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I have a feeling if Frye plays like Aikman did in year 3 this year there would still be people saying the Browns can never win with Frye.
If Frye had Emmit Smith, M Irvin, Harper, Johnston, and a great D maybe he'd be similar at best, but at the end of the day Frye has a weak arm and doesn't play in a dome.
Comparing the two is like comparing apples and "apples with weak arms". 
Technically Aikman didn't play in a dome either.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Technically Aikman didn't play in a dome either.
Would you be happier with psuedo-dome?  My point was that QB-ing in Cleveland presents enviornmental challenges that aren't an issue in a 2/3 dome in Dallas.
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Technically Aikman didn't play in a dome either.
Would you be happier with psuedo-dome?
Yes.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Just clicking Mensa, US Navy and Gift, you are all about to hate me,,,, (well maybe not so much Mensa) Mensa, the stats are interesting to be sure, but stats never tell the whole story,, From a pure talent standpoint, Aikman had all the tools but the team around him just basically sucked until his third year,,, so the real stat to compare will be after this year.. The Cowboys really started to get guys that could play and they all started playing together in what was Aikmans 3rd year... If that happens here and Charlie is allowed to start,, then look at the stats.. if they are compariable at that point,,, then we have ourselves a QB.. But more important than that, we have ourselves a TEAM.. OH, but I think you are correct about Charlie.. No matter how he plays next season, some on here will still hate him and come up with reason after reason why he sucks... USNAVY: Quote:
Aikman IMO was highly overrated.
Man, what are you talking about... Aikman was terrific... But I guess if his numbers compare to Charlies in any way,,, he must have been overrated.
And then we have Gift Horse:
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If Frye had Emmit Smith, M Irvin, Harper, Johnston, and a great D maybe he'd be similar at best, but at the end of the day Frye has a weak arm and doesn't play in a dome.
My goodness man,,, YOU SAY, if Frye had all that, and that made him similar to Aikman,,, are you saying you would still not want him as our QB? What the heck are you saying.. You wouldn't want a 3 time superbowl winner as your QB?
Weak arm and Dome or not, if Charlies stats after year three are on par with Aikman,,, then we have us a QB..That is the end of that story.
I'd take Aikman or his statistical clone any day of the week!
There is a poll running on NFL.com I think,, there is also a thread running about the results on here in this forum..
The question is, who should be the Browns QB in 2007
41% Say Trent Green
36% Say Brady Quinn
14% Say Charlie Frye
5% Say Other
4% Say Derek Anderson..
Green is coming off a tough year with the Concussion, Brady hasn't played a down in the NFL,,,, and just to prove how informed some fans are, they don't even look at that,,, they just pick a name. (pretty much the same thing some do with Political candidates I bet)
My comment is this, NO YOUNG QB has a chance in hell of being supported by some of the fans around here unless he's perfect coming right out of the gates..
And virtually NOBODY is perfect right out of the gates... In fact, there are NO PERFECT QB's anywhere.. the have all thrown flutter balls and INT's,, they have read the D incorrectly at one time or the other,,, in other words,,, IMPERFECTION RULES....
It's almost sickening the way some fans trash guys simply because they decided they don't like them or they aren't the flavor of the month...
As soon as someone else comes up that smells decent,,,, the cry goes out,,, man we gotta get that guy,,
For cryin out loud, put a freakin team around either one of our two young guys,, then let's talk about if they got what it takes or not.
Does anyone on the planet really believe that Big Ben R would have been as effective on any other team as he was with a very well established team like the Steelers? I don't! I bet if you ask many steeler fans, they would say the same thing.... But does that count for anything over here,,, NOPE,, It does not..
Ok,,I'm done,, Flame me if you must,,,, I can take it!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Comparing Frye to Aikman?!?!  
They have two things in common:
1) They both play QB
2) They both are in the NFL
I'm not going to go on a tangent which would tear Frye apart, suffice it to say the skillsets are not comparable.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Naw, I don't hate you.
I just realize your wrong. People make mistakes, no need for hate.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Quote:
Comparing Frye to Aikman?!?!
