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I would love to keep Livingston, because he can really play either Guard spot. He's a huge PG yet has plus quickness. I was wondering what the hell we were thinking when we signed him and dropped Pargo ..... but evidently Scott knows best.  We made some great moves this year to strengthen out bench. Livingston, Ellington, Speights, and CJ Miles have all become plus level contributors from the bench. Our bench has gone from weakness to strength. I would love to be able to keep Livingston and Speights ..... but I have a feeling that we will lose at least one. Each guy seems like this seasoned "older", more mature veteran type ...... but Livingston is only 27, and Speights is only 25. I hate to lose either, but I would guess that this is not in the cards.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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A lot of the Cavs writers think Speights is going to be gone. The general feeling with the Cavs that he's going to get offered more than what they want to give him.
I would love to keep him, but I think the Cavs see him as just a rotation guy. Not starting material, and he may get that kind of money. I don't blame him for taking the big pay day, because it will probably be his biggest contract.
I love what he has given us though. Like one of the beat writers said, it's just that the market is going to be bloated this year with all kinds of teams having all kinds of money.
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Kyrie out 3-4 weeks, aka rest of the season, with a shoulder sprain. Love the kid, but he's made of glass. Ugh.
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Kyrie out 3-4 weeks, aka rest of the season, with a shoulder sprain. Love the kid, but he's made of glass. Ugh.
We can only hope that maybe he adds some weight/muscle as he gets older, so that he can absorb contact better. Still though, he has a smaller frame, which isn't good.
He's still a kid playing a grown man's game.
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Yeah, but when you're a point guard, getting knocked to the court on a dribble drive shouldn't sideline you for a month.
If he makes it back in three weeks (missing 11 games), he will have missed 40 of 140 career games to that point.
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I don't listen to Mike and Mike in the morning at all any more, but I heard this snippet that was during the break of the Really Big Show with Greenberg calling out Derek Rose for maybe kind of dogging it and not getting back immediately, because maybe he thought the Bulls weren't doing enough.
Really dude? I don't think that show ever made light of what Lebron did in in the infamous game 5 against Boston. Most of us are past it, but it just seems like they were totally cool with him being disinterested in that game, becase it was the Cavs falut they couldn't buy a bunch of FA's to make themselves better.
Seems like a double standard to me. They call out Rose because he plays for big bad Chicago, yet Lebron took no blame from the worldwide leader for everything that happened with the Cavs.
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To be fair, Greeny did cover the Bulls and Chicago for a long time. Still, their show is a joke. Haven't listened in years.
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Their whole shtick is tired. I don't get why so many companies half-assedly mail it in and have those two bozos ingenuously read a script. I shudder to think that it actually works based off their longevity.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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Their whole shtick is tired. I don't get why so many companies half-assedly mail it in and have those two bozos ingenuously read a script. I shudder to think that it actually works based off their longevity.
The act is played out. I understand it's probably not the forum for it anyway, but they never asked tough questions during interviews (I normally shut off athlete interviews anyway because they are usually horrible)
But just the constant talking about the Jets as if they're the only team that matters... That might be the worst.
I don't know if there is a show they could put on there that would have me listening. I really don't listen to any nationally syndicated shows. SVP isn't bad, but it's on at a bad time for me.
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To be fair, Greeny did cover the Bulls and Chicago for a long time. Still, their show is a joke. Haven't listened in years.
I don't mind their show sometimes but it's days like today when I want to turn it off...
Greenie and Schlereth spent about half an hour talking about Boldin, Harvin, Welker and Garrard...
Then they had Jaws on and they asked him about Boldin, Harvin, Welker, and Garrard...
Then they had Scott Pioli on and they asked him about Boldin, Harvin, Welker, and Garrard....
Then after the break they were going to come back with Parcells and get his take on Boldin, Harvin, Welker, and Garrard.... 
yebat' Putin
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I unfortunatly listen to Mike and Mike on my drive into work, as I can't really pick up any other sports radio shows for the majority of my commute ... and they are pretty insufferable. If someone were to move to this country and listen to nothing but them, they would think there were only about 10 pro sports teams and 20 players.  I can get another station on the last half of my commute, which has a syndicated show with Andy Furman and Artrell Hawkins but amazingly it's even worse than M&M. 
