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Thanks for the feedback. 
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Jester I would also add his family lives in Texas during the season.
Phil thank you and good luck if you decide to leave.
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Opinions on whether FA (so far) has altered your thoughts or the organizations
dratf board?
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I don't think the Kruger precludes us drafting an outside linebacker, but I think it makes it less likely.
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If they sign Groves tomorrow I think it makes it highly unlikely we draft an OLB at 6. However, they could still draft one I guess if they think he is the BPA. I am just happy we are positioning ourselves to draft BPA because we have been forced to go need the past three drafts.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Groves is nothing more than a backup. I would hope signing him wouldn't affect our draft day decisions.
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I agree Willie. It gives us the possible luxery of a Geno Smith or EJ Manual or another skilled player.
Even a trade back would become a viable option! Oline stud maybe to shore up that right side?
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I draft Xavier Rhodes CB from FSU. I think we may still take an OLB especially Jones if available but Rhodes is the guy I truly believe in.
My top 10 talents
1. Joeckel
2. Rhodes
3. Millner ( yea u guys convinced me that he is that good)
4. Star (medical pending)
5. Jones
6. Floyd
7. Jordan
8. Ansah
9. Bjorn Werner
10. Jonathon Hankins and it is not OSU homerism since I am an SEC guy :P lol
Not as big on Fisher, the level of competition is a concern.
Moore I love but I just hate the look on his face before he lined up to run the 40 then I thought he pulled up lame before he ran. He was looking for a way out and grabbing his hammy was his way out.
Anyway to your question, I think having Kruger doesnt preclude us from drafting jones as I am thinking Horton will have him inside, wide anywhere and everywhere but I think it sets up the trade down situation most of all even though I really like Rhodes. The last corner I was this high on was Revis and he went something like 17 so dont laugh at me just yet :P.
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Isn't Groves the LB Oakland drafted high and was a big bust? He must have looked some what good in Arizona..hoping Horton can make our players look better 
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I hope Horton brings out the best in all...though I really wasn't down on Jauron.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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It's now being reported Groves - LB - Browns Browns agreed to terms with OLB Quentin Groves, formerly of the Cardinals. Groves and new Browns defensive coordinator Ray Horton spent last season together in Arizona, where Horton held the same position. Groves was a useful reserve, compiling 46 tackles and four sacks despite starting just seven times. He figures to push Jabaal Sheard and Chris Gocong for snaps opposite Paul Kruger in Cleveland. http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football
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Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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I think Groves was originally drafted by Jax
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Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Played 2 yrs in Jax then 2 in Oak before moving to Arizona
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Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Did he play in a 3-4 in OAK in those seasons? With all the back and forth D-switching of teams I don't know anymore
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
I agree Willie. It gives us the possible luxery of a Geno Smith or EJ Manual or another skilled player.
Even a trade back would become a viable option! Oline stud maybe to shore up that right side?
Honestly, going for any QB in this draft at 6 is a reach.. I don't see that happening at all.
In fact, I don't see a top 10 QB in this draft.
Milliner maybe would be the best for us at 6 or a trade down and get a TE or Safety maybe. Drafting always makes me crazy,,LOL
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Quote:
Did he play in a 3-4 in OAK in those seasons? With all the back and forth D-switching of teams I don't know anymore
There are a hand full of teams that have a defensive system and stick with it. Other than those, there is so much bak and forth, who can tell.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Isn't Groves the LB Oakland drafted high and was a big bust? He must have looked some what good in Arizona..hoping Horton can make our players look better
one of the reasons I liked Horton for the DC job is that he finds what players are good at and puts them in situations to use it.
Daryl Washington is small for a 3-4 ILB, but Horton stunted him off the NT and even DE's on blitzes to help him be able to utilize his speed.
Quentin Groves was considered all but washed out of the NFL, but Horton saw that he could get the edge, so he was a situational pass rusher for Arizona and he thrived in that role.
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FA signings don't change a thing with the draft. All it would do is eliminate "URGENT NEED" - as for LBs...OLB specifically for a 3-4 Defense...you cannot have enough of them. And Groves, Kruger do not give us a Dominant player on that Edge Rush...like Ware, Orakpo when healthy, Harrison in his prime, Clay Matthews.
Kruger gives us a Piece of the puzzle. Big motor if they pay attention to the other side he will make that a mistake. Groves will be a player that can help Horton put his system in.
But if Ansah or Jones is there n we want them...these pick ups do not change a thing.
