....Comp..Att....Pct......Yds.....Avg...Yds/G...TD...Int...Sck...Rate ..
..3....Manning....326...575.....56.7....3,739...6.5....233.7...26....28...22....71.2..
If Banner gives up on Weeden, it won't be because of Weeden's ability..or because of Weeden's potential to succeed.
If Banner gives up on Weeden, it will be due to his "faulty logic"...it will be based on Banner's "personal" issues, not on Weeden's rookie performance or potential!
Examples of "faulty logic"...
...this is "faulty logic"..."they don't believe in the player"
...this is "faulty logic"..."If a team thinks Weeden can turn the corner"
...this is "faulty logic"..."Does the organization think Weeds can do it?"
When Banner or Toad, refuse to consider Weeden's play on the field and refuse to consider the logical expectations of "a rookie QB" playing on a very young and inexperienced team...that is FAULTY LOGIC !
The Browns were and are a team rebuilding and many critical parts were added last season...
...a 1st round RB
...a 1st round QB
...a 2nd round WR
...a 2nd round RT
...a 4th round WR
The "logical choice" by most "experienced football GMs/CEO/owners", would consider all the elements that were factored into Weeden's performance and without a doubt, most "experienced GMs/CEO/owners", would support Weeden and allow him another season to develop.
The question becomes...do the Browns, led by their "inexperienced" GM/CEO/owner, use FAULTY JUDGEMENT, dumping the 1st round pick of Holmgren/Heckert..."wasting" the 2012 1st round pick...and reach for someone else's free agent castoff?
IMO, there is a better than 50/50 chance that Banner makes an "emotional" decision, not based on Weeden's rookie performance, but based on Banner's "personal, faulty logic"...and dumps Weeden.
It would be a "very stupid" thing for the Browns to do, dumping Weeden...but when we have an owner with an ego as big as Dan Snyder and he allows someone with Banner's history, to run his team...stupid decisions are likely to be made.
I look at the Ravens...specifically the decisions made by their GM, Ozzie Newsome...his draft picks and free agent moves...how the Newsome supported his 1st round QB pick (18th pick) Joe Flacco, even when Flacco's ability to be their franchise QB was questioned...if Joe Banner is not as smart as Newsome, the Browns chances of succeeding are very slim.
If Newsome were the Browns GM, would he dump Weeden?
The Browns don't have someone of Newsome's caliber...someone with a football background, making those (QB) football decisions. The Browns have a Joe Banner, whose claim to fame as a salary cap guru, does not compare to Ozzie Newsome's experience and football sense.
What would Ozzie do ?...he would likely be looking for top free agent talent at OG and WR, to help the offense...and he would focus his draft and free agency, on the defensive side, looking to add LBs, CBs.
But Haslam didn't hire an Ozzie Newsom..he hired Joe Banner...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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If Newsome were the Browns GM, would he dump Weeden?
More importantly, if Newsome were the Browns GM, would he have drafted Weeden at all.
Someone will be brought in to either push or take Weeden's job. Frankly, that's the smartest thing they could do. I favor bringing in someone like Smith to give us the greatest chance of finding the right guy.
Any investment...ANY investment...that helps produce a viable starting QB for the first time in this miserable franchises last fifteen years is worth it.
You can bet nobody in Seattle is ruing the cost of Matt Flynn.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Then we'd have to pay him even more. He'll want a team where he's the clear-cut starter.
I don't care how much we pay Smith. I don't even know why it's getting brought up to be honest. We're WAY under the cap and by way under, I mean not even close to spending the minimum required by the salary cap floor that is put in this year through the CBA (which will be something like $105M). If Smith ends up being a great QB, he'll be worth the money. If not, we'll dump him and take a cap hit that we can easily absorb and is paid out of Haslam's pocket, not ours. Money should have nothing to do with the decision to bring Smith aboard.
We're... we're good?
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If Newsome were the Browns GM, would he dump Weeden?
More importantly, if Newsome were the Browns GM, would he have drafted Weeden at all.