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No guarantee Speights will be back next year, and the way he has been playing since the deal, I guess he is going to test the FA market. And the Cavs will not fork over too much money as the Spring of 2014 approaches.... Varejao is injury prone and 30. Zeller does not play with tenacity and enough size to make an impact down low. Essentially, he plays soft. And you can't bank on Oden if he indeed comes here. As much as I agree SF is a need, I wouldn't overlook Center being targeted as well. The Cavs may be going into the draft with 4 picks and no way will they use them all. Look for a couple packaged in a trade up at some point to target who they want. This team has some real nice potential scorers in Irving and Waiters, and even Thompson recently. It would be nice to add some additional presence in the paint. This defense has been horrible in that regard. JMO.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I think you gotta give Zeller some time. I'm not saying he turns into an all star, because I don't think we drafted him for that, but I think he can be a good rotation guy, even a starter on a good team. That's probably his ceiling. I still like the draft pick though. I'm willing to be a bit more patient with him. Actually I think we were treated to early blossoming while being patient with Thompson. I thought he'd come on at this time next season.
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The center position isn't amazing, but SF is as bad as SG was last year.
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I think you gotta give Zeller some time. I'm not saying he turns into an all star, because I don't think we drafted him for that, but I think he can be a good rotation guy, even a starter on a good team. That's probably his ceiling. I still like the draft pick though. I'm willing to be a bit more patient with him. Actually I think we were treated to early blossoming while being patient with Thompson. I thought he'd come on at this time next season.
I'm certainly not writing Zeller off but now that Kyrie is out for pretty much the year, I expect this team to fall and be in a better position to possibly take someone like Noel if he goes pro.
I also think the Browns may still hold out for LBJ as the next big time SF but that could be wishful thinking.
Zeller can certainly improve but think he needs to add weight and be more aggressive on both ends of the court. However, to your point about getting a SF, Gee needs to be upgraded.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I think you gotta give Zeller some time. I'm not saying he turns into an all star, because I don't think we drafted him for that, but I think he can be a good rotation guy, even a starter on a good team. That's probably his ceiling. I still like the draft pick though. I'm willing to be a bit more patient with him. Actually I think we were treated to early blossoming while being patient with Thompson. I thought he'd come on at this time next season.
I'm certainly not writing Zeller off but now that Kyrie is out for pretty much the year, I expect this team to fall and be in a better position to possibly take someone like Noel if he goes pro.
I also think the Browns may still hold out for LBJ as the next big time SF but that could be wishful thinking.
Zeller can certainly improve but think he needs to add weight and be more aggressive on both ends of the court. However, to your point about getting a SF, Gee needs to be upgraded.
I've got no problem with them taking Noel and essentially making Zeller a bench guy. He can still be an important part of the rotation too.
I'm all for bringing LBJ back, but I think as far as putting all your eggs in that basket, outside of maybe saving the cap space for him or anyone else in 2014, they should run their team as if they aren't getting him. Draft a SF, there's nothing wrong with a solid backup or trade bait.
I'm going to cross the LBJ bridge if/when it comes. I think there's a good chance he comes back, but as a fan, I'm moving forward either way. I'm not going to be part of any campaign to bring him back either.
But yeah, I don't think you make draft moves this or next June with the assumption he's coming back. You make the best moves you can for next year, and don't worry about anything beyond that. I'm ok with setting aside cap space, because you should do that anyway. It's going to be tough to spend that money in FA anyway, and as far as absorbing bad contracts via trade, I think we've done enough of that in the last 5 years.
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I think you gotta give Zeller some time. I'm not saying he turns into an all star, because I don't think we drafted him for that, but I think he can be a good rotation guy, even a starter on a good team. That's probably his ceiling. I still like the draft pick though. I'm willing to be a bit more patient with him. Actually I think we were treated to early blossoming while being patient with Thompson. I thought he'd come on at this time next season.
