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Ditto,...i.e. Jeff Garcia. At least we got some usefulness out of Don Strock,...I'd just as soon go ahead and pull BQ in, as go after a has been.
Just in case you haven't been paying attention, Garcia was his same Pro-Bowl self last year despite being two years older than when we acquired him.
WE screwed that thing up, not Garcia. 
It appears that my pipe dream of acquiring Green is alive.
Maybe Savage reads my posts afterall 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Hmmm...didnt we just get a slew of articles that Cleveland will not add a FA QB, or was that specifically talking to the David Carr pimps?....
MAV, MAV ...MAV ...U really believe everything you read? TSK....shame on you  Well thats what you said to me ...wasn't it? 
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If Quinn or Russell is going to be the first pick, it would make sense to bring in someone like Green so the rook could sit a year..ala Carson Palmer. If they don't bring in a vet & still pick Quinn or Russell, are Frye, Dorsey or Anderson REALLY the guys that we'd want tutoring the rook? The phrase "blind leading the blind" comes to mind in that scenario... 
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Green and Dilfer... lol...
Green is a good QB. He will need an OL.
Even Charlie needs an OL.
Until the Browns get an OL, every available or potentially available QB will be pawed over by the fans looking for the savior.
Fix the OL.
Er........You'll forgive me Charger for saying this, but I keep seeing this sentiment over and over again. While it's 100% true, in case anyone hasn't noticed it, we just picked up a pro-bowl level guard, resigned a decent center, and signed another guard who has been a good starter until he got hurt. IF he's back to normal, he's a starting-caliber guard in this league.
We've fixed the worst parts of this O-line, and in a timing-based passing game that I personally believe Chud will install, the ball gets out of the hands of a QB like Green before an edge rusher can beat Necktie Shaffer 
We've addressed the O-line, and as it currently stands, though there are some serious "if's" there, this line is pretty decent. I'd be comfortable putting any veteran QB back there right now.
To me, it's time to address the QB position. To be blunt, the combination of Frye and Anderson is one of THE worst combinations in the entire league. Lucky for us that the Dolphins have nobody behind a busted up Culpepper and the Raiders have only Andrew Walter or we would be the worst out there. We've addressed the line to some degree allready. Now we need to turn our eyes to the most important player on the field.
As my good friend Dawgstyle put it, give us Thomas at 3 and Green under center and our wins go right through the roof. (at least I hope that's what he said *L*).
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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i would go crazy if we got William Green back... the guy had talent 4real...
these are the same people who wanna bring in a 40 year old QB and kick Charlie to the curb.....But Trent will do ok behind a new line....How about giving Charlie a chance to prove himself behind a new line..... 
actually.. i want Frye to stay... I think I said that.. and there are just certain people that the Browns had on the franchise that i liked.. William Green was one of them, and another was Antonio Bryant... If Bryant didn't have the off the field issues, i would want him back, cuz no one has signed him either I don't think...
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As my good friend Dawgstyle put it, give us Thomas at 3 and Green under center and our wins go right through the roof. (at least I hope that's what he said *L*).
In a nutshell it was... Thanks for being one of the few that noticed that...
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To me, it's time to address the QB position. To be blunt, the combination of Frye and Anderson is one of THE worst combinations in the entire league.
AGREE 100% 
Specty isn't going to like what I am about to say but I think next year is the year we get Jamal Lewis's backup via the draft barring a Michael Pittman or Michael Bush falling to us in the 3rd this year...
A case of Pro V 1's says that Trent will have a better year than Frye or DA... But yet we will see these SAME Frye Gropers searching for more excuses when he comes up short...
Sad part about the whole Frye debate is that we ALL want him to succeed, its just that some of us on here can accept what he is/isn't and realize that good o-line or not, he is not far from a finished product...I would LOVE nothing more than to eat my words of doubt about the kid but I just don't see that happening...
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Sad part about the whole Frye debate is that we ALL want him to succeed, its just that some of us on here can accept what he is/isn't and realize that good o-line or not, he is not far from a finished product.
There in lies the difference between your thinking and mine DS44,, You think Fryes close to a finished product (peen thinks he IS a finished product) and I don't..
I think he has greater upside left in him..
One of us is right,,, and you know it's gonna be me don't you?
Your chain has been successfully pulled!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Explain GREATER UPSIDE.
His hands won't get bigger, his arm strength won't increase..
Will his accuracy ?
It could on some timing routes but the ones that require a laser and split second throws will not.