It might change the direction of mid-late round picks as we got depth now at LB. But it will not change the 1st round pick AT ALL. Not 3-4 LB w/explosion. CB if we get Keenen Lewis??? Possibly could change Millner as an option? But in this NFL 3 solid CBs is not a bad thing...Millner would have to earn his way to #2 or #1 CB but would start from the #3 CB as did Haden.
I really cannot express the amazing D we would have w/Ansah as our pick...Now I see him going at #2 Jags in a Mock (NFL Network or ESPN???) - But two bookend OLB 270's Fast n Faster! Strong...man - thing of Beauty!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I agree the potential is there to draft a Ziggy or Jones, but I see it as less likely now. The moves in FA free them from the urgency of drafting a pass rusher and open up some options like taking Milliner @6 if he's there, (doubtful he's there IMO,) taking Geno Smith, (possible, but not highly likely IMO,) if they feel he's worth the pick, or trading down to pick up a second and taking BPA, (most likely IMO).
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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What I was saying...FA eliminates the Urgency...n leaves BPA, if BPA is Ansah or Jones don't matter if we got Groves or Kruger...we still make the pick. I hope we sign Keenen Lewis so that CB Urgency is not there. But if they think Millner is BPA on their board...I don't care if we sign a Lewis in FA...we still get them.
Geno Smith btw...no way can be BPA, if we take him its cause of URGENT NEED 
JMHO...at #6 nothing changes...whoever we got as BPA is our pick (except LTs who only become BPA if you need one)
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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You're right, the FA moves are smart in that they address need and remove urgency as me move into the draft. I hope we get a decent #2 corner in FA, but at this point it seem we pick up a slot guy in Captain Munnerlyn. Looks like we're also shopping for a TE. Safety could become the priority in the draft.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I think that the Kruger signing almost eliminates Ansah from contention for the Browns.
They are far too similar players .... each almost oversized, and not overly quick, fast, nor extremely explosive. I think that we will look at a quick, explosive outside rusher if OLB is a position we address in the draft.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Kruger alone did not eliminate Ansah imho, but combined with the Bryant signing...yeah, I don't see us going Ansah now, but you'll never know...if they trade 1 of Taylor, Rubin or Sheard he's all game again I'm starting to fear that Lombardi wants to make his mark asap on this team and overdrafts for a QB with his first pick...I at least hope he's smart enough to trade down first...Lombardi LOVED Pat White as a QB coming out, yeah I know that makes us all feel comfy with his QB evaluation skills  , so there's a good chance he likes Geno or maybe Barkley....other "surprise" possibilities are Vaccaro, if we don't sign a S, which we do not seem interested at all in FA despite a big need at FS...again, if he's their guy I hope they fetch another top 50 pick along the way because at 6 my stomach would hurt. QB and FS are the two big needs we haven't heard any rumors on in FA so far, so that's been my though process
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Kruger alone did not eliminate Ansah imho, but combined with the Bryant signing...yeah, I don't see us going Ansah now, but you'll never know...if they trade 1 of Taylor, Rubin or Sheard he's all game again
I'm starting to fear that Lombardi wants to make his mark asap on this team and overdrafts for a QB with his first pick...I at least hope he's smart enough to trade down first...Lombardi LOVED Pat White as a QB coming out, yeah I know that makes us all feel comfy with his QB evaluation skills , so there's a good chance he likes Geno or maybe Barkley....other "surprise" possibilities are Vaccaro, if we don't sign a S, which we do not seem interested at all in FA despite a big need at FS...again, if he's their guy I hope they fetch another top 50 pick along the way because at 6 my stomach would hurt. QB and FS are the two big needs we haven't heard any rumors on in FA so far, so that's been my though process
I think if Lombardi goes after a QB that Turner and Chud don't want, they'll speak up.
So honestly, if we went for a QB in the first, then the only way that happens is if Chud and Turner agree. Them I trust. Or at least a whole helluva lot more than Lombardi anyway.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm starting to fear that Lombardi wants to make his mark asap on this team
Difficult to say as we haven't seen nor heard of him since his presser introduction. The FO remains a bit of a mystery to date as far as the dynamic goes, but they have not been sitting on their thumbs...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Lombardi LOVED Pat White as a QB coming out, yeah I know that makes us all feel comfy with his QB evaluation skills
Well, to be fair, Mayock and Kiper were pretty high on him too.. Mayock had him as a second round pick, Kiper had him as the 5th best QB in the draft which usually equates to a 2nd or 3rd round pick... and then there is Bill Parcells, who picked him in the 2nd round to play QB...
So it's not like Lombardi was out on this island by himself defending a guy who couldn't play... Pat White had a lot of people fooled.