I'm certainly not writing Zeller off but now that Kyrie is out for pretty much the year, I expect this team to fall and be in a better position to possibly take someone like Noel if he goes pro.
I also think the Browns may still hold out for LBJ as the next big time SF but that could be wishful thinking.
Zeller can certainly improve but think he needs to add weight and be more aggressive on both ends of the court. However, to your point about getting a SF, Gee needs to be upgraded.
I've got no problem with them taking Noel and essentially making Zeller a bench guy. He can still be an important part of the rotation too.
I'm all for bringing LBJ back, but I think as far as putting all your eggs in that basket, outside of maybe saving the cap space for him or anyone else in 2014, they should run their team as if they aren't getting him. Draft a SF, there's nothing wrong with a solid backup or trade bait.
I'm going to cross the LBJ bridge if/when it comes. I think there's a good chance he comes back, but as a fan, I'm moving forward either way. I'm not going to be part of any campaign to bring him back either.
But yeah, I don't think you make draft moves this or next June with the assumption he's coming back. You make the best moves you can for next year, and don't worry about anything beyond that. I'm ok with setting aside cap space, because you should do that anyway. It's going to be tough to spend that money in FA anyway, and as far as absorbing bad contracts via trade, I think we've done enough of that in the last 5 years.
All good points. I reread my post and saw I put "Browns" instead of Cavs but you obviously understood what I meant. What can I say? This IS a Browns' board.
Anyways, whether he starts or becomes depth, I think Zeller can be a very important part of the rotation. And even if we got someone to replace Gee as a starter, I think he also can play a valuable role. And I am not putting all my eggs in the LBJ basket but if I remember, there are some other valuable SF becoming FA in that same summer as well. So even if that never came to fruition, other options are possibly available. Maybe I'm wrong, but what I can remember, good centers are usually difficult to come by in FA.
Legit arguments can be made for either position of SF and C, but I think it's safe to say the future is looking bright for PG, SG, and PF with guys that are 1 and 2 years in the league. That is very encouraging. Kyrie needs to add a bit of weight if he's gonna continue to play the way he does. He's too fragile.
I love hearing now (after over a year of evaluating the drafted players) that Chris Grant may have ended up draft the top two players in the 2011 draft. And of top of that taking a "reach" in Waiters is really becoming one of the best picks in that draft. I trust Grant to make the right choice with all options available, whether that's SF or C.
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I love hearing now (after over a year of evaluating the drafted players) that Chris Grant may have ended up draft the top two players in the 2011 draft.
Who said that?
Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Nikola Vucevic, and Kenneth Faried are all guys I would take over Tristan Thompson.
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I love hearing now (after over a year of evaluating the drafted players) that Chris Grant may have ended up draft the top two players in the 2011 draft.
Who said that?
Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Nikola Vucevic, and Kenneth Faried are all guys I would take over Tristan Thompson.
Well, I wouldn't. Agree to disagree.
And regarding "who said that? "- national radio reports on the NBA, like ESPN. I would also say local Cleveland sports radio and journalists, but that opinion is a bit skewed.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I love hearing now (after over a year of evaluating the drafted players) that Chris Grant may have ended up draft the top two players in the 2011 draft.
Who said that?
Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Nikola Vucevic, and Kenneth Faried are all guys I would take over Tristan Thompson.
I think an argument can be made for any of them. Of those, I'd go with Vucevic first. Thompson vs. Faried will be an interesting comparison moving forward.
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Noel is way to skinny to be a center in the NBA. His offensive game sucks so he kind of has no choice.
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I expect this team to fall and be in a better position to possibly take someone like Noel if he goes pro.
I know you just threw him out there as an example but for the life of me I don't see why people are so enamored with him... He's big and athletic and he blocks shots. He can't score unless he can dunk it, he shoots 50% from the foul line, and to add to it, he's now going to be coming off a major knee injury.
