DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Godfather Movie ... uh, not that good?

I hesitate to make this post for fear of major ridicule and the potential opening of Pandora's Box for even mentioning "Godfather" and "bad" in the same context ... as this is supposedly the greatest movie ever created by human hands

But a few weeks ago, I saw The Godfather in a bargain bin and decided to pick it up, as I had never actually seen it for all these years … So I sat down and watched it and … was quite disappointed.

*MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW … you know for the other 4 people who haven’t seen this movie yet*

Now yes, I can understand that this movie is older than dirt, and was made at a time when throwing your hands up in the air and running around while shot was considered "good acting". I realize that it wasn’t stuffed with non-stop action, explosions, Shakey-cam(tm) and other things that would generally hold the attention of today’s ADHD society. I get that they couldn’t insert Blue-screen effects, make all the women look like Barbie dolls, or generate the entire movie from within a computer … but I can look past all of that.

There seemed to be a real lack of an actual story. It also failed what’s sort of my current measuring stick for a movie: If you take out all of the violence, sex and anything else that would give it an R rating, would people really like it that much?

So yeah, I get that it was made in a different era of movies, and maybe it just doesn't work well because it's a 40+ year old script. But you've also got movies like the Sound of Music and Star Wars, which still hold up pretty darn well after all this time. Both of those movies have a clear protagonist with real goals. You first grow to understand their plight and follow them through their trials and small victories and watch them grow as a character. Eventually you work to a climax where you still wonder if they'll actually succeed even after watching it 50 times.

In The Godfather ... you have Michael as the protagonist (I’m assuming). You don’t really get to see much of him in the beginning, other than to show he’s sort of the “good son” war hero, and is deeply in love with one woman. After that we don’t see him for awhile, until he pops up to thwart an attempt on his dad‘s life and gets punched in the face by a crooked cop. Suddenly, this causes him to flip a 180. He dives straight into the “business” like he said he’d never do. Kills two people. Runs off to Italy without his girlfriend. For no apparent reason meets and marries another woman in what seems like a month, Takes just enough time for her to get a nude-scene in there, before the screen-writers decide she’s served her purpose, kill her off and set the stage for Michael to comes back to the US to be with his real love. Suddenly he is running the family business, despite him saying all along "That’s not me", and the rest of us never see him actually “train” into becoming the head of the family outside of a short conversation or two.

To top things off, the climax of the movie isn't really a climax. His Dad tells him someone will go against him and try to set up an assassination attempt … so he learns who it is and has everyone shot up while he's sitting around safely in a baptism. There's no real worries that Nazis might find him hiding out in an abbey graveyard and throw him into prison or that the Death Star will blow up his mansion if he doesn't succeed in time.

Sure there is some decent character development from the other guys in the movie, some good one-liners, life lessons and other takeaways, but the Greatest Movie Ever?? What am I missing here? Is everyone going to tell me I’m supposed to read the book first?

Please give me your address so I can come and kick you in the shins, you heathen.

I have a feeling this movie for me is like Star Wars. I love both of them, but I know people who despise them both. And, I kick those people in the shins, too.

I have seen some movies that people absolutely love that I just can't get into. Can't put my finger on it, but I just can't do it. So, you're probably there with this movie.

For me, I just really get wrapped up in the characters. I think Pacino is phenomenal as Michael, and Marlon Brando, for being on screen as short a time as he is, is outstanding. I also think the cinematography is A+. I love the part when they're at the baptism and the assassinations are happening.

Godfather II is an amazing movie, too, though maybe you'd have the same experience as you did with the first one.

Peter: But since we're all gonna die, there's one more secret I feel I have to share with you. I did not care for The Godfather.

Lois: What?

Peter: Did not care for The Godfather.

Chris: How can you even say that, dad?

Peter: Didn't like it.

Lois: Peter, it's so good! It's like the perfect movie!

Peter: This is what everyone always said. Whenever they say...