Can he learn not to piviot into a sack?
What about looking off recievers?
Don't you want a QB who already possesses all those qualities?
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Explain GREATER UPSIDE.
His hands won't get bigger, his arm strength won't increase..
Will his accuracy ?
It could on some timing routes but the ones that require a laser and split second throws will not.
Can he learn not to piviot into a sack?
What about looking off recievers?
Don't you want a QB who already possesses all those qualities?
Good post and I amazed at the people that want to wait to see if he can ever be that guy rather than signing someone that already is and has proven it season after season...
Sorry for cutting in but your logic is exactly the facts that people are chosing to tune out in here...
Trent is a CLEAR upgrade but some fans on here prefer the status quo? I just cannot fathom that...
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http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/16990038.htm Browns may go for Green
Cleveland GM asks about QB’s availability as NFL meetings close.
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star
Green
PHOENIX | The Cleveland Browns are the latest entrants into the Trent Green sweepstakes.
Chiefs president/general manager Carl Peterson said he was approached Wednesday at the conclusion of the NFL meetings by his Browns counterpart, Phil Savage.
“We agreed to talk some more later this week or the first of next week,†Peterson said. “He said he wants to talk some more with his head coach and his offensive coordinator. But he did ask whether this thing was over with. I said, ‘No, not at all.’
“Cleveland would make sense to me because Trent played very well against them last year.â€
The Chiefs also have talked with the Dolphins and Lions about a trade for Green, the Chiefs’ starting quarterback the past six seasons. Green missed the first half of last season because of a severe concussion and played poorly after his return.
The Chiefs have Damon Huard and Brodie Croyle competing to be their starting quarterback. The Chiefs have said Green would be welcome to return and compete for the job as well if he isn’t traded, but Green would likely balk at that notion.
The Browns have no established, veteran quarterback. They used two young prospects, Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson, at quarterback last season.
Green had his best game of the season when the Chiefs played in Cleveland in early December. He had season highs in completions (24), completion percentage (75), yards (297) and touchdowns (four) but still couldn’t prevent the Chiefs from losing 31-28 in overtime.
Peterson huddled with Lions general manager Matt Millen at the meetings in Arizona but never talked with Miami’s Randy Mueller.
Green has told the Chiefs that Miami is his preference. The Chiefs and Dolphins have exchanged trade offers but were far apart: The Chiefs asked for a second-round pick, and the Dolphins countered with a seventh-round choice.
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Looks like this "rumor" is gaining some momentum... Good read BTW...
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ANother thing... I think a 7th rd offer is a slap in the face to KC... IMHO, a 2nd rounder is much too high though... IF Phil could get him for a 4th or better, I would be all over it!
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didn't we give a 4th for dilfer when he was a backup?
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I think so and if I am not mistaken, Droughns cost us a 4th as well...
Not saying you were comparing the two but in my eyes, Dilfer couldn't carry Green's jock...
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i was just stating what a backup cost us before. being a starter, green may cost a tad more.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Quote:
Explain GREATER UPSIDE
I mean greater than he has demonstrated thus far... (for whatever reason)
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His hands won't get bigger, his arm strength won't increase..
Will his accuracy ?
Geez,,, there goes that Small hands thing again,, His hands are fine. His arm strength is fine and his accuracy and ability to look off receivers should improve with time and experience..(hopefully)
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Can he learn not to piviot into a sack?
will the line learn to protect better?
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Don't you want a QB who already possesses all those qualities?
Yes of course I do,,, but I also want one that isn't on the downside of his career.. I also don't want one that is coming back from a serious head trauma and who hasn't played well since before the concussion.
I might feel different if we were close to being good enough to make the playoffs or to contend, but we are so far from that at this point,, I just think we have time and should use that time to find out if Frye or Anderson can develop,,
It cracks me up that some on here think that getting a new QB is the magic bullett.. Sure it can happen.. Look at New Orleans last season... But then for the opposite, look at the Raiders when they got Hostetler or Brooks..
How well has Brunell done for the Redskins? What did Culpepper do for the Dolphins and after him, how did Harrington do with them? Did Kitna coming to Detroit increase the win total?
You can site examples of when it worked, but I promise you, there are more examples of it NOT working out well...
But what the heck, you guys are right, I'm wrong.. Let's toss out the baby with the bath water AGAIN. Let's find a way to place all the blame on one person AGAIN. Let's get Green in here and hope our line is better than the one he had in KC last season..
Why the heck not, it's worked so well for us in the past!