On a team that has trouble scoring and really needs an offensive weapon, and in a league where the back-to-the-basket big man is becoming obsolete and everybody wants guys that can pop out and make at least a midrange jumper... Noel doesn't fit.
If I really wanted a big man, give me Plumlee, Zeller or Len over Noel...
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if only you didn't mention Plumlee.
on the rest, I agree.
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Noel is way to skinny to be a center in the NBA. His offensive game sucks so he kind of has no choice.
He's also 18yrs old and can get bigger. I guess the same argument holds true of Zeller. He could get bigger as well.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 03/12/13 03:54 PM.
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Anyone know the scenarios/ teams I need to be rooting for/against this season, as far as cavs draft positioning goes?
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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Well .... we should hope to stay in the lottery ... which is a given ...... thwn to get really lucky when the ping pong balls fly ........ and we need the Lakers to make the playoffs so that we can flip our pick from Miami for theirs. If the Lakers do not make the playoffs, then we cannot trade the Miami pick for theirs, and we will probably wind up with the last pick in the first round as a result, instead of a mid round pick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, root for the Lakers to hang on to that 8th seed. With Kobe out indefinitely that gets a lot more difficult.
After the Cavs' next game, against Dallas, we get the Spurs, Pacers and Heat. Oof.
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Yeah, root for the Lakers to hang on to that 8th seed. With Kobe out indefinitely that gets a lot more difficult.
After the Cavs' next game, against Dallas, we get the Spurs, Pacers and Heat. Oof.
That's good medicine if you have tankitis though.
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Anyone know the scenarios/ teams I need to be rooting for/against this season, as far as cavs draft positioning goes?
root for LA Lakers
root against Utah Jazz & Dallas Mavericks (two most likely to challenge for 8th)
root for Wizards, Kings, Pistons, Raptors, etc. to win some meaningless games and give us more chances at a top3 pick.
root against....naw, I can never root against the Cavs. But, I don't get upset if they happen to lose either.
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root against....naw, I can never root against the Cavs. But, I don't get upset if they happen to lose either.
I do at this point. I'm tired of losing for draft picks. Irving, Thompson and Waiters are a nice nucleus to surround with veteran support. Time to win some ball games.
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root against....naw, I can never root against the Cavs. But, I don't get upset if they happen to lose either.
I do at this point. I'm tired of losing for draft picks. Irving, Thompson and Waiters are a nice nucleus to surround with veteran support. Time to win some ball games.
well, after our horrid start we are 17-19 in the past 36 games. that's something at least.
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Yep, and that's why I'll not be happy when they lose. Obviously losses are inevitable, but losing three games for every win at this point is bordering on unacceptable, especially if they're blowout losses
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Yep, and that's why I'll not be happy when they lose. Obviously losses are inevitable, but losing three games for every win at this point is bordering on unacceptable, especially if they're blowout losses
fair enough. honestly, glad there are people that feel that way.
i'm just fully expecting to only win 1 or 2 of the next 6 and I don't really care because I know we are short-handed and I know it only really helps (Dallas, Miami, SA, Indiana, Houston, Boston).
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root for Wizards, Kings, Pistons, Raptors, etc. to win some meaningless games and give us more chances at a top3 pick.
Root for the Kings to get the ... 14th spot, I think? I can't remember how high they have to go before their pick becomes unprotected for us.
Edit: 14th spot
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better chance the Lakers end up with a higher pick than the Heat than the Kings getting up to 14th.
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Well ..... we played tonight without Varejao, Irving, and Ellington, (out with an ankle) and the result was predictable. We still had the lead going into the 4th quarter ....... but it just wasn't to be. Zeller probably had one of his better games with 10 points and 10 boards, but with our rotations completely fubarred at this point, any additional injury is going to be a problem.
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John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Heat -11.5
uhhhhhhhhhhhh
we have ND's Quinn. you just cannot underestimate that factor.
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Heat -11.5
uhhhhhhhhhhhh
No Kyrie. No Dion. No Andy. No chance.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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