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Dude wait till they do something before U vent...k?
What they do now is for the future..so look at Rubin's contract in ...2014.. 9 mill .. is what he's due, I think it is..thats when they will probably go down that road..either restructure or a trade, but my guess would be a rookie DT would not start but be in a rotation.
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I agree. I don't think it would be a dumb move to trade a lineman, draft a lineman and pick up a 2nd rounder, especially if the 2nd rounder is near the top of the round. A lot of good corners and safeties are going to be sitting there.
It might seem like a lateral move, but as you point out, you have to be thinking past tomorrow.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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He'll be a 8.175mil cap hit in 2014 (7.575mil in 2013)....even if you think that's 1-2mil too rich for him (and that's debatable imho...Bryant got that kind of money in FA from us and he wasn't even a starter for the Raiders). Rube's 26yo, has been pretty durable over the years and is in his prime @Peen Quote:
It might seem like a lateral move, but as you point out, you have to be thinking past tomorrow.
Really? Thinking about tomorrow with ONE player over 30 on the roster and one of the youngest (for sure THE youngest now) roster already in the entire NFL? Newsflash: We've done EXACTLY that the past 3 offseason to rebuild and rejuvnate the roster and that was the right thing to do AT THE TIME...the point in doing this is to actually REAP the crop when they have or are about to flourish (Rubin, Taylor, Sheard etc)...it's beyond stupid imho to cut off the crop without eating it and begin seeding again...and that'd be what we'd do here
YOU PLAY...TO WIN...THE GAME
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i'm with DJ on this one. if Rubin was a few years older, then I would have no problem flipping him for a 2nd, replacing him with a younger DT at the top of the 1st and moving forward.
but, Attaboy is one of our better players on defense, in his prime, not a terrible cap-hit (and we have a ton of room anyway because of the hole at QB), and we have enough holes to fill rather than worrying about creating a new one
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Here's all any of us need to think..my thing is defense and CB's.
If the Browns draft a linemen high with that first pick, look at the type of linemen he is.
Loutuelei is looked at as a lesser Ngata, he's in high regard..Floyd is also in the equation..and they have a interest in Richardson from Mizzu.
These are attacking type DT's who can penetrate and apply pressure.
Now thats what I know, what I feel is ,they will do something next year with Rubin ,just what I do not know but I do feel they like the Dlinemen in this draft.
Oh and I can tell U several guards they like(which should make Peen happy).
Jonathan Cooper from NC and Larry Worford -Kentucky. And yes they like Warmack..but not @ 6.
Stop interpeting this as they're gonna trade Rubin THIS year..(if they do, it will be a expensive trade)..but I'm saying don't be shocked if they nab one of the Dlinemen first.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/13 11:15 AM.
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It does make me happy. Worford might be had at the top of the 2nd....the other are gone 1st round.
I am with you, this draft needs to be about D and a corner. I hope Millner is there at #6. If not I hope we can drop down a few slots....by few, I mean a few, and draft Rhodes. He isn't going to last that long, so if I had to reach for him, I would reach. The reach would be mitigated by getting something in return for dropping back.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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currently, I think we need an upgrade at the following starting spots:
QB - though we'll likely wait a year
TE
OG
CB2
FS
ILB
There are enough openings that we should be able to take BPA at our slot or trade down to a better slot to get someone who fills need while also getting BPA.
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The only thing that I'm not sure about is they are determined to get a second rounder. At the expense of what is what no one knows..
They like the CB's and I saw that Lombardi is partial to Bama talent..so figure that in.
If they can trade down and get a second , they can grab one of the other CB's there or a OG.
This is gonna get interesting, maybe more so than in recent years. [color]
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I look at our DL right now and see a real solid foundation on which to build this new 3-4 defense.
Some 3-4 teams use their DL to tie up the opposing OL, and free up the LB to make plays. Horton uses his DL as a wave of attack. We actually have players who fit that type of scheme, and just as importantly, we have depth as well. Why would we want to screw that up?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just for the sake of the mood I'm in (and I see people reacting about something that hasn't even happened yet or that wasn't even speculated on),I'm gonna ask U sumptin..if U can get a player who's better than the one U have in a position U favor ,would U bypass him or create a strength?
Banner said weeks ago that they had not planned on trading anyone at this time.
