Quote: So, just so we're clear, my remarks to KoB are not at all reflective my thoughts on Cribbs, but they do ask why he thinks the fans have any real say in what the Browns record is..
On the surface it seems stupid to say that the fans have any responsibility for whether we win or not... but I am of the opinion that when it comes to keeping quality players, or signing quality free agents, or keeping quality coaches, the atmosphere around the team which is, in part, created by the fans, is important.
Cleveland has not been considered a good destination for players (and this goes for all 3 major sports) for a long time and I believe that is because of this downward spiral we have created... we struggled so the fans got upset, the fans get upset so they get downright mean and nasty toward players and coaches, players and coaches don't want to come here (or stay here) so we can't get or keep the best players, this causes us to struggle more and the fans get even nastier quicker...
Do I think the fact that the fans are largely irrational, negative, and nasty is the biggest reason we lose? No, I think failing to find quality coaches and players is the single biggest reason... but do I think the negativity and meanspiritedness of the fans plays some part in that? Yes, I do.
Quote: So, just so we're clear, my remarks to KoB are not at all reflective my thoughts on Cribbs, but they do ask why he thinks the fans have any real say in what the Browns record is..
On the surface it seems stupid to say that the fans have any responsibility for whether we win or not... but I am of the opinion that when it comes to keeping quality players, or signing quality free agents, or keeping quality coaches, the atmosphere around the team which is, in part, created by the fans, is important.
Cleveland has not been considered a good destination for players (and this goes for all 3 major sports) for a long time and I believe that is because of this downward spiral we have created... we struggled so the fans got upset, the fans get upset so they get downright mean and nasty toward players and coaches, players and coaches don't want to come here (or stay here) so we can't get or keep the best players, this causes us to struggle more and the fans get even nastier quicker...
Do I think the fact that the fans are largely irrational, negative, and nasty is the biggest reason we lose? No, I think failing to find quality coaches and players is the single biggest reason... but do I think the negativity and meanspiritedness of the fans plays some part in that? Yes, I do.
this right here! EXACTLY! Thank you!, Thank you!, Thank you! You get exactly where I am coming from...the Fans set the atmosphere....the fans are a part of the equation when it comes down to it...if you set a negative atomosphere, your most likely to get negative results...set a good positive atmosphere, i bet you get a good positive result!
Quote: You see that in every NFL stadium across the league. We are certainly not the best fans, but we are far from the worst.
Are you so sure about that?
I don't see other teams fans cheering their injured players like ours has...nor saying some of the hateful things to its players like ours has....and the outright brutish and boorish behavior shown towards our players via social media.
just because you may see some of that stuff in other NFL stadiums doesn't make it right.....i see it as very dishonorable behavior.....nothing good can come from acting that way.
I am just saying there is a right and a wrong way to go about things...these players are still human beings..they are people, and they don't deserve to be treated and spoken to the way they have been... i don't care how much money they make...they don't deserve to be mentally and emotionally abused by the fans who want to act mean just because they don't win.
All in all..its a game...a sport...these players deserve better...to be treated with respect and dignity...and the fans deserve better too...to be known across the NFL as being gracious, humble, and honorable....by treating its players with kindness and appreciation....not cold-hardheartedness and anger all the time....
Quote: I don't see other teams fans cheering their injured players like ours has...nor saying some of the hateful things to its players like ours has....and the outright brutish and boorish behavior shown towards our players via social media.
I think it's pretty obvious that Cribbs is gone. Sad day, but all is not lost.
We can still sign Edelman to take his place and he's an Ohio kid too. NE can sign Cribbs and we can continue these fun threads for the next few seasons comparing them
Jets fans cheered when Pennington got hurt, I remember some Steeler fans cheering once when one of their QB's got hurt (late 80's early 90's ish)...I'm sure there are more
Quote: Jets fans cheered when Pennington got hurt, I remember some Steeler fans cheering once when one of their QB's got hurt (late 80's early 90's ish)...
Several of my steeler fan friends loved it when Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, and Kordell Stewart would get hurt. I know for a fact that a few who are season ticket holders bragged about cheering when they'd go down.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do. -Derek Jeter
My issue with Cribbs has never been his on field work ethic. He's added tremendous excitement to games and is one of the best there's ever been at returns and kick coverages. I think he's at times been underutilized on offense, but I've still never seen him as more than a part time offensive player.
All that being said, I have no problem voicing his concerns to his coaches about playing time and how he's used. My problem is how he always seems to do it in the media - seemingly as a sympathy ploy or to stir things up. That's not professional. And then he wonders why fans get on his case. Follow that with the f-off comments, and I don't think it's a stretch to see why some fans have turned on him. Are you team first or self first? If it's team, then you don't cry to the media to get fan support - not from a fan base that has loved you from day one. Sorry, but Josh made his PR bed, and now he can lie in it.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do. -Derek Jeter
Quote: Nevermind...my post went completely over many's heads...
If folks can't see how the behavior of a very large sect of our fans has effected this organization and players in a negative manner, then I am wasting my time trying to help you see it.
The fanbase has the ability to effect the hearts and minds of the players....these guys are not just out there playing for paycheck, they are playing for YOU, for this city, for these colors.....when you treat your own like used garbage...it creeps into the backs of the minds of others....confidence breeds confidence...despair breeds despair....if you can't see it...your blind...and im no eye doctor. It is what it is...
I am happy with the guys we have signed so far. I just hope for once the fans could stay positive and really watch something special being cultivated here.
Sorry pal,, you are so off the wall with this.