I don't see why not. He took Flacco, who had a similar scouting report (desirable height and arm strength, average athleticism, worked almost exclusively out of the shotgun), at 18. Flacco had the benefit of two things that Weeden didn't get here: a good head coach and a premier defense.
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Then we'd have to pay him even more. He'll want a team where he's the clear-cut starter.
I don't care how much we pay Smith. I don't even know why it's getting brought up to be honest. We're WAY under the cap and by way under, I mean not even close to spending the minimum required by the salary cap floor that is put in this year through the CBA (which will be something like $105M). If Smith ends up being a great QB, he'll be worth the money. If not, we'll dump him and take a cap hit that we can easily absorb and is paid out of Haslam's pocket, not ours. Money should have nothing to do with the decision to bring Smith aboard.
There is no reason we should tie up 20-25% of our projected cap space on a mediocre quarterback. You can't just sign guys to big money and dump them right away if they don't pan out. Your statement that we'll just "take a cap hit that comes out of Haslem's pocket" indicates to me that you're not quite clear on how this stuff works.
The absolute best case scenario that we trade for him and don't extend him, because we can get off with only paying his guaranteed $7.5 million for 2013. It's also the most unlikely scenario, though. In the event that he ends up here, it will likely either be via trade and come with an extension and large signing bonus (second "best" scenario), or he's released and we overpay him in free agency to come to an undesirable team in a cold-weather city in the league's strongest division to compete to play in an offensive system that doesn't suit his strengths. And that will cost a lot. Like I said before, just because you have the money doesn't mean you should spend it recklessly. Throwing tons of cash at Alex Smith is spending recklessly.
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You DON'T give up on a first round qb after 1 season. That's stupid.
If a person doesn't want to give up on a 1st round pick after just one season for the sake of trying to recoup value when they don't believe in the player, that's called throwing good money at bad money and is faulty logic.
If a team thinks Weeden can turn the corner, that's different.
Does the organization think Weeds can do it? I haven't seen much, if any, support...
I don't see much support for Weeden among the front office and primary coaches. As for me, I never did think he was the answer. I thought that it was beyond the realm of being possible for the Browns to draft him anyway. With the record of the previous regime, I should have expected it.
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People are going to be pissed when Colt McCoy beats out Weeden in training camp.
I think that the actual best QB in training camp and the preseason games will get the nod as the starting QB. I really don't expect that it'll be settled until probably the third preseason game.
Who it will eventually be, I haven't any clue. I'm still not convinced that Weeden will even be on the team next season. The same could hold true for McCoy, although I think it's less likely.
We may bring in a free agent, trade for someone like Alex Smith (and it'll be on the cheap as far as picks go due to the contract), or draft one in the draft. My inclination is that it'll be either of the first two.
There are a couple of reasons for my view of this.
1. The Browns aren't really pleased with the current crop of QBs in the draft.
2. The ownership has stated that they want to build through the draft. Due to the trade up for Richardson and the 2nd rounder spent on Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft, we're short this year. I know, we're really only down the 2nd for Gordon, but the number of picks given to move up one spot for Richardson made the talent level on the Browns more shallow than it could otherwise be. We'll either have to get them filled with free agents, trades for players, or by acquiring them through the draft.
3. We're not going to be trading away picks to move up into the second round. We may try and off-load players to get additional picks though. Some of those players could come from the defensive side of the ball because of the change from the 4-3 to the 3-4. Others could come from players on the offense that will be traded or allowed to leave in free agency and the compensatory picks that could be awarded.
We're going to be drafting the majority of our players - although we can sign free agents with lots of room to spare in the salary cap.
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Also, by your standards, we should have stuck with Brady Quinn.
So SF had no business sticking with Smith for a 2nd year, let alone 4 (or 5 or whatever)? And the Giants should have replaced Manning after the 1st year?
I didn't say any of that, I was talking about the Browns and a comment made by a supposed 'Browns fan' about a first round Browns drafted player.
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why do u keep comparing Manning's stats with Weeden's?