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.if U can get a player who's better than the one U have in a position U favor ,would U bypass him or create a strength?
but, that is not the only thing suggested. it was also suggested that you utilize one of your biggest assets to do it (the #6 pick in the draft), which means not improving a different position potentially even more (like CB).
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Who suggested it?
DJ brought that up ,implying that is the senero.
If U say me, read what I said again..I said if they do anything with Rubin it will be next year when he's due 9 mill.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/13 01:17 PM.
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Quote:
Who suggested it?
DJ brought that up ,implying that is the senero.
If U say me, read what I said again..I said if they do anything with Rubin it will be next year when he's due 9 mill.
you suggested picking Star or Shariff at #6 and trading Rubin next year thus ignoring potential needs at CB, ILB, FS, QB, TE, and OG in the first 2 rounds of this draft.
IMO, we need to either trade down and cover multiple spots of those needs or take Milliner at #6. We need another OLB, so I could at least understand if we took one of those guys there as well.
our DL is stacked. quite possibly the best 3-4 DL in the NFL right now. adding Star or Shariff to it is a luxury we cannot afford to do with the roster we employ.
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you suggested picking Star or Shariff at #6 and trading Rubin next year thus ignoring potential needs at CB, ILB, FS, QB, TE, and OG in the first 2 rounds of this draft.
IMO, we need to either trade down and cover multiple spots of those needs or take Milliner at #6. We need another OLB, so I could at least understand if we took one of those guys there as well.
our DL is stacked. quite possibly the best 3-4 DL in the NFL right now. adding Star or Shariff to it is a luxury we cannot afford to do with the roster we employ.
U need to read my post again. I did not suggest they trade Rubin.
I said "Star L, and Floyd are in the mix @ 6..Banner/Lombardi want to build the trenches..they want pressure up front."
I said IF they do anything with Rubin it would be next year..so how's it suggesting that I'm using Rubin to get another pick?
Something I'm not afraid to say is this, if they draft a DT that is better than Rubin in a year or two or even immediately ,then you do that. I love my corners but I want the trenches solid and impenetrable .
Is the first pick the only one they got to use on other needs?
Really?
C'on ..they could go any number of positions with the first one,doesn't have to be CB.
Could be a TE.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/13 01:59 PM.
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if they pick a TE at #6, then I will be upset. that would be in the trade down scenario only IMO.
the only "need" positions that can also be BPA at #6 would be CB or OLB (again, IMO). if they trade down, then it opens up more possibilities.
if they draft a DT #6, then that's a bad way to build the team.
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Quote:
if they pick a TE at #6, then I will be upset. that would be in the trade down scenario only IMO.
the only "need" positions that can also be BPA at #6 would be CB or OLB (again, IMO). if they trade down, then it opens up more possibilities.
if they draft a DT #6, then that's a bad way to build the team.
No it's not. A lot of GM's build in>out. If they take a Dlinemen,they have graded whomever as the BPA on their board.
Look at what they did in FA..They targeted OLB and then DE..now if they go after a interior DL ,they are doing this for the future ,not today. And that will signal someone is gone next year.
If they trade down it opens up a lot of things ,and they can go any number of directions.
I'm not locked in on Milliner as some may be.
Rhoads/Trufant/Banks/Amerson will be there for the taking..Trufant may have the best ball cover skills of any of them.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/13 02:07 PM.
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We've already done the "in." Time for the "out."
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We've already done the "in." Time for the "out."
U think if Phil Savage had to do it over again ,he would say that?
He was asked about that infamous 2006 draft and he admitted he was young,inexperienced and trusted his coach who wanted a pass rusher even though they had supposedly fixed the Dline. 
U and Logo think I don't understand the holes in the secondary?
I do and the Browns do, they know exactly what they don't have. And if you listened to things they have said about being disappointed with their defense in crucial situations especially on 3rd down run D, you would sense they understand things we see.
They've let a lot of dead bodies go.Bodies that didn't do much..not talking about Cribbs/Dawson.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/13 02:21 PM.
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no doubt you need to build in -> out. but, again, we have possibly the best 3-4 DL in the NFL.
if we draft Star/Shariff, then would they even start? if not, then we have a top10 pick who doesn't start. if yes, then we are benching either Phil Taylor, Rubin, or newly-signed Bryant. that is the waste. we cannot afford to bench quality assets.
we have so many positions of need for starters right now that we can get BPA (either sitting tight or trading down depending on how things fall draft-day) that even the mention of drafting a DT with #6 overall (and no 2nd round pick) is absolutely ludicrous.