They have two things in common:
1) They both play QB
2) They both are in the NFL
I'm not going to go on a tangent which would tear Frye apart, suffice it to say the skillsets are not comparable.
3) Both white...
that's about it
<><
#gmstrong
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Jaybird - I would have phrased it ... And neither one is Chinese (ala Johnny Dangerously)
Aikman had a much stronger arm and incredible accuracy with his throws. Over his career he demonstrated that he could read defenses and was an incredible leader (which Charlie has not yet had the opportunity to demonstrate).
With Aikman you cannot look at just the stats. Had he played for Walsh's 49er's he would have put up amazing #s. But the offense Dallas ran was primarily a run offense limiting Aikman's passing stats. Just because he doesn't have those sparkling 3s doesn't take anything away from his abilities and talent.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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A Charlie Frye and Troy Aikman would be like trying to compare Paul Byrd to Greg Maddux........I didn't even like Aikman because I can't stand the Cowboys but please don't disrespect the man by comparing him in anyway to Chuck. Troy Aikman won 3 world championships Charlie Frye didn't even win the MAC. Please gentlemen......
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What's wrong with you guys,,,, Mensa was NOT comparing Frye to Aikman,,, He was merely comparing the stats..
Tell me what's wrong with that?
Do you guys hate Frye so much that a person can't even compare his stats to someone without some comment?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Comparing Frye to Aikman?!?!
They have two things in common:
1) They both play QB
2) They both are in the NFL
I'm not going to go on a tangent which would tear Frye apart, suffice it to say the skillsets are not comparable.
I thought they also had statistics after their first 2 years in common. But I've been told you are the know-it-all on here so I guess you are right and I'm wrong. Sorry for even comparing two very similar 2nd year QB's in the NFL.
But most of you are right on here. We should dump Frye now because he's not a stud after 2 years so that means he'll never be any good. We should trade him now like Tampa Bay smartly got rid of Steve Young after 2 years. It is so easy to tell if a QB has it, Tampa Bay knew Young didn't have it, so they smartly got rid of him.
Steve Young's 2nd year in the NFL
363 - Pass Attempts
195 - Completions
53.7% - Completion %
2282 - Passing Yards
8 - TD Passes
13 - Interceptions
47 - Times Sacked
326 - Yards lost from being sacked
74 - Rushing Attempts
425 - Rushing Yards
5 - Rushing TD's
11 - Fumbles
Tampa Bay got rid of Steve Young after that season and drafted a QB with the #1 pick. That was a mighty smart move by TB. Hopefully the Browns listen to you guys who have the great ability of judging QB talents after 2 years and get rid of Frye and bring in another QB.
After 2 years of playing QB in the NFL
Passing TD's
20 - Troy Aikman
14 - Charlie Frye
11 - Steve Young
Rushing TD's
1 - Troy Aikman
4 - Charlie Frye
6 - Steve Young
Interceptions
36 - Troy Aikman
23 - Charlie Frye
21 - Steve Young
Fumbles
11 - Troy Aikman
15 - Charlie Frye
15 - Steve Young
Completion %
55.1% - Troy Aikman
62.9% - Charlie Frye
53.3% - Steve Young
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Interesting stats. I'm still a believer in Frye, but a lot of folks on the board won't be swayed by statistics.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
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Comparing Frye to Aikman?!?!
They have two things in common:
1) They both play QB
2) They both are in the NFL
I'm not going to go on a tangent which would tear Frye apart, suffice it to say the skillsets are not comparable.
I thought they also had statistics after their first 2 years in common. But I've been told you are the know-it-all on here so I guess you are right and I'm wrong. Sorry for even comparing two very similar 2nd year QB's in the NFL.
But most of you are right on here. We should dump Frye now because he's not a stud after 2 years so that means he'll never be any good. We should trade him now like Tampa Bay smartly got rid of Steve Young after 2 years. It is so easy to tell if a QB has it, Tampa Bay knew Young didn't have it, so they smartly got rid of him.