One was 22/23 the other 29. The colts at that time had a horrible Offensive line. You can compare stats all day long but Its the decision making and progression that you have to evaluate. Weeds simply didnt progress at all and had major difficulties once teams got a lil bit of tape on him. Next year will be worse. Teams will have a full year of tape on him and its typical for QB's to struggle more in their 2nd year. Check out those stats. And then tell me that your convinced by Weeds play last year and what he can do in the future.
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More importantly, if Newsome were the Browns GM, would he have drafted Weeden at all.
That isn't important at all. We can't go back and not draft Weeden. What is important is what do we do with him and the Qb position now.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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FAULTY LOGIC ?
Giving up on a first round pick after just one season goes beyond common sense...and "is" an example of "faulty logic".
Giving up on Weeden after he posted these numbers, is an example of faulty logic and defies common sense !
mac, did you even read what toad said? Let me put it back in here for you...
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If a team thinks Weeden can turn the corner, that's different.
And comparing Weeden to Peyton Manning... really? Are we still doing that?
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McCoy doesn't fit the offense, and the Browns brain trust has said all along that they are bringing in a QB to compete with Weeden. McCoy may not make it to training camp.
What they have said, I believe, is that Weeden will have to compete for the job. They have said nothing about bringing anyone in (if I am wrong let me know).
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McCoy doesn't fit the offense, and the Browns brain trust has said all along that they are bringing in a QB to compete with Weeden. McCoy may not make it to training camp.
What they have said, I believe, is that Weeden will have to compete for the job. They have said nothing about bringing anyone in (if I am wrong let me know).
Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam says QB Brandon Weeden will have competition for starting job: Browns Insider | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/02/cleveland_browns_owner_jimmy_h_6.html
New Orleans – Jimmy Haslam, who is enjoying his first Super Bowl experience as owner of the Browns, said Friday that Brandon Weeden will have competition for the starting quarterback's job this coming season.
“I think Norv [Turner] and [Rob] Chudzinski have been very open that they like a lot of what Brandon does, but we're going to have competition at that position, and I think competition makes us all better,” Haslam said after the Walton Payton Man of Year finalists' news conference. Browns left tackle Joe Thomas is one of three men up for the award tonight, along with Dallas' Jason Witten and Arizona's Larry Fitzgerald. “We'll see where that competition comes from.”
Two high-profile veteran quarterbacks expected to become available are the 49ers' Alex Smith, who played for Turner in 2006 in San Francisco, and Eagles quarterback Michael Vick, who was with Browns CEO Joe Banner in Philadelphia. Banner likes Vick, according to sources, but he'll be 33 in June and is coming off a poor season.
The Boston Globe has speculated that Browns Vice President of Player Personnel Mike Lombardi might try to trade for New England backup Ryan Mallett, the Patriots' third-round pick in 2011.
The Browns might also try to trade for a quarterback or look for one in the draft, where they have the No. 6 overall pick. Top prospects include West Virginia's Geno Smith, Southern Cal's Matt Barkley and North Carolina State's Mike Glennon.
Thomas and Browns tight end Ben Watson, who is also in New Orleans participating in Super Bowl events, are all for competition at the quarterback spot.
“We have a couple of guys that have a lot of starting experience [Weeden and Colt McCoy], and we’ve got one guy who’s got a start [Thad Lewis],” Thomas said. “I don’t know what angle they’re going to take as far as the quarterback goes, but I imagine there will be a competition in the spring, and I’m excited to see who wins.”
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Weeds simply didnt progress at all and had major difficulties once teams got a lil bit of tape on him. Next year will be worse. Teams will have a full year of tape on him and its typical for QB's to struggle more in their 2nd year.
Weeden improved more in his first year than you are giving him credit for. In fact, I saw dramatic improvement in him throughout the year. You look at where he was in preseason and in week 1 and wow he was horrid.
He rebounded and people forget he played some pretty good football for awhile there then towards the end of the year he seemed to hit the rookie wall or as you stated teams developed the book on him and he was bad.