Chris: Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, I mean, you never see, Robert Duvall!

Peter: Fine. Fine. Did not like the movie.

Brian: Why not?

Peter: Did not-- Couldn't get into it.

Lois: Explain yourself. What didn't you like about it?

Peter: It insists upon itself, Lois.

Lois: What?

Peter: It insists upon itself.

Lois: What does that even mean?

Chris: Because it has a valid point to make, it's insisted!

Peter: It takes forever getting in; you spend like six and a half hours... You know, I can't get through, I've never even finished the movie. I've never seen the ending.

Chris: You've never seen the ending?!

Stewie: How can you say you don't like it if you haven't even given it a chance?

Lois: You know, I agree with Stewie. It's not even fair.

Peter: I have tried on three separate occasions to get through it, and I get to the scene where all the guys are sitting around on the easy chairs.

Lois: Yeah, it's a great scene. I love that scene.

Peter: I have no idea what they're talking about. It's like they're speaking a different... You know, that's where I lose interest in it.

Chris: They're speaking Italian!

Lois: The language they're speaking is a language of subtlety; it's something you don't understand.

Peter: I love The Money Pit. That is my answer to that statement.

Lois: Exactly.

Peter: Well, there you go.

Lois: Whatever.

Chris: I like that movie too.

Ah, missed the reference!



I've at least watched the whole movie though!

I always thought Goodfellas was the better movie. Gave you a better sense of what the mafia was like. The good and the bad. Scorsese made you feel like you were there.

Damn, I was just going to post this. Goodfellas is a "must stop and watch to completion" movie. If I see it on the guide, I watch.

Now, Casino is right up there with Goodfellas....but there's a point in the movie where all the mafia stuff stops and then it just turns into a "relationship gone wrong" movie. The Stone/De Niro deraviling becomes the whole ending and I kind of lose interest.

I just don't get why Scorsese wasted the last 25% of the movie there (or was it more than 25%?). De Niro's character, Sam, was this brilliant odds man...so he should have seen Ginger was a lost cause. But he keeps trying to win her back, keep trusting her, & keep playing her games. I felt it didn't fit Sam's profile.

And yes, I didn't really "get" the Godfather. Not that I didn't like it, I just didn't get it. Maybe because I've watched all the other mafia movies that came after before I watched the first.

Oh ya, does Scarface count as a mafia movie?

I've never seen it. Really, no desire to see it.

Godfather II is better than The Godfather. Michael is the more interesting character and, as you noted, he only gets half-billing in the original.

That said, I still like the original as well. It's slow moving, but the main under-pinnings of what made the mafia what it was (basing themselves on the Roman military hierarchy, etc.) are all said to be the standard bearers for what came after it.

Basically, I view it as The Godfather is the character development while Godfather II is the main plot.

Well, I think you kinda missed some of the key factors.. First, the movie was made in the early 70's but set in the 20's and 30's. So, that's supposedly the way they acted back then in real life. I'm 61 years old (in a few weeks) and I remember my grandfather (who was not a mafia don but knew them so well that they would come to his house for dinner and break bread and drink his homemade wine.

My mom told me the stories from when she was a little girl (she's 87, funny thing, she can tell you something that happened 50 years ago but can't remember what she had for breakfast, age is not for the weak)

I have pictures of all the dons that would come to my grandfathers house on Saturday nights for dinner.

Man I'm telling you, if you saw those pictures, you would know that Mario Puzo wrote it right on and Coppola put it on the screen accurately.

Another thing, as a kid, I saw for myself how these guys operated (again, my grandfather was like the guy that did them favors, like the undertaker did for Don Corleone when Sonny got shot) even in the late 50's and 60's, that's the way it still was, it's just that the smarter ones were quieter about it.. Not like the Dapper Don in NYC, John Gotti. That fool couldn't stay out of the limelight.