You would also have to show me how he LOVED him... from all I could find, he just said he thought he could play QB in this league when he was talking about him working out as a WR/wildcat, etc... So did he love him as a future franchise QB? Or did he love him as a versatile athlete? Did he love him as a 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick?
I'm actually asking because I don't know.. but there are guys in this draft that I LOVE as 3rd or 4th round picks... if they are out of the league in 3 or 4 years, is it fair to just say that I LOVED them?
yebat' Putin
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is it fair to just say that I LOVED them?
if you like then you shoulda put a ring on it
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and not overly quick, fast, nor extremely explosive.
Huh??? Ansah..not quick, fast or explosive??? sorry don't agree nor understand that analysis.
Kruger doesn't end the Ansah pick. Although I do think they think more highly of Sheard than I would think. I would love to have two bookends like that. Ansah n Kruger. Whatever Kruger is...Ansah is bigger faster n more explosive. No need to define a OLB as strong or weak side. Both cold take on the TE/chip block. Again we would be doing the dictating not the O. If we were targeting Ansah or Jones...that hasn't changed. Cause we weren't targeting a player for that Left side...it would be for the Right side OLB against the Left Tackle. That hasn't changed...unless we never were targeting one cause we are in love of Sheard.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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I've been hearing lots of folks on here (and other places) say that Sheard should be traded.. I guess I don't get it. He's been pretty good for us. Young, tough as nails, fast.. not sure he can cover, but I'd sure as hell like to see before throwing the baby out with the bath water.
ON the other hand, we have two guys with similar skills at NT.. Rubin and Taylor.. If anything, maybe one of them could be traded. but even that's hard to do given how we'll they play.
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yeah I hear ya on Sheard...of course I didn't think he had the athleticism for the switch especially switching to the faster side but he is only 250??? so the Strong side a Roth type of guy would be nice. aka Kruger. Until I saw Chud at the Kruger presser n he just stated One sentence about Sheard...I try to read people n for the first time I was like - WOW THESE GUYS REALLY BELIEVE SHEARD IS A STUD! That was my impression. Now is that Draft Smoke n Mirrors...or maybe we really think he will be good there??? great??? Until today my personal thoughts were that Sheard just wasn't versatile enough for the switch. Horton n his OLB coach - know what they want. So if Sheard is it and they love him. Who knows now. Geno? Millner? Actually makes the pick for us much much worse if we don't go OLB??? Cause its pretty much Millner, Unless we really love Geno???
If we pick Ansah or Jones...that makes Sheard expendable...n as the Pass rushers go...looks pretty good for a 4-3 team wanting a DE in the mid-late first n they got a choice of SO n SO left or Sheard...that is where a trade would be good.
JMHO
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Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Quote:
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Kruger alone did not eliminate Ansah imho, but combined with the Bryant signing...yeah, I don't see us going Ansah now, but you'll never know...if they trade 1 of Taylor, Rubin or Sheard he's all game again
I'm starting to fear that Lombardi wants to make his mark asap on this team and overdrafts for a QB with his first pick...I at least hope he's smart enough to trade down first...Lombardi LOVED Pat White as a QB coming out, yeah I know that makes us all feel comfy with his QB evaluation skills , so there's a good chance he likes Geno or maybe Barkley....other "surprise" possibilities are Vaccaro, if we don't sign a S, which we do not seem interested at all in FA despite a big need at FS...again, if he's their guy I hope they fetch another top 50 pick along the way because at 6 my stomach would hurt. QB and FS are the two big needs we haven't heard any rumors on in FA so far, so that's been my though process
I think if Lombardi goes after a QB that Turner and Chud don't want, they'll speak up.
So honestly, if we went for a QB in the first, then the only way that happens is if Chud and Turner agree. Them I trust. Or at least a whole helluva lot more than Lombardi anyway.
Banner has said all along there would be a consensus. I believed him when he said it. It makes sense to me. I don't know how many actual voices have real input in to who we select, but it sounds like it isn't just one guy.
You have Banner, Lombardi, Chud and probably your top scout for sure. You would probably be dumb to not give Turner and Horton some input...at least a can you use them or not type input. And of course Haslam has a voice to some degree.
If they can't come to agreement of say maybe 80%, then I believe Banner when he said they probably wouldn't do it.
This may not apply for later round picks, but would guess early round picks would need a pretty solid majority.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I agree Willie. It gives us the possible luxery of a Geno Smith or EJ Manual or another skilled player.
Even a trade back would become a viable option! Oline stud maybe to shore up that right side?
Honestly, going for any QB in this draft at 6 is a reach.. I don't see that happening at all.
In fact, I don't see a top 10 QB in this draft.