Honestly, I thought he was improving every week right up until Shurmur basically called him out for picks and began taking the ball out of weeden's hands in the redzone.
The Quick 3 step drop required in Shurmur's offense is gone and we will see 5and 7 step drops with a lot of gun. This plays to Weeden's strengths. We will be working the mid to deep parts of the field and again, that would play into Weeden's strengths although down the stretch, I thought Weeden wasnt throwing the deep ball with the accuracy he showed earlier.
Anyway I think it is going to be hard to beat Weeden out in this scheme. It really plays to his strengths. Landry Jones is one to watch as I believe he will wow people (especially Chud). Barkley is Lombari's guy have no doubts about this one. Again we will draft one, the question will be which one and how high do we go.
OO and for people that keep bringing up DJ and Gabbert. DJ said "Blaine will bust if they just throw him in there. He needs to sit for a year while they build the team up". The team wasnt ready for a rookie QB and it is kinda silly to bust a guys chops when he was correct.
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Thank you for proving my point. Nowhere in that article does a person employed by the Browns state that they are "bringing someone in." The names brought up in that article are based on speculation. This is what we know: Quote:
"I think Norv [Turner] and [Rob] Chudzinski have been very open that they like a lot of what Brandon does, but we're going to have competition at that position, and I think competition makes us all better."
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Why did you post that ytown? It basically makes his point... they have said there will be a competition, it does not say from anybody inside the Browns that the competitor will come from the outside... Haslam says Norv and Chud agree that there will be a competition.. that's all. Then at the end JT says there will be a competition and specifically names the 3 QBs we have... in between is a bunch of stuff from anonymous sources that speculates on what else we might do...
yebat' Putin
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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There is no reason we should tie up 20-25% of our projected cap space on a mediocre quarterback. You can't just sign guys to big money and dump them right away if they don't pan out. Your statement that we'll just "take a cap hit that comes out of Haslem's pocket" indicates to me that you're not quite clear on how this stuff works.
The absolute best case scenario that we trade for him and don't extend him, because we can get off with only paying his guaranteed $7.5 million for 2013. It's also the most unlikely scenario, though. In the event that he ends up here, it will likely either be via trade and come with an extension and large signing bonus (second "best" scenario), or he's released and we overpay him in free agency to come to an undesirable team in a cold-weather city in the league's strongest division to compete to play in an offensive system that doesn't suit his strengths. And that will cost a lot. Like I said before, just because you have the money doesn't mean you should spend it recklessly. Throwing tons of cash at Alex Smith is spending recklessly.
I'm very clear how this stuff works. We're preposterously under the cap and Haslam said he doesn't want to sign a big name free agent so the spending needs to come from somewhere to meet the salary floor and extensions will only do so much. When cap space isn't an issue, the only thing that matters is whether or not the owner wants to sign the check. If we cut him, we take a cap hit which again, given that we're so overloaded in cap space, is pretty irrelevant in the present.
I honestly have no clue how this fanbase can declare "Smith is mediocre" when he was 6-2 on pace for a 3500 yard, 70% completion, 26 TD, 10 INT, 104 QB rating 260 rushing yard season... yet sing the praises of Weeden when he was worse than mediocre in the same breath. Never before have I seen arm strength win an argument vs. a QB who is superior on so many levels. Did having less than a cannon stop Bernie from winning here? It's time we opened our minds a little.
If Smith is our guy and if he wants to come here, we need to make it happen. I'm willing to pay for a guy like that, even at the expense of a 30 year old developmental QB coming off a lousy season. 
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Can someone give me the situation with the Browns and the cap floor, assuming they sign back the guys they are likely to sign (not including Phil)
I'm just wondering where we will be at, and where we need to be, and just how much we have to spend outside of taking care of our own players.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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“I think Norv [Turner] and [Rob] Chudzinski have been very open that they like a lot of what Brandon does, but we're going to have competition at that position, and I think competition makes us all better,” Haslam said after the Walton Payton Man of Year finalists' news conference. Browns left tackle Joe Thomas is one of three men up for the award tonight, along with Dallas' Jason Witten and Arizona's Larry Fitzgerald. “We'll see where that competition comes from.”