What I'm trying to say to you is that from my experience and my moms recollection, (and other relatives) the portrayal of Italian Americans from that era were accuratly reflected in the Godfather.

Now, let me say this to you cause it will help you out a lot. Go get Godfather 2 and watch it it will give you some background that will help you really grasp the entire project.

Skip,, PLEASE skip Godfather 3.. Now that one, REALLY SUCKED.

Its funny how people react when you don't like their favorite movies. My sister in law got royally PO'd when I said I thought "Rudy" blew. I had a college prof (yeah, I took a Film Appreciation elective) get very annoyed because I didn't like "Citizen Kane". Then there was a friend of mine who acted like I called her mother a whore when I said I didn't like "Breakfast At Tiffanys". Anyway, you know what they say about opinions ...

I guess I'm more shocked people have not seen certain movies...as opposed to not liking them.

For example, Star Wars. I'm sure someone on this board or even in this thread hasn't seen it. That's surprising to me (though, at some age, it drops out of required viewing).

If I'm honest with myself, if I met a guy that was 45'ish and he claimed to have never seen Star Wars, I'd assume he was lying.

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Its funny how people react when you don't like their favorite movies.

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I hear you. Those Star Wars people get ticked when I tell them I didn't like the movies, but thought Jim Henson did a pretty good job with the characters.

My wife too has never seen Star Wars.
She has never participated in social media (facebook, linkedin, etc.).
She reads a lot.
She's very successful and good looking.

I act as her counterbalance.

If Frank Oz had done Godfather, it might have been a good movie.

"Leave the gun, take the cookie".

Somebody get a horse's head ready .... But for real, watch the 2nd movie before completing your opinion, like someone suggested. The second one is my favorite as well.

And FYI the first one takes place right after WW2, not in the 20's/30's

I love seeing how the mafia lifestyle pulls Michael in. It's like seeing a hero gradual turn into the villain. I see his story as tragic, revealing, and beautiful.

Your not alone.

I had seen clips here and there, and knew most of the references and when people would bring out a line or quote, but had never sat down to watch the whole thing until maybe a year or 2 ago it was on HBO or something so I sat down and watched it.

While I thought it was an OK movie, I thought it really lacked any real plot, and of course the dated-ness of the movie didn't help, even set in an earlier time didn't help.

About a month later I finally saw Scarface. Again, didn't think it was a GREAT movie, although I did enjoy it much more than I did GF, it at least had me captured to see what was going to happen next (even though I knew the ending)

FYI - Classic movies I have never sat down to watch:
Sound of Music
Chitty Chitty Bang
Mary Poppins
Godfather II or III
Casablanca
Gone with the Wind
Doctor Zhivago
Citizen Cane
Psycho (Saw the remake a few years ago, but never the original)
Most of the Disney Classics (Cinderella, Snow White, etc)

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Basically, I view it as The Godfather is the character development while Godfather II is the main plot.

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This.

Please watch Godfather 2. And as another poster said, no need to bother with the 3rd.

Florida,

in college, I dated this girl who said Casablanca was the best movie ever. We broke up before we watched it together, but years later on a rainy day I sat down and watched it all the way through. Turns out, she was right.

It might seem a little slow at first (as all old movies do), and you might not like it, but I think out of that list, you should really give Casablanca a chance.

Also, An Affair To Remember is another classic movie that I like a lot.

Yeah, it's not that I refuse to watch movies on that list, just not going to go out of my way to do so. If they happen to come on one day and I have time I would probably sit and watch, much like Godfather and Scarface.

Although I just really have no inteest in The Sound of Music. I know everyone says it's great and they love it, but for some reason it doesn't draw me in. Of course the only scene they ever show is the one where she runs through the field singing. Nothing about that scene is capturing unless maybe you've seen the movie and can put it in context.

It would be like a Star Wars promo just showing Luke standing around on his uncles farm on Tatooine.