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And if you listened to things they have said about being disappointed with their defense in crucial situations especially on 3rd down run D, you would sense they understand things we see.
If you have a link to a presser for this, I'd like to hear it. Sounds interesting.
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no doubt you need to build in -> out. but, again, we have possibly the best 3-4 DL in the NFL. We have yet to see these guys line up and play. I will wait till that happens and see what they do. if we draft Star/Shariff, then would they even start? if not, then we have a top10 pick who doesn't start. For practical purposes they should start but not all top 10 picks start immediately.  the mention of drafting a DT with #6 overall (and no 2nd round pick) is absolutely ludicrous. Only to some. I'm not one who thinks that. Clevesteve, if you google that presser that Banner had at the combine, he addresses a lot of things about the defense. http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...banner-1.375742
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/13 02:55 PM.
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Quote:
IMO, we need to either trade down and cover multiple spots of those needs or take Milliner at #6.
Even if Milliner's there at 6 we should still move down.
We are looking at upwards of EIGHT CB's that are somewhere near a Milliner/Rhodes. DON'T give up a trade down just because Milliner's there at 6. He's not even close to STUD. You guys are letting NEED interject with SMART.
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These are the things he said... I don't really see anything where I think he wants to change any DL past cutting Rucker, adding Bryant: Quote:
How do you assess your offensive line and pass rush?: “I think our offensive line is good and it could get better. I think as we switch to the 3-4 and as I said before even if we stayed in the 4-3, the defensive front [seven] needs some additions to be able to compete with the best in the league.”
Going back to you saying we still need players on the defensive front to compete with the best in the league, do you mean the front seven or the defensive line?: “Front seven.”
Quote:
Why change the defense?: “I think we felt like the defense wasn't good enough to be very direct about it. If you went into some of the more sophisticated breakdowns of the defense this year, and by that I mean some of these systems that take out certain plays and that truly measure your success at crucial times in crucial situations, and so on and so forth, we were ranked 20 or lower in most of those categories. So, I think that, combined with the belief that we wanted to have a more aggressive, attacking defense, because we want to bring in more aggressive-minded players, we want to be risk-takers, we want to be attacking, we want the other team to be on the defensive. It doesn't mean it was wrong, but that wasn't the scheme we were running, so this felt like it fit more the type of players we want to bring in and the mindset we want to create. The way we want our opponents to perceive us. We want them to be worried about where we're kind of coming from and what's going to happen, what are we going to do next.”
Here's what Ray Horton had to say about Rubin and his prospects in horton's new scheme:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...51-e4a255e15e72
Quote:
“I think he’s going to be fantastic because when I looked at the team, he was one of those guys I saw running all up and down the field,” Horton said of Rubin. “He’s a big, strong, powerful man that is going to make this defense better. When you look at him, and Phil (Taylor), you’ve got Desmond (Bryant), then you’ve got Billy Winn, Paul (Kruger) and Jabaal (Sheard), those are some big names and some big men that can run. What I now see is we’ve got a fantastic front seven that it doesn’t matter who we have in the game. (We’re) blessed to have big men that can run and that look like they love to play the game.”
I really don't think Rubin is going anywhere.
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now if they go after a interior DL ,they are doing this for the future ,not today. And that will signal someone is gone next year.
I'd bet someone is gone THIS year if we do a DL at 6. Or even in a move down.
Of course it's for the future. Really? These guys are rookies. That's pretty obvious. And I vehemently agree about Rubin's cap hit in 2014. It's BIG. And he's nowhere near the STUD some think he is. He will restructure or he's history. And if we take a DL'men at 6 or even in a move down, he's history sooner than later.
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Reading that middle quote, I kept getting the mental imagery that in Banner we've gotten a resurrected Al Davis.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Nothing in those comments suggests that they couldn't take another DL.
In fact they can if they have them ranked as high as anyone else their board. And thats what we don't know, how their board is set up.
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We've already done the "in." Time for the "out."
Really? You're satisfied with guys like DQ and Johnson as ILB's in a 3-4 D? BOTH can be upgraded. Why you think we after Ellerbe?