You know what the definition of insane is,,, that's when you do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result!
I sure hope you guys are right about this! Otherwise, we will be having the same converstion next year at this time with only the names changed.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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his arm strength won't increase..
Out of all of the things you listed, I think this one area he can improve. Pennington and Brees used to have rag arms too and the media raved about their improvement last year. I don't know if it was fluff, but if they can do it, so can Charlie.
That being said, he can work on those things as our backup to Trent Green. 
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Knox..I thought it was a fifth?
DawgStyle44
We gave up no pick for Droughns..but Ekuben and Myers...
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Note the writers use of "..." and the brevity of their comments. Certainly a serious statement would be conveyed in a more serious manner no?
May I humbly suggest you consider caffeine as a substitute for early morning wit.
Thanks for the suggestion.
The poster very frequently uses that style (brevity and ellipsis) and rarely, if ever, is sarcastic. The poster also was a huge supporter of William Green up to, and after, his release. In his opinion, Green was a stud, and a rare talent.
Despite your best intentions, and the time obviously well spent in English class, I am not convinced the poster didn't mean what he said.
But, thanks for the suggestion.
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could be wrong, but i see this playing out just like the Clements thing did...
we'll probably be involved in the bidding, and possibly willing to give more than Green's worth (a 4th, say), but we'll be trumped in the end by the Dolphins, who'll give a 2nd or 3rd...
Browns fans are born with it...
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Try a FIFTH....
If we don't see some improvement this season, I'm sure I'll be drinking PLENTY of them!  
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This is going to be fun..better than that stupid Cavs game last nite.. Geez,,, there goes that Small hands thing again,, His hands are fine. His arm strength is fine and his accuracy and ability to look off receivers should improve with time and experience..(hopefully)
Now lets dissect this..his hands are fine..yeah right..they are small they make him have to get more of his body under the throw.. he fumbles a lot due to that small hand size..that and his arm strength are what his passes float and wobble..he doesn't have a true zip /snap of the wrist release.. Ever see a DB jump his pass and have enough time to break it up? Ever see him misfire on intermediate throws? His deep passes are often thrown HIGHER to get more distance ..but they are often wobbly..
will the line learn to protect better?
Once more thats the excuse a lot want to give..when he feels pressure ..WHEN he does he often reverse pivots , right into a defender..he does not always sense the pass rush and other times does not step up into the throw.. It cracks me up that some on here think that getting a new QB is the magic bullett. It cracks me up people who back him want to say that..no one said thats the magic bullet..but for the one person who is the general of the offense , I want the best talent back there, along with the best line , best RB etc.. How well has Brunell done for the Redskins? What did Culpepper do for the Dolphins and after him, how did Harrington do with them? Did Kitna coming to Detroit increase the win total?
Don't believe I said green was the answer..but what I do sense IS SO SIMPLE EVEN A CAVEMAN could get it..  If the Browns are truely going after a VET..then Frye/DA have heat on them and Phil is looking to draft a QB.. And remember we're talking about Charlie Frye..not Manning, Brees or Brady..but Charlie Frye..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 03/29/07 01:09 PM.
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If this report is correct.....it is proof Charlie is done as our starter in Cleveland.
You don't bring in a 37 year old QB to mentor a 3 year guy with 20+ starts under his belt for a year or two, then turn it back to chuck who would be 28-29 yrs old in the last year of his contract..
The Browns are intent on a new starter next fall.
Chuck's done as our starter.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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We agreed to talk some more later this week or the first of next week,†Peterson said. “He said he wants to talk some more with his head coach and his offensive coordinator. But he did ask whether this thing was over with. I said, ‘No, not at all.’
I tend to believe this..now the issue is Rac..because Rac likes Frye..thats known..but does Chud?
The fact that Phil approached Peterson tells me all I need to know...
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If Frye was done why bring in a QB at all? Draft one of the 2 and put him in with Frye as the backup. All this tea leaf reading is making me thirsty.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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No you did not just not say that..
You NEVER EVER bring in a rookie QB and have no one to tutor him..
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Bottom line, what's the one position we really have not fixed since our expansion? The line.
Fix it. Let it gel. Then worry about the QB.
Hey fix the line boy, stop and compare the line of today to the one we had 2 years ago and then compare the QB of 2 years ago. Get the hint!
Hey don't learn from the past boy, what does Trent Dilfer and that line have anything to do with what I'm talking about? Please elaborate.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Vince Young?