Steve Young's 2nd year in the NFL
363 - Pass Attempts
195 - Completions
53.7% - Completion %
2282 - Passing Yards
8 - TD Passes
13 - Interceptions
47 - Times Sacked
326 - Yards lost from being sacked
74 - Rushing Attempts
425 - Rushing Yards
5 - Rushing TD's
11 - Fumbles
Tampa Bay got rid of Steve Young after that season and drafted a QB with the #1 pick. That was a mighty smart move by TB. Hopefully the Browns listen to you guys who have the great ability of judging QB talents after 2 years and get rid of Frye and bring in another QB.
After 2 years of playing QB in the NFL
Passing TD's
20 - Troy Aikman
14 - Charlie Frye
11 - Steve Young
Rushing TD's
1 - Troy Aikman
4 - Charlie Frye
6 - Steve Young
Interceptions
36 - Troy Aikman
23 - Charlie Frye
21 - Steve Young
Fumbles
11 - Troy Aikman
15 - Charlie Frye
15 - Steve Young
Completion %
55.1% - Troy Aikman
62.9% - Charlie Frye
53.3% - Steve Young
All of that is meaningless.
None of that, no matter how you look at is says Frye will take this team to the SuperBowl. All you are showing is that most QB's weather they turn out to be the real deal or not have similiar stats in their 1st couple seasons. I bet you could look at T. Couch(browns), A. Smith(bengals), J. Harrington(lions), or any other bust you like and find similiar stats. I would, but I am not inclined to waste my time looking at meaningless stats.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Ok fine compare stats all you want.
And no I don't hate Frye that much....I like him as a person, I like his toughness and work ethic, his mobility, I like him as a backup.
I don't like his arm strength, his touch, his record, his ability to read a defense, our ability to score in the redzone with him behind center, the way he talks, the fumbles, and on and on.
While the numbers with him may compare to Steve Young and Troy Aikman.....At least with Aikman you could see the impressive physical tools that the guy possessed, and with Young you could at least tell that the guy was highly intelligent, carried himself well, and could read a defense. Charlie's mind is nowhere near Steve Young's and Troy Aikman's physical skills are far superior than Chuck's.
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Two words,,
Ryan Leaf,,
He had all the physical tool that Aikman had.,......and nothing else!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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First off, why so harsh on Toad??  Now, by your stats, I can understand why you want to make a point on how we shouldn't give up on Frye JUST yet, but stats schmats ya know? It just matters how you lead the team, get respect in the huddle, build relationships and confidence with your teamates, and then comes the stats, thus, how Aikman, Young, Favre, Brady, Manning,Montana, Kosar...became so good, and recognized years later for what they've done... just my 2 cents 
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I'm confused Brownie,, are you saying that Frye doesn't get the respect of his teammates, or command the huddle?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm confused Brownie,, are you saying that Frye doesn't get the respect of his teammates, or command the huddle?
not like a pro bowl QB would..no
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And you know this how?
I suppose its specualtion, just an observation. Just as is your opinion that he has respect of his teammates, or command the huddle. Otherwise, you know that how?
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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I'm confused Brownie,, are you saying that Frye doesn't get the respect of his teammates, or command the huddle?
not like a pro bowl QB would..no
That was my thought when I wrote it....Frye has SOME respect in the huddle and confidence but not like a Pro Bowl QB would......
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Pretty much a divided issue here. What I would like to know, is prime examples of Charlie Frye's progression from year 1 to 2. Where did Charlie exactly improve on from 2005 to 2006?
You can post stats and compare Frye to Aikman to Young and whoever else.
But what do your own eyes tell you about Charlie?
Its funny,this reminds me of Tim Couch when posters were real quick to compare Tim to other All-Pro qbs,which meant very little.
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Frye and Anderson will be duking it out at training camp...
Savage is just starting something for no reason, just to get things heated up before the draft...
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I'm confused Brownie,, are you saying that Frye doesn't get the respect of his teammates, or command the huddle?
not like a pro bowl QB would..no
That was my thought when I wrote it....Frye has SOME respect in the huddle and confidence but not like a Pro Bowl QB would......