Well .... they like a lot of what Brandon does, but they are going to have competition. We'll see where it comes from.
Given that McCoy does not fit the offense that Chud and Norv run, I have real trouble seeing him being here as a "challenger", let along starting. If I had to guess, we'll probably bring in either DA or Vick (bleh) as a "challenger" for Weeden.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Yeah, I'm not sure why some think it's such a leap that we will bring someone in.
You weren't claiming they declared that ... just kind of assuming it.
Safe assumption, IMO.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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I don't see much support for Weeden among the front office and primary coaches.
Well, let's examine that statement for more than what you mean.. Who have they thrown unconditional support behind? What player?
Now it does appear they've said, we like what Warhop has done with the Oline. So, maybe they are saying they love the Oline? Same with Tabor on ST.
But beyond that,, I don't remember them fawning over anyone. I mean Josh Gordon was really coming on well last year.. Someone should be saying something about him right, how about Joe Thomas, and the way that Little played from about Midway through the season should have drawn some praise right.
But no gushing. No real knocking of any players either.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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Smith is a small ball QB. IT is that simple. He doesn't have the arm strength he had 5 years ago. HE in NO way fits the Air Coryell offense. Why would we sign a QB that is going to make us throw out 80% of the freaking playbook because he cant make the throw?
Look if we were running the same scheme as last year, then I would be all for trying to bring Smith in but you do not bring in someone whose skill set is not compatible with this offense. It would be about as smart as drafting a 30 year old shotgun spread QB to run a 3 step drop WCO.
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Legend
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Quote:
It would be about as smart as drafting a 30 year old shotgun spread QB to run a 3 step drop WCO.
No team would ever be dumb enough to do that.
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I also think it's a possibility we bring someone else in, but I just wanted to point out that no one employed by the Browns has said anything about bringing any players in.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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It would be about as smart as drafting a 30 year old shotgun spread QB to run a 3 step drop WCO.
No team would ever be dumb enough to do that.
I know. Why do GMs purposely out-think themselves so often?!?
I mean take a look at the guy's tape in college. And if a guy is good at that...then maybe there's a reason and have him do that same thing in the pros if he has the elite physical tools.
I just don't understand all the unnecessary projection type drafting protocols at work here.
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Legend
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Legend
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Thought this might fit in here ...... Statistics show West Coast was never the best route for Cleveland Browns' Brandon Weeden: Terry Pluto | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/inde...t_river_defaultCLEVELAND, Ohio -- Is Brandon Weeden the right quarterback for the Browns in 2013? The new front office and coaching staff are trying to figure that out now. They certainly will bring in another quarterback, as I hear they don't consider Colt McCoy a viable starting option. But their evaluation of Weeden is complicated by one simple fact --he was playing in the wrong system. The West Coast offense stresses a quarterback taking a snap directly under center, and then taking three steps back followed by a throw. Or it's five steps and a longer throw.Either way, it's a quick-rhythm system. It's also a system new to Weeden in his rookie season, a system that's out of favor in the current NFL, or at least the version used in Cleveland. At Oklahoma State, Weeden threw out of the shotgun on nearly every pass. Profootballfocus.com said 43 percent of Weeden's passes in 2012 came from the shotgun, where he received a snap about five yards behind the center. On the surface, it's hard to know what that 43 percent indicates. But here's the deal: 1. NFL QBs threw out of shotgun an average of 66 percent of the time. 2. Of the 39 QBs examined by Profootballfocus, only Houston's Matt Schaub (34 percent) threw a lower percentage of his passes from the shotgun than Weeden. 3. Weeden was more effective from the shotgun, with a QB rating of 79.1 with eight touchdown passes and seven interceptions. Under center, it was 67.7 with six TDs and 10 picks. 