Milliner maybe would be the best for us at 6 or a trade down and get a TE or Safety maybe. Drafting always makes me crazy,,LOL
Completely agree. While I would LOVE a franchise QB at 6 there just isn't one jumping out at me. Of course I've been wrong about that in the past. I was sure Newton would bust. How wrong I was.... so if Chud sees one and takes him I won't carp about it.
That said I think you're right about Dee Milliner being a good choice. As it stands now Skrine is our starting corner opposite Haden. Talk about scary.
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yeah I hear ya on Sheard...of course I didn't think he had the athleticism for the switch especially switching to the faster side but he is only 250??? so the Strong side a Roth type of guy would be nice. aka Kruger. Until I saw Chud at the Kruger presser n he just stated One sentence about Sheard...I try to read people n for the first time I was like - WOW THESE GUYS REALLY BELIEVE SHEARD IS A STUD! That was my impression. Now is that Draft Smoke n Mirrors...or maybe we really think he will be good there??? great??? Until today my personal thoughts were that Sheard just wasn't versatile enough for the switch. Horton n his OLB coach - know what they want. So if Sheard is it and they love him. Who knows now. Geno? Millner? Actually makes the pick for us much much worse if we don't go OLB??? Cause its pretty much Millner, Unless we really love Geno???
If we pick Ansah or Jones...that makes Sheard expendable...n as the Pass rushers go...looks pretty good for a 4-3 team wanting a DE in the mid-late first n they got a choice of SO n SO left or Sheard...that is where a trade would be good.
JMHO
I'm hoping for a Sheard trade. I just can't see him covering a TE or RB in pass coverage. Like you say, he's just not versatile enough to play it. But we shall see....
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Sheard will very rarely be asked to cover man-to-man.
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I really liked Jordan as soon as mock drafts came around..for us Browns fan...I'd say start of November  I can't say I saw a whole ton of him only several games but I watched some videos and the main negative I see is I see no explosion with him..as a physical freak...I thought I'd be more amazed...but he doesn't have much wow to him...I know he's relatively raw...and his instincts are iffy as I often see him still engaged as a play runs right pass him...he has really good speed and seems to use those long arms to track the ball carrier down...def has huge potential... Moore was my favorite...put up huge numbers...seems strong against hand slaps...could use more moves...hustled hard...and we all know he had a pretty bad combine...then again the combine is pretty overrated...as when do these guys have to run on a track in a straight line with no gear on during a Sunday? I know his stock dropped...I thought he looked solid on runs plays Now I will admit I never watched Ansah play...last time I watched BYU play I think they had Watkins or Pinkston at WR...I saw his name pop up everywhere watched game tap and highlights of him...and this guy pops out..plays aggressive in his pursuit flashes a ton of pop and explosion despite being very raw...imo he plays better than Dion Jordan... Really liked Okafor if we kept the 4-3...mainly because in addition of his pass rush skills he was touted for his top notch run defending skills with a good motor to boot...active hands and a smart player...I see some places having him as a 3-4 LB...not sure on that...just some things I've noticed
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and not overly quick, fast, nor extremely explosive.
Huh??? Ansah..not quick, fast or explosive??? sorry don't agree nor understand that analysis.
Kruger doesn't end the Ansah pick. Although I do think they think more highly of Sheard than I would think. I would love to have two bookends like that. Ansah n Kruger. Whatever Kruger is...Ansah is bigger faster n more explosive. No need to define a OLB as strong or weak side. Both cold take on the TE/chip block. Again we would be doing the dictating not the O. If we were targeting Ansah or Jones...that hasn't changed. Cause we weren't targeting a player for that Left side...it would be for the Right side OLB against the Left Tackle. That hasn't changed...unless we never were targeting one cause we are in love of Sheard.
JMHO
We are sitting pretty at 6 right now. We really can't lose on this.
Having let these FA CB's go elsewhere for a mere 5M or so is telling me alot.
We'll sign a CB in FA. My guess is soon we will here a name such as Talib, Cason or Captain.
I also see us making a serious run on FS Kerry Rhodes from Horton's Zona D.
I'm betting we're looking at moving down into the 10-12 range and feasting our eyes on a Xavier Rhodes.
Even if we stay at 6 and land a Jarvis Jones, we just can't lose on this strategy.
I'm loving how Îe're going about this.
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Quote:
We'll sign a CB in FA.
I also see us making a serious run on FS Kerry Rhodes from Horton's Zona D.
I'm betting we're looking at moving down into the 10-12 range and feasting our eyes on a Xavier Rhodes.
I don't know how you got my notes but that is exactly what I would be looking to do if I was the Browns GM
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Draft Stuff 2013
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