Actually.. I heard several players talk about Charlie on the field and IN the huddle, They said he turns into a mad general spitting out four letter words. It caught many of them by surprise. They said HE's the ONLY one talking in there. Not sure it matters.. I yell all the time and no one seems to care.. He deserves the respect of everyone on this team for the effort and punishment he's taken. Give me 10 more like him on the field and you have a TEAM.
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not like a pro bowl QB would..no
a pro bowl QB? u mean that status you get b/c of the fan's internet votes? u mean the respect a guy like Tony Romo gets?
i don't get it?? Frye could be a Pro Bowler next year.. if he is.. does that automatically mean that he gets respect in the huddle? just curious.
The guys busts his butt on that field. Normally guys that bust their butt, but still don't get things to go their way are not respected. Why? cuz things aren't all fresh and full of daisies. Every individual on that field needs to step it up and play their hardest. We need more guys like Frye, more guys like Winslow, who are very passionate for their love of this game. Until that happens, this team will continue to be a lower tier organization. Its like some of them are okay with having a below .500 record season after season. No, they may not like to lose, but they are contempt with it.
I really don't think that this team is that far from being a MAJOR competitor in this league. I'd say that over the past 2 seasons, atleast 65% of the puzzle has been put together. a few more pieces.. a few more..
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
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a pro bowl QB? u mean that status you get b/c of the fan's internet votes?
Don't know what league's probowl YOU watch. The NFL that I watch, the fan's internet voting is just a small part of the equation.
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u mean the respect a guy like Tony Romo gets?
Yes someone with the potential, caliber and leadership to be a probowler...yes.
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i don't get it?? Frye could be a Pro Bowler next year..
yes, and I could win powerball and megamillions the same week.
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if he is.. does that automatically mean that he gets respect in the huddle? just curious.
Nope, the fact that he doesn't already, shows he will not be a probowler. You want to go to a probowl? Act and perform like a probowler.
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The guys busts his butt on that field. Normally guys that bust their butt, but still don't get things to go their way are not respected. Why?
Not argueing that he busts his butt...he does... but to answer your question of "Why?" well thats easy, winners are respected, losers are not.
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Every individual on that field needs to step it up and play their hardest.
Yes they do.
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We need more guys like Frye, more guys like Winslow, who are very passionate for their love of this game.
As far as work ethic sure. As far as results, Winslow sure, Frye? Not even close.
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I really don't think that this team is that far from being a MAJOR competitor in this league. I'd say that over the past 2 seasons, atleast 65% of the puzzle has been put together. a few more pieces.. a few more..
Alot more.. We need a real QB, need to continue improving the trenches both on O and D, we need to improve the secondary, and we still need a long term solution at RB.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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u mean the respect a guy like Tony Romo gets?
Yes someone with the potential, caliber and leadership to be a probowler...yes.
Yeah, that was pretty much a joke. The guy didn't play all year and made the Pro Bowl. He was solid, but a Pro Bowler? Shouldn't have happened.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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u mean the respect a guy like Tony Romo gets?
Yes someone with the potential, caliber and leadership to be a probowler...yes.
Yeah, that was pretty much a joke. The guy didn't play all year and made the Pro Bowl. He was solid, but a Pro Bowler? Shouldn't have happened.
As compaired to AFC QB's that may be true. But when you are talking of NFL, name who should have been there instead. Here are the 3 NFC Probowl QB's:
Drew Brees, NO
Marc Bulger, STL
Tony Romo, DAL
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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get real dude.. lol.. Romo is one of the most overrated QB's the league has seen in years... If he played for any other team besides the Cowboys, he would be a NOBODY!! He can't even hold a ball for a field goal.. He can't handle pressure any better than Frye.. Something is wrong if you think think Romo deserved that Pro Bowl spot.. I mean ur entitled to ur own opinion, but geeezzzz  its football... u can become better... it happens in all sports.. yea the chance is slim (just as u winning the lottery), but i mean it happens... Tom Brady, Gilbert Arenas.. they weren't projected to go great things in their sport, but look at them.. Bottom line, everyone has their own learning curve, and sometimes it takes a little longer to do some great things... I think some of u forget though, u don't need a HOF QB, or a Pro Bowl QB... you just need a QB that can win you some games.. and IMO.. Frye can do that.. with the right help that is..