I Guess I disagree with lack of plot. The plot is the fall (or rise depending on how you look at it) of Micheal from not wanting to be part of the "Family Buisiness" to becoming the Godfather. I feel they go through that progression very well, showing at first his desire to not be the "Italian Mobster" (and he continues that throughout the series with trying to take the Family business to being "Legit" or legal.)

The assassination attempt on his father pulled him in know or feeling compelled to be involved, in my own opinion I think he felt if he didn't get involved his father would die. I got the impression he didn't think highly of his brother Sonny's ability to lead the family. Micheal was more cool calculating where has Sonny was reckless and didn't think before acting.

In Italy I thought his demeanor showed his inner conflict between not wanting to be involved and the fact that he did. He found love, got married and if nothing had happen he probably would have lived the rest of his life in Italy with her. But Sonny was killed, they Killed Appalonia and that was the breaking of Micheal.

Mobster families were like Medieval Royal Families, they have loyal subjects and heirs took over the rule of the family. With Sonny dead and Fredo not "Don" material Micheal and his father Vito knew he had to take control. Had Micheal walked away and said "I'm not doing it" do you think the other families would have left them alone? No the Corleone faimly would have lost all protection and support from the other families under them and they would have all been killed out of principle. This premiss is kind of assumed that the watcher should understand and isn't outright stated.

With his father teaching him about how the other families operate he knows that they will try and kill him to get the Corleone family out of the way. Mike's ambition to be a Legit bushiness and take over the casino's angers Mo Greene which also Mentions that Mo has already been talking with the other families and the feeling that the Corleone family is finished.

Micheal being the smart cool headed leader he doesn't fall for the assassination plot and in turn devises his own killing all the other family heads and Tessio for betraying him also killing Carlo because Micheal had already known Carlo with "Don" Barzini set Sonny up, knowing that if Carlo beat Connie Sonny would fly off the handle and would come to find him(Carlo).

Thus showing that even though Micheal has an inner struggle; he will lead the family and show anyone that he is not weak.

To me it was a very good plot, I've never read the books so I'm not sure if my conclusions are correct with the novels but that is my viewing and opinions of the movies which are in my top 5 of all time. And I didn't mind the third Godfather either, not as good as the other two but it gave closure to the series and isn't as bad as everyone says.

Thanks for the explanation!

For me, I also enjoyed Episode I. A great movie? No, not at all. But I think it was necessary to set the story.

For me, Episode III was amazing. I thought it was very dark, but very good.

Hey, Excl, maybe you should have watched Police Academy instead...

Just kidding. To each his own. I used to get all into movie debates & call people crazy & whatnot. But its just movies. If everyone agreed we'd be in a pretty dull society.

I happen to LOVE Godfathers I & II. That third one though. WOW it was awful... In my opinion, of course.

FA,
I would just like to add to your very well thought out Plot Summary some aspects that I thought were important. The aspect of Sallazo being backed by the Tattaglia family in a move towards pushing drugs eventually puts the Corleone into a position of weakness. As there is so much money to be had in the Drug Business,and Vito with most of the power and influence(politically and personally among the Dons)refusing to cooperate....it forces the assassination attempt on Vito.

This of course sparks off a whole slew of actions concerning Michael, and Sonny, etc. In the aftermath, Vito has lost Sonny and many men in Sonny's War, and he loses a bit of face because everyone is now in the Drug Business anyway AND they get to use Vito's political Influences anyway. So before Michael officially takes power, the Corleone family has taken a HUGE hit. Politically, in manpower...they are scraping the barrel in comparison to the other families.

Michael changes that. The fact he changes that and How he changes that should not be overlooked in that aspect. Especially when he wrestled with the decision to enter "the business" in the first place.

Even when he killed Sallazo, he hadn't committed to the business, he wanted to settle a score. He was smart and able to align it with the business of the family...but he hadn't committed to the family business completely...As FA said.....It wasn't until Sonny and Apolonia were killed that he fully committed.