4. Weeden threw 73 more passes from under center than the shotgun, which is why these stats are meaningful. He simply is not a West Coast style quarterback. The Browns have all this data and more. The new staff -- head coach Rob Chudzinski and offensive coordinator Norv Turner -- are far more open to the shotgun formation. Consider the following: 1. In Carolina, Chudzinski had Cam Newton in the shotgun for 79 percent of his passes, fourth-highest in the NFL. 2. In San Diego, Turner had Philip Rivers in the shotgun 77 percent of the time, eighth in the NFL. What does all this mean? Weeden's strength is standing in the pocket and throwing deep. But the West Coast offense stresses snaps under center and quick throws. It's also very possible that Weeden's league-leading 25 passes batted down is partly due to being so often under center, where he's closer to the defensive linemen as he throws. Can the Browns assume Weeden will improve in an offense that tends to stress throwing downfield? Yes, they can. Especially since most quarterbacks simply play better after their rookie seasons, regardless of the system. Is that enough for the Browns to commit long range to Weeden? That's something being discussed right now. They also are asking, "If not Weeden, then who?" Do they make a big deal for Alex Smith? Would he be that much of an upgrade over Weeden? Those questions haven't been answered yet. I generally stay away from knocking a previous coaching staff, but the data does show that the offense used by the Browns last season was not best suited to their rookie quarterback. Firing from the shotgun Top-10 NFL QBs in percentage of shotgun throws. 1. Matthew Stafford, Lions: 84.6 2. Peyton Manning, Broncos: 81.1 3. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bills: 80.8 4. Cam Newton, Panthers: 79.1 5. Nick Foles, Eagles: 78.9 6. Aaron Rodgers, Packers: 78.2 7. John Skelton, Cardinals: 77.8 8. Philip Rivers, Chargers: 76.6 9. Robert Griffin III, Redskins: 75.4 10. Kevin Kolb, Cardinals: 75.1 NFL average: 65.7 37. Alex Smith, 49ers: 48.7 38. Brandon Weeden, Browns: 43.3 39. Matt Schaub, Texans: 34.2 Weeden in shotgun: 132-222, 8 TDs, 7 ints., 79.1 rating Weeden under center: 165-295, 6 TDs, 10 ints., 67.7 rating
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,976
Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 39,976 |
Quote:
Quote:
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It would be about as smart as drafting a 30 year old shotgun spread QB to run a 3 step drop WCO.
No team would ever be dumb enough to do that.
I know. Why do GMs purposely out-think themselves so often?!?
I mean take a look at the guy's tape in college. And if a guy is good at that...then maybe there's a reason and have him do that same thing in the pros if he has the elite physical tools.
I just don't understand all the unnecessary projection type drafting protocols at work here.
They project to what they know. They don't project to what the NFL will become. The NFL is at a crossroads. It still wants to stick to a dropback game but the players entering the league don't play that game anymore....go watch a few HS games if you or others don't believe me. I go to maybe 8-9 HS games a year all over the city. I look for a good match-up and I am there. Locally, Red Bank is my favorite team.
Let's take this guy and mold him in to this system rather than play the system he is a proven player. It's dumb, old school thinking.
Look at it the other way....not you, others...what if someone drafted Peyton Manning to be a spread option QB and wanted him to read ends and run as required?
How big of a fail would that have been?
Weeden needs to be in some type of a gun with a quick paced O. I agree with many, Colt would have been our best WCO option....a short pass system.
With Chud and his system, I think Weeden will flourish.
Anderson flourished in that system and Weeden is better than Anderson.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Aug 2007
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Posts: 989 |
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Anyway I think it is going to be hard to beat Weeden out in this scheme. It really plays to his strengths. Landry Jones is one to watch as I believe he will wow people (especially Chud). Barkley is Lombari's guy have no doubts about this one. Again we will draft one, the question will be which one and how high do we go.
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Landry Jones really??? He couldnt even start full-time in College his senior year and a he's your guy? Didnt you want Sanchez too a few years ago?
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Legend
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Legend
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If the Browns are dumb enough to sign Smith, they deserve what they get 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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