Support for the Browns is unwavering by the fan base. Is there issues with players from time to time,, sure, no team is immune to that.
But to blame it on the fans,.,, That's looney
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: these guys are not just out there playing for paycheck, they are playing for YOU, for this city, for these colors.....when you treat your own like used garbage
Quote: Earlier Wednesday, multiple reports surfaced that the Cardinals and Browns free agent returner / wide receiver Josh Cribbs had just about agreed to a deal.
However, PFT has learned that no deal between the Cardinals and Cribbs is imminent.
In fact, as its stands now, a deal isn’t close to being done.
Cribbs, it should be noted, did post on his verified Twitter account a photo collage with the caption: “It’s been a blessing to be in Cleveland, wishing the best to the city & the Team. If I could stay I would…”
I kinda wondered, every time (and I looked a lot) I didn't see anything but 'close to a deal' kinds of things being said, and while we're at it, no one is saying anything about Phil either.
I could understand letting Josh go, but to let a guy go who can make kicks in bad weather in our stadium is just plain foolish.
Last edited by MrTed; 03/13/1311:24 PM.
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM my two cents...
The biggest reasons for Dawson to stay are if he sees the team on the upswing, and if he wants to become the all time franchise leader in place kicking ..... replacing a legend like Lou Groza in the Browns record books. I would think that there is some value in that regard.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I am a little excited to have a less clutch kicker. I don't think Turner and Chud need the extra confidence, but it seems to me if we had a shank expert over the years we would have tried harder to get in the end zone.
My stupid thought of the day.
I expect Phil to end up in Houston or Dallas to be near his family.
Watching the NFL Network ticker I was wondering what would occur if no one offers Josh a contract? I don't think that will happen and if it does I hope he goes to a team that will allow him a Superbowl ring.
The Constitution shall never be construe to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. – Samuel Adams
One constant I see is players even on our divisional rivals remark about the Fans here being great n loyal. What other team sells out with nothing to talk about since 1994?
All remark about the FANS as a Positive n its not just blowing smoke. Getting our Browns back...even the Bottle incident (a negative ) but some players got to be thinking - Now that is passion for a team! lol
Why we suck...can't remotely be via the fans. I wish they would get into it more at home games...but they do when we give them something to get into. Its been tough.
Why we suck...has to do with two Lack of continuity n some poor Personnel decision/plans/direction. Maybe Timing n luck is there too. Kokinos burning out from the get go...derailing Mangini. Randy Selling the team...Derailing well I liked Heckert's plan not Holmgren/Shurmurs (don't get me wrong...Heckert was with them...but was hoping both of them gone leaving just Heckert).
Never in the right place at the right time to get a Franchise QB in the draft. Only QB we passed on after 2000 (committed to Couch) was in 04 Big Ben...the rest we just had our bad years at the wrong time...or just not bad enough.
But we are losers...# 1 because of our Drafting history! No Young foundation to build a team on. 99-09 missing badly - Joe T, Rubin, DQ n Mack...just not enough quantity of Good.
Fans...is a positive around the league....as in MY GOODNESS these fans are crazy about the Browns!!! We actually have a good rep...maybe you have to live away from the area n see how other Football fans view the Browns Fans...we get top tier Respect.
Cribbs: Doesn't look good, even if Zona deal might have hit a snag. I think we made up our minds on him I wish they could have seen him on the team before cutting ties. Then again Tabor should have fought for him n didn't??? I do agree Return is changed. Although pretty consistently over the 20 the 107 returns as opposed to 95 returns set up a different timing on the return Lanes. I see it more of top Speed needed to return one back. Almost always on the outside. No more running lane in the middle somewhere n where Cribbs made his living...cause of depth of kicks...that lane gets opened but closed by the time Cribbs gets there. Cribbs never had that top speed to out run all to the outside! I still like him for a slot WR - YAC in space hurting DBs if you wish a tough all out persona for the team...good guy to have around. Savage, Mangini, Heckert survived the purge even though he was the kind of player teams change as they bring their guys in.
Good luck n good health where ever you end up. I am pretty sure we are not interested that much in him. Thanks for your effort n sacrifice to us fans giving it everything you had!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Quote: I'll miss him even if the team get's a good replacement.
Same with Josh. Watching kick returns was as exciting as watching a big hitter come to bat.
I say this with all sincerity but there have been many times when I thought Cribbs returning a punt was one of our higher percentage plays for scoring... and that if he didn't return the punt into scoring territory, the punter might as well start warming up.. I had that little confidence in our offense... so yea, they were very exciting plays.
At least we won't have to hear about "I'm not being used!!!" anymore. Nor will we have to read "Josh Cribbs needs to be QB/RB/TE/DT/Owner" type threads full of hyperbole.
I loved Josh Cribbs, it felt like there for a few years if he didn't score on a KR, the offense wasn't going to score. I also very distinctly remember a game against the Steelers where the Browns kept running the Wildcat with him as the QB. 40K + the 11 on the field knew Josh was going to run the ball but he still got 1st downs.
He was outspoken but never was a detriment to the team or the community. Unfortunately age caught up with Josh as it does with us all. In addition to him losing a step the KR rules hurt him as well. I wish he would have went and played for the pats so he could have made the playoffs and maybe win a superbowl. Unfortunately the Cards aren't much better off than the Browns.
Josh Cribbs I wish you nothing but the best both during the remainder of your football career and after.
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if you wish a tough all out persona for the team...good guy to have around. Savage, Mangini, Heckert survived the purge even though he was the kind of player teams change as they bring their guys in. 
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