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Something is wrong if you think think Romo deserved that Pro Bowl spot.
Then who should have been there in his place I ask again?
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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As compaired to AFC QB's that may be true. But when you are talking of NFL, name who should have been there instead. Here are the 3 NFL Probowl QB's:
Drew Brees, NO
Marc Bulger, STL
Tony Romo, DAL
1) Drew Brees
2) Marc Bulger
and 3.. i would have picked a Brett Favre, John Kitna, Eli Manning, Jake Delhomme over this Romo kid... lol
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As compaired to AFC QB's that may be true. But when you are talking of NFL, name who should have been there instead. Here are the 3 NFL Probowl QB's:
Drew Brees, NO
Marc Bulger, STL
Tony Romo, DAL
1) Drew Brees
2) Marc Bulger
and 3.. i would have picked a Brett Favre, John Kitna, Eli Manning, Jake Delhomme over this Romo kid... lol
Favre ,
Kitna, nope, Manning, nope, Delhomme, nope...
Favre
Did you say Favre? Sure he had a better season than the year before...but a pro bowl year?
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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If Frye had Emmit Smith, M Irvin, Harper, Johnston, and a great D maybe he'd be similar at best, but at the end of the day Frye has a weak arm and doesn't play in a dome.
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My goodness man,,, YOU SAY, if Frye had all that, and that made him similar to Aikman,,, are you saying you would still not want him as our QB? What the heck are you saying.. You wouldn't want a 3 time superbowl winner as your QB?
No, what I'm saying is that if we go back in time and replace Aikmen with Frye the Dallas dynasty wouldn't have existed and all those Dallas offensive studs wouldn't have been the studs we know them as today.
Irvin and Harper never could have become the monster WR tandem that stretched the feild and blew open games because Frye just doesn't have the ability to throw the long ball or even the intermediate "frozen rope" passes.
Without the WR threat the defense could have stacked the box and Emmit Smith wouldn't have gotten all the yards we know him for.
Charlie is a great guy and I wish him the best, I don't have an ill thought of him in any way. But it's like entering my F-150 in the Indy 500. Sure we can get more HP out of the engine, we can change the suspension, and we can get the best driver around..... But in the end it just won't have the tools to compete, just like Charlie and his mediocre-to-poor arm.
Feel free to post the long list of weak armed QB's that have become dominant in the last ten years, I can't seem to think of many, but maybe your list will convince me.
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Legend
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Legend
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Romo deserved pro bowl though?
the end of the season he couldnt get his team to win games... last 5 games, 1-4.
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Quote:
Romo deserved pro bowl though?
the end of the season he couldnt get his team to win games... last 5 games, 1-4.
Yes, he was the best of the remaining QB's. Thats how the pro bowl selections are made. #1 QB is the best in the conference, the #2 is the 2nd best and so on and so on.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Besides, I don't even like Romo, but I would trade Frye for him any day of the week.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Quote:
Besides, I don't even like Romo, but I would trade Frye for him any day of the week.
and he would take the Browns to the Playoffs?
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Quote:
Quote:
Besides, I don't even like Romo, but I would trade Frye for him any day of the week.
and he would take the Browns to the Playoffs?
Before Frye would? I'd have to say so.
And Frye is taking us to the playoffs?
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Hall of Famer
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I am pretty sure that Pennington and Brees are soft tossers that made the ProBowl.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Besides, I don't even like Romo, but I would trade Frye for him any day of the week.
and he would take the Browns to the Playoffs?
Before Frye would? I'd have to say so.
And Frye is taking us to the playoffs?
i mean this season.. if we had Romo.. He would take the Browns to the playoffs?
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