ILB is every bit a need that Corner is right now. And that dictates that if we have an opportunity to land another STUD (Bryant) on this DL. You go for it. Which is exactly what "Attack" is talking about.
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Quote:
Quote:
We've already done the "in." Time for the "out."
Really? You're satisfied with guys like DQ and Johnson as ILB's in a 3-4 D? BOTH can be upgraded. Why you think we after Ellerbe?
ILB is every bit a need that Corner is right now. And that dictates that if we have an opportunity to land another STUD (Bryant) on this DL. You go for it. Which is exactly what "Attack" is talking about.
i'm confused. because we have a need at ILB, it means we could draft a DL?
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CB is a dire need. At the very least, what we have at ILB and on the DL is quite serviceable.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
We've already done the "in." Time for the "out."
Really? You're satisfied with guys like DQ and Johnson as ILB's in a 3-4 D? BOTH can be upgraded. Why you think we after Ellerbe?
ILB is every bit a need that Corner is right now. And that dictates that if we have an opportunity to land another STUD (Bryant) on this DL. You go for it. Which is exactly what "Attack" is talking about.
he's talking about dumping one of our DL for a pick and drafting Star or Floyd with our first. That's what I was talking about. Of course we need an ILB.
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Even if Milliner's there at 6 we should still move down.
We are looking at upwards of EIGHT CB's that are somewhere near a Milliner/Rhodes. DON'T give up a trade down just because Milliner's there at 6. He's not even close to STUD. You guys are letting NEED interject with SMART.
Bingo. While Milliner is very good, what is the difference between him and the fourth or fifth ranked corner? It seems as though Rhodes, Banks, Trufant, and Taylor can all be as good as Milliner.
Also, if we get the Cardinals involved in the bidding we can trade down one spot and still get Milliner.
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Good..every good..posters .debating the draft....was starting to look dull a bit in here..need some draft fire.
Now I will repeat this one last time..I never said the Browns were trading Rubin to get another player or pick.
But they do not have to take Milliner with their first pick unless in a tradedown he slides..
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currently, I think we need an upgrade at the following starting spots:
QB - though we'll likely wait a year
TE
OG
CB2
FS
ILB
I was saying this before we even started Free Agency. (don't forget a FB)
Good thing we were active this year lol We just didn't fill any of our "needs"
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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we filled OLB w/ 2 guys and it was our biggest need (along with CB2)
filling DE wasn't a pressing need, but if Horton felt getting pressure there alleviated it elsewhere, then I understand
still, yeah, i'd like to see them address those spots too (especially CB2)
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Quote:
IMO, we need to either trade down and cover multiple spots of those needs or take Milliner at #6.
Even if Milliner's there at 6 we should still move down.
We are looking at upwards of EIGHT CB's that are somewhere near a Milliner/Rhodes. DON'T give up a trade down just because Milliner's there at 6. He's not even close to STUD. You guys are letting NEED interject with SMART.
The difference between drafting Milliner if he's there or trading down (if possible) is whether or not this team thinks it has a chance of making the POs this year IMO. If they think they're a year away, it makes sense to draft a CB later. If they think they can win now, they should draft Milliner because no CB in this class will be play anywhere near his level in their rookie year. There are no Janoris Jenkins-type players in this draft (blue chip, polished guys with character issues that go in the second round). History says the odds are stacked against the Browns in finding a CB who can even play passably in his rookie year outside of Milliner.
And make no mistake, Milliner is by far the closest thing to a sure bet in this year's CB class. Every other guy has a much higher potential to bust in the long-term.
EDIT: And by no means am I claiming that Milliner is going to play all that well in his rookie year. He'll probably struggle at times just like Claiborne and Peterson did in their rookie years. But he's probably not going to be a complete liability, either — unlike Rhodes and company. It's well-documented that CB is by far one of the hardest positions to make the transition from college to the pros. Guys drafted outside of the early first round usually have a heck of a time.
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Honey Badger....
you forgot.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Honey Badger....
you forgot.
He's an excellent nickel at best...not what this team's biggest need is. Too small, too slow — all he has is fantastic instincts and ball skills. I wouldn't be opposed to drafting him in the third or fourth round, but he's not the answer at CB2.
And he's nowhere near Janoris Jenkins — who was a top ten talent by all means.
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