What would they really need to be tutored in. Russell and Quinn are at the top of their game. Other than leading by example in things like work ethic and film study,,,, what is a vet who wants to be a starter really going to teach one of the top 2 guys? Obviously they know their stuff and are not projects.
From everything we hear Frye is a workaholic,,, and would be a great example of work ethics.
IMO there are only 2 reasons to bring in a vet...
1. Team isnt behind Frye and wants to switch
2. Team thinks Frye is still workable and wants to push him to beat out the vet.
If we just need someone to hold the fort while a rook develops why not just let Frye take the hits for another year. Plus whos to say any of the available vets would even be interested in that type of no win situation.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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WOW... you and Daman have really taken a tunnel vision approach to my opinion... Last time I checked, Trent Green isn't projected to cost us our #3 pick... You both furthermore failed to read my original post regarding who I would like to see us draft...
How is signing a QB from another team getting confused with us ignoring the O-Line in the draft? DID I SPECIFICALLY WRITE THAT SOMEWHERE???
Thought so... 
Wow, people sure like to beat their chests on a message board...such a massive display of manhood. RARRRHHH!!!!
Anyhow, I may have wrongly been under the presumption that you wanted to draft Quinn to learn from Green. If that's not true, I apologize.
I wouldn't mind picking up Green as a veteran backup.
As far as that thing about Garcia...he went back to playing WCO for Mooch in Detroit, IIRC. I still think it's more of an issue with the line.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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This is going to be fun..better than that stupid Cavs game last nite..
Going to the dentist is less painful than that! 
I'm not going to respond point by point... it's a waste of time because I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change my mind,, so there is nothing good that can come of such a discussion.
But let me say this one thing..
There are excuses and then there are facts. The line has been called an excuse but I know you know that it's a fact as well.. So, let me ask, in your opinion, was the line bad for the last couple of years, or is it just an excuse for poor performance?
Other than that, more debate is not needed! we simply disagree,, so, now, let's have a beer!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Wasn't about beating my chest chief... It was about you NOT reading my whole post and pulling an ASSumption outta your cornhole... Do me a favor, re read my first post on pg. 1 of THIS thread and then maybe that lightswitch will click on...
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Vince Young? Who cares about a running QB on another team? What would they really need to be tutored in Oh I don't know..maybe HOW TO QB a NFL OFFENSE AGAINST NFL defenses..ya think? Russell and Quinn are at the top of their game Lets see..Russell a JR....Quinn a 4 year starter in COLLEGE..they saw college teams that ran similar pro style sets..thats NOT THE SAME as playing in the NFL and never seeing those types of defenses before. Dang I thought a CAVEMAN could get it?
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If this report is correct.....it is proof Charlie is done as our starter in Cleveland.
If it's correct, I think it might just be the end of Charlie,, as sad and stupid as I find that, it could be true...
Or it could just be nothing at all... I guess in less that 30 days, we will find out!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dang I thought a CAVEMAN could get it?
Unga Bunga...
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You're crazy, man. 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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If circumstance were different I could see your point. If we had been running the same system for a few years and had a QB who knew it like the back of his hand, I could see where that would help. But as we stand,, I dont see any reason Frye or Dorsey for that matter couldnt be his coach with pads.
I would expect either QB if we drafted them to be starting day 1. Either way.. Time will tell.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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With all this talk about QB, it feels like Phil is preparing fans for a change. Notice we don't hear a thing about new LB's or TE's. I really like Frye(Like Russell better), but it doesn't look good for him in 07/08.
Last edited by DawgFace; 03/29/07 01:44 PM.
Go Browns !!!!
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I'll say to you what I say to to others and there's only a handful that view things in his manner..
I am a defensive player...I love my D..
But I have known since 99 that the Browns cannot beat anyone till they are solid in the trenches..
Our oline has been CRAP for 7 years..and CRAP is not the word I WANT to choose..
The line is starting to look better..
NOW THAT said when you look at our QB's..are they really the type that bring a lot to the table?
Look at them instead of the surrounding parts..can YOU say if they started for the Colts (SB champs) they could lead them to a SB?
Thats not a comparison to Manning BTW...I'm just trying to get you to see Frye for what he is..if Cleveland had all the weapons it needed , you think Frye has the skills to get the job done ?
I don't..and when I'm confident in a player I say it..
He does not instill that in me..I see a QB who bogs himself down..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 03/29/07 01:54 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
I wouldn't mind seeing Green in Orange & Brown. There. Just thought I'd chime in.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns interested in Trent Green
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